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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 393

post #11761 of 14509
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but without true 4k source material, wouldn't these 4k setslook awful with oour existing cable and satellite providers? If so what is the point of buying such a set?
post #11762 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

And just how will that 120" "retina display" look with our existing cable or satellite providers material? 4k seems like a waste to me right now.

I agree with you, but would you really be spending easily $10,000 plus on a home theater system and be using cable or dish to watch movies? I don't think so. If you spent that much money you would want a physical media such as 4K bluray or 4K media on a hard drive like that on the upcoming 84in. Sony that contains 10 4K films on it's hard drive. Satellite and cable bitrates are entirely to low to really provide a stellar picture on anything unless your provider has a high speed bitrate. My wireless connection is 20 mbps which is in the lower realm of bluray bitrates so streaming isn't bad through my xbox. My blurays all still look much better if watching the same content. Cable and satellite are worried about quantity not quality so it is not unusual too see bitrates at 5mbps or less for movies.

I realize 4K bluray isn't here yet, but it is very much in the works. I don't expect by any means for 4K to totally take over all content. It will be more of a novelty like 3D content.
post #11763 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but without true 4k source material, wouldn't these 4k setslook awful with oour existing cable and satellite providers? If so what is the point of buying such a set?

I don't think they would look awful, but if that is your main source for watching is cable I don't see the point.

When HDTV's first came out in 1997 there was barely any content out either.

Upconversion is upconversion, end of story. I have never seen a dvd upconverted to 1080 that looked even remotely HD. You would need true 4K content of some kind to have any benefit being films with 4K masters which many exist, ESPN for sports or Olympics, Discovery Channel type programs, etc. I am thinking more special event type programming, the Olympics, Royal Wedding, Presidential inauguration or the Married with Children Reunion episode LOL!
post #11764 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

Hello, I am new to this thread, I bought my 60" Sharp Elite a few months ago and I have had a severe problem. When I use Dynamic Picture setting if there is a scene with a lot of shadows I get a SEVERLY inverted image, in other word white becomes black and black becomes white. It happens with every type of input(DVD, TIVO or AppleTV). It seems to happen multiple times per week. I have even seen it crop up yesterday on the latest episode do Elementry in the Standard Picture setting. It is so prevalent that I cringe every time there is a dark or shadow scene. I have had set replaced and it does the same. I have gone to Magnolia dealer and reproduced the effect there. Sharp has sent tech out and I was able to reproduce error for them. Sharp has been able to reproduce condition at their facility. Has anyone run into this issue?

I have followed this thread from the first day and no one has reported any problem remotely like what you describe. If you have had 2 sets with the same problem I would say the problem lies with your setup and not the TV itself.
post #11765 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

...........................
I got to see the 84" 4K Sony in person and while it is nice, it is not nearly the jump that I anticipated it would be. You have to get close to see the difference or have a massive screen. Even 84" was somewhat marginal. I'd say the biggest advantage for 4K will be in projectors. And not even true 4K but upconversion. It will likely be a very long time (if ever) that readily available 4K content is here like it is for HD. But if the upconversion for 4K can get close to true 4K content, then there will be a legitimate market for those projectors. Look how long 3D TV's have been on the market. You cant even buy a high end tv anymore without 3D, yet there is only a very small handfull of movies available.
And the only reason everything is on TV is available in HD now is because of the government mandated switch for networks from analog to digital. If it weren't for that the standard would probably be low definition. HD tv's would still be a niche market. Market forces are the only thing pushing the standard to 4K and I just don't see it happening. Everyone would have to upgrade to 84"+ tvs to even see the difference and most dont even have the room for those size TVs. And a whole new codec would be needed to get a compressed signal for that much data for streaming 4K. They dont even do 1080P yet on cable/satellite.
I would have loved to see the next big push be OLED tv's but that's not happening now because of the massive problems with making large sized OLED panels. So the next gimmick now will be 4K, even though most wont be able to tell the difference and will not be able to take advantage of the potential of 4K content without having a ridiculously large screen.
I agree 100% with the above, especially the parts I've underlined. I think much of the reason for this push for 4K is the same as the 3D push -- it's a new "feature" for which manufacturers can charge a premium.

Look at what's happened to the price of BD players over just the past 3 years. My wife and I just bought a Toshiba BD/DVD player at Costco for around $70. At that price, I did not expect much out of it and thought that I might very well end up returning it, .......... but the little thing works great! It puts an image on the screen that, in most important respects, is equivalent to that of our 3-year-old HTPC for which we paid $1200. Of course the HTPC does far more than the el cheapo Toshiba will ever do, but, again, the image that the latter puts on the screen is simply amazing.

About 4 or 5 years years ago my wife and I went to Costco to buy a new lawnmower. As soon as we walked into the store we were confronted with a 65" Sharp Aquos 1080p fluorescent-lit LCD TV. The price was $15,999. Today we are considering purchasing a 70" 1080p 2D LED LCD display for well under $2400, whose PQ is 90% that of a display that cost three times as much. This march of technology upward and its price downward is nothing short of astonishing.

The question is can "the industry" continue to make money selling $70 BD players and $2K dollar 70" displays? If it can't, it's got to either raise prices or keep coming up with these 3D and 4K gimmicks and all of the associated players, disks, streaming, etc. for which it can charge a premium.

But, as others have already pointed out, on the whole, viewing distances and living room sizes aren't changing that much. To see the benefit of 4K, you're either going to have to sit much closer or get a very much larger display. For example, I am typing this message on a computer whose monitor is a 3-year-old, 32", 1080p, full-LED-array Sharp Aquos TV. As I type, my eyes are about 25" from the center of the screen. As I sit back to just view or surf, they're about 34" from the screen. My wife and I have watched BD movies and OTA HDTV on this display from the same distance and we are perfectly happy with the PQ. Would we notice the difference 4K would make, even from that short viewing distance? Maybe, but certainly not from say 64" -- two times screen diagonal.

We'll be sitting about 12 feet (144") from the upcoming 70" display -- over 2 times screen diagonal. Would/could we appreciate 4K over 2K at that viewing distance? Just like viewing our 32" display from 64", I doubt it. My wife will not have a TV bigger than that in that room, so there will be no 4K display in our TV room.

In our basement we watch BD movies on an RS1-illuminated 120" Dalite Highpower screen from a viewing distance of about 96". High-PQ movies like "Apocalypto" look fantastic from that distance. Others, not so much, and of course the issue with 4K content will be exactly as it was for VHS, DVD and is now for BD. Some content-providers will push the limit of what a particular format can do, but most will not. Some movies will still look like crap, even at 4K.
post #11766 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiguy3 View Post

I think you are mistaken: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=3720002

Yes that's true, but I suspect the overall PQ and bitrate is not BD quality. Add to that the limited number of these 1080p channels and the problem is obvious. Kdog's points were well made since bandwidth is the enemy of even high quality 1080p on virtually any broadcast system, forgetting 60p.

This is why, without a radically new compression/codec standard, I see very little chance for any significant amount of 4K broadcast material in anything even remotely defined as the 'near future'.
post #11767 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but without true 4k source material, wouldn't these 4k setslook awful with oour existing cable and satellite providers? If so what is the point of buying such a set?

It will depend on how well the manufacturer's display can upconvert the 2K material. Many believe you can't get better (or more accurate) images than a pixel to pixel display as exists in current 1920x1080 displays and 2K material. I seem to recall this is why Joe Kane was not impressed with the current 4K implementation. It seems that the 4K material and 4K displays, do not allow for pixel to pixel mapping (they're apparently off by a few pixels, making an up conversion necessary). His wish was to go right to 8K which he felt would be better, and 'cleaner'. This was discussed in a Widescreen Review article several months ago.
post #11768 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

I have followed this thread from the first day and no one has reported any problem remotely like what you describe. If you have had 2 sets with the same problem I would say the problem lies with your setup and not the TV itself.

Thank you for feedback. I also have combed the forums and have not seen it either. The problem was duplicated at Best Buy with their Sharp Elite and AppleTV. It was also reproduced by Sharp Elite tech support so it is independent of my equipment. But again thank you for feedback. Just for reference purposes it is most prominient when there is a dark scene like alley scene with light objects like white bricks. I have seen it on TV shows like Castle, Elementary, Doctor Who, Person of Interest. If you switch to Dynamic and look at TV for a week it will show up a few times. Just FYI. I had switched back to Standard and it came up in a dark scene on Elementary. I have been in process with Sharp for about 2 months and was willing to wait it out if it was limited to Dynamic mode but when it popped up on Standard mode this week that was the last straw. I am in process of returning it and looking at Sony XBR55. Any suggestions for products close to Sharp Elite???
post #11769 of 14509
I got my 70" in a couple of days ago but havent been able to mess with it much because of my work schedule. But one thing I did notice today after watching an episode of Mad Men on Netflix. A lot of times as it changed scenes, about 1/4 seconds would pass and the screen would darken or lighten depending on the scene. Is this a result of auto dimming? I thought the auto dimming was just dimming certain areas of the screen so this is somewhat confusing. It's like if I turned down the brightness instantly about a quarter second into a new scene. It's somewhat annoying and distracting
post #11770 of 14509
I have started to research same topic what comes close to Elite's PQ, I am going through major issues with color uniformity on 3 Elites now and I must say that Sony XBR was on my list, but I spent 3 hours with it in my friends place and even though uncalibrted picture and contrast is very good, there was crispness in Elite that Sony did not deliver. Viewing angles, blacks are very similar. Motion is better on Sony for my taste. However, that crispness is not there on Sony with neither of the settings. Cannot explain why. Perhaps, I will get flamed by Sony buffs but this is just my 2 cents, and take it for whatever it is worth, but I am sticking with Elite until Sharp fails to remove green uniformity issue on my set. Elite is elite...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

Thank you for feedback. I also have combed the forums and have not seen it either. The problem was duplicated at Best Buy with their Sharp Elite and AppleTV. It was also reproduced by Sharp Elite tech support so it is independent of my equipment. But again thank you for feedback. Just for reference purposes it is most prominient when there is a dark scene like alley scene with light objects like white bricks. I have seen it on TV shows like Castle, Elementary, Doctor Who, Person of Interest. If you switch to Dynamic and look at TV for a week it will show up a few times. Just FYI. I had switched back to Standard and it came up in a dark scene on Elementary. I have been in process with Sharp for about 2 months and was willing to wait it out if it was limited to Dynamic mode but when it popped up on Standard mode this week that was the last straw. I am in process of returning it and looking at Sony XBR55. Any suggestions for products close to Sharp Elite???
post #11771 of 14509
I was at Best Buy tonight looking at SonyXBR55 vs Sharp Elite vs Samsung UN60E. I do concur with you that Sony is not as crisp as Sharp Elite. I am also looking at Samsung UN60ES and it is as crisp as Sharp and maybe a hair sharper. Black of course is not as good as Sharp or Sony but of course Sony black is also not as good as Elite either. I very much do appreciate feedback and if there is a set I have missed let me know.BTW I have been reading about this green issue and I have not seen that issue although I have read quite a bit about it in this forum. Strange I have a flashing/ flaring issue that no one seems to comment on and you guys have this Green issue I have not seen in both the units I have had. To be honest it is causing me to raise a flag on Sharp. For $5K I really expect much better. I have owned Fujitsu Plasma and Panasonic Plasma and have had no issues. I spend $5K on a Sharp and I have issue. I also notice a slight settling of tone sometimes when scenes change. It is as if the processor can't handle some scene changes fast enough and the processor is overloaded until it "catches up" and settles. Just my $0.02.
post #11772 of 14509
If your household can manage plasma (meaning everyone is careful to stretch, etc.) then 65VT50 is a set to get now on sale. I reluctantly started to look into plasma but ... my family watches a lot of international 4:3 programming and kids will never remember to stretch, etc. I really liked VT50 blacks and motion was pretty good too. Viewing angles were superb too. At the end of the day if family can manage plasma discipline it is the one to get due to cost and PQ. 2012 Panasonic plasmas have IR issues for sure and not clear if Burn-In is also a problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

I was at Best Buy tonight looking at SonyXBR55 vs Sharp Elite vs Samsung UN60E. I do concur with you that Sony is not as crisp as Sharp Elite. I am also looking at Samsung UN60ES and it is as crisp as Sharp and maybe a hair sharper. Black of course is not as good as Sharp or Sony but of course Sony black is also not as good as Elite either. I very much do appreciate feedback and if there is a set I have missed let me know.BTW I have been reading about this green issue and I have not seen that issue although I have read quite a bit about it in this forum. Strange I have a flashing/ flaring issue that no one seems to comment on and you guys have this Green issue I have not seen in both the units I have had. To be honest it is causing me to raise a flag on Sharp. For $5K I really expect much better. I have owned Fujitsu Plasma and Panasonic Plasma and have had no issues. I spend $5K on a Sharp and I have issue. I also notice a slight settling of tone sometimes when scenes change. It is as if the processor can't handle some scene changes fast enough and the processor is overloaded until it "catches up" and settles. Just my $0.02.
If y
post #11773 of 14509
let me just say, regardless of what some of the recent comments state, if they have an 80 and it even matches the current exceptional PQ of the first gen, I will be in line to buy.

when set up properly, its unmatched by pretty much anything else out there.

No kool aid was consumed prior to this post.
post #11774 of 14509
I've seen the Sony 4k projector ($25,000) on a 128" screen. The sources we watched were up converted from 1080p Blu-ray. I could see no difference between the Sony's picture quality and the previous high end JVC 1080p projector. There was a gap of several months so I guess what I didn't see was a 4k WoW factor.

As for who can see what, there are an amazing number of 1080p HDTV owners who still don't know the difference between a HDTV channel and a SDTV channel. Then there are the folks who sit so far from their displays that there is little chance that they can tell the difference between good SD, HD, and/or 4k.

Add to that cheery list are the masses who think that LCD and LED are two different display technologies. The TV manufacturers will sell 4k as better for everybody, and almost no one will be able to tell the difference in their home unless they take a good look at their check book after shelling out for new TVs, 4k players, and 4k capable AVRs. Thank God for marketing. Where would we be without them and of course HD power cords. wink.gif
post #11775 of 14509
Thanks for those that answered my question on 4k sets. I still think it would be too early to buy a 4K set at this time, as no one knows when a 4K blu ray player will come out, And what has been said about solely using this tv for bluray movies is just crazy talk imo. I bought the elite for the best possible pq in everything I watch. I personally watch more cable and satellite tv than I do the occasional weekend movie. I can't imagine spending a lot of money, and watching a 1080i broadcast of say something like the super bowl on a 4K tv if it just looks worse than the current generation tv's .
Edited by GeneWildersHair - 1/6/13 at 9:33pm
post #11776 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post

If your household can manage plasma (meaning everyone is careful to stretch, etc.) then 65VT50 is a set to get now on sale. I reluctantly started to look into plasma but ... my family watches a lot of international 4:3 programming and kids will never remember to stretch, etc. I really liked VT50 blacks and motion was pretty good too. Viewing angles were superb too. At the end of the day if family can manage plasma discipline it is the one to get due to cost and PQ. 2012 Panasonic plasmas have IR issues for sure and not clear if Burn-In is also a problem.
If y
Thnaks, yes the VT50 is also on m radar and is the only other unit I am looking at
post #11777 of 14509
Sharp at CES, didn't hear any mention of an Elite for 2013.
post #11778 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

We will find out in Summer-Fall of 2013, NOT in a few days at CES. CES means nothing in the end. I know I can sit here and prove myself all day, but my beer is getting cold wink.gif
--How many times have we been promised this and that and yet we are stuck with a no show ?
--Most people can not even see 1080P, so now I think most will care/see 4K ?
--Any 4K content ? I have seen none, maybe on a PC.
LOL, let me tell you a story that effected me to a great degree, as you will see. ( Nice rhyme ) Back in like 1998 I started looking at PC's. I always said when this happens, that happens, or when this is that price I will buy. I waited about 2 years to buy a PC. So, here I am running an internet business. Boy, did I cost myself a bunch of money. Who knows where I would be if I would have pulled the trigger.......

So true, although we are all very glad to see the advancements in picture quality we also need to take this news with a big grain of salt. It's important to remind and emphasize to everyone again that at the moment 4k content is almost non existent, I'm also told the upscaling option to 4k content looks terrible so don't ring the dinner bell quite yet. Don't get me wrong here I'm really looking forward to seeing the next Elite line if this news comes to flourish, let'e just see how this all plays out in the days to come as it's way to soon to know anything for sure yet. Still I understand the excitement here. wink.gif
post #11779 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yes that's true, but I suspect the overall PQ and bitrate is not BD quality. Add to that the limited number of these 1080p channels and the problem is obvious. Kdog's points were well made since bandwidth is the enemy of even high quality 1080p on virtually any broadcast system, forgetting 60p.
This is why, without a radically new compression/codec standard, I see very little chance for any significant amount of 4K broadcast material in anything even remotely defined as the 'near future'.

+100
post #11780 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ Just a note: Actually that comes from my knowledge and trends. We have very little stock and the Elites move well. Even if we had to much stock, the new models will not be out till Summer - Fall 2013. That is a while from now.

Just watched the blogs on the CES Sharp press conference.They published release dates that look like most will be out this spring. Looking forward to your thoughts on the new models. tongue.gif
post #11781 of 14509
What input freqs is for 3D?
Lets put in another way - I know that for good BRay it has to be 24p
what is for 3D BRay movies? the same 24P or double like a 48P?
Does TV extracts 3D deltas and splits to left / right? Or its done by BRay h/w?

I need this to match display output refresh rate of my HTPC with PRO-70X5.

When I play 2D BRay I set refresh to 24 Herz to get the best outcome from TV that "upscale" it to 120 or 240 internally.
For OTA TV and media streaming the refresh of HTPC is set to 60 Herz and the same for gaming.

What's missing for me is what to set for 3D?
I'd like to avoid 3:2 conversion in my HTPC, but output for appropriate to PRO-70X5 refresh rate input.

Thanks.
post #11782 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiguy3 View Post

Just watched the blogs on the CES Sharp press conference.They published release dates that look like most will be out this spring. Looking forward to your thoughts on the new models. tongue.gif

No mention of a new Elite.
post #11783 of 14509
Just looked all over cnet and saw zero mention of new ELITE. Not sure who it was that posted they had that info but once again someone who has claimed to have the inside info was wrong. This happens every year:D
post #11784 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by DYAUSWINTERS View Post

Just looked all over cnet and saw zero mention of new ELITE. Not sure who it was that posted they had that info but once again someone who has claimed to have the inside info was wrong. This happens every year:D

If true...does Sharp continue with the current production? i guess will see.
post #11785 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yes that's true, but I suspect the overall PQ and bitrate is not BD quality. Add to that the limited number of these 1080p channels and the problem is obvious. Kdog's points were well made since bandwidth is the enemy of even high quality 1080p on virtually any broadcast system, forgetting 60p.
This is why, without a radically new compression/codec standard, I see very little chance for any significant amount of 4K broadcast material in anything even remotely defined as the 'near future'.

Just to be clear, the next gen codec is 2x as bandwidth efficient as H.264, so instead of the nominal 4x more bits, you only need 2x the bits to do 4K well.

Now, as to how, DirecTV for example is going to end SD broadcasting completely and with it all the SD MPEG-2 feeds it still has. That frees up much of its bandwidth to keep MPEG-4 HD and allow for some 4K using new codecs (which I believe will be dominated by H.265). That's already a DirecTV plan. I suspect the other cable cos. have something similar in the works.

Anyway, this is still a couple of years from real, but it's going to happen.

Back to those Elites, I suppose they could do new models this fall, but I wonder if they will. The previous generation has not sold much. It seems like effort with minimal return and it's not helping the Sharp brand, which needs the help. Sharp has real problems, failed to deliver 4K last year despite planning on doing so, has no clear plans to do that this year, and is hanging on by a thread... I wonder if flagship TVs that don't carry their brand really make sense given all that.

Perhaps someone who knows more from inside can weigh in. I'll ask at CES, but was lied to so extensively last year (mostly by the Elite folk), I don't expect to learn much useful this year.
post #11786 of 14509
post #11787 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

Sharp at CES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJq762cKXIk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thx for the link Gene, no new news on the next gen Elite though i'm afraid. cool.gif
post #11788 of 14509
Rad, the only next-gen Elite news will come from a true insider, I'm afraid.

I'll surely be able to extract plenty of meaningless promises from the guys on the floor. That was easy to do last year.
post #11789 of 14509
DSC_1333 grey pattern.jpg 1291k .jpg file Folks, my back and forth with Sharp continues on the unit number 3. Sharp has asked to photograph more, I was able to capture better shots. Please take a look and tell me if I am inventing things. This is in THX Movie mode with local dimming on. Somehow I can see all these issues while Sharp engineers cannot. Hope these photos will help them see. If your screens look look similar to minewith Calman Field 50% grey pattern then I will quit bothering everyone. This TV#3 is much better than units #1 and #2 but not normal in my eyes. I am seriously thinking about checking with an eye doctor but then I have to take my wife and 4 kids with me to check them too since they see it as well.

post #11790 of 14509
Finally managed to get a look at the 60 inch Elite today and thought the picture looked very good, even off angle it looked nice. I would be using the TV primarily for watching sports and gaming on a PS3 or XBOX, with the occasional 3D movie perhaps. It would not be used for regular bluray movies, have another set-up for that. Now that hockey is back, that would be my major concern if there is any motion blur during the game. Any comments appreciated.
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