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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 336

post #10051 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Yup. So I finished up my session at the other best buy and ran over to this Best Buy again. I am standing in front of the TV now and something is up. I think the TV needs to be serviced. I am looking really closely and I can see a faint white line across the entire screen where the picture meets the black letterbox bars (top and bottom). Almost like those pixels are being lazy.
Also there are figure prints all over the screen. That sure doesn't help!

I wonder if this wasn't some kind of HDMI connection issue. That sounds like a really odd issue to happen all of a sudden. But tampering hands in the rear of the display might more easily explain what you saw. But who knows?
post #10052 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by powermonkey24 View Post

You may not have paid 7 grand but you certainly didnt pay near what the VT50 is even at full price. I love how a TV that is half the price can give this over priced set a run for its money, and how all the full array backlit local dimming sets want to be "plasma like"

Or how the increased brightness of the VT50 wants to be LED/LCD like. wink.gif

Cuts both ways.
post #10053 of 14509
Jbrady, congrats! I too appreciated your approach to making this decision. For you this was obviously the right way to go and ultimately that's the only opinion that really counts. Enjoy your set!
post #10054 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

Thank you again jdbrady. I will just have to make the trip to see the Elite next to the VT50 myself. Unfortunately the closest Magnolia Center that has the Elite is 3 1/2 hours away in New Orleans. I would have figured the Houston Magnolia Center was up to date enough to carry one but they have neither the Elite nor the VT50 available for display.
Now that is a drag......
post #10055 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Here are 3 paused shots from Science HD Ch 284

nice screenshots!...the other long group of pics from that other guy honestly looked awful and don't do the Elite justice...taking a pic of an image from a TV is tricky and is hard to do to accurately capture it...with your pics the blacks look very deep and the color of that insect also looks nice
post #10056 of 14509
Just finished watching my first few blu-rays with my girlfriend on the new Elite and Oppo bdp-93. Wow what an experience!!! I must say that I now have no doubts that I made the right choice when choosing the Elite. I am grateful that I was able to view it side by side and calibrated at VE as I now feel that is the only true way to view these beasts. It really is a shame that some of you have to depend on places like Best Buy when comparing them as I have yet to find one Magnolia that did the VT50 or Elite justice. I will be checking out my first 3D blu-ray in a few minutes: Lion King 3D redface.gif... you know... for my girlfriend. rolleyes.gif Next up will be Avatar 3D. cool.gif
post #10057 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhtatum View Post

We get it, price was a major factor for YOU. Maybe if you make another twelve posts about it, you will finally feel better about your choice.
In my opinion, there are 3 factors that one should consider in buying the Elite.
1. Viewing angle (Seriously though, you're gonna buy this TV and sit off-center of your home theater speakers or worse, not have one. Yikes!)
2. DSE (Most seem to have it to some degree. Mine does but it not a problem for me)
3. Price (Yes price, Mr Monkey, since everyone has different financial circumstances)
Note to jbrady, I wouldn't fret much about the pulsing. Its very easily minimized to the point of non-existence, if you even see it at all.
Last comment. What would a post in this thread be without the obligiatory VT50 remark. I feel fairly certain that my 2 year old son would enjoy the VT50 in his playroom , where he could watch the "new old car movie"(thats Cars, he calls Car 2 the "new car movie") over and over again. Now how I would feel about the image he would burn into the screen....

Your right it does make me feel better, my eyes feel better and my bank account feels better with that extra 4 grr in it!
post #10058 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Just finished watching my first few blu-rays with my girlfriend on the new Elite and Oppo bdp-93. Wow what an experience!!! I must say that I now have no doubts that I made the right choice when choosing the Elite. I am grateful that I was able to view it side by side and calibrated at VE as I now feel that is the only true way to view these beasts. It really is a shame that some of you have to depend on places like Best Buy when comparing them as I have yet to find one Magnolia that did the VT50 or Elite justice. I will be checking out my first 3D blu-ray in a few minutes: Lion King 3D redface.gif... you know... for my girlfriend. rolleyes.gif Next up will be Avatar 3D. cool.gif

Very true. Most have no idea how good this display really can be.
post #10059 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Very true. Most have no idea how good this display really can be.

I would add; even if you think you have a good picture, a professional calibration makes it even better. To me, the picture is balanced and you don't feel the need to constantly tweak the settings.
post #10060 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Just finished watching my first few blu-rays with my girlfriend on the new Elite and Oppo bdp-93. Wow what an experience!!! I must say that I now have no doubts that I made the right choice when choosing the Elite. I am grateful that I was able to view it side by side and calibrated at VE as I now feel that is the only true way to view these beasts. It really is a shame that some of you have to depend on places like Best Buy when comparing them as I have yet to find one Magnolia that did the VT50 or Elite justice. I will be checking out my first 3D blu-ray in a few minutes: Lion King 3D redface.gif... you know... for my girlfriend. rolleyes.gif Next up will be Avatar 3D. cool.gif
Ya so far every time I have seen the Elite, there has been lights glaring down on it. so its been hard for me to really evaluate it.
post #10061 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I wonder if this wasn't some kind of HDMI connection issue. That sounds like a really odd issue to happen all of a sudden. But tampering hands in the rear of the display might more easily explain what you saw. But who knows?

Anything is possible. The rep that I have been dealing with at that Best Buy agreed something was up with the display and he also thought it might be a HDMI connection issue or a HDMI port gone bad. In case anyone is wondering it is the Best Buy in South Loop, Chicago.
post #10062 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Or how the increased brightness of the VT50 wants to be LED/LCD like. wink.gif
Cuts both ways.

Yes..Panasonic took the only good attribute of an LED/LCD, and did it nicely and still managed to keep the cost down. You make an LED/LCD full array backlit with local dimming and the price goes through the roof.
post #10063 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Jbrady, congrats! I too appreciated your approach to making this decision. For you this was obviously the right way to go and ultimately that's the only opinion that really counts. Enjoy your set!

Yea, I am definitely happy and while it was a stressful 2 months, I do enjoy comparing displays. In the end, I can't see how anyone could be unhappy with either display. Us VT50 owners will be jealous of your black levels (Seriously Star Trek is just amazing on the Elite), I am just lucky enough to have a 500m in the next room to get my fix ( Which reminds me, I need to purchase another blu-ray player ).

Like I said, it was hard to walk away from the Elite.
Edited by jbrady3324 - 7/13/12 at 7:09pm
post #10064 of 14509
I have windows and patio doors on 3 sides with a 8 ft window facing the tv, but I do 90% of my viewing at night, so light reflection is not an issue for me

Just started watching Game of Thrones that I recorded on my TIVO. Broadcasted PQ is way better than streaming. Still can't get over its size. eek.gif I have entered several settings from what I could find in the forum to the A/V mode. Constantly switching between them while an interesting scene comes on. Lots of fun at the moment.

I do have a question in trying to better understand what are available in the display setting. Given that modes for thx, movie and so on already has CMS, Color Temp and all the other knobs, does setup of isf offers additional control on top of these besides two additional display modes? Thanks
post #10065 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by powermonkey24 View Post

Yes..Panasonic took the only good attribute of an LED/LCD, and did it nicely and still managed to keep the cost down. You make an LED/LCD full array backlit with local dimming and the price goes through the roof.

The 'only' good attribute? Me thinks not. wink.gif
post #10066 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHadoWFoX View Post

I have windows and patio doors on 3 sides with a 8 ft window facing the tv, but I do 90% of my viewing at night, so light reflection is not an issue for me
Just started watching Game of Thrones that I recorded on my TIVO. Broadcasted PQ is way better than streaming. Still can't get over its size. eek.gif I have entered several settings from what I could find in the forum to the A/V mode. Constantly switching between them while an interesting scene comes on. Lots of fun at the moment.
I do have a question in trying to better understand what are available in the display setting. Given that modes for thx, movie and so on already has CMS, Color Temp and all the other knobs, does setup of isf offers additional control on top of these besides two additional display modes? Thanks

Yes. They offer finer adjustments as well as expanded adjustments of some of the settings found in the regular modes.
post #10067 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Just finished watching my first few blu-rays with my girlfriend on the new Elite and Oppo bdp-93. Wow what an experience!!! I must say that I now have no doubts that I made the right choice when choosing the Elite. I am grateful that I was able to view it side by side and calibrated at VE as I now feel that is the only true way to view these beasts. It really is a shame that some of you have to depend on places like Best Buy when comparing them as I have yet to find one Magnolia that did the VT50 or Elite justice. I will be checking out my first 3D blu-ray in a few minutes: Lion King 3D redface.gif... you know... for my girlfriend. rolleyes.gif Next up will be Avatar 3D. cool.gif

Is the difference seriously night and day having it professionally calibrated? Or does it just tweak things to make it a bit better for purists? Unless I'm missing something the only way to get it professionally calibrated is to get it through VE or hire one of these guys and fly them out to your house. I don't think The Geek Squad at BB is up to the task.

And is mostly what you are accomplishing with a professional calibration just a bit more accurate depiction of colors or is it something more drastic? Just trying to get a good feel for this. It's the magnitude of purchasing a small car afterall so I don't want to screw up.

P.S. I saw the Sony 65" HX 929 in Houston with Avatar playing at the Galleria Sony Store. Outside of the occasional halo'ing of the Sony vs. Elite and the lesser number of dimming zones, is it fair to say the wow factor or PQ is pretty close? I may have to buy this TV sight unseen and will be depending on answers from this forum.

EDIT: I also have a home theater room using the Epson 8700UB on a 120" screen. It has excellent contrast and blacks but I have a feeling the Elite still far surpasses it. I also get somewhat tired of the restrictions of projection viewing over TV.
Edited by kdog750 - 7/13/12 at 9:42pm
post #10068 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yes. They offer finer adjustments as well as expanded adjustments of some of the settings found in the regular modes.

Arrrggg... evil marketers.

Thanks.
post #10069 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Alright, I am back and my decision is made.
First thing first, the viewing angle isn't that bad on the 70" Elite given how large it is. The 60" definitely can definitely be crippled by the viewing angle. So for my viewing environment, this is not a concern. So it came down to color (accuracy and depth). I am not sure if the TV had the patch or not, but I did notice any pulsing or haloing (ok yea, if I put my face against the screen close at the I could make a case for some haloing, but that doesn't count!)
I watched Dark Knight (all around), Aliens (for dark scenes with whites), Star Trek (deep blacks with tons of color)
Black Level and Contrast
I already know the Elite trumps when it comes to black level, but I have to comment on it again. Based on black level and pop, Star Trek and Aliens are absolutely stunning on the Elite. In terms of black level, I felt as if I was watching this on my 500m (deeper blacks than 141,111,151,600m) with just a bit more pop, especially when it came to the whites. Space scenes in Star trek just have amazing color pop. It is like watching an image on top of a sheet of black glass. Cool stuff. The blacks appear deeper here than the 500m because of the brightness of the color. I've watched each of these on my VT50 and they are stunning as well. Not trying to knock the VT50 as it is just about on the same level as a 151/141 in terms of black level and we all know that is damn good. During mid to high APL scenes, the VT50 stands firm with the Elite. Whites are brighter on the Elite, but overall the scenes are just as stunning on each TV. If all I watched was movies with dark scenes, I would have a tough time not choosing the Elite. Anyways, overall the Elite wins in this category which is no surprise. But it isn't as far ahead as you might think.
Color Accuracy
I am keeping this section short. Color accuracy isn't really an issue. The colors are pleasing and accurate. If accuracy is the only thing holding you back from purchasing the Elite, my recommendation would be to purchase the Elite. Flesh tones in Dark Knight and Star Trek both looked great. Not a factor in my decision as overtime I would just accept it and forget it wasn't 100% accurate.
Color Depth
Here is where the VT50 wins and where the displays start to look different. Unlike most LED/LCDs, the Elite does have color depth and good amount of it. However, the VT50 has more. It gives you that natural feel that I enjoy so much. I would say the advantage that the Elite has in black level is the same advantage the VT50 has in color depth and saturation with a slight edge to the VT50 (The VT50 loses to the kuro/500m in is this category)
Motion
The VT50 wins. The Elite is very good though. I would accept the difference in motion over time and stop caring. So honestly, this isn't factoring into my decision a whole lot.
So which TV is better? I really can't say. I'm not sure. Technically the answer is clear and in the eyes of many professionals the answer is also clear, however for the enthusiast and consumer, I think it comes down to values and preference. I do know I will be sticking with the VT50 as I prefer better color depth and saturation. But it is hard to walk away from the amazing black level and color pop the Elite provides.
Next year will be interesting. I think The Elite has more to improve on and more headroom than the VT50. Thus I think the Elite can surpass the Kuro next year while the VTx0 might only be able to match it. IMO

Really interesting stuff about the color depth. That's a similar finding I had... comparing a plasma to a Local Dimming tech LED display awhile back with the Kuro 1st Gen vs. Samsung's first LED arrayed beast. The color depth wasn't there even with its (then) spectacular black level performance. Funny how things have changed but the fact still sits. I am glad Panasonic and Sharp are stepping up there games either way.

About the 500m black level... I see barely any difference vs. 2nd gen Kuro. I am still thinking I got a defective one. Even completely black screens and complete darkness the glows were similar on my Kuro Elite vs my 500m. Both relatively excellent. Anyway...

Seems like the Elite is the best LED display ever. The argument is still out on what's king. Still haven't seen anything that made me want to get rid of my Kuro yet. 4 years and counting. Amazing color depth, and the second most bad ass black level in the world... *sigh*
post #10070 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Next year will be interesting. I think The Elite has more to improve on and more headroom than the VT50. Thus I think the Elite can surpass the Kuro next year while the VTx0 might only be able to match it. IMO

that is an excellent point...I agree...I do wonder how much better then VT60 can be over the VT50...I think next year we might see an incremental improvement while the Elite 2.0 has the chance to go for the jugular...videophiles are definitely better off waiting rather then making a rash decision to buy the current Elite
post #10071 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

that is an excellent point...I agree...I do wonder how much better then VT60 can be over the VT50...I think next year we might see an incremental improvement while the Elite 2.0 has the chance to go for the jugular...videophiles are definitely better off waiting rather then making a rash decision to buy the current Elite

The same can be said about waiting instead of getting the VT50. Neither set beats the KURO on all fronts and both have their issues. It's a matter of what issues you are more sensitive to. That said I do believe the KURO will be dethroned next year.
post #10072 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Really interesting stuff about the color depth. That's a similar finding I had... comparing a plasma to a Local Dimming tech LED display awhile back with the Kuro 1st Gen vs. Samsung's first LED arrayed beast. The color depth wasn't there even with its (then) spectacular black level performance. Funny how things have changed but the fact still sits. I am glad Panasonic and Sharp are stepping up there games either way.

Johnny, keep in mind that's one viwere's opinion. I had the advantage of having both my Kuro Pro 151 and Elite, ISF'd by Kevin Miller and I came away with a different opinion. I frankly don't see this color saturation difference on these two properly calibrated displays. I was able to compare them for several weeks before selling the Pro 151. The only way you can be 100% sure about perceived differences is to do an A/B on two calibrated displays. Stores like Magnolia don't offer us that opportunity and often, there's not much we can do about it.

As another poster said above, he had the good fortune of comparing a calibrated VT50 to a calibrated Elite at a great retailer like VE. Unfortunately not many have that opportunity.

Honestly, if the Elite were any more saturated, I'd begin to think it would not look accurate as it might take on an over-saturated or cartoony look. That's actually my main concern with OLED. Every one I've ever seen is over-saturated. The main claim to fame of OLED is exactly that, very saturated colors. So if current displays can already conform to Rec709, what advantages do we gain with a display that has even more saturated colors?

This is kind of like the expanded color palette that some displays offer. What good is it if these expanded colors fall outside of the Rec709 triangle? I've yet to hear a good answer for this.
post #10073 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

The same can be said about waiting instead of getting the VT50. Neither set beats the KURO on all fronts and both have their issues. It's a matter of what issues you are more sensitive to. That said I do believe the KURO will be dethroned next year.

Now cut it out with that excellent logic. There's no room for that. smile.gif

Of course it's not a rash decision to buy the current Elite if you don't want to wait and already think its the best display out there. If you have time to wait and can deal with unknown release dates that are often moved back, then it's a tougher decision.
post #10074 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

Is the difference seriously night and day having it professionally calibrated? Or does it just tweak things to make it a bit better for purists? Unless I'm missing something the only way to get it professionally calibrated is to get it through VE or hire one of these guys and fly them out to your house. I don't think The Geek Squad at BB is up to the task.
And is mostly what you are accomplishing with a professional calibration just a bit more accurate depiction of colors or is it something more drastic? Just trying to get a good feel for this. It's the magnitude of purchasing a small car afterall so I don't want to screw up.

Differences between ISF and your own settings? It really depends on how good your own settings are. For most people who have commented on it, I'd say it's pretty significant. That's how I've found it. BTW, for many people there's no need to fly a calibrator out to your house. Most of the time you can find an ISF tech who is within driving distance. The option you mentioned of getting it pre-calibrated through VE is another great option.

The ISF tech will adjust brightness, contrast, gamma, color levels, color accuracy and more. They'll do it in both the day & night ISF modes as well as the 3-D mode if you so choose. Most importantly, they'll be doing it with pricey calibration equipment that few of us would ever buy. They also come to you with tons of experience and expertise doing this kind of thing.
post #10075 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Differences between ISF and your own settings? It really depends on how good your own settings are. For most people who have commented on it, I'd say it's pretty significant. That's how I've found it. BTW, for many people there's no need to fly a calibrator out to your house. Most of the time you can find an ISF tech who is within driving distance. The option you mentioned of getting it pre-calibrated through VE is another great option.
The ISF tech will adjust brightness, contrast, gamma, color levels, color accuracy and more. They'll do it in both the day & night ISF modes as well as the 3-D mode if you so choose. Most importantly, they'll be doing it with pricey calibration equipment that few of us would ever buy. They also come to you with tons of experience and expertise doing this kind of thing.

+1 . They will run break in slides on the set for you for 100 hours before calibration is performed at the store . I had the pleasure to meet and speak with Kevin miller while he did my calibration. I even took some photos with them at the store . I also purchased a number of other items so VE also threw in a calibration of THX movie mode for me. This is great to have when streaming Netflix as ISF day and night are not active with Internet apps.
post #10076 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

nice screenshots!...the other long group of pics from that other guy honestly looked awful and don't do the Elite justice...taking a pic of an image from a TV is tricky and is hard to do to accurately capture it...with your pics the blacks look very deep and the color of that insect also looks nice
Thanks
Here they are full size strait from the camera. (Click image for full size) (AVS still reduces the sizes it seems)
338

338

338

450

Can u see the cyan bug? tongue.gif
Edited by obxdiver - 7/14/12 at 6:05am
post #10077 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Thanks
Here is one of them full size strait from the camera. (Click image for full size) (AVS still reduces the sises it seems)
338

That thing looks realistic and creepy! I bet the Elite is doing a fine job. Btw I too am blown away by the Elite and Oppo bdp-93. What a great combination

Oh and Lion King 3d was a great experience last night.
post #10078 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Thanks
Here they are full size strait from the camera. (Click image for full size) (AVS still reduces the sizes it seems)
338
338
338
450
Can u see the cyan bug? tongue.gif

Those are really nice obxdiver. You can see some of that great Elite color & contrast coming through. wink.gif
post #10079 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Those are really nice obxdiver. You can see some of that great Elite color & contrast coming through. wink.gif
Thanks Ken. I use a Canon PowerShot S3 mounted on a tripod in Manual mode with a long shutter speed.
But...don't look too hard at them...that Cyan bug may bite u tongue.giftongue.gif
post #10080 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Differences between ISF and your own settings? It really depends on how good your own settings are. For most people who have commented on it, I'd say it's pretty significant. That's how I've found it. BTW, for many people there's no need to fly a calibrator out to your house. Most of the time you can find an ISF tech who is within driving distance. The option you mentioned of getting it pre-calibrated through VE is another great option.
The ISF tech will adjust brightness, contrast, gamma, color levels, color accuracy and more. They'll do it in both the day & night ISF modes as well as the 3-D mode if you so choose. Most importantly, they'll be doing it with pricey calibration equipment that few of us would ever buy. They also come to you with tons of experience and expertise doing this kind of thing.

I have to say that the "pre-calibration" service may offer some improvement to the pq, it also stands to introduce problems as well, because the calibrator performing it can't know the lighting situation in YOUR home. Unless I totally misunderstand one of the PRIMARY reasons for having a panel ISF'd, it's no more effective than taking someone elses ISF offsets from AVS, plugging them into your own set at home, and thinking you've got a fully-calibrated panel.

You don't, and I'm surprised more calibrators aren't refusing to do this.
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