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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 398

post #11911 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

I would also like to add my two cents on something that has been bugging me over the last few pages. I understand that folks have a right to what ever settings they personally like to have on their tv when watching, and I am in no way telling others that if they are not watching this tv is a specific mode they're doing it wrong. BUT, I will say that IMO I cannot personally understand buying such an expensive tv for it's beautifully accurate picture in a well calibrated THX Movie mode, and then just settling for a burn your retina mode like Dynamic!? Again, to each their own, but do understand that with these other modes comes enhancements to the picture, that may look good or even great to some in some scenes, but WILL look completely horrible in others! Not to mention bring additional issues with them such as artifacts, color accuracy, and yes even brightness fluctuations! This goes for any other tv out there! Just because a tv has different modes, doesn't mean they will all perform perfectly. This goes for EVERY tv out there, they will ALL have different strange anomalies when in modes with these so called "enhancements" engaged.
post #11912 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisranchmike View Post

Not wanting to cause any more stir than is here. If you we're in reference to me watching the Elite in Dynamic mode for 2 months please consider. The Sharp has the best picture quality of any set I have owned. Watching it in a mode that a pursist wouldn't watch it in is OK. I love the picture quality and I really liked the way my action movies look in that mode. But with that said I noticed the artifact in STANDARD MODE as well. I choose to switch from Dynamic Mode to Standard Mode and was quite happy to continue to own the Elite and hope Sharp people would address the issue but I believe Sharp Elite is going away and I am not hopeful. I think it should be noted that I am not missing out because I do not watch it in a calibrated mode. No matter what mode I watch it in it is better than the Panny I own and I wanted a better picture and the Sharp produced a better picture than the Panny. What is unacceptable is that having switched from Dynamic Mode to Standard mode I still saw the artifact after only a short time viewing in Standard mode. That is unacceptable and I will not pay $5K for a TV that has effects like that. I do not like THX mode and I have every right to not like that mode, I have every right to watch Standard Mode if I want. I understand all of the arguments about settings and contrast and effects from different settings. With that said it is not acceptable to me to pay $5K for a set and have issue with Standard mode. If THX or calibrated is the only way to watch the set than do not supply other modes and have calibration as a standard service offered with the set.
post #11913 of 14509
That's understood that you like the look of these other modes. The purpose of my post was to point out that these modes, such an s (standard) by default use enhancements that some of you seem to like, and with that I am also pointing out that EVERY tv out there using similar enhancements add strange anomalies to the overall picture. You will not find a perfect tv, no matter what the price. That said, if you find that this set is too expensive because you cannot use these enhanced modes with these strange anomalies, and cannot stand THX mode, then by all means... return the set. You have that right. I don't mean to come off sounding rude, as I wish the TV worked out for you, as it does for me, (I cannot go on enough about this incredible set). I really wish you good luck on whatever set you decide to settle on.
post #11914 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

That's understood that you like the look of these other modes. The purpose of my post was to point out that these modes, such an s (standard) by default use enhancements that some of you seem to like, and with that I am also pointing out that EVERY tv out there using similar enhancements add strange anomalies to the overall picture. You will not find a perfect tv, no matter what the price. That said, if you find that this set is too expensive because you cannot use these enhanced modes with these strange anomalies, and cannot stand THX mode, then by all means... return the set. You have that right. I don't mean to come off sounding rude, as I wish the TV worked out for you, as it does for me, (I cannot go on enough about this incredible set). I really wish you good luck on whatever set you decide to settle on.
Well Said. I wonder if there is some sort of lot dependency. I wish perhaps I had an earlier model that does not seem to have these issues. My first one came before November and my 2nd one came in December. It makes me wonder if there was some parts vendor that they switch too that for the last 2 builds that they did not use previously. Just my $0.02.
post #11915 of 14509
Chris, I have tried to argue that tech was incompetent but Ms. Martinez from Concierge Services at Sharp, told me that all of their repair partners are Sharp factory trained and Sharp trusts their opinion... Enough said:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I would have called a different technician out. In most major areas there is more than one repair center. Sounds like the tech failed here, leading to Sharp not wanting to swap the set. With that said you could have gotten another tech not wanting to do his job.

LED technology along with other technologies have anomalies. Pick your flaw is what it really comes down to. Not saying I like it that way, but it is what it is.

I have a comment to make, however I feel like it would come bight me in the butt at a later point tongue.gif With that said I will leave it for phone conversations.
post #11916 of 14509
I also do not like to watch in THX mode so I suppose I am not a purist. That mode is too much like what you see on a plasma or at the movies and to be honest, I've never been impressed with the image a theater screen produces even as a kid other than it being big. I've always thought THX mode is what real life would look like if you had cateracts or glaucoma tongue.gif
post #11917 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

My Elite isn't perfect, but dammit it's the best tv I've ever owned, or even seen! I am a very happy Elite owner, and I would invite anyone to come by, set their tv next to mine for a comparison. I guarantee that my set would blow it out the water with over all picture quality! I've yet to see another big bright set match the black levels this tv achieves! I wish those of you with these new problematic sets, could own a set without these odd dse, and this new weird fluctuating black issues, because this set is truly unmatched imo. I don't care if I offend anyone in here by championing this gorgeous display, because every time I turn on my tv, I become a bigger and bigger fan of this Elite tv!

I really happy with my set too. Being a Kuro Elite owner and now to this plus bigger screen (60 to 70) is definitely a upgrade. There is no other set out there right now that has the kind of PQ and deep blacks like these Elites. But yes, it's not perfect. On regular viewing, I really don't notice any DSE. But just knowing its there makes me at times look for it especially in bright scenes. Family and friends don't notice it. They all say the picture is stunning. I do too..
post #11918 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

I also do not like to watch in THX mode so I suppose I am not a purist. That mode is too much like what you see on a plasma or at the movies and to be honest, I've never been impressed with the image a theater screen produces even as a kid other than it being big. I've always thought THX mode is what real life would look like if you had cateracts or glaucoma tongue.gif

What it all comes down to is what the program
or film director intended for us to see, and all their material is played back on monitors that are calibrated to 6500K. They make all their adjustments to the picture based on that standard 6500K monitor. This is television, and film, it is NOT meant to look like anything else. Again tho, to each their own, people can watch their sets however they want.
Edited by GeneWildersHair - 1/12/13 at 3:44pm
post #11919 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

What it all comes down to is what the program
or film director intended for us to see,

I partially agree with this. Like in the movie "O Brother Where Art Thou" it was filmed with a brown filter to give it a 1930's feel. Or in the movie 300 a lot of scenes were somewhat pixelated to try and give it a graphic novel feel. But I think the vast majority of movies are filmed in a way that is just a limitation of a century old technology. It's very possible a lot of film directors would like to portray a look closer to the Elite dynamic setting and full motion interpolation but can't. Peter Jackson's move to film The Hobbit in 48FPS is probably close to what I am describing. But Jackson has basically unlimited funding to do what he wants in comparison to your average film director.
Edited by kdog750 - 1/12/13 at 9:41pm
post #11920 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post

Chris, I have tried to argue that tech was incompetent but Ms. Martinez from Concierge Services at Sharp, told me that all of their repair partners are Sharp factory trained and Sharp trusts their opinion... Enough said:)

I'm not bashing Sharp but after losing 5.6 billion dollars, the last thing those reps are worried about is anyones DSE on their Elite. They are likely a lot busier putting out resumes to get another job lined up before the axe falls. I hope they make it but if I was an employee there I would realize the writing is on the wall and would be doing the bare minimum while trying to secure another job.
post #11921 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Sharp in in control of Elite. If you read the Sharp threads from the last seven years, it is standard issue that if people see anomalies to report them to Sharp. They will come out and see the issue and swap the set. Many times they will offer a full refund too as option.

OK. So you are basically at the mercy of Sharp. If YOU see issues (like green bands) and they don't you are a screwed. Sounds like until we confirm there is not a bad batch our there you have to buy local. I just could not risk having the TV show up with issues and then hoping Sharp agrees. eek.gif

-Brian
post #11922 of 14509
One can only learn from the past correct ? I know people who complained about Sharp edge lit panels and where paid back in checks the first go around.

--- It may seem that ever panel made has an issue, this always seems to be the case on AVS on ever different panels that comes out. Been on AVS for some time now. I can easily say, that things do not always appear as they seem. This statement has proved itself every single time on AVS. I guess there is always the chance of a first though.........
post #11923 of 14509
I calibrated 3 70" Elites last week. All 3 had very nice grayscale and gamma, 2 had less than linear color tracking as expected, and the 3rd had something wrong with it and I'll probably recommend replacing it. The CMS required huge inputs and it still couldn't get right. If you're curious if they were in the same house the answer is yes. I have to go back in there next week sometime to calibrate a yet to be installed VT50 so I'll reset the Elite and hope for a better response.
post #11924 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

My Roku is going straight to the TV. Watching Mad Men on Netflix was the first time I noticed it. Then I watched the entire season of Game of Thrones on my PS3 was when I saw a lot of the blacks turning purplish gray(only on advanced high). I wanted to thoroughly test it out with game of thrones because there were so many deep blacks. That is the 4th time I've watched G.O.T using those blu rays. 2 of the times were on different LCD tv's and once was on a projector. None of those other mediums demonstrated the artifacts I observed with the Elite. The PS3 was also directly to the TV and not through a receiver or darbee.

Sounds like you do have something very wrong with your Elite or setup, I've watched Game of Thrones many times on my Elite and I have never seen anything like what you have described here in fact just the opposite. I have even posted screen shots from my Elite on that specific blu-ray disc series and I would have seen something wrong if their was something going on. cool.gif
post #11925 of 14509
Agree with Rad, sounds like something's not right with your panel or your feeds are bad. Why not try and stream Mad Men straight to your ELITE using the APP (rule out the Roku)? I've watched all the season's on my ELITE using the Netflix app and although the picture could be better (blu-ray) I've never seen anything alarming. GOT looks so good on the ELITE, can't wait for it to start up again.....winter is coming!
post #11926 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

I partially agree with this. Like in the movie "O Brother Where Art Thou" it was filmed with a brown filter to give it a 1930's feel. Or in the movie 300 a lot of scenes were somewhat pixelated to try and give it a graphic novel feel. But I think the vast majority of movies are filmed in a way that is just a limitation of a century old technology. It's very possible a lot of film directors would like to portray a look closer to the Elite dynamic setting and full motion interpolation but can't. Peter Jackson's move to film The Hobbit in 48FPS is probably close to what I am describing. But Jackson has basically unlimited funding to do what he wants in comparison to your average film director.

There has to be a standard in place, when you get your Elite calibrated you are doing it because you wish to see the movie accurately and the way the director has intended for you to see it. The directors have full control of their movie so don't be fooled, if they wish to make a film looks like it was shot in dynamic mode they could do it. However once you start viewing movies in an inaccurate picture modes like Standard mode you are not viewing the move anywhere close to the way the director has intended for you to see it. So those movies like mentioned like 300 or "O Brother Where Art Thou'' are not going to look all out of whack, this is the sole reason for calibration to get your picture as accurate as possible so when the director uses a filter to create that warm moment scene or that cold ice scene it looks correct and not over exaggerated or just plain wrong.
post #11927 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

There has to be a standard in place, when you get your Elite calibrated you are doing it because you wish to see the movie accurately and the way the director has intended for you to see it. The directors have full control of their movie so don't be fooled, if they wish to make a film looks like it was shot in dynamic mode they could do it. However once you start viewing movies in an inaccurate picture modes like Standard mode you are not viewing the move anywhere close to the way the director has intended for you to see it. So those movies like mentioned like 300 or "O Brother Where Art Thou'' are not going to look all out of whack, this is the sole reason for calibration to get your picture as accurate as possible so when the director uses a filter to create that warm moment scene or that cold ice scene it looks correct and not over exaggerated or just plain wrong.
Exactly Rad. He also mentioned the Hobbit. While it is true that it looks different, it isn't because it's not using the Industry standard of 6500k, rather its the extra frames added. While it does give you that"soap opera effect", it is still using the industry standard.
post #11928 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

Exactly Rad. He also mentioned the Hobbit. While it is true that it looks different, it isn't because it's not using the Industry standard of 6500k, rather its the extra frames added. While it does give you that"soap opera effect", it is still using the industry standard.

Peter Jackson and James Cameron are experimenting with 48 and 60 frames per second as compared to the traditional 24 frames per second. It has yet to be determined if the new frame rate will be successful, changing something like this quite difficult because were all so used to the standard 24 frames when watching a movie and our brain tells us anything else just looks wrong. It's very difficult to do but I think what might make this new frame rate work or be successful is if the directors start to adapt or change the way they direct movies when using this new frame rate. It has to look acceptable in a way our brain accepts it and where it complements the scene they're trying to direct but yet is different in a good way not a bad way. cool.gif
post #11929 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I calibrated 3 70" Elites last week. All 3 had very nice grayscale and gamma, 2 had less than linear color tracking as expected, and the 3rd had something wrong with it and I'll probably recommend replacing it. The CMS required huge inputs and it still couldn't get right. If you're curious if they were in the same house the answer is yes. I have to go back in there next week sometime to calibrate a yet to be installed VT50 so I'll reset the Elite and hope for a better response.

You happen to know the build dates of those Elites?
post #11930 of 14509
Buzzard767,
If you don't mind, I'm curious as to the details of the CMS issue you experienced with the 3rd set. smile.gif Also, do you know the manufacturing dates of the 3 sets? And do they have screen uniformity issues when viewing 100% field gray patterns?
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I calibrated 3 70" Elites last week. All 3 had very nice grayscale and gamma, 2 had less than linear color tracking as expected, and the 3rd had something wrong with it and I'll probably recommend replacing it. The CMS required huge inputs and it still couldn't get right. If you're curious if they were in the same house the answer is yes. I have to go back in there next week sometime to calibrate a yet to be installed VT50 so I'll reset the Elite and hope for a better response.



I calibrated my new replacement Elite last Friday. Out of the box, the default greyscale readings are MUCH better than the defaults of my old set (pics below). After calibrating the greyscale, I input the same calibrated CMS settings I used for my old set. Although I had to make very small changes, the CMS settings remained pretty much the same as my old set.

After viewing various content over the past weekend, I've got to say that my new set has much better color balance. Colors, especially skin tones, look even more natural and pleasing. Even with the slight green patches issue only visible on an all grey/white image, I prefer my new set over my old set. smile.gif

Old Elite default greyscale reading of ISF Night mode



New Elite default greyscale reading of ISF Night mode

Edited by N3W813 - 1/14/13 at 11:53am
post #11931 of 14509
Hey Buzzard - were you calibrating the ISF modes or the THX Movie mode? When you say non-linear color tracking, does that mean you were not able to calibrate those 2 TVs to the standard, or that you were able to get them to standard but with greater effort? In the end, were you pleased with the calibration of the colors and color performance of the 2 Elites?

Thanks,
JD

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I calibrated 3 70" Elites last week. All 3 had very nice grayscale and gamma, 2 had less than linear color tracking as expected, and the 3rd had something wrong with it and I'll probably recommend replacing it. The CMS required huge inputs and it still couldn't get right. If you're curious if they were in the same house the answer is yes. I have to go back in there next week sometime to calibrate a yet to be installed VT50 so I'll reset the Elite and hope for a better response.
post #11932 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Hey Buzzard - were you calibrating the ISF modes or the THX Movie mode? When you say non-linear color tracking, does that mean you were not able to calibrate those 2 TVs to the standard, or that you were able to get them to standard but with greater effort? In the end, were you pleased with the calibration of the colors and color performance of the 2 Elites?

Thanks,
JD

Here are default color gamut readings showing Elite's non-linear color tracking. The chart shows the 25%-step saturation sweep readings of the color gamut at 75% stimulus. As you can see, 25-75% points are mostly undersaturated while 100% is oversaturated. As for cyan, you can clearly see issue Elites have with cyan, the hue is way off from 25-75%. Therefore, there is no way to get all points close to their respective targets. The only thing to do here is to pick a point to calibrate to and at the same time try to minimize the average errors. For me, I choose to calibrate the Elite using the 75% saturation points as that gets the 25%-75% range closer to their targets, ignoring the errors at 90%+.

post #11933 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

Agree with Rad, sounds like something's not right with your panel or your feeds are bad. Why not try and stream Mad Men straight to your ELITE using the APP (rule out the Roku)? I've watched all the season's on my ELITE using the Netflix app and although the picture could be better (blu-ray) I've never seen anything alarming. GOT looks so good on the ELITE, can't wait for it to start up again.....winter is coming!

Well now I can't get it to flicker at all. The brightness and contrast are staying constant from scene to scene. I have the same settings now as I did when I started. It sounds like an intermittent problem though and I'm not so sure I'm interested in waiting until it eventually shows back up again. Calling a tech out at a later date only for the problem not to show itself would also kill any chance they would take me seriously.
post #11934 of 14509
I honestly can't remember if I have seen this problem. I finally started streaming Netflix. I hooked up digital audio out to my amp, but I can only get stereo out, not Dolby digital. All I can get from the optical is stereo. What am I doing wrong? By the way, I have had no troubles at all with my wonderfully calibrated 70".
post #11935 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelo2 View Post

You happen to know the build dates of those Elites?

No. They were all on walls. I do know that they, along with 4 VT50s, were purchased from BB last August.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Buzzard767,
If you don't mind, I'm curious as to the details of the CMS issue you experienced with the 3rd set. And do they have screen uniformity issues when viewing 100% field gray patterns?

Not much to say except it took extreme settings changes to obtain minimal results. Uniformity was okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Hey Buzzard - were you calibrating the ISF modes or the THX Movie mode? When you say non-linear color tracking, does that mean you were not able to calibrate those 2 TVs to the standard, or that you were able to get them to standard but with greater effort? In the end, were you pleased with the calibration of the colors and color performance of the 2 Elites?

ISF with ControlCal. Tracking was not so good calibrating 100% saturation and it's the reason I nearly always calibrate at 75% sat now that we have the ability to do so. Cyan was way off and I'm looking forward to getting the hours needed with an Elite to do a LightSpace LUT and see if those errors can be eliminated.
post #11936 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Here are default color gamut readings showing Elite's non-linear color tracking. The chart shows the 25%-step saturation sweep readings of the color gamut at 75% stimulus. As you can see, 25-75% points are mostly undersaturated while 100% is oversaturated. As for cyan, you can clearly see issue Elites have with cyan, the hue is way off from 25-75%. Therefore, there is no way to get all points close to their respective targets. The only thing to do here is to pick a point to calibrate to and at the same time try to minimize the average errors. For me, I choose to calibrate the Elite using the 75% saturation points as that gets the 25%-75% range closer to their targets, ignoring the errors at 90%+.


I'm a little confused.

Whether you calibrated at 75% or 100% saturation, wouldn't one or the other of those be on target?
post #11937 of 14509
Hi All -

Does anyone know if it's OK to use a laser pointer on a LCD TV?

I'm having a bunch of family over soon to look at some pictures (my Dad just converted a whole bunch of old slides to digital files) and it would be helpful to use the pointer for those inevitable "Who the heck is that?" questions.

Obviously, if there's any doubt at all I'm not going to point a laser at my Elite TV with a $9k MSRP!

Thanks,
JD
post #11938 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Hi All -

Does anyone know if it's OK to use a laser pointer on a LCD TV?

I'm having a bunch of family over soon to look at some pictures (my Dad just converted a whole bunch of old slides to digital files) and it would be helpful to use the pointer for those inevitable "Who the heck is that?" questions.

Obviously, if there's any doubt at all I'm not going to point a laser at my Elite TV with a $9k MSRP!

Thanks,
JD

I wouldn't.
post #11939 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I'm a little confused.

Whether you calibrated at 75% or 100% saturation, wouldn't one or the other of those be on target?
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Here are default color gamut readings showing Elite's non-linear color tracking.
wink.gif

The chart shows the saturation sweep of the color gamut using Elite's default settings, not calibrated settings. I couldn't remember what mode this was in; it may be either Movie THX or ISF Night.

Here is a calibrated (using 75%) saturation sweep chart of one of my previous calibrations on ISF Night mode. smile.gif

post #11940 of 14509
I was just about to get one of these sets but these threads have managed to freak me out. I think I will go with the panny ZT60 instead.
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