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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 365

post #10921 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Yes, personally I am leaning heavily towards purchasing the Radiance Mini 3D since I already have Calman v5 Enthusiast that can AutoCal the 125pt 3D LUT.....BUT....there is the wife issue. I've already spent close to $7000 for a TV that is supposed to be the 'best' at that time (I can undoubtedly say it is the best in terms of contrast ratio, but I can't say the same for color) so it will be really hard for me to justify to her on spending an additional $1500 to 'fix' the colors. rolleyes.gif

It's an investment to help guarantee that your video quality is the best going forward. The Mini will do the job extremely well and can be used to improve the PQ of all your sources (insert here her favorites). As an investment it can be used with new equipment when that is purchased. My XD was originally used with a 65" Panny 600u purchased in 11/06. It allowed me to calibrate that since it had no CMS. The $1500 will fix a lot of things from your other sources.
post #10922 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

That's what I needed. My set was calibrated without my being present. A mistake, I would have asked for what you are talking about. As it stands now I am not happy with it.
I can not remember if we where talking about this or it was someone else. Did you contact your calibrator and talk about your concerns ?
post #10923 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I can not remember if we where talking about this or it was someone else. Did you contact your calibrator and talk about your concerns ?

No I have not. They are in NYC and I am in Washington DC. Figured there wasn't much I could do. It was calibrated in NY, they did not travel to my house.
post #10924 of 14509
N3W813

THank you for the colorspace/NVIDIA hack.

I now understand the complexities of the colorspace and am 1000x happier with my set.
post #10925 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I can not remember if we where talking about this or it was someone else. Did you contact your calibrator and talk about your concerns ?

No I have not. They are in NYC and I am in Washington DC. Figured there wasn't much I could do. It was calibrated in NY, they did not travel to my house.

If your Elite was calibrated by VE before shipping, then you got a very accurate full calibration.

If you didn't get your Elite from VE, then you may have only gotten a basic calibration

Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk
post #10926 of 14509
Please forgive my intrusion into this thread with results from a non-elite display, but in calibrating my 70C8470U (non-elite sharp), for the secondaries, I essentially tried to get to the lowest error in hue, tweaking luminance as best I could. The primaries, I focused on the luminance and just tweaked hue when a choice had to be made. Note that I'm not saying anything new, as this is the guidance from the CalMan help screens that been in the program since very early on. Here's a pdf of my last CMS run. You'll see very low DeltaH for secondaries (magenta at 1), but high delta L errors for secondaries, with lower ones for primaries. Presentation1.pdf 161k .pdf file

I know what a calibrated display should look like and the color balance looks really good on this set, even with the lack of perfection.

Best,
jeff
post #10927 of 14509
The only way I know to deal with this is to go back & forth between some colors in the gamut section and also do at least a couple of iterations between the grayscale and gamut sections. You need to try changes in all three factors of a color even though you're trying to minimize one particular one.

IOW, if you want to lower the luminance, reducing either Value or Saturation will do that, but each one has different side effects, and messing with the Hue will also affect the Luminance in a smaller fashion, but may be the ticket. Trial and error is the only way until you start seeing the behavioral patterns of the adjustments. I have gained great respect for the pro calibrators in my calibration experiences.

In the gamut section, the blue & cyan affect each other especially the value, same with the red & magenta. In the grayscale section the 90% & 100% are also very interdependent.

Below is last night's effort with Calman 5 Enthusiast & a C6 meter. Looks great, colors look very natural. I couldn't get the 20% temperature as close as the others, kept jumping big steps with small adjustments, but I couldn't find a problem from it either in the low grayscale tones or actual content. You can see where the blue gives us a hard time, reflected in the cyan thing - this TV puts out an enormous amount of blue light that needs to be tamed biggrin.gif.

PostCalibrationDJG_C6.jpg 373k .jpg file
post #10928 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

The only way I know to deal with this is to go back & forth between some colors in the gamut section and also do at least a couple of iterations between the grayscale and gamut sections. You need to try changes in all three factors of a color even though you're trying to minimize one particular one.
[snip]
You can see where the blue gives us a hard time, reflected in the cyan thing - this TV puts out an enormous amount of blue light that needs to be tamed biggrin.gif.

It took me awhile to figure out that you had to do 1) white/black points, 2) CMS, 3) grayscale, then rinse and repeat - at least twice through the cycle. On the 8470, I could only get blue undercontrol by using warm 2, the warmest of the temperature settings. Even then I could not get blue (or red) quite right via CMS, but it's close enough.
post #10929 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by drenched View Post

I see some DSE occasionally but it's strictly in the content. I can tell because other scenes with similar lighting characteristics are totally clean even while panning. It's usually in some older shows in the dark areas, where it's harder to get a smooth image depending on recording equipment and medium.link

This is sooooo true, can anyone explain in detail what causes DSE on an LED/LCD? I've noticed a little in hockey when panning fast but when I played a NHL 2k12 I did not see it at all. Is it caused by the camera, source, or content? I've also seen it on some football when playing on turf however I've yet to see it on Madden 13. Could it be cause by panning side to side or up and down? Most video games for football/hockey are viewed north/south while most broadcasts for football/hockey are viewed east/west
post #10930 of 14509
The wait is finally over, my 70" Elite was delivered and wall mounted yesterday. The installer asked me how high I wanted it, and I think I put it 6-12" too high. I had done some measurements based on the av cabinets I was looking at but had a brain bubble and mis-remembered the dimensions! lol I was also trying to leave a little room for the center channel to go on top of the unit. Be that as it may, out of the box I thought the picture was great. It was daytime when it first went on the wall, which made the blacks look really super dark. I was tired and forgot to test some letterbox materials after it got dark last night. But here are some observations:

(As a preface let me say I had looked at this TV probably 20-30 times in Best Buy but could not really get a good grasp of its real world performance as they had no OTA feed, cable or anything else. Twice they put in Blu-rays for me, but neither was a good quality disc that could really let me know how the set would perform, and who knows what the settings on that tv were. My girlfriend got to the point that when we went into Best Buy she would go right to Magnolia and sat in the home theater seat in front of the Elite and waited for me because she knew I was headed there. wink.gif )

1) I love the feel of the remote. The positive feedback from the buttons is excellent. However, the TV seems to be finicky in that the remote needs to be pointed directly at the tv in a straight line, or often it does not work. The remote is also not programmable to run anything over than Pioneer/Sharp components. Not a huge flaw, but disappointing at this price point. It makes all those dedicated buttons at the top useless.

2) Also disappointing at this price point was no microfiber cleaning cloth included with the TV. We (the installers and I) searched the box and the styrofoam. Then I looked in the manual and saw it was not listed in the contents. The installers got fingerprints on the screen which are still there because I was not about to touch the screen with anything until I was sure how to do so without damaging the screen.

3) The blacks are really black. This is not something I usually pay attention to. This tv replaced a rear-projection Toshiba 56H80, and it was never really an issue on that tv because I always had some ambient light in the room, or even the overhead lights dimmed some. Or maybe it had good blacks. All I know is the other night I was watching my Samsung PN50C8000 in the bedroom with all the lights off, and realized the letterbox areas were black/grey. With the Elite, when the tv first powered up, the little menu instructions were white, but the rest of the screen was so black it looked like it was off. Even the installer remarked on the blackness of the blacks. This was his first Elite install, and I think he was impressed.

4) Scanning for channels was painfully slow. I know I only have to do this once, but wow. As a corollary, the "eliminate scrambled channels" process was also very slow.

5) Changing channels is really really slow. I mean really slow. I think it is tuner related, and see #4.

6) Picture quality on OTA HD material is, for the most part, just excellent. I had recorded the closing Olympic special (all three hours) on my DVR and had not watched it yet. I turned that on, and some of the footage blew me away. Oddly, some of the cuts to Bob Costas and Al Michaels were not great. Very "contrasty" is the only way I can describe it. Like there was a film over the tv screen. I'm sure its just settings as I only turned the 120Hz setting to low and turned off the Mpeg noise reduction and turned off film mode.

7) Picture quality on SD material was mediocre at best, and poor at worst. Even HD broadcasts of SD material was on the not-so-good side. Fortunately I do not watch much, if any SD. I am concerned about the PQ of my Wii, which I did not have a chance to hook up yet. I am doubtful it will be good. I am hoping the 480P setting will look decent.

8) Netflix looked very good. I started with Star Trek Insurrection (which was in the middle as I was watching it over the weekend). It is (imho) a good DVD transfer, but Neflix lists it as an HD movie. It had a shaky start, as I turned it on before the TV was on the wall, ok it was still in the box bottom, (I was setting up the internet) and the picture was fairly bad. This can happen with Netflix, for a variety of reasons, including compression and how good the connection is. Likewise, Pawnstars did not look so great. However, after getting the unit on the wall, and turning off the features noted above, Star Trek looked very very good. Pawnstars, also looked decent. Also, I took a quick look at Sherlock, and it really looked terrific as well. I watch a lot of Netflix, and this pleased me. I later watched part of True Grit (the remake) and again an excellent picture. I was using the Netflix app built into the Elite.

9a) Next I hooked up my PS3. The PS3 immediately knew it was not connected to the Toshiba anymore and asked me if I wanted to use the HDMI cable (which I already was). I said yes. The Elite knew it was connected to a PS3 and changed the input label to say PS3. Kinda cool. Apparently the PS3 ouputs everything at 1080p, even DVDs, something my Samsung blu ray player does not do. So it may have skewed my results if it was upconverting the DVD I tested - Fifth Element. I don't own it on Blu-Ray, or I would have done a comparison test. The picture was very very good. I will not have to throw my DVD collection away.

9b) Blu-Ray of course was excellent. I watched the opening scenes of Batman Begins and The Watchmen. Who knew my PS3 could look that good. As an aside, it was interesting to me that the controls on the PS3 are different when watching a Blu-Ray as opposed to a DVD.

9c) Last test for the PS3 was I popped in Skyrim. Boy was I in for a surprise. The difference between the 56 in, eye level Toshiba, and the 70" high mounted Elite was unbelievable. First, the picture was great. I jumped down off a high wall and actually got dizzy. lol Immersive is the only word I can use to describe it. The 56H80 had a lot of overscan, which I corrected as best I could. But with the Elite I was clearly getting all of the picture info. I know it is probably unfair to compare a 10 year old TV to the Elite, but keep in mind I also have a 2 year old Samsung 50c8000 plasma in the bedroom which has a terrific picture. The Elite is much better.

At this point, less than 24 hours in, there remains a lot to be seen. And obviously tweaking the settings, etc will be important to improve the SD picture quality (I honestly think the HD quality can't get much better). Looking forward to the NFL on Sunday to really see how this set handles fast motion.

Suggestions on cleaning the fingerprints from the installers off the screen would be welcome, as would general advice and comments.

Darren

P.S. I knew I forgot something. The screen of this set is SUPER reflective. I think BB is careful to have it in a fairly dark area. I have dimmable overheard lights, and the glare was remarkable, even when the lights were almost completely off.. When bright content was on the screen it became much less notable, but any dark scene and it was very obvious. I knew the windows behind my seating position were a problem, as they were a problem with the Toshiba RPTV, and the current blinds make those very tolerable. Drapes will probably completely eliminate that problem from those windows.
Edited by DarrenK - 9/18/12 at 1:10pm
post #10931 of 14509
Darren

I also thought I mounted my 70 too high but it has worked out fine. Give it some time and see if you get used to it as I did

microfiber cloths are inexpensive: try that first with nothing else

only other advise is: enjoy it smile.gif
post #10932 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

If your Elite was calibrated by VE before shipping, then you got a very accurate full calibration.
If you didn't get your Elite from VE, then you may have only gotten a basic calibration
Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk

IIt was done VE.
post #10933 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

IIt was done VE.

Then it sounds like your eyes don't like a calibrated picture. I suggest your put your display in Elite Pure Mode which probably has a higher FL than the calibrated mode/s done by VE Calibrators
post #10934 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

If your Elite was calibrated by VE before shipping, then you got a very accurate full calibration.
If you didn't get your Elite from VE, then you may have only gotten a basic calibration
Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk

IIt was done VE.
Have you talked to VE about your problem?
post #10935 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

IIt was done VE.
Have you tried setting IVC to Advanced Low or High? That will zing it up but maintain the 10-point white balance and CMS calibration. You do lose some black level though.
post #10936 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Then it sounds like your eyes don't like a calibrated picture. I suggest your put your display in Elite Pure Mode which probably has a higher FL than the calibrated mode/s done by VE Calibrators

I will experiment with that. I have not contacted VE but I may in the next few days.
post #10937 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

I will experiment with that. I have not contacted VE but I may in the next few days.

The other thing your could do is raise the Backlight in the calibrated mode. This will help bump the FL without having to sacrifice Black Level
post #10938 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

The other thing your could do is raise the Backlight in the calibrated mode. This will help bump the FL without having to sacrifice Black Level
You'd need something like ControlCAL for that ISF mode tweak, unless they also calibrated THX mode for movies. But unfortunately raising the backlight also raises the black level, sigh ... TANSTAAFL ...
post #10939 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

The other thing your could do is raise the Backlight in the calibrated mode. This will help bump the FL without having to sacrifice Black Level
You'd need something like ControlCAL for that ISF mode tweak, unless they also calibrated THX mode for movies. But unfortunately raising the backlight also raises the black level , sigh ... TANSTAAFL ...

Raising BL helps with light output, usually with sacrificing Black Level. Especially in Local-Dimming displays from what I've been told.


Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk
post #10940 of 14509
I apologize if this is a topic that has been covered before. This is a huge thread and I did search it but never found anyone who had success.

I recently bought a 70" Elite and am trying to figure out a better solution for my Harmony remote to input switching then cycling through all the inputs. I talked to an Elite rep and have a pdf of the Elite IR codes. I'm hoping that INPUT1-8 refers to the first 8 inputs in the elites cycle. Does anyone have an idea how to program the ir codes into the remote and use them for switching inputs? Or has anyone found some other method?
post #10941 of 14509
Is anyone getting a halfway decent picture out of a Wii on a 70" Elite? Hooked mine up last night (could only get 480I to work) and it was pretty bad...
post #10942 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenK View Post

Is anyone getting a halfway decent picture out of a Wii on a 70" Elite? Hooked mine up last night (could only get 480I to work) and it was pretty bad...

What cables did you use to connect your Wii? In order to get a 480p signal, you need make sure you are using the Wii component cables. They look something like this, and did not come with the system:



Once using these cables, you still have to enable 480p from the Wii settings menu. If you are using component cables, they may be defective if you are only getting the option for 480i...?
post #10943 of 14509
Well that is a complicated question. I hooked up 480i (as I stated) and the picture was fairly lousy. I have a set of component cables which worked fine on my old TV, but last night I could get audio, but no video when I run the cables through my receiver. I could not determine whether the problem was the receiver, the Wii or the cables because I could not access the back of the TV which is wall mounted to bypass the receiver. I will hook them up to my old TV tonight which is waiting to be picked up for disposal, and see if it is the cables. But assuming the cables are bad, I was trying to see if there is a way to make the 480i work in an acceptable fashion.
post #10944 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Raising BL helps with light output, usually with sacrificing Black Level. Especially in Local-Dimming displays from what I've been told.
Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk
So we do agree - the black level suffers when raising the backlight. Your original statement said the opposite hence my post smile.gif.

As it is it sometimes doesn't suffer as much. In my forage into pulsing reduction, I found that the black level difference between 32 and 34 is practically unnoticeable then there's a noticeable jump (using ISF 0-100 scaling here, which differs from the other views -16 to +16).
post #10945 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Raising BL helps with light output, usually with sacrificing Black Level. Especially in Local-Dimming displays from what I've been told.
Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk
So we do agree - the black level suffers when raising the backlight. Your original statement said the opposite hence my post smile.gif.

As it is it sometimes doesn't suffer as much. In my forage into pulsing reduction, I found that the black level difference between 32 and 34 is practically unnoticeable then there's a noticeable jump (using ISF 0-100 scaling here, which differs from the other views -16 to +16).

I meant to say without sacrificing Black Level. Sorry bout that. I know this is debatable, but from my experience & from what I've been told there should be no rise in Black Level

Sorry for the confusing as I was typing from my phone, like I am now smile.gif

Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk
post #10946 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

I meant to say without sacrificing Black Level. Sorry bout that. I know this is debatable, but from my experience & from what I've been told there should be no rise in Black Level
Sorry for the confusing as I was typing from my phone, like I am now smile.gif
Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk
No problem, but unfortunately I have found this not to be so. My eyes and meter both say the back level rises with the backlight level. If anybody else experiences differently please let me know so I can claim a defective set and get a later build biggrin.gif.
post #10947 of 14509
I just got a chance to look at the responses you folks gave to my questions and wanted to say thanks. The Elite is coming tomorrow and I can't wait - I took the day off lol.

I also like the picture to "pop", but I plan on starting with CNET settings on Movie THX mode then trying ISF Day and/or adjusting the Sharpness +2 and the Color +3. I also saw a recommendation for setting FL 40-45, but I don't see an option for FL in the CNET settings. Am I missing something?

Lastly, I read that you should watch TV for 100 hours before your calibration. Would it be ok to just leave the TV on for 100 hours straight while I'm asleep and at work? What should I watch - just regular HD cable programming?

Thanks again.
post #10948 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Raising BL helps with light output, usually with sacrificing Black Level. Especially in Local-Dimming displays from what I've been told.
Sent from my Awesome Phone via Tapatalk

So experimenting in the dark with this....

With "Local Dimming" on the backlight seems to have very little effect exepect at the extreme ends. I am assuming this is due to the zones working well.

Take a black screen and white mouse cursor.
At -10 or >+10 you see "bloom" around th emouse. But the blakc is still freakin black smile.gif

Has anyhone explained the advantages of "advanced local dimming" (3 settings) or just "on"??
post #10949 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntstambo2 View Post

I just got a chance to look at the responses you folks gave to my questions and wanted to say thanks. The Elite is coming tomorrow and I can't wait - I took the day off lol.
I also like the picture to "pop", but I plan on starting with CNET settings on Movie THX mode then trying ISF Day and/or adjusting the Sharpness +2 and the Color +3. I also saw a recommendation for setting FL 40-45, but I don't see an option for FL in the CNET settings. Am I missing something?
Lastly, I read that you should watch TV for 100 hours before your calibration. Would it be ok to just leave the TV on for 100 hours straight while I'm asleep and at work? What should I watch - just regular HD cable programming?
Thanks again.

I thought we could only access ISF through RS232? RadTech and CNET only have settings for THX mode, that served as a basis for my game mode (which is awesome smile.gif

What I leanred about GAME mode....


Most developers are using monitors calibrated slightly more "blue'..... so lowering the white a bit makes the games "pop" an white text looks more white. Once I do this, I can never get the color perfect (using blue glasses). This is where the Pro Calibration should help.
post #10950 of 14509
Been enjoying my Elite since Aug 27th. I am really suprised how little buyers remorse I have. I am simply shocked at the blu-rays, sports, and gams with just a few hours of personal tweaking and help from everyone here with THX adn GAME MODE.

Anyway, so much negativity sometime but this was $5200 well spent for my gorgeous 70" panel. Maybe one day the OLED will be as big and better.

Sent via my Awesome 70" Elite/HTPC i7+GTX580
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