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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 348

post #10411 of 14509
Interesting read in the July/August Widescreen Review magazine. An article on HDTV by Joe Kane comes to the conclusion that 4K might not be as good as our current 1080p systems, at least at the beginning. This is partially due to what he calls the "6+ percent scaling issue" that can actually result in a soft picture due to the difficulty in this scaling process.

It's an interesting read and proves that those waiting with bated breath fro 4K might be a bit disappointed. Even well executed 4K will require very large screen sizes or close seating distances to see any significant differences.
post #10412 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Interesting read in the July/August Widescreen Review magazine. An article on HDTV by Joe Kane comes to the conclusion that 4K might not be as good as our current 1080p systems, at least at the beginning. This is partially due to what he calls the "6+ percent scaling issue" that can actually result in a soft picture due to the difficulty in this scaling process.

It's an interesting read and proves that those waiting with bated breath fro 4K might be a bit disappointed. Even well executed 4K will require very large screen sizes or close seating distances to see any significant differences.
That's interesting. I'd like to see the article because the "simple math" of the geometry difference doesn't suggest that because scaling a SD DVD on a 1080p display can look quite good. In SD to HD case you are basically scaling 2x in each direction (H and W). And scaling a HD 1080p image to 4K is basically going 2x in each direction(isn't it? I haven't paid attention to 4K resolutions), but this is being done in the same surface area as a 1080p display so the pixels will be smaller. And with smaller pixels you wouldn't think the scaling would look "worse" than scaling SD to HD on a 2K display. However, this wouldn't be the first time something is counter intuitive. Is it tied to eyesight/perception wrt more and smaller pixels?

larry
post #10413 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

Why should they replace it when they can just refurb all the sets everyone has returned and have enough to sell for another year...biggrin.gif
This could be a real boost for the transportation industry! Sets keep getting rejected, returned, shipped back, rejected again, returned, shipped back, rejected again, returned, shipped back ... eek.gif
post #10414 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by powermonkey24 View Post

Adios fellas..took a chance on the 80 inch Sharp 633U and this thing is amazing! eek.gif I like the color far more on this set, don't think its the Cyan issue at all, but this model does not have the Quatron or extra yellow pixel like the ELITE, and for me it seems to be the difference. Yes the blacks are not as good, but they are close with the right settings at least to my eyes. Picture is just as sharp as far as detail. Shadow detail is a toss up for me as well, slight edge to the ELITE. Light output is the same thanks to both being back-lit LEDS. No 3D, but not an important feature. Motion is much better on this Sharp since you can tweak the De-Judder processing from 1-10 just like the Samsung's, instead of just having a low medium high like the ELITE. Then there are the obvious reasons to switch, 2K-3K less depending on where you get your TVs from, and 80 inches!eek.gif WOW! Got mine from Costco, BB can suck it! 400 extra for warranty? Got 4 years with Costco for only 99 extra!
Nothing like a TV one really likes! Enjoy it!
post #10415 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

That's interesting. I'd like to see the article because the "simple math" of the geometry difference doesn't suggest that because scaling a SD DVD on a 1080p display can look quite good. In SD to HD case you are basically scaling 2x in each direction (H and W). And scaling a HD 1080p image to 4K is basically going 2x in each direction(isn't it? I haven't paid attention to 4K resolutions), but this is being done in the same surface area as a 1080p display so the pixels will be smaller. And with smaller pixels you wouldn't think the scaling would look "worse" than scaling SD to HD on a 2K display. However, this wouldn't be the first time something is counter intuitive. Is it tied to eyesight/perception wrt more and smaller pixels?
larry

with any new technology there will always be those who see the glass as half empty...that being said it's strange how much Kenneth keeps trying to downplay all the potential new benefits of the Elite 2.0...he keeps saying how it may never be released or how it will introduce new bugs or how expensive it will be or how 4K doesn't matter etc...hmmm

4K's biggest hurdle will be content...to me 4K would not be the main reason I purchase an Elite 2.0...if it fixes the color and pulsing issues, that alone would be enough of a benefit to justify it
post #10416 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Interesting read in the July/August Widescreen Review magazine. An article on HDTV by Joe Kane comes to the conclusion that 4K might not be as good as our current 1080p systems, at least at the beginning. This is partially due to what he calls the "6+ percent scaling issue" that can actually result in a soft picture due to the difficulty in this scaling process.
It's an interesting read and proves that those waiting with bated breath fro 4K might be a bit disappointed. Even well executed 4K will require very large screen sizes or close seating distances to see any significant differences.

Over at the Olympics they've been showing 8K - and 4K is coming out next year? oh boy.
post #10417 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

That's interesting. I'd like to see the article because the "simple math" of the geometry difference doesn't suggest that because scaling a SD DVD on a 1080p display can look quite good. In SD to HD case you are basically scaling 2x in each direction (H and W). And scaling a HD 1080p image to 4K is basically going 2x in each direction(isn't it? I haven't paid attention to 4K resolutions), but this is being done in the same surface area as a 1080p display so the pixels will be smaller. And with smaller pixels you wouldn't think the scaling would look "worse" than scaling SD to HD on a 2K display. However, this wouldn't be the first time something is counter intuitive. Is it tied to eyesight/perception wrt more and smaller pixels?
larry

Hey Larry. It has to do with that '6% extra pixels' in going to 4K. IOW it appears it's not a simple doubling of the pixels in going from 2K to 4K (at least as I understand it). Kane says it's extremely difficult to upscale as a result of those extra pixels and the math is more in favor of 8K! Go figure. At any rate you can read the entire article in the current copy of Widescreen. smile.gif
post #10418 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post

Over at the Olympics they've been showing 8K - and 4K is coming out next year? oh boy.

That was partly the hint that Joe Kane was giving. The implication was that 4K is almost obsolete in that 8K will be a more consumer-friendly resolution. In the interim, he pretty much says that we'd be better off with 2K for now.
post #10419 of 14509
Just to clarify for one member that seems to have constant issues with proper interpretation of my posts:

* I NEVER said the Sharp Elite 2nd gen would introduce 'new bugs' IF it is released. Might it? Of course it might and it might be an improvement without any additional 'bugs'. We simply don't know. But I find it reprehensible that this person continues to misquote, embellish and outright DISTORT virtually everything I say.

* As to me downplaying 'potential benefits' of a possible 2nd gen Elite, well, nobody knows what those benefits may be, so how can anyone downplay these 'benefits' when we have absolutely zero confirmation of any additional 'benefits' or if there will even be a 2nd gen Elite. More distortions and embellishments of what I allegedly said

* Did I say it might never be released? Sure, me and MANY others have stated that. That's a possibility, deal with it. The fact is NOBODY knows. It's already been stated by Kdog that Sharp's balance sheet is in dire straights, so his implication that there might not be a 2nd gen is entirely reasonable. Did I ALSO say I hoped there would be a 2nd gen? You BETCHA, why wouldn't I. I'm all in favor (and always have been or I wouldn't be a chronic buyer of 'brand new') of improvements and new generations of improvements. But again, more distortions and embellishments.

* WHERE did I say 4K didn't matter? I DID quote the most respected guy in the HDTV arena, Joe Kane as saying 4K may be disappointing and 'soft' at the beginning. So perhaps someone should take that up with Joe. However, as much as I love new stuff and new tech, I don't approach these things blindly as some do. The reality is that there is no content for 4K, the benefits of 4K when there is content, will best be achieved by very large screens or close viewing distances. Perhaps some have found a way of revising the laws of physics, but those are simply facts. There is a difference between stating facts and saying 4K 'doesn't matter'. But again, to totally misconstrue what I said, and do it deliberately, is reprehensible.

* I don't recall saying the new Elite (if there is one) will be 'expensive', but hey, it's a no-brainer it will be just as the current one is. Again, there is a difference between 'downplaying' and stating facts. Simply and utterly unreal.
post #10420 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

* I NEVER said the Sharp Elite 2nd gen would introduce 'new bugs' IF it is released. Might it? Of course it might and it might be an improvement without any additional 'bugs'. We simply don't know. But I find it reprehensible that this person continues to misquote, embellish and outright DISTORT virtually everything I say

Never say Never again was a title of a Bond movie...but yes you did in fact state that...I pulled up one instance for you...apology accepted

"Of course there's no guarantee that even 2nd year models will be free of the first year's issues or worse, introduce new bugs"

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1358702/official-sharp-elite-pro-70x5-and-60x5-owners-thread/1470#post_21044863

please don't make me look through old posts again to refute your statements...this new forum software is a pita to work with at times...plus I'm not a serial poster as I have other hobbies, interests, friends, family etc that need my time
post #10421 of 14509
There is a difference between stating something MIGHT occur (as I did) and saying something WILL occur. You clearly stated I said it WILL introduce new bugs (...or how it will introduce new bugs") which of course I NEVER said. My actual post stated the obvious and anyone that hasn't had experience in new models introducing new bugs while fixing old ones, just hasn't been around very long.

So thanks for proving what I said before, you continually embellish and distort my posts. Apology accepted. rolleyes.gif
post #10422 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

Never say Never again was a title of a Bond movie...but yes you did in fact state that...I pulled up one instance for you...apology accepted
"Of course there's no guarantee that even 2nd year models will be free of the first year's issues or worse, introduce new bugs"
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1358702/official-sharp-elite-pro-70x5-and-60x5-owners-thread/1470#post_21044863
please don't make me look through old posts again to refute your statements...this new forum software is a pita to work with at times...plus I'm not a serial poster as I have other hobbies, interests, friends, family etc that need my time

You just disproved yourself with your own post. DUH!

Apology not accepted.
post #10423 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Never seen so much bickering over a tv before. The bottom line is if you don't like the Elite then move on. If you think it's overpriced then buy something else. If you think Plasma and Panasonic are King then buy it and move on. It is simple as that.
I love my 70 Elite. I knew this would be my last set for four to five years. Every time I watch a disc I am blown away. If others are blown away by their Plasma then you get it. It's all about the experience and for me the Elite was the road I opted for.
If you feel it's overpriced there are other options. Simple as that. I have a few other hobbies and I have never seen so much worry about what folks spend. If one doesn't feel they are getting their money's worth buy something else.
I have an $8k center channel speaker. $8k for my left/right monitors. Not even towers for $8k. Some would say that's too much for a center and two monitors. I say don't worry about it. Enjoy your own set-up. Same goes for the Elite. I love it!! Was worth the money to buy and for the extra size. If one doesn't feel the same great. Go hang out in a thread for the set you do own and enjoy. Sharp isn't garnishing your pay check to buy this set. Buy something else.
It's really as simple as that...
Rick

You clearly don't get it. YOU can't spend YOUR money they way YOU want. You are disprupting the Space Time Continuum by violating Titus Troys Economic Table and Valuation Chart. Geesh. You are probably one of those types who don't buy their clothes at Walmart or live in a tent in the woods. Home Dweller.



*disclaimer: there's nothing wrong with buying clothes at Walmart. Just being silly. Not so big on living in the woods though.
post #10424 of 14509
knock it off please

thanks
post #10425 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Just to clarify for one member that seems to have constant issues with proper interpretation of my posts:
* I NEVER said the Sharp Elite 2nd gen would introduce 'new bugs' IF it is released. Might it?
Seeing that nothing is perfect, I would bet it will have bugs of some kind. Search AVS, every TV made has bugs, even the almighty Kuro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

Why should they replace it when they can just refurb all the sets everyone has returned and have enough to sell for another year...biggrin.gif
I wonder what all these manufacturers do with there used, but fine, TV's that did not pass people's personal inspections ? Most manufacturers do not sell refurbished units, most of the time that is.
post #10426 of 14509
I would imagine they are taken apart and the good parts are used for repairs..but don't quote me on that.
post #10427 of 14509
anyone try a Darbee Darblet DVP 5000 yet with an Elite?

I just bought one to try on my 70...
post #10428 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

anyone try a Darbee Darblet DVP 5000 yet with an Elite?
I just bought one to try on my 70...

YES and love it. Added depth and detail to the picture. The better the source the better the effect. I leave mine set on HD most of the time at 50. Going much higher makes the effect start to look over blown. Place after a Lumagen Radiance and it is additive to what the Radiance does. For those interested check the Video Processor thread.
post #10429 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

anyone try a Darbee Darblet DVP 5000 yet with an Elite?
I just bought one to try on my 70...

That's funny Mark, I just read the rave review in Widescreen Review and thought I'd give it a try. Let us know how you like it. The review seemed to indicate it added nothing but goodness without any artifacts.
post #10430 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

YES and love it. Added depth and detail to the picture. The better the source the better the effect. I leave mine set on HD most of the time at 50. Going much higher makes the effect start to look over blown. Place after a Lumagen Radiance and it is additive to what the Radiance does. For those interested check the Video Processor thread.

Dave, if you use a receiver as a switcher, I assume the benefits of the Darbee are still retained? IOW, a device set to 'pass-through' will simply pass whatever enhancements the Darbee is providing to the display?
post #10431 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Dave, if you use a receiver as a switcher, I assume the benefits of the Darbee are still retained? IOW, a device set to 'pass-through' will simply pass whatever enhancements the Darbee is providing to the display?

The Darbee is best placed after the AVR or VP so that all sources go thru it. It has only one HDMI input and output.
post #10432 of 14509
Got it, thanks Dave.
post #10433 of 14509
got my Darbee today

Elite is fed from Gefen Toolbox 8x8 matrix switch so I put Darbee in line with feed
post #10434 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhtatum View Post

Anyone care to place bets as to when monkey returns the 80? I am going to say a week and a half.

Maybe if they roll out an 80 inch OLED in the next 90 days...hmmmm??? After 80 inches there is no way you can go back down again..right? So I guess its the 90 or nothing else?
post #10435 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by powermonkey24 View Post

Adios fellas..took a chance on the 80 inch Sharp 633U and this thing is amazing! eek.gif I like the color far more on this set, don't think its the Cyan issue at all, but this model does not have the Quatron or extra yellow pixel like the ELITE, and for me it seems to be the difference. Yes the blacks are not as good, but they are close with the right settings at least to my eyes. Picture is just as sharp as far as detail. Shadow detail is a toss up for me as well, slight edge to the ELITE. Light output is the same thanks to both being back-lit LEDS. No 3D, but not an important feature. Motion is much better on this Sharp since you can tweak the De-Judder processing from 1-10 just like the Samsung's, instead of just having a low medium high like the ELITE. Then there are the obvious reasons to switch, 2K-3K less depending on where you get your TVs from, and 80 inches!eek.gif WOW! Got mine from Costco, BB can suck it! 400 extra for warranty? Got 4 years with Costco for only 99 extra!
Just keep in mind that the ST plan from Costco is prorated so if you end up needing a second repair, better hope it is on the cheap or your left footing the bill.
post #10436 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

got my Darbee today
Elite is fed from Gefen Toolbox 8x8 matrix switch so I put Darbee in line with feed

So, thoughts? I ordered mine today.
post #10437 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post

I have an $8k center channel speaker. $8k for my left/right monitors. Not even towers for $8k. Some would say that's too much for a center and two monitors. I say don't worry about it. Enjoy your own set-up.
Just a guess, are your speakers made in Denmark?
I may be mistaken but it appears you may have posted in the wrong thread.
post #10438 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post

I have an $8k center channel speaker. $8k for my left/right monitors. Not even towers for $8k. Some would say that's too much for a center and two monitors. I say don't worry about it. Enjoy your own set-up.
Just a guess, are your speakers made in Denmark?
I may be mistaken but it appears you may have posted in the wrong thread.

moved to proper forum

http://www.avsforum.com/t/686371/dynaudio-owners-thread/16530
post #10439 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Just keep in mind that the ST plan from Costco is prorated so if you end up needing a second repair, better hope it is on the cheap or your left footing the bill.

Usually get a new display ever year or two anyway..so no big deal right?cool.gif
post #10440 of 14509
My reply above was a question to a poster who was discussing the Elite and costs and what we are willing to spend, he mentioned his $8K speakers and i was curious if they came from Denmark, nothing to do with Dynaudio thread, no problem.
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