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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 357

post #10681 of 13419
Before you take it out of the box. Take a Flashlight and hold off angle to the screen. Go top to bottom and side to side. You are looking for something that looks like a Silver Flash or Silver thread. What your checking for is Hairline cracks in the screen, that don't show head on.wink.gif
post #10682 of 13419
Thread Starter 
Images of the day.
MountDoom.jpg
RingofPower.jpg
RingofPower2.jpg
RingofPower3.jpg
All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.
post #10683 of 13419
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayBender View Post

Hello everyone! After 6 months of research into a new HDTV for my living room, I finally made the committment and settled on the SHARP ELITE PRO 60X5FD. First time joining the AVS forum and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
IMHO there are only 2 great TVS on the market today and one very close runner up. These are
1. Sharp Elite Pro series - 60" and 70"
2. Pioneer VT50 plasma (GT also)
3. Sony XBR 929
I dont beleive anything other than those would be considered videophile quality. That being said there is no such thing as the perfect TV. So dont nitpick or those of you are still on the fence will never buy. I found what was the most important thing to me was the following.
A. Deep off state blacks
Hands down this is elite territory. Local dimming pushes the blacks very dark.
B. Bright picture.
Owned by LCD. I had to turn down my backlight because the TV was too bright. I watch in a lit room. Plasma white is noticeably dark. Plasma just cant generate the peak white. I constantly notice this in all plasma sets and this has become a dealbreaker for me.
C. Detail in the low bits (dark level detail in movies)
Best I have seen is with the elite. Cant wait for calibration. Typically a bane of SONY sets. Sony likes to "crush" the gammas in the low bits. Calibration would probably solve that however.
D. No pixel defects and no buzz from the TV
Elite must use hand picked Gen X LCD panels from sharp. I could care less about the yellow pixel, very tough to notice the difference. The yellow might come in handy for stabilizing white point. My set arrived flawless. No pixel defects, no bezel defects. I also love the pioneer VT50 but I can not get over the possibility of haveing burn in or buzz from the TV. I did not notice any of these while viewing in store, and dont expect any problems, but the risk is there with plasma and that keeps me up at night.
E. Uniform colors (white in particular) - Eliminates ALL edge lit LEDS.
Only plasma has better uniformity. VT50 wins here. Elite is better than ALL edge lit LCDs. Not perfect in corners, but still very good and you have to look hard.
I am a SONY HDTV fanboy and it is a shame to see the company, who in my opinion the absolute best picture processing / out of the box performance, start to falter. I own a 10 year old Sony WEGA LCD with a auto dimming CCFL backlight, and a SONY XBR6 I use for an XBOX360. Both TVs run flawlessly and are used every day. Unfortunately todays's Sony seems not to be interested in making cutting edge LCDs anymore. The XBR 929 is aging, but still is a great local dimmer TV with a great picture. Just not great enough to beat the ELITE.
Problems seen so far with the ELITE. (just another opinion)
Havent seen the cyan anomoly. Colors are hard to judge unless using a side by side comparison. also havent run avatar on blue ray through the set yet. If cyans are off, avatar will look like bad.
Im not too picky about viewing angle. Looks fine to me. i dont notice significant changes going off axis. I have 3 LCD sets and I havent heard a complaint yet about the off axis viewing angle from friends.
Reflective screen. Yes, it is very reflective. The plastic LCD front layer is not antireflection coated. (if it were, you would see a maroon or purplish reflection) Fresnel reflections will be ~ 4% and its not diffuse, the outer layer is smooth so you get a nice mirror like reflection from lights. Watching a dark movie with bright windows or lights in the back of the room will bedistracting. I find I have to adjust my viewing position to avoid reflections. This is an area SHARP needs to work on. Will I be returning my set for this. HELL NO! Just rearrange your viewing conditions. If you can not do this, then you may want to look closely at another TV. One that has an antireflection coating (much better on glass surfaces than plastics - Does SONY XBR929 with gorilla glass have this coating?). None of the high end sets have diffuse outer layers. Probably because this diffusion will degrate the sharpness of the image.
Out of the box setup.
I can not understand why such a great LCD tv comes with such crap settings out of the box. Sony is typically much better in this area. That being said, its not too hard to quickly get at least a few of the standard viewing selections on the elite to produce a supurb image. Calibration of this TV is a must. Here is what I found useful. For watching TV (HD and Standard DEF) I use STANDARD Av mode. After adjusting the color temp, backlight brightness, and turn down to low nearly all the processing, and adjusted the tint, the picture is darn good. In fact, what I noticed is that the contrast, brightness, hue and all that are excellent out of the box. What ruins the picture is all of the additional processing levels that are preset way too high. For watching blue ray, I use the THX Movie setting. Thats really good for watching blu-ray movies and I left the setting alone with maybe a very slight tweak or two. Still think the color temperature is too low. (I just dont like 6500K). I know its the standard, but its too yellow for me.
- I'll post my simple settings for STANDARD that I found works best if anyone is interested.
I have not yet tried to tweak ELITE PURE and the other settings (give me some time).
Pulsing artifact
I thought this was bull and then I saw it. What I saw was a fluctuating backlight effect not a steady "pulse" in scenes with a grey sky with clouds. This was over about 20% of the screen at the time. It was annoying, but its rare to see it. I think the conditions of the input signal have to be just right. It appears that a noisy or grainy scene with whites and grays may set it off. i would think this a problem with the local dimming backlight software analyzing noisy or apparently noisy input and "overreacting". Do I see this often/? no, rarely. Will I send my set back for this. NO WAY.
One last thing. The NETFLIX button on the remote is awesome. Netflix works really well on this TV and I dont mind the HD picture quality. Its noce to have built in Wi-FI and the app so handy.
Rant over. Thanks for reading.
Ray

Big congrats on your Elite and welcome to the Elite club! I think you made a wise choice, and I'm pleased you are enjoying the Elite's videophile picture quality. wink.gif
post #10684 of 13419
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

70" Coming TOMORRW: Things to check on delivery
Any advice on what to do first?
Inspect box
Inspect TV
have them set it up/plug into Media Center
THen....
Best way to tell uniforniumit?
Was planning to try RadTech and CNET settings first in THX mode
ALso try them in gamer mode and run the AVS forum disc/glasses
Try Star Trek (2009) and Hunger Games and Dark Night
Try Battlefield 3 in 1920x1080p DX11 glory smile.gif
Anything else?
I plan to do a complete report on high end gaming....
sjc

Take a deep breath, cherish the moment, set up your beautiful Elite, pop in one of your favorite movies and enjoy the superior picture quality. wink.gif

PS: Oh and welcome to the Elite club! biggrin.gif
post #10685 of 13419
Just had Geek Squad come and do a calibration on my Elite(It was thrown in with my purchase). On a scale of 1 to 10 I give it a 3. The tech used Calman to set the 10 Point Color Temp and that was it. He didn't even do a very good job with that. He did the cal in the THX Movie picture mode. Wasn't he supposed to use an ISF mode? Glad I did not pay for this service.
post #10686 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgp View Post

Just had Geek Squad come and do a calibration on my Elite(It was thrown in with my purchase). On a scale of 1 to 10 I give it a 3. The tech used Calman to set the 10 Point Color Temp and that was it. He didn't even do a very good job with that. He did the cal in the THX Movie picture mode. Wasn't he supposed to use an ISF mode? Glad I did not pay for this service.

Yeah. I raised an eyebrow when I read Geek Squad was calibrating for you.
post #10687 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Yeah. I raised an eyebrow when I read Geek Squad was calibrating for you.

Yea, I wasn't expecting much, and got even less.
post #10688 of 13419
Thread Starter 
Images of the day.
SauramonsTower.jpg
SauramonandGaldolf.jpg
Sauramon2.jpg
All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.
post #10689 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenee View Post

Before you take it out of the box. Take a Flashlight and hold off angle to the screen. Go top to bottom and side to side. You are looking for something that looks like a Silver Flash or Silver thread. What your checking for is Hairline cracks in the screen, that don't show head on.wink.gif

THanks. DId that. The BB dudes were so confused. Just found some sticky tape smile.gif

Any advice as to how to clean the screen and not scratch? Like a 3M microfiber clother or is windex/paper tower ok//??
post #10690 of 13419
More questions from a 24 hours owner:

1. First impressions (vs. DLP 73" 2008 Mits). Stunning out of box in GAME mode and THX mode (CNET settings). Can tell calibration is needed in "dark areas)
2. Setup

HTPC (NVIDIA 580GTx supporting 16-233 or 0-255) -> Onkyo 608 -> HDMI1 (ARC)
PS3-> Onkyo (HDMI CEC here works!!)
XBOX ->onkyo

1. Unlike my Mits that the HDMI CEC would switch inputs on the receiver, I cannot make this happen
2. WOuld upgrading to a pioneer receiver do this (I see this listed as AV AMP control but the manual does not state which are compatible). Sharp does not really make amps
3. If I just use a Logitech Harmony, which TV are people picking for discrete input/on/off
4. HDMI CEC is turning off the amp with the TV AND working the volume but "ON" does not work!(arg)

I really like the Pioneer/SHarp Elite remote (so does my wife). And ARC works. Thus since I would like to stop the crazy setup in another room, if a nice new pioneer AMP would
1. Turn on and off
2. Switch inputs if needed using the AV input key.... that would be great
3. Also AIRPLAY would work without hte PC hack (nice).

THoughts/help?

Finally:

How long should i use it for until having ChadB calibrate? few hours a day for a month? I am confused "why" a "burn in" is needed with LED>

Summary: Talk about a MASSIVE upgrade. Battlefield3 in DX11 at 1920x1080p is stunning. The 3D is stunning. My wife actually said "I get it, our samsung in the front room is "grey" when media Center starts this is jet black and "hey the 3D does not hurt.

So far with PC Desktop/ blu-ray/HDTV shows/Few Games very happy and kinda relieved for this much money (well, see price thread for the Best Buy real price)
post #10691 of 13419
I have always used water and a micro fiber cloth. Just make sure it's filtered water such as bottled. I used this amazing cleaning combo on all electronics and all my electronics have looked new for years. Don't use any cleaning products i.e. Windex, Mr. Clean, 409 and such. Do Not, I repeat Do Not use any Monster TV Cleaner or any other Flat screen cleaner.
Make sure if you wash the Micro Fiber Cloth do not put in the dryer with dryer sheets, this will smear the fabric softner all over the screen.
When done just dry well with seperate Micro fiber cloth.
post #10692 of 13419
distilled water is the absolute best
post #10693 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

distilled water is the absolute best

yes but I find I can get most dust and dirt off with a Swifter type duster (dry) and/ or a microfiber cloth which avoids use of any liquid: that should be tried first
post #10694 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

yes but I find I can get most dust and dirt off with a Swifter type duster (dry) and/ or a microfiber cloth which avoids use of any liquid: that should be tried first

Agreed. Liquid (distilled water) should be your last resort.
post #10695 of 13419
guys I am not saying to pour out the bottle on the set. The microfiber just needs to be barely damp. This is helpful for the smudge that occasionally may land on the screen.
Dont forget, there is also different grades/quality of microfiber. The cheapest kind to me always feel like it might scratch the surface so I only buy the highest quality possible.
post #10696 of 13419
I have a question for fellow Dirtect TV subscribers. Have any of you noticed an improvement in PQ since the last firmware update for the TV? The reason that I ask is that I have noticed a rather signigicant increase in the PQ, especially in the sharpness and depth catagories. It's like it took a nice sized step toward Bluray quality (not all the way of course). Now the disclaimer. A couple of weeks before the last FW update, I raised my Sharpness setting from +1 to +2 based on advice from Ken and Anotherdude(I think). That did make a difference but unless I am going crazy (always possible) the major leap came after the update. It is always possible that the improvement may just be on Direct TVs end. Thoughts? Suggestions? Insults?

Regardless, if you haven't tried Sharpness at +2, give it a try for a while and she how it fits.
post #10697 of 13419
mgp, earlier this year I spoke with 2 different independent ISF-certified calibrators (non-Geek Squad) who both said they would only calibrate the THX mode and not the ISF modes. One of them went so far as to say he could not do an accurate calibration of the ISF mode since the yellow subpixel "behaved" differently between the ISF and THX Movie modes.

Personally, I don't believe what the first calibrator claimed about the yellow sub-pixel, but there do appear to be a number of calibrators out there who can't/won't calibrate the ISF modes on the Elite TV, for whatever reason. Earlier I contacted Elite Support with this information, but they were pretty cryptic in their response only saying that these calibrators should "get in touch" with support. I think I saw another message in the forum from one of the providers of calibration software (Turbe?) stating that the calibrators avoiding the ISF modes were likely missing some software/equipment. However, I should add that other highly respected calibrators in the industry (like Kevin Miller) have apparently been able to successfully calibrate the ISF modes of the TV.

- JD

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgp View Post

Just had Geek Squad come and do a calibration on my Elite(It was thrown in with my purchase). On a scale of 1 to 10 I give it a 3. The tech used Calman to set the 10 Point Color Temp and that was it. He didn't even do a very good job with that. He did the cal in the THX Movie picture mode. Wasn't he supposed to use an ISF mode? Glad I did not pay for this service.
post #10698 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhtatum View Post

I have a question for fellow Dirtect TV subscribers. Have any of you noticed an improvement in PQ since the last firmware update for the TV? The reason that I ask is that I have noticed a rather signigicant increase in the PQ, especially in the sharpness and depth catagories. It's like it took a nice sized step toward Bluray quality (not all the way of course). Now the disclaimer. A couple of weeks before the last FW update, I raised my Sharpness setting from +1 to +2 based on advice from Ken and Anotherdude(I think). That did make a difference but unless I am going crazy (always possible) the major leap came after the update. It is always possible that the improvement may just be on Direct TVs end. Thoughts? Suggestions? Insults?
Regardless, if you haven't tried Sharpness at +2, give it a try for a while and she how it fits.

You didn't happen to install a darbee within your chain did you?biggrin.gif
post #10699 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Take a deep breath, cherish the moment, set up your beautiful Elite, pop in one of your favorite movies and enjoy the superior picture quality. wink.gif
PS: Oh and welcome to the Elite club! biggrin.gif

Thanks smile.gif I am stunned. Watched star trek (2009) with my wife and played some Battlefield3 in DX11/1080p/full AA etc.... just freakin stunning.
post #10700 of 13419
Geek Squad Calibration:

According to BB they are supposed to do ALL MODES YOU USE. So if you use game, or some other settnig they should do this. They are shooting for 4 hours (what they are paid). So if it is NOT RIGHT let them come back or call the premier line and get some cash back...

sjc
post #10701 of 13419
Hopefully this is OK since there is way too many posts in the Darbee thread over in video processor section and I'm primarily only interested in getting Elite owners' feedback. I received my Darbee yesterday and hook it up. It does appear to increase sharpness and some detail... however the depth and pop look about the same. Is this other Elite and Darbee owners are experiencing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

70" Coming TOMORRW: Things to check on delivery
Any advice on what to do first?
Inspect box
Inspect TV
have them set it up/plug into Media Center
THen....
Best way to tell uniforniumit?
Was planning to try RadTech and CNET settings first in THX mode
ALso try them in gamer mode and run the AVS forum disc/glasses
Try Star Trek (2009) and Hunger Games and Dark Night
Try Battlefield 3 in 1920x1080p DX11 glory smile.gif
Anything else?
I plan to do a complete report on high end gaming....
sjc

Congrats! I would actually try Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince as well as Aliens vs Predator Requiem on Blu-ray. Both are torture tests for black levels. It's amazing how much more detail you will see in the shadows. I never really noticed it until I got this set, and now my Samsung LN52A750 seems murky in the dark areas.
post #10702 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD 335 View Post

Hopefully this is OK since there is way too many posts in the Darbee thread over in video processor section and I'm primarily only interested in getting Elite owners' feedback. I received my Darbee yesterday and hook it up. It does appear to increase sharpness and some detail... however the depth and pop look about the same. Is this other Elite and Darbee owners are experiencing?
Congrats! I would actually try Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince as well as Aliens vs Predator Requiem on Blu-ray. Both are torture tests for black levels. It's amazing how much more detail you will see in the shadows. I never really noticed it until I got this set, and now my Samsung LN52A750 seems murky in the dark areas.

Regarding the Darbee, I am using it on a 70X5 and am very happy with the results. The better the source material the better the results in improved detail and depth. Generally use HD at 50 and set about 8-9 feet from screen. If you do not see a depth improvement, particularly in peoples faces and backgrounds with lots of objects (trees etc.), I would suspect your sets gamma hasn't been calibrated or perhaps recheck contrast and brightness settings. Improved depth perception is one of the main features of the Dardee.
post #10703 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Regarding the Darbee, I am using it on a 70X5 and am very happy with the results. The better the source material the better the results in improved detail and depth. Generally use HD at 50 and set about 8-9 feet from screen. If you do not see a depth improvement, particularly in peoples faces and backgrounds with lots of objects (trees etc.), I would suspect your sets gamma hasn't been calibrated or perhaps recheck contrast and brightness settings. Improved depth perception is one of the main features of the Dardee.

Is your set calibrated? If not what do you have your gamma, contrast, and brightness settings at? Thanks
post #10704 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

I think I saw another message in the forum from one of the providers of calibration software (Turbe?) stating that the calibrators avoiding the ISF modes were likely missing some software/equipment. However, I should add that other highly respected calibrators in the industry (like Kevin Miller) have apparently been able to successfully calibrate the ISF modes of the TV.
- JD

that is correct.. The problem has been history... in past generations, calibrating the Sharps gave less than desired results and very frustrating experiences. To this day, many Calibrators are refusing to even work on them.. others may go for THX only but on the models that have them, the ISFccc Interface is what's getting the best results from the Calibrators that have the proper tools and in fact, don't flat out pass on the Sharp jobs, period.... You only need to ask Calibrators like Kevin Miller or Chad Billheimer, who have probably have done more of these recent Sharps (and ISFccc) than anyone.. or ask the owners (like Ken Ross) who have had their display calibrated by these guys.. I'm trying to get the word out, but it's an uphill battle due to the past experiences/past generations.. Calibrators simply have a 'bad taste' in their mouth in regards to Sharps.. no need to fear though with the current generations, Sharp has made progress, again assuming the right tools are used..

If you want a a name of a Calibrator (besides the two I already mentioned) with the proper tools, shoot me a PM and your location (including complete model info)... Have a Calibrator you'd like to use? PM and I'll contact that calibrator.
Edited by turbe - 8/28/12 at 3:27pm
post #10705 of 13419
Chad is at my house as we speak doing a cal on my two Sharps ;-)
post #10706 of 13419
I know.. say hi to Chad for me.. let him know we are watching him live via the net and that bookshelf camera you have placed biggrin.gif

post #10707 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Regarding the Darbee, I am using it on a 70X5 and am very happy with the results. The better the source material the better the results in improved detail and depth. Generally use HD at 50 and set about 8-9 feet from screen. If you do not see a depth improvement, particularly in peoples faces and backgrounds with lots of objects (trees etc.), I would suspect your sets gamma hasn't been calibrated or perhaps recheck contrast and brightness settings. Improved depth perception is one of the main features of the Dardee.

Thanks for your feedback. I also use HD mode set at 45-55. Sitting about 10-11 feet back. I also have the 70X5 and currently using CNETs settings. I only spent about 20 minutes watching Speed Racer and Avatar so maybe more seat time is in order?
post #10708 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

The cheapest kind to me always feel like it might scratch the surface so I only buy the highest quality possible.
Just buy "lens quality" micro fiber that's sold for telescopes, cameras, and glasses.
post #10709 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

Geek Squad Calibration:
According to BB they are supposed to do ALL MODES YOU USE. So if you use game, or some other settnig they should do this. They are shooting for 4 hours (what they are paid). So if it is NOT RIGHT let them come back or call the premier line and get some cash back...
sjc

It was thrown in with my purchase, if I had paid for it I would be pissed. I was just happy to get the clown out of my house. Calman showed blue push across the board, he asked if I knew what the easiest color for the human eye to see and I said green. He then said "No it's blue, that's why the blue is set so high". He kept on babbling the entire "25 minutes" of the calibration. I will buy Calman DIY and do it myself.
post #10710 of 13419
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

That is not 'within specs' if it degrades the manufaturer's intended viewing experience. I do not think Elite would have used a set like yours for their initial product demos and showcasing, or it would have been product suicide. You might want to mention that to them. If Elite agrees they would have used a set with the amount of banding yours has for their showcasing, then they can clearly say it is 'within specs'. otherwise, no way.
Maybe you should display some photos from a photo library on the set which better showcase the issue, and use that for evidence photos. Also Adjust your display settings so the issue is as glaring as possible. The photos you send them should be huge (at least 1200x1200). It is hard to capture this clearly on moving images or pausing a DVR. I would try to escalate to a manager. You have a warranty, they need to step up. Even if a flaw is "within specs" per their definition, the flaw can be in such a place as to render the screen unwatchable- in your case, dead center of screen. I had an almost exact similar issue with a 42" samsung about 6 months ago, except the banding was off on left side. I reported the issue about 3 weeks after I bought it, and Samsung actually sent a tech to my home to evaluate it. They replaced the entire panel in the display. No hassle.
I would not expect Elite to provide any less service, but perhaps you need to keep making noise and bug the right people. Squeaky wheel gets the oil..

Lewis, first let me begin by thanking you for all your comments and advice... Much appreciated!

Turns out you were absolutely right and with a bit more insistence, the Elite customer service came back and approved a replacement for my 60" Elite tv.

So, because I had bought from BestBuy (their preferred distributor) they issued the replacement via BB. The very next day (last week) I was at the store scheduling a visit.
They replaced the TV early this week: they picked the old one up when they delivered the new one. And although not great, the new set is vastly improved over the old one...

old elite.jpeg 1334k .jpeg file
newelite.jpg 1446k .jpg file

Just bear in mind that these are patterns and the worst offenders at that. However, that bright vertical line in the center (of the old Elite), that ran from top to bottom, was visible during normal viewing conditions.
The new set is certainly not perfect, and as I've stated to sharp, I didn't expect these large screen TVs to be perfectly uniform, but that thin bright vertical band on the old one was beyond the "normal" banding I see around (including my new Elite).
Someone else posted a pic and his elite had the most pronounced bands at the very same location as (both of) mine did. Seems like some artefact from their manufacturing process, at least with the 60".

Anyway, I'll set the pattern disc aside and just watch some quality tv for a change. Well, until it's time for calibration...wink.gif
BTW, I've just picked up a new Panasonic BDT500, which I like so far - pretty good build quality.

avsforum rocks!
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