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New Epson 3D projectors! 3010, 5010, 6010 - Page 70

post #2071 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

As far as the PS3 slim we have installed it many times with Epson projectors as well as others and it hasn't given us a problem. It could be your particular unit. It doesn't take much variance with HDMI to make something not work correctly.

Are you testifying to installing a SLIM PS3 with an Epson 5010
and having NO PROBLEMS with that EXACT Configuration?

Or are you just making a blanket statement.
post #2072 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

We have had many classes on HDMI and not all cables are the same, not in the real world or on the bench. I don't recommend high priced cables but cables that have proven to test well. I suggest DPL labs as cables that have passed their testing are at least 20% better than HDMI spec. Don't assume a cable is good because it works with one device and not another.

As far as the PS3 slim we have installed it many times with Epson projectors as well as others and it hasn't given us a problem. It could be your particular unit. It doesn't take much variance with HDMI to make something not work correctly.

Does the slim work if plugged directly into the Epson with a short cable? If it does, does it not work through the receiver with short cables? Does it work at lower resolutions? Sorry, but 10' is too long for testing. 3' would be preferred but 6' should be OK.

With the advent of HDMI new testing procedures need to be used. Analog logic doesn't work with digital signaling for diagnosing problems. Without test equipment I am trying to give you the best chance of isolating your problem.


Well I dont know about all hdmi cords because im by far a professional. But I did try a 6ft long hdmi cord along with a 10ft and 20ft and had all the same issues with my ps3 slim and not a single issue with my ps3 fat. My ps3 slim and fat is both connected straight to my 5010.

My ps3 slim worked just fine with the same cable cords connected to my Epson HC720 and 8350 and 2d works perfect with the 5010. Its only in 3d.

It's not just my ps3 slim because alot of other people are having the same issues on this thread and the other 5010/6010 thread. But noone has mentioned any issues with their ps3 fat. Also its not just the 5010 but the 3010 that people are having issues also.
post #2073 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

Are you testifying to installing a SLIM PS3 with an Epson 5010
and having NO PROBLEMS with that EXACT Configuration?

Or are you just making a blanket statement.

Thanks. I was wondering the same thing.
post #2074 of 2311
has anyone tested side by side 3010 and 5010/6010 for 3D performance. If yes, then kindly post your honest comments.
post #2075 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by programmergeek View Post

FAN NOISE! I have to comment here I had 2 people come in to the demo room here in NJ and both read this thread and was hesitant to buy it because of the noise, both people bought one. Anyone near NJ is welcome to stop in and listen. I have it in stock and mounted in the demo room. To put it in prospective I had a Panasonic 4000 and 7000 it is pretty much the same maybe a hair louder if anything, those projector are putting out 1600/2000 lumens full blast. Now the kicker is the 6010 on econo is one of the quietest projectors I know and I would guess is around 2000 lumens. Basically it is not a loud projector on full blast there are many that are much louder out there. But I do encourage a listen if you will, no one had not bought one because of noise, at least in my shop. I will try to post something on you tube.


Wha is h major diff bwn h 5010 and 6010. iss h 6010 worh h exra money
post #2076 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by programmergeek View Post

FAN NOISE! I have to comment here I had 2 people come in to the demo room here in NJ and both read this thread and was hesitant to buy it because of the noise, both people bought one. Anyone near NJ is welcome to stop in and listen. I have it in stock and mounted in the demo room. To put it in prospective I had a Panasonic 4000 and 7000 it is pretty much the same maybe a hair louder if anything, those projector are putting out 1600/2000 lumens full blast. Now the kicker is the 6010 on econo is one of the quietest projectors I know and I would guess is around 2000 lumens. Basically it is not a loud projector on full blast there are many that are much louder out there. But I do encourage a listen if you will, no one had not bought one because of noise, at least in my shop. I will try to post something on you tube.


Wha is the major diff between the 5010 and 6010. is the 6010 worh h exra money
post #2077 of 2311
Just did a slim with a 6010 last week and 3D was fine. Try replacing the slim if you think it is the problem. We replaced a slim with a problem a few months ago but it wasn't with an Epson, it was on a flat panel.

I'm not saying it is the cable or the slim. I was giving you a way of diagnosing the problem. HDMI problems are everywhere and there are some really poorly made cables that we have found to be the problem many times. There has also been some poorly made equipment too but that has improved over the years where we see less of it, cables haven't.

Quality cables have always made a difference but there is a big difference between analog and digital. If I took 3 cheap RCA cables like the ones included with a DVD player for composite and ran them 50 feet using the component connection at 1080P. You know what I'd still get a picture and it would look decent. If I put up a resolution pattern I would notice I lost about 100 lines of resolution but in real world material the average person wouldn't notice the difference between 980P and 1080P. The point is you still get a picture. Also, good coax can go much longer distances.

Now with digital once your signal degrades so much that's it, the picture is unwatchable if you get one at all. HDMI wasn't designed for long runs and a poorly made cable will have problems with short runs. The way the connectors are soldered can change capacitance, if the wires are not twisted properly inside the cable it is easy to get one wire too long so the signal doesn't arrive at the same time as the other wires. These issues get exacerbated the longer the cable.

Bad solder on a circuit board to the HDMI connectors can change capacitance. Trying to run too many things off of the same voltage as the HDMI chips can be a problem. HDMI chips really need well regulated voltage to work well, if it fluctuates because of a video processor or audio decoder circuit running off the same voltage line you will have a problem. Many of the early designs had boards robbing power from HDMI circuits to feed other circuits because it was convenient on the circuit board. This is one area that has been improved in general.

Now within HDMI spec their is an operating range. For instance an easy example is voltage. It is 5V but equipment has to be designed to work with 4.7 volts. So if one device sends 5V and another 4.7V they are both within spec. However, add in signal degradation from the cable and one might work and the other not. But if the cable is to spec it should work, many are not. Not every cable gets tested with eye patterns and such at the factory. If they pass a continuity test they are out the door. Good testing takes time and costs more.

For installers in this industry HDMI is probably one of the biggest headaches that has ever existed. Good test equipment is ridiculously expensive, well into six figures! There is less expensive test equipment which is thousands but has limited test capability for all the areas of HDMI so not many will even have this. Not to mention HDMI is a moving target for specs so it might be outdated quickly.

For everyone else there is trial end error but you can't use analog logic. If it work with one device and not another doesn't apply to HDMI. This is one of the reasons to test with short cables to remove some variables. If possible use short cables that have passed DPL testing. I don't expect consumers to do that.

If it works with short cables your problem is the cable, period. Do whatever you need to do to fix it (i.e. restorer, better cables, balun, etc.) If it doesn't work with short cables it could still be a poor cable but less likely and probably better to trade out equipment and do more testing.

I used to work with this stuff many years ago at IBM back when it was 8b/10b, predecessor to DVI for those who aren't familiar. It hasn't changed, the speeds have gotten faster and the tolerances tighter. Wait until 4k2k or 1080P/120 becomes available and we start pushing the limits of HDMI bandwidth. HDMI problems will continue, hopefully the chipsets will continue to improve to compensate.
post #2078 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Just did a slim with a 6010 last week and 3D was fine.

Thanks for that update.
post #2079 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedg8gt View Post

I dont know. But almost all the users of the slim ps3 has had this issue and not just with the 5010 but the 3010 also. When using the fat ps3 though noone has mentioned the issue.

Short term resolutions as what other people are saying they switched hdmi1/2 on the remote and/or on the back and it worked for a while but did it again. Some are saying turn off "Super White" and it helped. Then others are saying using newer short 3d hdmi cords.

I cant speak for everyone but none of the above worked for me. My ps3 is only 6 1/2ft from my 5010 and im using a 10ft hdmi cord. I bought a new hdmi cord and even used ones I bought four years ago and ones I got from the cable company. They all worked with my fat ps3 but still had issues with the slim. Which to me proves an hdmi cord is all the same. Ive turned off "Super White" and switched components on the remote and back. But none were a permanent fix and only a temporary.

The only permanent fix I found was using a fat ps3 and no matter what settings I changed on the ps3 or 5010 it never got out of sync and never not played correctly.

Have you asked/checked the PS3 forum/thread to see if anyone has encountered any issues with the slim PS3 and 3D HDTV or other 3D projectors?
post #2080 of 2311
We have all three in our showroom and the 5010 and 6010 definitely perform better in terms of image brightness during 3D use. This is mostly due to the fact that the 5010 and the 6010 use Epson's Bright 3D Drive tech. Basically it uses the extra lumens to up the brightness of the picture to make up for the darker image 3D produces. Best bang for your buck out of the three is probably the 3010. But one big advantage I think that the 5010 and 6010 have over the 3010 line is the lens shift.
post #2081 of 2311
I purchased the 3010 yesterday to replace my 6500ub as it had a blue hue at the bottom of the image, and a yellow hue across the top, and I wanted 3d.

Unfortunately, it was not quite what I was expecting, and I returned it and purchased the 5010, which I should have delivered tomorrow. The 3010 had a great 3d image, but it could not hang with the 6500 with a 2d image, the blacks were not what I was expecting.

I cant wait to try the 5010 tomorrow, just in time for Transformers 3.
post #2082 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by jae3cpamd View Post

Wha is the major diff between the 5010 and 6010. is the 6010 worh h exra money

Well 6010 has:

1) 2 sets of 3D Glasses - $200
2) Chief Ceiling Mount - $200 (if you need it)
3) Extra Bulb - $250 or so
4) 3 year warranty - so 1 extra year - $150 or so depending
5) It is Black - priceless
6) ISF Certification Calibration Mode - worth $0 or a lot of you need it.
post #2083 of 2311
dont't forget, the 6010 supports the vertical stretch. If you have a lense, it could save you the need for a video processor. This is the key issue with me. I have a TW700 and am looking to upgrade. If you want 3d, now you need to upgrde your videoprocessor. Anyway, that i my understanding.
post #2084 of 2311
ok, 104 hours on the 9000, and time to check hours again. I decided to pick an iso-tech 1337 meter from RS electronics. these are well regarded and thought not sure re my meter thought best to pick up something a bit more decent like this.

anyways measurements below, shown as LAMP POWER & Color mode(EDGE : CENTRE)

in fc so need to multiply these by screen gain which in my case is x 1.1 to get readings in FL

ECO & THX, (18 : 22.5)
NORM & THX, (22.5 : 27.5)

NORM & Living room, (51 : 63)
ECO & Living room, (37 : 47)

NORM & Dynamic, (70 : 87)
ECO & Dynamic, (53 : 65)

ECO & Natural, (18 : 23)
NORM & Natural, (23 : 29)

ECO & Cinema, (18, 22.5)
NORM & Cinema, (23.5, 29)

so in the case of mode am using. ECO & THX with my 1.1 screen gain factored in am looking at 19.8 FL at edge and 24.75 FL at centre.

note screen is 92" 16:9 and throw is 4.5m

anyways hopefully gives someone some real world output measurements.

also to note have seen no noticeable or measurable drop off in brightness as yet with 100 hours on the clock. will measure again at 250 hours and then 300 and so on track how it goes and to gauge when start to see some drop off
post #2085 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idahonick View Post

dont't forget, the 6010 supports the vertical stretch. If you have a lense, it could save you the need for a video processor. This is the key issue with me. I have a TW700 and am looking to upgrade. If you want 3d, now you need to upgrde your videoprocessor. Anyway, that i my understanding.

I was all set to purchase either the 5010 or 6010 but with all of the convergances problems Im just not sure about Epson. I plan on ceiling mouning my projector.Is Epson working on a fix for th convrgance problems?
post #2086 of 2311
Both the 5010 and the 6010 have adjustable convergence, which is reputed to work very well. So, no issues.
post #2087 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by jae3cpamd View Post

I was all set to purchase either the 5010 or 6010 but with all of the convergances problems Im just not sure about Epson. I plan on ceiling mouning my projector.Is Epson working on a fix for th convrgance problems?

That does concern me. I will probably wait until there are some reports of a solution to this. I bought my TW700 out of Hong Kong over 5 years ago. have about 5,000 hours on it and not a problem and still looks great. I believe in the brand and am sure they will take care of you, but who needs the hassle, so probably will give it another month and see if this issue is resolved.
post #2088 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

Both the 5010 and the 6010 have adjustable convergence, which is reputed to work very well. So, no issues.

I think this comment is a bit overstated.

In SOME cases the convergence tool built into the 5010/6010 can fix convergence but in other cases the convergence is too far off and trying to fix one corner makes another area worse and sometimes people end up undoing the changes and the convergence is better than what they could get with the Epson convergence tool (but still off) and they end up contacting Epson to get a replacement projector in hopes of getting one with better convergence.

I think the jury is out if literally flipping the projector upside down for a ceiling mount and selecting front/ceiling projection causes convergence problems (or makes a convergence problem worse), there seems to be conflicting info on this issue and some report ceiling mounts with 5010/6010 with no convergence issues.

There is further speculation that use of moderate to extreme horizontal and/or vertical lens shift causes image problems.
post #2089 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

I think this comment is a bit overstated.

In SOME cases the convergence tool built into the 5010/6010 can fix convergence but in other cases the convergence is too far off and trying to fix one corner makes another area worse and sometimes people end up undoing the changes and the convergence is better than what they could get with the Epson convergence tool (but still off) and they end up contacting Epson to get a replacement projector in hopes of getting one with better convergence.

I think the jury is out if literally flipping the projector upside down for a ceiling mount and selecting front/ceiling projection causes convergence problems (or makes a convergence problem worse), there seems to be conflicting info on this issue and some report ceiling mounts with 5010/6010 with no convergence issues.

There is further speculation that use of moderate to extreme horizontal and/or vertical lens shift causes image problems.

That's interesting. I haven't read any of that. Where are you getting this information? I'd like to read more about this.
post #2090 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post


Are you testifying to installing a SLIM PS3 with an Epson 5010
and having NO PROBLEMS with that EXACT Configuration?

Or are you just making a blanket statement.

We have installed 9 6010 and a few 5010 with no issues running the ps3.
post #2091 of 2311
Thinking of getting the 3010 for my living room. Do these projectors have frame interpolation features to create the soap opera effect?
post #2092 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

That's interesting. I haven't read any of that. Where are you getting this information? I'd like to read more about this.

I follow all of the threads that include the 5010/6010 on both the under $3K and over $3K forums (there are multiple!). I've been watching them like a hawk leading up to me ordering a 6010 that I'm taking delivery of hopefully tomorrow...
post #2093 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

That's interesting. I haven't read any of that. Where are you getting this information? I'd like to read more about this.

Check out the Official Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5010 / 6010 thread and you'll find stuff like this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post

In reading the posts here and in private email, it appears that Epson has a problem with ceiling-mounted (upside down) 5010/6010 installation. An Epson representative has said that is true and that they are working on a solution. This Epson employee suggested not mounting the projector on the ceiling (which as we know is how most HT owners mount them).

I have no idea what percentage of 5010/6010 customers are having convergence problems when the projector is ceiling mounted. I'm guessing that some customers aren't bothered by their pixel misalignment or are exchanging their projectors without even trying to adjust pixel misalignment.

As much as I like my 5010 (I didn't have any convergence problems with my 5010 but it is not mounted upside-down), I would be reluctant recommending the 5010/6010 to anyone planning on ceiling mounting it until Epson fixes this problem.
post #2094 of 2311
Just a heads up for anyone looking to purchase the 3010 at a great price. Its Out of stock, but will be shipped when stock is received. This price may not last long so act fast! You can find it under the new tab, sold by (amazon) and not a 3rd party.Epson 3010 $1350 (NEW) With free shipping
post #2095 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

I follow all of the threads that include the 5010/6010 on both the under $3K and over $3K forums (there are multiple!). I've been watching them like a hawk leading up to me ordering a 6010 that I'm taking delivery of hopefully tomorrow...

good luck, have had my 9000 which I beleive is equivalent to the 6010. and had mine since before christmas. and ceiling mounted no issues. and I ahve been watching like a hawk as well. incase there are. there just arent so just been sitting back and enjoying

persoanlly I would stay away from any pixel adjustment or anything like that. epson even hides that away from the euro aussie versions. and for good reason. if out of box you are not happy return it. simple as that. get another. I wouldnt start meddling with all that kind of stuff.
post #2096 of 2311
I was unable to make a determination in the Official thread. Could someone who owns a 5010 or 6010, and either a PS3 or AVS calibration disk please check to see if you have the same problem I have?

They are lines of white video noise that sometimes appear in color or b/w gradations of seemingly very specific luminance values in the low to medium brightness range. Sometimes the noise reduction setting can help but at the expense of sharpness, sometimes it actually makes it worse.

If you have the calibration disk, go to the greyscale pattern which is the first pattern under misc patterns and compare your results to this:

post #2097 of 2311
Or if you have a PS3 look at the system update page or the TV/Video Services screen in the XMB and compare to these, TIA:



post #2098 of 2311
I checked quick on my 5010 and PS3 and did not see those issues. Are you using a HDMI receiver between the ps3 and the 5010? Or is it connected directly to the projector?
post #2099 of 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebronze View Post

I checked quick on my 5010 and PS3 and did not see those issues. Are you using a HDMI receiver between the ps3 and the 5010? Or is it connected directly to the projector?

Super White turned off?
post #2100 of 2311
No receiver and yes Super White is off. Appears to be the projector itself, thank you for checking.
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