or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Why the hatred for DLP?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Why the hatred for DLP? - Page 11

post #301 of 377
It's only 720P and a flat panel will clean up the room a little.
post #302 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by inuyasha-rules View Post

Nothing is bullet proof. Dlp is the new kid on the block and repairs are expensive and common. Bulbs, ballasts, and the little Dlp chip are common repairs I've heard of costing between $100 and $600 on average. Considering I saw some decent looking LCD tvs at walmart today that were 55"+ for around $1200 it doesn't make sends to go Dlp. LCD is a mature technology and while im sure bulbs do burn out, I've never had it happen even on my pentium 1 laptop. Look around at all the faqs about changing a Dlp bulb then try to find an equal amount for LCD. When I can buy a new LCD for about twice the cost of a bulb and light engine, which one do you think im going to chose? Btw, im using LCD as an example since I have limited experience with plasma. My preferred display is crt as it doesn't motion blur or pixilate as bad as any digital display I've seen but they are big, heavy, and nearly out of production


DLP isn't that new. It's been around for quite a few years now, in different formats of course. The technology got better, but the early home use DLP's, like a Samsung 6168w, or one of the sort... Were a nightmare. Having to replace a bulb every 5000 hours or so isn't a big deal, and cheap if you look at it in the long run. Having to replace the color wheel, or other components mroe often than that, and at a hefty price... Not worth the trouble.

The technology was so hit or miss that class action suits were filed. People were beta testers essentially. The price you pay to have a 50+ inch tv that was cheaper than LCD in its day, and of great picture quality. But it's build was something other than true quality...

Unless you're one with money, or knows how to replace the parts of these televisions, and can work out deals for the parts... Stay away from DLP. It's a headache.

Go disposable. If an LED LCD tv goes bad after five years of use, you've likely bought a second one for less than the guy owning a DLP and it's maintenance.
post #303 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post

It's only 720P and a flat panel will clean up the room a little.

You're joking, right? Full 1080P DLP RPTVs and projectors have been available for almost a decade now.

A flat panel will only "clean up the room a little" if you hang it on a wall. Still have an entertainment center with stacks of equipment.....then the space saving is null & void.
post #304 of 377
I have yet to see an LCD set that has a 3d picture looking as good as what I get off my Samsung 72" DLP.
For that matter, just how much would a 72" LCD 3d set cost?
post #305 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbc1978 View Post

The technology got better, but the early home use DLP's, like a Samsung 6168w, or one of the sort... Were a nightmare. Having to replace a bulb every 5000 hours or so isn't a big deal, and cheap if you look at it in the long run. Having to replace the color wheel, or other components mroe often than that, and at a hefty price... Not worth the trouble.

It's true that the color wheels of the older models (pre '08) tended to be a recurring headache. The newer Mitsubishi sets are far more reliable. It is also possible to avoid the color wheel + lamp all together with the LaserVue.

Quote:


Go disposable. If an LED LCD tv goes bad after five years of use, you've likely bought a second one for less than the guy owning a DLP and it's maintenance.

All TVs and supporting equipment are eventually disposable.

LCD TVs are not impervious to problems and their repairs can be extremely expensive out of warranty. It is good practice to buy an extended service plan for all major electronics. Don't gamble that an LCD will never crap out over the course of five years, they do quite often.
post #306 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclark View Post

I have yet to see an LCD set that has a 3d picture looking as good as what I get off my Samsung 72" DLP.
For that matter, just how much would a 72" LCD 3d set cost?

Two great points that I agree with wholeheartedly.

DLP 3D > LCD/Plasma 3D

DLP bang for buck > than any large LCD/Plasma
post #307 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbc1978 View Post

...Go disposable. If an LED LCD tv goes bad after five years of use, you've likely bought a second one for less than the guy owning a DLP and it's maintenance.

Replacement lamp: $99
Replacement LCD: $2300
Understanding Math: Priceless.
post #308 of 377
I'm on my 3rd Mits DLP. I've owned a 57", 73" and now we just bought a 92". The closest LCD/Plasma to that size is the Panasonic 103" Plasma for a mere 22K. I've had nothing but great experiences with these, oh I did have to change 1 bulb at a cost of $129, but I would like to know where I can get a $129 LCD TV at though.

Like the poster above said, make sure to get an extended warranty. Even with the added cost of that its still cheaper out the door.
post #309 of 377
This thread should be closed....it's full of useless, illogical, misinformed crap.
post #310 of 377
I think that's the reason it was stickied. The misinformed can post here and have their old wive's tales debunked. It's obvious from some posts that some people didn't even know that DLP is HD.
post #311 of 377
Maybe the title should be DLP; Myth vs. Fact
post #312 of 377
If anyone cares...

I got into the Service Menu today on my Samsung HL-P5685W

Lamp Life 18,381

I don't know where that falls in the range of normal lamp life, but I'm more than a little surprised it is still running.

18381 / 7.5 Years = 2450 Hrs per year
2450 / 365 = 6.71 Hrs per day
post #313 of 377
Purchased my Samsung HL-P5063W over 9 years ago for about $2000. My bulb burned out exactly one month after my 5 year extended warrany expired. Found a replacement bulb on ebay for $55 and replaced it myself. About 2 and half years ago the color wheel went bad. Found one on ebay for $89.95 and replaced it myself. Picture is still super strong while running Blu-Ray and HD FiOS.

If it ain't broke, dont fix it. If it is broke, buy the part on ebay and fix it.

The complainers are the one's to chicken-shizz to man up, do the research and pick up a tool and fix the thing. I am willing to bet total cost of ownership from purchase til unrepairable death of the product will always be in favor of the DLP.
post #314 of 377
loved my Samsung hlp 5085 for 7 plus years until today,seems i need to replace the dmd board which costs 800-900 to repair which is insane ! looks like a led unit is coming my way soon which i can buy for 1200 bucks and have a far superior picture,take up less room and not give off heat like this dlp,i don`t know how but the original bulb is still going on this dlp for 7 plus years and i watch on avg 5-6 per day so i guess its going to blow real soon as well ! i`ve now joined the hatred group !
post #315 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by esj View Post

loved my Samsung hlp 5085 for 7 plus years until today,seems i need to replace the dmd board which costs 800-900 to repair which is insane ! looks like a led unit is coming my way soon which i can buy for 1200 bucks and have a far superior picture,take up less room and not give off heat like this dlp,i don`t know how but the original bulb is still going on this dlp for 7 plus years and i watch on avg 5-6 per day so i guess its going to blow real soon as well ! i`ve now joined the hatred group !

Well 7 years 5-6 hrs per day, never replaced the lamp or took care of it in any manner I assume. You might gain about 3 sq. ft. and have to turn on your furnace. Superior picture???? There's another group I would put you in that rhymes with "Cupid". I'm a lifelong member of a hatred group but it's not toward DLP
post #316 of 377
so you hate me for making a post ? why would i need to replace the bulb when its operating fine,don`t understand your reply
post #317 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by esj View Post

so you hate me for making a post ? why would i need to replace the bulb when its operating fine,don`t understand your reply

Your post is what's hard to understand, your set lasted over 7 years without even a lamp replacement, you're complaining about 3 sq. ft. and heat which I guess might be noticeable if I was in a cardboard box with my DLP.

I don't understand the basis on how you've decided to become a DLP hater.

But please don't feel the need to reply and attempt to explain.
post #318 of 377
What kind of black levels do these Mitsu DLPs have, anyway? In numbers.
post #319 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

What kind of black levels do these Mitsu DLPs have, anyway? In numbers.

...asks the proud owner of a brand new plasma, and resident DLP basher...

Your question is like a Toyota Prius owner asking a Humvee owner what his vehicle's coefficient of drag might be. (It doesn't matter at all to the Humvee owner, and it's silly for a Prius owner to be supercilious about it.)

That being said, my meter is not accurate enough at the low levels being measured, and I've only seen MLL (Minimum Light Level) readings in the LaserVue DLP thread, since it appears that is the only set that may be in competition for plasma buyers. Someone in that thread measured it at .007 ftL, which is better than a lot of plasmas, including your ST30 (.008 ftL)*, the Panasonic VT25 (.009 ftL), and the Samsung PN58B650 1080P Plasma (0.025 ftL). http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19565746#post19565746 Even the Plain Jane Samsung HLxxA750 DLP was .025 ftL, which is equal to the Samsung plasma above.

*0.028 cd/m2 http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st30b-p42st30-201105161138.htm


Again, just how important are these "numbers" in the real world? Here's an excerpt from the article Measuring Black Level...and 5 other Myths:

Quote:


The very "best black" you are going to achieve with any display in a given environment is the "room black". We calibrate all displays with something called "Pluge" patterns that allow us to "just barely see 2% of the light output on the way to peak white. Some of the best discs provide a 1% stripe, but the difference is almost academic. The point is your room has a black level "floor" determined by the ambient light leakage from all sources that can "see" the screen, i.e., light leakage from behind curtains that don't perfectly seal off the windows, a lamp turned on in an adjacent room, the red, yellow, green and blue LEDs on the face of the equipment rack (even though it may be several feet from the screen), and even, yes, viewer's clothing. A competent product reviewer would never attempt to measure a very low black level wearing a white shirt! In other words, unless you have a pitch black dedicated theatre with a black velour cloth draped over the front of the equipment, you are probably NOT going to take advantage of that ultra-low black level specification on your new display. Truth is, it was probably manifested as an ultra-high C.R specification (based on a very small denominator). Same deal. Ya ain't gonna get it without "The Perfect Room".

http://www.tweaktv.com/terry-s-tips/one-installers-opinion-measuring-black-level-.and-5-other-myths.html



So here's a similar question for you. What kind of black levels do 73" plasmas have, anyway?

Hint: there aren't any 73" plasmas...

In a nutshell, if you like plasma, buy plasma. The same goes for buying LCD or DLP. Buy what you like, and what you want. I wanted a large screen with accurate picture. The other aspects of DLP were just gravy, so to speak.

I doubt anyone really cares what you or I prefer anyway.
post #320 of 377
^^^ Five star (*****) post of the day. Glad you've got this sorry _____ under control Augerhandle!
post #321 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post


...asks the proud owner of a brand new plasma, and resident DLP basher...

Your question is like a Toyota Prius owner asking a Humvee owner what his vehicle's coefficient of drag might be. (It doesn't matter at all to the Humvee owner, and it's silly for a Prius owner to be supercilious about it.)

That being said, my meter is not accurate enough at the low levels being measured, and I've only seen MLL (Minimum Light Level) readings in the LaserVue DLP thread, since it appears that is the only set that may be in competition for plasma buyers. Someone in that thread measured it at .007 ftL, which is better than a lot of plasmas, including your ST30 (.008 ftL)*, the Panasonic VT25 (.009 ftL), and the Samsung PN58B650 1080P Plasma (0.025 ftL). http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post19565746 Even the Plain Jane Samsung HLxxA750 DLP was .025 ftL, which is equal to the Samsung plasma above.

*0.028 cd/m2 http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panas...1105161138.htm

Again, just how important are these "numbers" in the real world? Here's an excerpt from the article Measuring Black Level...and 5 other Myths:

http://www.tweaktv.com/terry-s-tips/...her-myths.html

So here's a similar question for you. What kind of black levels do 73" plasmas have, anyway?

Hint: there aren't any 73" plasmas...

In a nutshell, if you like plasma, buy plasma. The same goes for buying LCD or DLP. Buy what you like, and what you want. I wanted a large screen with accurate picture. The other aspects of DLP were just gravy, so to speak.

I doubt anyone really cares what you or I prefer anyway.

It was a question, not an attack. I couldn't find many measurements. I was curious. I've said many times that DLP has had excellent technical performance.
post #322 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by esj View Post

looks like a led unit is coming my way soon which i can buy for 1200 bucks and have a far superior picture,take up less room

Hmm, I am used to CRT RPTV and can't stand LED because the image looks fake and motion is absolutely terrible. So bad that I look at other people in the room and wonder if it's some sort of joke that they can stand it. So that's out for me. As far as taking up room, unless you are hanging it on the wall no TV will take up less room than a DLP. If it's on a stand it goes by the stand not the TV.

Plasma is probably great, but I can't get past the terrible glare on the screen. No point in bothering to try and look past it. Any glare/reflection at all is my biggest problem with any kind of display. I'm too used to my CRT with the glare screen off..no glare at all..beautiful. Frankly if I could find a used 73" Mitsubishi CRT on Craigslist I might prefer that over anything.

DLP has a natural looking picture, can handle actual movement on the screen, and is cheaper than smaller fixed panel displays. After researching it's the only choice I could make for a new TV. I could only see going another way if I needed a small display.
post #323 of 377
Well no one has any good pics for home theater rooms for starters w/DLP's. You cant cover/box them up and make them look better because they have to breathe. I would say buy the 70 inch sharp or buy a bad ass projector for 1500-2000. I just bought a 73740 DLP for mine home theater 4 weeks ago with 5 3D x103 glasses and kinda want to get rid of it already, and I havent had any problems with it.
post #324 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar74 View Post

Well no one has any good pics for home theater rooms for starters w/DLP's. You cant cover/box them up and make them look better because they have to breathe. I would say buy the 70 inch sharp or buy a bad ass projector for 1500-2000. I just bought a 73740 DLP for mine home theater 4 weeks ago with 5 3D x103 glasses and kinda want to get rid of it already, and I havent had any problems with it.

post #325 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar74 View Post

Well no one has any good pics for home theater rooms for starters w/DLP's. You cant cover/box them up and make them look better because they have to breathe. I would say buy the 70 inch sharp or buy a bad ass projector for 1500-2000. I just bought a 73740 DLP for mine home theater 4 weeks ago with 5 3D x103 glasses and kinda want to get rid of it already, and I havent had any problems with it.

NooBs...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar74 View Post

BEST 3D I HAVE EVER SEEN, DESTROYED my buddies led 3d.

Your "Home Theater" is a converted 12 x 13 office, with no door, audio by Bose. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21937374

No need to box in your TV, or bash a TV because you can't figure out how to set up your room.

There are DLP based Home Theater setups in the Home theater forums for you to check out for ideas.

http://www.avsforum.com/gallery/album/index/community/2080319


Edited by Augerhandle - 6/6/12 at 5:18pm
post #326 of 377
I've had my Samsung HL61A750 for over 3 years and I can't say enough good things about it. It weighs just a little over a 100lbs, consumes 200 watts, and can't get any image burned into it, as there are no phosphors. This set is a true LED TV. The leds are supposedly good for 50000 hours. I just worked on mine for the first time and I replaced a $20 fan and it's working again. It don't get no better than that. I love the picture and it looks great. Mine is cabled to a PC (the one I'm typing on now) with a vga cable (a good one) and will run in 1080P, though I run my pc at 1360X768, so I can read the text better. The electronics is all modular, and easily replaced.

I'll shut up, but I do love my tv
post #327 of 377
Love mine. The only problems I've had are color wheels, digital blocks (chipsolder failure), bulb failures, DMD failure, capacitor failure.

Other than that they are fantastic smile.gif. I actually have and still own three (HL-T4675s-eats bulbs, bad dmd/capacitor , HL-R4667w- bad color wheel and dnle chip, HL-R4266w- bad dnle chip but now a parts donor for my 46".eek.gif


Seriously though... I still love the picture and sound quality. I will keep them going as long as the repair costs stay low. So far the repairs were under warranty except for the bulbs that were eaten by my HL-T, or free by stealing parts from the 42"
Edited by JonDotCom - 6/8/12 at 9:18pm
post #328 of 377

It's no wonder why Samsung quit making them.  My 4 year old Mitsubishi and my daughter's 6 year old Mitsubishi are still going strong, with no repairs.  Still says something about the picture though, when you prefer to repair it rather than dump it.smile.gif


Edited by Augerhandle - 6/8/12 at 8:00pm
post #329 of 377
jonnythan is 100% right that DLP RPTVs are going by the wayside. There is no logical way to argue this. You can use the argument that looking at what is in B&M stores does not count because none of us would buy A/V from there, but the fact is that there are not enough of us to keep a market sustainable. The much larger population of folks that do go to B&M stores and pay full price based on what they see in front of them or hear from the salesman define the majority of the market. Face it, we are the Niche buyers. Online is getting bigger and bigger but it does not hold a candle to B&M for purchases like TVs. What you see in B&M stores is the majority of the market. When a product falls out of those stores and into online only, it is because there is not enough sales to justify precious floor space (not counting those boutique manufacturers that don't really do retail sales). By definition, that product is no longer mainstream. And I don't think it has much to do with people being uneducated. It has to do with people not caring near as much about picture quality as to how the TV looks in the room. If you ignore any personal opinions on picture quality, it is hard to get around the fact that a 70" LCD mounted on the wall with thin or in-wall speakers looks better to many (including me), if not most, consumers than an 18" deep Mits DLP sitting in the room, whether it is in a nice cabinet or not.

That said, I have a Mitsubishi 82737 TV in my family room. Yes, I would have preferred an 80" panel hanging on the wall. When I purchased it, however, it was the largest TV screen you could get for a reasonable price. And the picture is phenomenal. While I can understand jonnythan's and others preferring the picture of a nice plasma or LCD, for me it was size over perfect picture quality. Although I have to say that I have a 50" Pioneer Kuro 1080p set and I think the two are very comparable. At nearly 4,000 hours, I am on the same lamp, although I purchased an extra lamp when I bought it, just in case. smile.gif

In the end, I am not sure how anyone can avoid the fact that RPTV will not be here for long, without deluding them self. My guess is the only reason Mits is still in the market is because they are the only one in the market. If you have no competition and can undercut the price of panels, people like me, who want the biggest screen they can get with nice quality and are willing to have a big TV taking up living room space, will buy it. With the recent release of cheaper 70 and 80" LCD TVs from companies like Sharp, Mitsubishi will either get out of the market or be relegated to a smaller and smaller community of folks in that market niche. While I love my set, drool over the 92" and would hate to see RPTV die, I would be surprised to see Mits still making them in 2-3 years. I hope I am surprised. In my case, as much as I love my Mits, I would have thought long and hard about an 80" Sharp LCD instead, if they had them when I bought it. I have not seen one in person yet (2 weeks I see my Folks new set), but I am better the picture quality is good enough for me. When the videophile in me needs to come out, I switch to the projector anyhow. 82" screens are just too small. :P

As to my answer to the original question. I know why most people hate DLP RPTVs. Because they are not flat panels. Whatever their reasons, nearly everyone that sees my TV will agree that the picture is terrific but they have reasons that they would never have it in their living room. It's OK tho, I am fine with being in the minority. I was already there when I knew to come here to do the research before I bought it. smile.gif

Shan
post #330 of 377

I don't believe Mitsubishi intended for DLP to be "mainstream".smile.gif

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

[snip] ...When Mitsubishi invented rear projection, most people still bought 19"-25" CRT TVs. Mitsubishi filled a need for those who wanted the big screen experience. They never outsold mainstream TVs, they never tried. Then they moved into DLP technology, easily stepping into the HD market. Other manufacturers who tried DLP eventually couldn't compete in rear projection, and pulled out, leaving Mitsubishi in a great place with zero competition. While the other manufacturers continue to fight over market share for mainstream TVs, Mitsubishi sits in it's same niche market as before, except now with absolutely no competition. The definition of success...

 

Plus, while the LCD market is saturated, the big screen segment of the market has shown the most growth in the last two years (and Sharp has jumped on the bandwagon), so I don't think there's any danger of them becoming obsolete anytime soon.


Edited by Augerhandle - 6/8/12 at 8:32pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rear Projection Units
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Why the hatred for DLP?