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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 396

post #11851 of 13287
1/9/13 at 3:20pm
I know we aren't permitted to discuss pricing in this thread but could someone PM me with what I should expect to pay for the 70 inch model here in Canada. Our Best Buy stores here don't carry them, no Magnolia, just the regular TV displays. I am in Ontario if that is helpful.
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post #11852 of 13287
1/9/13 at 4:04pm
Anyword from CES about Elite v2?
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post #11853 of 13287
1/9/13 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

Anyword from CES about Elite v2?
I would go back about a dozen posts to find your answer
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post #11854 of 13287
1/9/13 at 6:36pm
I was watching a few episodes of Game of Thrones on Blu Ray. I noticed on quite a few dark scenes, it would lose its contrast badly and the blacks looked purplish gray for a second or so until the processor "caught up" and adjusted the scene. Is this normal?
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post #11855 of 13287
1/9/13 at 6:38pm
No, not normal. Blacks rule in this TV. Maybe in the source? Having said that, what are your IVC and other processing settings?
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post #11856 of 13287
1/9/13 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

No, not normal. Blacks rule in this TV. Maybe in the source? Having said that, what are your IVC and other processing settings?
Even when using IVC, I've never seen my Elite exhibit that type of issue that his is. My blacks stay black. I'm guessing defective set.
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post #11857 of 13287
1/9/13 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

No, not normal. Blacks rule in this TV. Maybe in the source? Having said that, what are your IVC and other processing settings?

I thought it was on local dimming but someone in the household set it to advanced high. That may have been the problem. I'll have to find the optimal settings for the rest. I absolutely hate THX mode so I'm in the minority here. Elite Pure probably were I will try to stay at.
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post #11858 of 13287
1/9/13 at 9:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Sharp said they are coming out with 3- 4K models during the Summer. Vizio also claims to coming out with 4K models including a 60" and a 70". The most likely source for those panels is Sharp. I conclude from that (if Sharp actually delivers) that the 4K models will be the new Elites.

Where did you read, sharp is coming out with 3 -4k models?

I read sharp is coming out with only two 4k models and both will be 60"
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-34451_1-57562520/sharp-purios-about-ultra-hd-tv/

LAS VEGAS--Sharp has announced two new Ultra HD/4K displays at CES with the flagship Purios the first to receive THX 4K Display certification.
The two TVs are the 60-inch Purios now due in summer 2013 and the prototype 60-inch Ultra HD TV.
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post #11859 of 13287
1/10/13 at 4:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

I was watching a few episodes of Game of Thrones on Blu Ray. I noticed on quite a few dark scenes, it would lose its contrast badly and the blacks looked purplish gray for a second or so until the processor "caught up" and adjusted the scene. Is this normal?
YES!YES!YES! This is the EXACT same issue I commented on a few days ago. My setting was Dynamic and it happens every week. I exchanged sets and it still happens. I reproduced the effect at Best Buy and Sharp was able to reproduce effect effect at their facility. It has been elevated to next level Sharp Tech. BTW, it happens on DVD, or Apple TV or TIVO. It also happened on Standard setting this week and flyer 2 months of dealing with this I took it back and got my money back. THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH THE DESIGN!!!!
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post #11860 of 13287
1/10/13 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

Where did you read, sharp is coming out with 3 -4k models?

I read sharp is coming out with only two 4k models and both will be 60"
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-34451_1-57562520/sharp-purios-about-ultra-hd-tv/

LAS VEGAS--Sharp has announced two new Ultra HD/4K displays at CES with the flagship Purios the first to receive THX 4K Display certification.
The two TVs are the 60-inch Purios now due in summer 2013 and the prototype 60-inch Ultra HD TV.

I don't have a link. Read various news articles (Google News-search on sharp as part of CES news) and that is what I remember. Is logical given Sharps 60, 70 and 80" sets.
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post #11861 of 13287
1/10/13 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

YES!YES!YES! This is the EXACT same issue I commented on a few days ago. My setting was Dynamic and it happens every week. I exchanged sets and it still happens. I reproduced the effect at Best Buy and Sharp was able to reproduce effect effect at their facility. It has been elevated to next level Sharp Tech. BTW, it happens on DVD, or Apple TV or TIVO. It also happened on Standard setting this week and flyer 2 months of dealing with this I took it back and got my money back. THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH THE DESIGN!!!!

If it were a design issue other people would have reported it here and given AVS Forum's nature, it would have been discussed/argued over many pages. Search thread for cyan and see how many posts are returned. If they gave you your $ back after 2 months, they concluded you had a defective set.
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post #11862 of 13287
1/10/13 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

If it were a design issue other people would have reported it here and given AVS Forum's nature, it would have been discussed/argued over many pages. Search thread for cyan and see how many posts are returned. If they gave you your $ back after 2 months, they concluded you had a defective set.
I ran my set mostly in Dynamic Mode for the 2 months and it happens on shows like Castle, Person of interest, Elementary etc. you will see it every week if you use Dynamic mode. Sharp sent a tech out and I was able to reproduce it for him and he said he had never seen such a thing before. Also Sharp tech support was able to reproduce it at their facility and it has been elevated to next level tech support. I was also able to reproduce it at the Best Buy as well as on the replacement set they sent me. So it has been reproduced on 4 different sets and it is a design limitation. When I run it on Standard mode you do not see it as often. What I believe is that most people attribute it to some artifact of a scene change when you hit a dark scene and just ignore it. So i switched back to Standard mode, but I was watching Elementary last week and it flared like when I had it in Dynamic mode. It is very interesting in that when the tech was here and we had it on Dynamic mode I could freeze the picture and you could see the set still trying to adjust the picture and it finally settles to correct picture. I believe It is a high contrast issue as noted by why it happens reliably under Dynamic mode In dark scenes that have pictures with lighter colors in them. I believe the processor is overloaded in high contrast scenes and cannot process all necessary information in a timely manner. I have seen the issue so many times I am very sensitive to it, it is not as prevalent in Standard mode but I can see scenes when the processor seems to be at the limit of its ability to correctly process some of the dark scenes and the dark areas almost seem to "breathe" or change contrast a little before they settle. As a closing comment Sharp recommended i use THX mode but I do not like how picture looks and for $5k I should not have to cringe in anticipation when a dark/shadow scene comes on hoping my set holds in there and does not distort image. Just my$0.02.
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post #11863 of 13287
1/10/13 at 8:29am
Has anyone else had the opportunity to watch Dredd on this set ? I watched it last night and it looked like dog poop. So much noise it was distracting. I started in 3D and when I couldn't take it anymore I switched to 2D.
A helpful poster gave this reason in the Dredd thread :

Originally Posted by Rigby Reardon

It's just the way they shot it, using electronic cameras often with little lighting on the set and high ISO settings, which produces a lot of video noise. Make sure to set proper brightness and turn off any image "enhancements" on your display which often exaggerate noise in the picture.

Could my set be that off to where a proper adjustment would have eliminated that noise ? It looked akin to a low res download. And yes, it was definitely the Blu Ray.

Thanks.
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post #11864 of 13287
1/10/13 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

I ran my set mostly in Dynamic Mode for the 2 months and it happens on shows like Castle, Person of interest, Elementary etc. you will see it every week if you use Dynamic mode. Sharp sent a tech out and I was able to reproduce it for him and he said he had never seen such a thing before. Also Sharp tech support was able to reproduce it at their facility and it has been elevated to next level tech support. I was also able to reproduce it at the Best Buy as well as on the replacement set they sent me. So it has been reproduced on 4 different sets and it is a design limitation. When I run it on Standard mode you do not see it as often. What I believe is that most people attribute it to some artifact of a scene change when you hit a dark scene and just ignore it. So i switched back to Standard mode, but I was watching Elementary last week and it flared like when I had it in Dynamic mode. It is very interesting in that when the tech was here and we had it on Dynamic mode I could freeze the picture and you could see the set still trying to adjust the picture and it finally settles to correct picture. I believe It is a high contrast issue as noted by why it happens reliably under Dynamic mode In dark scenes that have pictures with lighter colors in them. I believe the processor is overloaded in high contrast scenes and cannot process all necessary information in a timely manner. I have seen the issue so many times I am very sensitive to it, it is not as prevalent in Standard mode but I can see scenes when the processor seems to be at the limit of its ability to correctly process some of the dark scenes and the dark areas almost seem to "breathe" or change contrast a little before they settle. As a closing comment Sharp recommended i use THX mode but I do not like how picture looks and for $5k I should not have to cringe in anticipation when a dark/shadow scene comes on hoping my set holds in there and does not distort image. Just my$0.02.

If you aren't looking for an accurate picture (using Dynamic mode vs THX) then why own an Elite? You aren't going to find anyone on this board(except maybe Kdog) who uses Dynamic or Pure modes. They make it look like somebody reguritated a garish cartoon all over the screen. My advice would be to get your TV calibrated or use NW's settings. If you dont want to do that then return the Elite and buy a cheap TV as they will all produce and similarily crappy picture as Dynamic mode.
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post #11865 of 13287
1/10/13 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

I ran my set mostly in Dynamic Mode for the 2 months and it happens on shows like Castle, Person of interest, Elementary etc. you will see it every week if you use Dynamic mode. Sharp sent a tech out and I was able to reproduce it for him and he said he had never seen such a thing before. Also Sharp tech support was able to reproduce it at their facility and it has been elevated to next level tech support. I was also able to reproduce it at the Best Buy as well as on the replacement set they sent me. So it has been reproduced on 4 different sets and it is a design limitation. When I run it on Standard mode you do not see it as often. What I believe is that most people attribute it to some artifact of a scene change when you hit a dark scene and just ignore it. So i switched back to Standard mode, but I was watching Elementary last week and it flared like when I had it in Dynamic mode. It is very interesting in that when the tech was here and we had it on Dynamic mode I could freeze the picture and you could see the set still trying to adjust the picture and it finally settles to correct picture. I believe It is a high contrast issue as noted by why it happens reliably under Dynamic mode In dark scenes that have pictures with lighter colors in them. I believe the processor is overloaded in high contrast scenes and cannot process all necessary information in a timely manner. I have seen the issue so many times I am very sensitive to it, it is not as prevalent in Standard mode but I can see scenes when the processor seems to be at the limit of its ability to correctly process some of the dark scenes and the dark areas almost seem to "breathe" or change contrast a little before they settle. As a closing comment Sharp recommended i use THX mode but I do not like how picture looks and for $5k I should not have to cringe in anticipation when a dark/shadow scene comes on hoping my set holds in there and does not distort image. Just my$0.02.

sure sounds like a souped up version of the "pulsing" issue to me. very very simple test for you. turn off ld, and see if it goes away.
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post #11866 of 13287
1/10/13 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

sure sounds like a souped up version of the "pulsing" issue to me. very very simple test for you. turn off ld, and see if it goes away.
Can you expand on which control is ld?
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post #11867 of 13287
1/10/13 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhtatum View Post

If you aren't looking for an accurate picture (using Dynamic mode vs THX) then why own an Elite? You aren't going to find anyone on this board(except maybe Kdog) who uses Dynamic or Pure modes. They make it look like somebody reguritated a garish cartoon all over the screen. My advice would be to get your TV calibrated or use NW's settings. If you dont want to do that then return the Elite and buy a cheap TV as they will all produce and similarily crappy picture as Dynamic mode.
When you buy AV equipment you bring it into your home and try various settings and determine what you are comfortable with. It is a subjective issue. I enjoyed Dynamic mode because of increased sharpness for action movies like Avatar and Transformer. I enjoy the exaggerated effect it adds a certain excitement. So as with listening to music there is a lot of personal subjectiveness that comes into play. With that said I was also happy to go to Standard mode and it is very reasonable for me and a large percentage of users to use Standard mode out of the box. I have had it calibrated and for me it is a little more of a boring image( although it is a technically very accurate image). With all that said I was very happy to use Standard mode, however when the artifact displayed itself in standard mode I naturally became upset. I have been working with this issue for months and have been very patient. The set fails to maintain good picture quality in Standard mode even though it does it much less frequently. I expect as a consumer that if you offer different modes of operation then those modes of operation should work correctly or simply do not offer those modes. I certainly respect the mode you select to view, I understand that using Dynamic or even Standard mode may not be your preferred mode and I respect that because as in the music arena it is subjective and you will tend to what you enjoy most. As a closing remark my last set was a Panny 50" that I let he calibrated and I choose to go with the toned down image and became very comfortable with that and viewed TV for years that way without issue. I was willing to not use Dynamic but when the issue exposed itself in Standard mode I have been pushed too far. Just my personal view:0)
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post #11868 of 13287
1/10/13 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

sure sounds like a souped up version of the "pulsing" issue to me. very very simple test for you. turn off ld, and see if it goes away.
I am sorry you mean Local Dimming I believe. I did experiment with the settings in that area. I thought Local Dimming was one of the more important features because it facilitated the darker blacks and I thought if you turn that one off you lose some one of the advantages of the Elite. I did experiment with it but I do not recall of I reproduced failure mode with local dimming off. I returned the set a couple days ago because I had been working with Best Buy for 2 months and they have been very lenient with their return policy and when the issue got elevated to next level tech support at Sharp I didn't want to be stuck with the set not knowing if I would ever get a solution from Sharp. With all that said I am keeping up with tech support to see if they resolve the issue and I will ask them if taking Local Dimming off would resolve issue. My initial conclusion is that I had been on phone multiple times with Sharp Elite tech support and have had a tech on site and I believe that was one of the options we tried and the issue is still not resolved. However I will raise the issue to them and I VERY MUCH appreciate your advice. This is an excellent group and I wish I would have joined in earlier. Best Regards.
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post #11869 of 13287
1/10/13 at 9:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

Can you expand on which control is ld?

Local Dimming, you want to make sure it's set to ON.

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post #11870 of 13287
1/10/13 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Local Dimming, you want to make sure it's set to ON.

Ah yes, I know Local Dimming was on, but I think in Dynamic Mode it is set to one of the higher settings like Advanced High. So if the question is was Local Dimming on, then definitely yes. You mentioned that you thought it might be a "pulsing" issue and I have read some of the threads and that could be a reasonable assumption. Does Local Dimming Off cure the problem?
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post #11871 of 13287
1/10/13 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

When you buy AV equipment you bring it into your home and try various settings and determine what you are comfortable with. It is a subjective issue. I enjoyed Dynamic mode because of increased sharpness for action movies like Avatar and Transformer. I enjoy the exaggerated effect it adds a certain excitement. So as with listening to music there is a lot of personal subjectiveness that comes into play. With that said I was also happy to go to Standard mode and it is very reasonable for me and a large percentage of users to use Standard mode out of the box. I have had it calibrated and for me it is a little more of a boring image( although it is a technically very accurate image). With all that said I was very happy to use Standard mode, however when the artifact displayed itself in standard mode I naturally became upset. I have been working with this issue for months and have been very patient. The set fails to maintain good picture quality in Standard mode even though it does it much less frequently. I expect as a consumer that if you offer different modes of operation then those modes of operation should work correctly or simply do not offer those modes. I certainly respect the mode you select to view, I understand that using Dynamic or even Standard mode may not be your preferred mode and I respect that because as in the music arena it is subjective and you will tend to what you enjoy most. As a closing remark my last set was a Panny 50" that I let he calibrated and I choose to go with the toned down image and became very comfortable with that and viewed TV for years that way without issue. I was willing to not use Dynamic but when the issue exposed itself in Standard mode I have been pushed too far. Just my personal view:0)

If you are used to watching TV out of the box in one of the (torch) picture modes ie; Standard for example as you have been doing, I can see how you may think a properly calibrated ISF Day or Night picture mode may seem rather dull in comparison. This is an issue that many people have who are not familiar with what a good picture should look like and unfortunately you are not alone and like others have been programed to see a bad picture as something good. However once you get a properly calibrated ISF picture mode up on your Elite you should be able to easily see how out of whack the other picture modes look in comparison. cool.gif
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post #11872 of 13287
1/10/13 at 10:33am
Well stated and I have no issue with you on that. As I stated I fully understand seeing more detail in shadows and true greens in fields is the best/most correct way to view image. I did not use the calibrated setting much after the tech left and the distortion may not occur under a properly calibrated set. I think the set has the best picture quality I have seen. With all that said we should still not experience distortion(possibly flashing) on Standard setting. This type of behavior is unacceptable on out of the box setting, that is just my personal view and I certainly do respect you and I do appreciate your input. Again this is a great group with good feedback.
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post #11873 of 13287
1/10/13 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

I was watching a few episodes of Game of Thrones on Blu Ray. I noticed on quite a few dark scenes, it would lose its contrast badly and the blacks looked purplish gray for a second or so until the processor "caught up" and adjusted the scene. Is this normal?

I've never seen that behavior on my 60".
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post #11874 of 13287
1/10/13 at 10:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

Ah yes, I know Local Dimming was on, but I think in Dynamic Mode it is set to one of the higher settings like Advanced High. So if the question is was Local Dimming on, then definitely yes. You mentioned that you thought it might be a "pulsing" issue and I have read some of the threads and that could be a reasonable assumption. Does Local Dimming Off cure the problem?

I don't recommend ever disabling Local Dimming, your black levels will suffer dramatically. You can use advanced high for daytime viewing and local dimming for nighttime viewing, disabling the IVC altogether may cure your pulsing issue but comes at a huge cost to your black levels and is (not recommended). cool.gif
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post #11875 of 13287
1/10/13 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

As a closing comment Sharp recommended i use THX mode but I do not like how picture looks and for $5k I should not have to cringe in anticipation when a dark/shadow scene comes on hoping my set holds in there and does not distort image. Just my$0.02.

Again, the overwhelming majority of owners here do not see this. Most here are sharp-eyed and would see this if it existed on their display. I actually relish the dark/shadowed scenes since I think this really screams out how good this display is.

However, based on sheer numbers, it's a real stretch to call this a design defect as you can with the 'cyan error'.
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post #11876 of 13287
1/10/13 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

Ah yes, I know Local Dimming was on, but I think in Dynamic Mode it is set to one of the higher settings like Advanced High. So if the question is was Local Dimming on, then definitely yes. You mentioned that you thought it might be a "pulsing" issue and I have read some of the threads and that could be a reasonable assumption. Does Local Dimming Off cure the problem?

Advanced high is a combination of LD on AND some 'intelligent' feature that dynamically adjusts the picture. That may be your problem right there. Most people serious about video will immediately turn off these 'intelligent' controls since, in reality, they're pretty dumb. The dynamic aspect of that setting almost guarantees you'll see some kind of anomaly. I'd strongly suggest you remove the 'intelligent' part of this control and just go with LD on.
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post #11877 of 13287
1/10/13 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikedit View Post

I know we aren't permitted to discuss pricing in this thread but could someone PM me with what I should expect to pay for the 70 inch model here in Canada. Our Best Buy stores here don't carry them, no Magnolia, just the regular TV displays. I am in Ontario if that is helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Again, the overwhelming majority of owners here do not see this. Most here are sharp-eyed and would see this if it existed on their display. I actually relish the dark/shadowed scenes since I think this really screams out how good this display is.

However, based on sheer numbers, it's a real stretch to call this a design defect as you can with the 'cyan error'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Again, the overwhelming majority of owners here do not see this. Most here are sharp-eyed and would see this if it existed on their display. I actually relish the dark/shadowed scenes since I think this really screams out how good this display is.

However, based on sheer numbers, it's a real stretch to call this a design defect as you can with the 'cyan error'.
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post #11878 of 13287
1/10/13 at 11:06am
[quote name="lewisranchmike" url="/t/1358702/official-sharp-elite-pro-70x5-and-60x5-owners-thread/11850#post_22811300
[/quote]I can respect that feedback, perhaps it is not a design error. With that said it still is an uncomfortable aspect for me. I just assumed it was a design issue because under Standard mode the artifact occurs. I very much respect the person that commented that most advanced features are dumb and it might be wise to turn off some of the advanced features for a more pure experience. I also respect the person that said do not turn off Local Dimming because that would compromise black level. Now with all that said I still expect impeccable performance out of the box and I believe I have rightly concluded that there seems to be an issues with bandwidth of processor in adjusting image quick enough so I do not notice this artifact. I was not given feedback from any Sharp Elite tech support person that the modes I was using were unreasonable, although I was advised to use THX. Once again I really appreciate all of the good comments and feedback and I wish I had engaged group earlier when I first purchased set. GREAT GROUP!
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post #11879 of 13287
1/10/13 at 12:13pm
@N3W813 how is your new replacement unit in terms of uniformity? I am getting nowhere with Sharp, they must be end-of-life'ing Elite division because the way they handle my case points to the fact they can care less about Elite consumers. I do not want to bore this thread anymore with details, but if you can let me know how your screen looks, I would love to make a decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Naked eye. Your #3 option has sparked an idea....I think I will take 40 measurements (8x5 grid) from a 50% gray field pattern and see how my set measures throughout the screen. If there is any green/yellow patch, my i1 Pro2 should be able to pick it up. smile.gif
Sure, I'll try to remember to take some pics on my current set (and on my replacement set if I decide to do the swap if no issues arise) and post them tomorrow.
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post #11880 of 13287
1/10/13 at 1:15pm
My opinion on the discussion between lewisranchmike, Ken Ross, and RadTech51...
I have to agree with lewisranchmike on this one. Not everyone who owns a Elite prefer the Movie THX mode or a calibrated set. If lewisranchmike prefers Dynamic mode with IVC set to Adv High, then that's what he should be able to use. The Elite owners paid top dollars to own this specific set and should have the expectation for ALL functions on the set to work properly without issues.

If you purchased a $70K Mercedes and do not normally use cruise control, but you found out it is broken, would you want Mercedes to fix it? wink.gif

I will test my set in Dynamic mode to see if I can reproduce the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post

@N3W813 how is your new replacement unit in terms of uniformity? I am getting nowhere with Sharp, they must be end-of-life'ing Elite division because the way they handle my case points to the fact they can care less about Elite consumers. I do not want to bore this thread anymore with details, but if you can let me know how your screen looks, I would love to make a decision.
dvzzz,
I have some bad news.....yes, I do see very faint blotches of green in my new set on full field gray patterns. frown.gif When I first checked the new set right after unboxing it, I did not see it. I think it was too faint for me to notice. After the delivery people left, I spend more time with the 50% to 109% gray full field patterns and I can SOMETIMES make out the green patches. When watching normal day-to-day material, I can't see the patches at all. But when I tested "The Art of Flight" (snowboard documentary), I can definitely discern the green patches pretty easily with the white snowy backgrounds.

So, what am I going to do at this point??? I think I'll use the set for couple of weeks and see if the patches will go away. After couple of weeks, I will measure screen uniformity using my spectrophotometer. I've owned the Elite for over a year now, any of my options have to deal with Sharp directly.

My suggestion for you is to return the set to BB if you are uncomfortable with the green patches. I definitely would if I still can.

I forgot to check the manufacturing date of my new set yesterday. I will find out and post back.
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