Why the hatred for DLP? - Page 6

as big as I can get screen 73" + for the least amount of $$, I get a DLP.

If I can get a 73" DLP with all the latest 3D bells and whistles for $1,200, why on earth would I pay $3,000+ for the same sized LCD or Plasma?

For the price, DLps can't be beaten

I can buy 3 DLPs for the price of 1 plasma

I went with the DLP because of price and substance. It is the best bang for buck

When one can buy a 82" DLP TV for $1,900, it has selling power. That same 82" set in plasma or LCD would cost you $5,000.

What would a plasma or LCD cost in that size?




These are all comments by the OP.

Here's a question. If a 73" Panasonic plasma and 73" DLP were the same price, would you still automatically get the DLP? Be honest.

Depends largely on use.

I use my main set for internet, movies, tv, and light gaming.

I would now own a plasma for most of these uses because of burn-in.

Don't give me the load of bull that burn-in is a thing of the past with plasma sets. I have a relative with a 2010 model Samsung with it, and the plasma boards here on AVS still have people reporting it from watching a few hours of a tv channel with a prominent logo.

DLP supports wider use without this risk, even with it's downsides.

If I was using the set purely for Blu-ray movies, I'd probably opt for the plasma - price being equal.

That's pretty much exactly the point I've been trying to make.

Added emphasis and more.

It's obvious to see why they are fading out from the market place. They certainly have their place for large-tv gaming.

We will see who is LOL in a year or two. Sharp or Mitsubishi

I would still chose dlp, so I guess your back where you started

Here is my TV history....
1) 32" CRT 2) 42" Plasma 3) 57" DLP 4) 50" Plasma 5) 65"DLP 6) 52" LCD 7) 60" Plasma
This was all within 7 years. I had all of my displays calibrated by a professional. I have to say that the best picture of all of them was the 65" DLP Mitsubishi. I don't know why DLP has such a bad reputation, they have the best picture(IMO) in a dark room and nothing can touch them in price in relation to size. My current 60" plasma will be replaced with the new Mitsubishi 840 82" DLP during the holidays. I guess it is personal opinion when it comes down to it and it seams that the "fanboys" will always "fight" to justify their current set. Well that's my noob 2cents

While the reliability comment is plainly biased and uses anecdotal evidence, the last comment is just plain FUD.

Why post false information and old wive's tales to support one's arguments?

A 65" DLP weighs less than 86 lb. http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD-.../dp/B003HJ8U80


A 65" plasma weighs over 167 lb. http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIER.../dp/B004NPND20

The plasma weighs almost twice as much. (The plasma MSRP is more than twice as much, as well)

(I couldn't find any 73" or larger plasmas in order to compare them)

Hard to tell which part is worst, the ridiculous 1st statement, or the response.

I have read enough posts about LCD's and Plasmas that have gone south. And lets not forget CRT's.

TVs are not made for longevity, regardless of the technology used to produce the image. While DLP sets had moving parts (fans, color wheels, DMD mirrors), other technologies seem to run components at or near their limits, to save on costs.

This has resulted in capacitors failing in many brands, and other components giving out - usually shortly after the warranty expires.

The days of the old CRT sets - that were built for a lifetime (with cheap vacuum tube replacements every so often) are done.

My 4 year old DLP has been through roughly a lamp a year; and is on it's 3rd light engine. If not for extended warranties - which paid for everything - my set would have been out at the curb long ago.

Part of the problem, with my set, is that the manufacturer placed most of the components on the light engine. One small component failure means a large repair bill, doe to the fact that no repair shops in my area fix things - they just replace entire major components.

Plasma and LCD sets are built on the same model. Most consist of a panel and 2-3 boards that handle the power and signal feed to the panel. One resistor going out on a board means big $.

DLP does offer the biggest picture for the price of the set. Just need to be aware that the initial price may be doubled over the life of the set, should anything go wrong - and it likely will.

I purchased a 73" mitsubishi a few days ago, should be here in another week or so.

I currently have a 5 year old Samsung plasma, it has developed green noise and has the WORST IR I have seen. I love plasma but I spent $1300 on a 42" tv that has problems I cant fix.

My dad has a 6 year old 67" Samsung dlp rptv which has an excellent picture. Aside from bulbs I replaced the color wheel last year and it looks like new (it was very easy and cheap).

There is nothing that I can do about my plasma, it still looks fine but the green noise is horrible in dark scenes.

The way I see it, I can purchase a $1500 73" tv with a great picture, replace the bulb for $100 a few times, and expect to replace it in 5-8 years, or I can spend 3-5k on a plasma that isnt as big, and probably replace it in 5-8 years. For my media room I'll take the cheaper 73" option.

I see that you claim the "3D compatibility" is a stretch. You mind adding emphasis to this one like you did the other ones or are you saying it is a stretch just because?

I think the point about reliability being a major drawback to DLPs is overstated. First, the reputation of poor reliabitlity really revolves around the displays of five years ago. So todays, displays are much more robust. Secondly the cost of third party extended warranties is quite low. These warranties are based on initial price so the DLP warranty is cheap insurance. I bought a 4 year extended warranty for my 2009 82" Mits for about $275.

The lamps are $99 bucks and depending on your usage will last 18 months to near forever. I replaced my first lamp at 18 months or around 4 thousand hours. A 73" set with the same lamp would probably get some 6 thousand hours out of the lsame amp. That is nearly 3 years of pretty heavy use.

I have seen the latest Mits 73", the WD-73740 on Tiger Direct for $1200.. So with a 5 year extended warranty and an extra lamp you are talking $1500. That is your ownership cost for 5 years. So assuming you don't get a day more than 5 years out of the set, the ownership cost is 83 cents a day. You can likely beat those costs with a 55" LED or Plasma.. If you count electricity, the LED will be considerably cheaper.. This speaks to the more garden variety of displays, name brand, but not premium classs displays.

Top of the line sets have much higher initial costs. I own or nominally own 4 DLPs. I say nominally because I have upgraded fairly often and I have 2 of my older sets on permanent loan out to a brother and to my mother-in-law. All are still in service,a 56" Sammy, a 65" HP, a 72" Sammy and the 82" Mits. Only the HP was really a service/reliability problem and that was solved by a replacement under warranty. No out of pocket repair dollars have been spent on any of these sets yet. I do have a spare main board sitting around that I bought for my Mits. I don't yet know if or when I will use it. The set has about 5 thousand hours on it now, and the calibration fluctuates more than it should and has from day one. I don't really know the reason for the slightly shifting grayscale but 99 percent of owners would never notice it.

I think the biggest challenge to DLP comes when really big LEDs and Plasma get cheap. Unless Laser or some non UHP lamp illumination appraoch comes along the cost advantages to DLP disappear. I saw a 70 inch Sharp at Costco for $2200 the other day.

Sharp has insane production capacity for big displays and they are going to put in to full effect. The new 80" Sharp is a very decent TV and available now for $4500 on the street, not that much higher than the WD-82840. The Sharp does not do 3D.. but if you are looking in the 80" class and 3D is not important to you.. you would have to really think about things.

There are plusses to DLP, there are plusses to backlit LED.. For most consumers the LED is now very competitive in the 80" size class. I myself am going back and forth between a somewhat smallish for my needs 80" Sharp and the bigger Mits 92"... They are both a little pricey for their minuses but they will come down 25 percent or more in the next few months.

I have to say the DLPs are easier to look at... but the largest ones don't make as much light as I would like.

Did someone request this thread to be stuck?

Really taken by a couple of continuing themes. First, that RP is old technology. Isn't front projection older?
Why would RP screens be bad for image due to it's light path. Heck, FP has to reflect back at you. Isn't the coveted direct view CRT a RP technology light path in a way?
I have a 65" Mitsubishi RP CRT that's really a combination of all the "old" technology, CRT and RP. I've never seen a 65" TV of any other type that looks as good. Now, it is really well maintained, has never broken and is more than a decade old. Plus it can't go 3D, although sometimes it looks that way with the clarity and color depth and motion capabilities of the CRT. Can't even remember when I bought it, it's so old. Yes, it is large but dread the day something irreplaceable goes down on it. So far, so good. If it did quit today, it would be replaced by the largest Mitsu DLP.
I would love for whomever to look at my RPTV and tell me there is a problem with that light path.

Looks like it.

Interesting topic, but debatable if it is "sticky" status. Though there are few stickies here.

This is my beef with DLP. 1st I will say I loved my Samsung set for the 5yrs I've owned it, had the bulb replaced once last 7 months ago, just unfortunately ran out of my extended warranty in Sep. The problem is when the inside gets dirty, meaning the lens and reflector mirror. In the last few months, I've been noticing a glare of white surrounding bright images which bleed into the black. Strange is I probably noticed some of it as soon as my new bulb was replaced, but as I write i question myself "Why didn't I complain about this to PC Richards before the end of my warranty?" Geez.. well I know I've been busy, but I think I thought for some reason I had more time. I believe this image problem is from the dust that has collection onto the lens and mirror in the last 5yrs, but the problem? NO easy access on cleaning it. Why is this? Why did't this become a thought before or during the late 5yrs of owning this otherwise great set? I've searched all over for some kind of step by step on preceding on cleaning this set, but nada. It really is bugging the hell out of me when I watching anything.. alot of times in 2:35 movies especially it almost looks as if the picture is lost in a haze. When credits roll on top of a black background you see a halo around the text. Does anyone know of any help?

Maybe some of the techniques in this thread I've been using to maintain my RP CRT set would be applicable. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922 Some excellent info in that thread if you have time to sort through it all.

"Nada"? Really? Nada? You "searched all over" but "nada"? How did you search? What were your search terms? Look at the top of this sub-forum ("Rear Projection Units") and you'll see a thread named "Problems with a older TV, new isn't always better. Try repairing it first" started by videobruce and you'll see tons of links for repairing and maintaining RPTV's.

See this is where I start to question the ligitamacy of some of the "members" here who come into this sub-forum for the sole purpose of complaining about their DLP TV's. Something just isn't passing the stink test for me.

And I'd still like an answer to my question (preferably from one of the moderators listed at the bottom of this sub-forum) as to why this thread was stuck.

The concerns around cleaning are real. People cook so there is alway smoke and oil being but into the air. Extended warranties are not really maintenance plans. I doubt you can just call up your warranty company and say hey it is time for my set to be cleaned. Ideally, they should be clean annually. Even it they warranty picked up the tab on that, do you really trust the average parts changer to do it properly.

Repair techs for the most part are not impressive either for their technique or knowledge. Quality of tech is not part of the list of reliability issues with Rear Projection but it a concern because of the extra maintenance necessary with the optical path.

I'm not doubting the concerns about cleaning. Here's my post in the Mits DLP Lens cleaning procedure where I cleaned the lenses in my Mits 57732 Light Engine: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20845554 I actually posted it first in the thread specific to Mits 732 TV's, and videobruce moved it so it actually exists twice on this board. In my post above I tried to emphasize the fact that if someone was really looking to find a procedure for cleaning their TV, which one could consider routine maintenance and not foreign to electronics, they could easily find it.

I had a 46" 720p Sammy. I did not have to worry about image retention when watching pillar/letter box material or playing games. The only reason I "upgraded" was the color wheel died, and there was smoking deal on an LG 47LV5500. (I did research replacing the CW myself, and saw it was about 50/50 good vs bad results)

I did not experience any "rainbow effects" or any of the other issues reported. Had I had the money when they were still selling them, I would have bought one of the Samsung 1080p LED lit DLP sets.

1080please; Sounds as Mits isn't the only DLP that suffers from this.


Have you bothered to ask them??

I have a DLP and have never had a problem wiht it, the thing works great in my opinuin!

As an owner of a Sony SXRD based RPTV (KDS-R50XBR1), I can only wish that I went with a Samsung or Mitsu DLP instead.

At that time, the primary reasons DLP lost out to SXRD (LCoS):

-DLP has a very mechanically complex design. The DMD chip contains millions of surface-mounted micromirrors, each mirror pivoted on its own microscopic hinges to function. (while LCoS/LCD/Plasma are a completely solid state tech)

-The spinning color wheel along with its rainbow effect and potential for failure (yep I foresaw that they would eventually prove troublesome)..was a major let down. The last batch of Sammy LED DLPs and the Mitsu LaserVue sets did away with it thank goodness.

-Vertical resolution doubling, better known as wobulation, is nothing but a cost cutting tactic. It forces the DMD to work double duty, and I never liked the thought of that from a long term reliability standpoint.

-All DLP RPTVs employ a single chip DMD solution instead of the far superior three chip design used in both prominent LCoS offerings of the time: JVC D-ILA and Sony SXRD.

I can nitpick further, but won't. Hindsight is always 20/20 and LCoS (at least within the RPTV market) turned out to be a massive failure. I can adamently say that I regret not going with DLP back then. Sure, a service call or two would likely have been necessary with a DLP over the past five years....but what I and thousands of others have gone through with our LCoS sets is nothing short of a living nightmare.

I still don't get why Mitsubishi didn't switch to Samsung's more advanced and bulbless DLP technology unless Samsung refused to sell its rights to it to Mitsubishi. But then look at who dropped out of the DLP TV market.

Mitsu did drop the lamp in their LaserVue lineup. They opted to use high intensity lasers vs. Sammy's lampless solution of ultra-bright LEDs. I agree that it is a crying shame that Sammy completely dumped DLP after nearly perfecting the technology.

It wouldn't of been so bad if those chips would of been offered as a cheaper offering, leaving the 'full' chip version as the step up. I'm sure most here would of not thought twice which way to go.
It was nothing short of pure stupidly! Period!.
They invested in alot of additional R&D and blew it off. Major mistake!

Yes Bruce you said it! It's one of the dumbest marketing decisions I recall from a major electronics corp.

Recalll their massive "it's the mirrors" advertising campain which was pure genious. They must have spent millions on those commercials. I remember Samsung DLP being promoted as the official display technology of the NFL, and the impressive commercials that went along with that perk.......and then Sammy suddenly drops their flagship product line _WHAT?!_

I know, totally crazy. Even today when consumers think of Samsung TVs, most first think of the DLP glory days. Their flat panel LCD lineup, although impressive in its own right, still plays second fiddle in regards to Samsung brand recognition for many.