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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 406

post #12151 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcole1224 View Post


I've seen open-box 60's (with full warranty) at my local Best Buy for $2900.
Your cousin might check that route.
If I saw a unit for that price, I would buy it wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surge View Post


Now do I spend $700 on Best Buy's warranty or go with Electronicwarranty.com for $232. Seems easier to go with BB but a lot more expensive.

Thanks, Jon
.
I would join Costco and get their warranty. Also there are plenty of after market warranties out there offered, you do not need to buy a TV there. Mack, Repair Master, and square trade. A few years back our government regulated the warranty companies, the warranty companies must back each warranty with insurance. One would need two companies to fail now to not have coverage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Quick question for you guys. My cousin is looking at a new 60" that is "new" but does not come in original box. Seller is NOT authorized ELITE seller. So my question is....Is it worth it? He is getting it about 20% less than online deals. Im wondering if warranty still applies? That was my concern for him. Thoughts??? Thanks.
First off we do not have enough info. I can say if he gets no receipt from a legitimate business there is no warranty ever, no proof of purchase, no warranty. If a price is to good to be true, it probably is not a good find in "most" cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PalJoey View Post

Hopefully dvzzz didn't clean them all out and left me some 70" sets here in Chicago. smile.gif
There are a bunch of open box units there for sure, maybe you can snag one cheap.........
.
Edited by Cleveland Plasma - 1/21/13 at 5:12pm
post #12152 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

If I saw a unit for that price, I would buy it wink.gif
I would join Costco and get their warranty. Also there are plenty of after market warranties out there offered, you do not need to buy a TV there. Mack, Repair Master, and square trade. A few years back our government regulated the warranty companies, the warranty companies must back each warranty with insurance. One would need two companies to fail now to not have coverage.

Missed that your price was under $3000 which qualifies it for Square Trade. Hear great things about it and was going to give it a whirl but my purchase price was too much to get covered.
post #12153 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Granted were talking a 2800 dollar set vs 5-7 Thousand dollar sets, but it appears the Elite series is not the only affected with sharps quality control.. I got my second LE847U today and have pretty bad DSE as well as some sort of backlight/screen uniformity issue that is affecting the picture. I will go through as many sets as it takes to get a proper set.

To be honest by the time I'm done with sharp, they probably would save some money just sending me an Elite, I think I'd be okay with a few of the issues I've seen if it was a free upgrade rolleyes.gif Wishfull thinking.

In case any of you are curious, here is the post http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397140/official-sharp-aquos-lc-60le847u-lc-70le847u-owners-thread/1980#post_22860470

Figured I would just post to show that its not just you guys getting the shaft, appears all of sharps QC efforts are crap lately.

Wow! I'm beginning to think The plant in Mexico is mixed up with the cartel.biggrin.gif
post #12154 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by PalJoey View Post

Missed that your price was under $3000 which qualifies it for Square Trade. Hear great things about it and was going to give it a whirl but my purchase price was too much to get covered.
Mack and Repair Master then.
post #12155 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

Well I've cancelled my order on the Elite 70" and switched it over to a Samsung 75ES9000. The salesperson at the shop I was purchasing from charged me only a small increase after much haggling and conferencing with the bosses (him with the store owner, me with the missus) I spent a good bit of time in between him conferencing with his boss and me conferencing with the wife, going back and forth between the Elite and ES9000 trying to find something, anything that would sway me one way or the other on either set. He had told me that had received no complaints from any of his customers about the quality or PQ on the Elites, but did agree that I was more knowledgeable than most of his customers and probably in the upper 10% as far as my expectations of overall quality are concerned. After going back and forth for at least 20-25 minutes, I can say that I do think that the Elite PQ is marginally better than the ES9000, but I was kind of surprised at close they were. My wife really liked all the hoo-a-ma-ha on the Samsung I will likely never use (hope I'm not offending anyone, but really, who wants to talk to their tv ?) as well as liking the extra few inches, and all I was after was the best image, but after all the recent issues with the Nov. 2012 builds, and being told they are being discontinued I have opted not to ride that roller coaster. I had previously purchased, had calibrated, and ultimately returned a Sharp 80LE844 (the 80" Quattron 3D model), so I am not eager to go through the whole unboxing, setting up, calibrating, and then reboxing and returning such a large set again.

I really appreciate the posts and patience of those who have helped provide the information on this forum (Dvzzz, you must have the patience of a monk or a saint or something like that). I do really like the PQ, and were it not for my previous return, and my wife liking all the bells and whistles on the ES9000, I might have been willing to travel a little ways down that road, but my confidence is not there that it would end up in a happy place (I am Canadian, hockey is back, I watched 9 hours of it on Saturday, dealing with artifacts or issues would not be cool). Thanks all.

I would say either way your taking a chance. I have read about some issues here on avs with the 75ES9000. Not to mention it's not in the same class as the ELITE as far as blacks go. I think if you read about some of the issues that plague samsungs edge lit sets you would have chose differently. Just my opinion, although I didn't have the wife in my ear helping me make the decision which I am sure made the difference. biggrin.gif When both of these sets are calibrated to there best the ELITES pq blows the samsungs away so I would have to disagree with the statement "I do think that the Elite PQ is marginally better" because in all honesty there not even close. On another note I do hope you are happy with your set cause in the end that's all that matters. I really feel bad for those that can not enjoy this set the way I have for over a year now. Damn Slimer! WHO YA GONNA CALL?!! eek.gif
post #12156 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

If I saw a unit for that price, I would buy it wink.gif
First off we do not have enough info. I can say if he gets no receipt from a legitimate business there is no warranty ever, no proof of purchase, no warranty. If a price is to good to be true, it probably is not a good find in "most" cases.
.

I would buy one at that price too! Lol...he is getting a receipt, he called elite, they said it doesn't have to come from an authorized seller, he just needs a receipt, and they want sn to verify its not a refurb.
post #12157 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by DYAUSWINTERS View Post

I would say either way your taking a chance. I have read about some issues here on avs with the 75ES9000. Not to mention it's not in the same class as the ELITE as far as blacks go. I think if you read about some of the issues that plague samsungs edge lit sets you would have chose differently. Just my opinion, although I didn't have the wife in my ear helping me make the decision which I am sure made the difference. biggrin.gif When both of these sets are calibrated to there best the ELITES pq blows the samsungs away so I would have to disagree with the statement "I do think that the Elite PQ is marginally better" because in all honesty there not even close. On another note I do hope you are happy with your set cause in the end that's all that matters. I really feel bad for those that can not enjoy this set the way I have for over a year now. Damn Slimer! WHO YA GONNA CALL?!! eek.gif

on side note - when I showed in BB to my wife Elite 70" and Samsung 75 - answer was simple - "Samsung looks better, Elite is ugly box".
post #12158 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikek753 View Post

on side note - when I showed in BB to my wife Elite 70" and Samsung 75 - answer was simple - "Samsung looks better, Elite is ugly box".

Haha to bad she didn't pay more attention to what was inside that ugly box. Plus I have never been a fan of silver bezels no matter how slim. But my wife sure does like em too!
post #12159 of 14509
honestly, I spent at least 20-25 minutes going back and forth between the Elite and the ES9000, and I won't say that if you measured that the Elite wasn't a hair darker, but nothing that going back and forth between the two sets that stands out. The processing also seemed MARGINALLY better, but the Elite was on dedicated Bluray player and the ES9000 was on a feed off a splitter. I'm not a fanboy, or have any preference for either brand, my last set was Panasonic 55GT30, but I can say with 100% confidence that anybody who claims one is superior to the other is not being completely objective. I ordered and paid in full for the Elite on friday, and today when I went back today to check out the ES9000 as an alternative should there be an issue with the Elite I was trying very very hard to find something, anything that would tip the balance one way or the other. I put on pure black screen looking for flashlighting, colour boxes looking for blooming, I put on Panny demo disk with some sort of spirograph pattern looking for line -bleed, I put up test patterns....I had the remote for both sets and checked the different modes between the sets (THX on the Elite vs Movie on the Sammy, Pure on the Elite vs Natural on the Sammy) like I said, anyone who proclaims one being superior to the other really isn't being fair to either. With calibration I'm sure the differences would be even less.

I have been on the ES9000 owner thread for last hour and there is only 6 pages, seeing a few complaints regarding clouding, but its certainly no more complaints than any other tv. There is always a few outliers in the QC department as far as defective sets go. Reading reviews on amazon, the biggest complaint seems to be about cost. People have said the picture isn't worth the 10K asking price. I don't see anything out of the ordinary as far as there being disproportionate numbers of any one defect that would lead me to think there were any design or manufacturing concerns. When comparing the worst case as far as defective sets by one customer, Mata7 on the ES9000 thread went through less sets than Dvzzz ( 4 vs 6) and the 4 th was perfect. So I wouldn't say that there were any more issues reported than the Elite has had.
Edited by pred1973 - 1/21/13 at 7:07pm
post #12160 of 14509
Isn't the standard warranty that comes with the Elite 2 years? When I asked Best Buy about their warranty, they said it isn't added to the standard warranty, it runs concurrently. That makes it kind of a waste of money, no?
post #12161 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

honestly, I spent at least 20-25 minutes going back and forth between the Elite and the ES9000, and I won't say that if you measured that the Elite wasn't a hair darker, but nothing that going back and forth between the two sets that stands out. The processing also seemed MARGINALLY better, but the Elite was on dedicated Bluray player and the ES9000 was on a feed off a splitter. I'm not a fanboy, or have any preference for either brand, my last set was Panasonic 55GT30, but I can say with 100% confidence that anybody who claims one is superior to the other is not being completely objective. I ordered and paid in full for the Elite on friday, and today when I went back today to check out the ES9000 as an alternative should there be an issue with the Elite I was trying very very hard to find something, anything that would tip the balance one way or the other. I put on pure black screen looking for flashlighting, colour boxes looking for blooming, I put on Panny demo disk with some sort of spirograph pattern looking for line -bleed, I put up test patterns....I had the remote for both sets and checked the different modes between the sets (THX on the Elite vs Movie on the Sammy, Pure on the Elite vs Natural on the Sammy) like I said, anyone who proclaims one being superior to the other really isn't being fair to either. With calibration I'm sure the differences would be even less.

What thread have you seen on AVS listing the problems ? Because I have been on the ES9000 owner thread for last hour and there is only 6 pages, and not one complaint regarding quality, and even reading reviews on amazon, the only valid complaint is about cost. People have said the picture isn't worth the 10K asking price but I have yet to see a single complaint regarding PQ.

Yeah someone posted on this thread that they switched out there 75ES9000 for the ELITE actually and went on to call it garbage (not my words as I have only seen the samsung in my local BB and did not think it was "garbage" but I could easily see the difference in blacks). I am not sure what page it was but would guess it was between 6 and 8 weeks ago. Don't take my word for it though just watch the last HDTV shootout where the contrast of the samsung edge lit LED was somewhere in the 3 or 4,000:1 ratio while the ELITE blew away all the competition at 15,000:1. Those numbers aren't exact but very close to what was actually measured by Kevin Miller and all other calibrators present at the shootout. Now I am sure you might say something like the 75es9000 is a whole new different model but the facts are that no edge lit set ever made comes close to these measurements of the ELITE and it's contrast it's just part of the tech (the difference of which is easily viewable especially in a dark room) . That is why true local dimming sets are so sought after by videophiles and the ELITE even more so due to the fact it has virtually zero blooming. Like I said though don't take my word for it just ask some of the long time members here and watch the HDTV shootouts held by Value Electronics and I am sure you will get a more clear view on the whole topic. If you care enough that is.

Fact is most people do not care about these differences and often go to places like BB to compare tvs which is probably the worst thing to do if your interested in pq at all. This is in my experience. They have great customer service but are not trained to know the facts on every set and it's tech. Also there ambient light and torch modes kill most sets right off the bat. I am not saying in any way this was the case with you just my experience. And last but not least all that I said about blacks and contrast was based on measurements taken by professionals at the shootout I am not trying to say your set is terrible or bad at all just that according to what I have seen and read samsungs edge lit sets are not in the same class. But unless anyone on this thread has any info I don't or heard something new I haven't, the ELITE still has no competition in the LED/LCD department.
post #12162 of 14509
Sorry I got the last couple posts mixed up
post #12163 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad10ad View Post

I had the privilege of having my 60” calibrated last weekend by Kevin Miller (Monitorman at AVS).
Thanks for your calibration report. I've included a link to it in the flat panel (post #2) lists that are linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.
post #12164 of 14509
DYAUSWINTERS

I was not checking these in a BB, I live in a city of about a million people and there is only one shop that even carries the Elite. It is an extremely high end shop. They won't even carry the ST model of the panasonics, the lowest model set in the shop is a 60GT50. I have also followed the VE shootout for at least a few years, and sorry but the VT50 beat the Elite in the last shootout, and it barely beat out the VT30 the year before that. The Elite has not had any improvement since then, and now there are the VT60 and ZT60 that are better than the previous model years. The ES9000 was NOT included in that shootout either so we will have to see if the Elite even makes the shootout this year and see where that comparison lands. The Elite I was comparing to the ES9000 was in a preferential location in the shop in sort of an alcove with no direct lighting anywhere near it, so the fact that on the test patterns showing the shades of black were indistinguishable from one set to the other speaks volumes, especially as I've said, I had the remotes and had set both sets to comparable modes (THX on the Elite, Movie on the ES, Pure on the Elite, Natural on the ES) with comparable settings, meaning that one did not have lighting, brightness or contrast set proportionately different than the other, ie. one was not turned down and one turned up.

I am not trying to be insulting but you are basing your opinion off exactly what you said invalidates an opinion, which is that you seen the ES9000 in BB, where who knows what mode or what the settings were that you are comparing the Elite to. I spent time TODAY, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...I had already bought the Elite, I would not have switched my order to the ES9000 if there was any indication that the Elite was superior. The black levels were virtually indistinguishable between them. From a technological standpoint, I do understand that a full-array, local dimmed set has an advantage, but whatever voodoo they used on the ES9000 makes that technological advantage nearly imperceptible.

Here is a review that also makes a statement about just how good the blacks are....
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-es9000-hdtv-led-series-9,18218.html

and in particular this quote from that review

"What struck us most strongly about the ES9000 is not its size, but rather its ability to reproduce deep blacks. Most home theater aficionados lean towards plasma displays for black levels, but Samsung was especially eager to show off the ES9000's performance in a completely pitch black room.

A demo reel showed off impressive blacks against vibrant colours, but it wasn't until we moved onto The Dark Knight that we were wowed. It's hard to judge from the photos we snapped at the demo, but they were the best blacks we've seen from an LED LCD HDTV."



This is not any bash on the Elite, and it was the one I initially bought, but when you compare the two objectively, color, motion, black level are so evenly matched that unless there is something that makes one better for calibration I think that they would be even closer post calibration (given that that the closer you move to an ideal the less variance there is). Thats when the details come into play, the ES has better web functionality, built in camera, 5 more inches, none of those things factored into my opinion but certainly did my wife's. Even though the bezel on both sets are completely different, they both have the same goal... to disappear during viewing, one by being matte black, the other by being super thin, so I think that if you watch your set in a darkened room as I do its non-factor either way. If it was going in a room with lots of ambient light, well, I might have had to tell my wife she was wrong on what one she thought was better in that department LOL.

Both are excellent, excellent sets, and 99.9% of people would be lucky to have either one, I am sorry but I just cannot agree that one is clearly superior to the other in terms of overall PQ.
Edited by pred1973 - 1/21/13 at 10:13pm
post #12165 of 14509
Ok I am new hear and need have been reading all the post so I have a question. I have a chance to buy a Elite pro-70xfd that is used and I can't figure out if it a good panel or a bad one. It is 6 months old and about 1700 hours on it I don't see any thing wrong with it when I look at it. I think it is a good price at 4600.00 but don't know if that it a lot of hours or worth it from what I have been reading. So I need some advise from people who own one now. I have been wanting to pull the trigger but am not sure with all I have been reading. The only other one I am looking at is the vt Panasonic but the elite seems to keep pulling me back in. I have a pro950hd and think it is as good as that in many ways. I have two units to chose from and know the model numbers on both so which ones have been having the problems is what I want to know. Also is 1700 hours a lot of time and is that a good price. I know it is a few questions but also some advise would be good from you guys. Thanks.
post #12166 of 14509
1700 hours in 6 months means that set was on about 10 hours a day..EVERYDAY. 1700 divided by 6 (months) = 283 hours a month, divided by 4 (weeks in a month) = 70.83 hours a week divided by 7 (days in a week) = 10.1 a day. I don't think that itself should be a concern, but personally I would be wondering why so many hours per day every day. Was this a display/floor model ? From my understanding and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will answer, but I think there is lots of life left in that set. My understanding is that the LED's don't lose any brightness for about 40,000 hours, and even after that it just means re-calibrating for that shift, because as they dim it changes the intensity of the colors, and that they can last up to 100,000 hours. Honestly I would be more concerned about warranty issues just in case there was a problems in the future, $4600 is a substantial chunk of cash for most people, and if there is no warranty then you are either paying for repair out of pocket or are out the total amount if it is unrepairable.
post #12167 of 14509
You should really come to the store near me, but seriously, actually I was told that last 4 units were asked to be brought back to Sharp, supposedly, they want at least look at them. Since Sharp has an office in Illinois this is a just a short drive for the delivery folks.

Magnolia is high-integrity here. If it was reported defective and they all saw evidence, then they will not them put back on the floor even as open box.

Regardless, I am shopping for a different set now but out of curiosity played a grey field on another Elite at the dealer today from 70" was from January 2012 build and grey was absolutely perfect, so all this BS about a little bit of green is on every set is just that - BS. Those that are shopping for an Elite should know Nov2012 DSE is NOT normal and that is why all pre-Nov buyers are so happy with their sets. All pre-Nov2012 sets had almost perfect grey, for sure no green or pink. 2nd pre-Nov set that I saw personally. Just beautiful screen, no DSE, 1 dead pixel but immaculate uniformity on every step of the scale up to Beyond White. Those considering me nut case can check and re-check but all serial on those perfect sets started with 108 vs. 211 on the Nov.

I have never seen more uniform screens than pre-Nov screens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post


There are a bunch of open box units there for sure, maybe you can snag one cheap.........
.

Edited by dvzzz - 1/21/13 at 10:09pm
post #12168 of 14509
Question:

Does anyone think I would benefit in a professional calibration even though I do not watch in THX mode? Elite Pure is my prefered viewing medium. Or does viewing source material outside of THX mode defeat the purpose of a full calibration?

Thanks ahead of time!

P.S. I've decided to keep the Elite.
post #12169 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post

You should really come to the store near me, but seriously, actually I was told that last 4 units were asked to be brought back to Sharp, supposedly, they want at least look at them. Since Sharp has an office in Illinois this is a just a short drive for the delivery folks.

Magnolia is high-integrity here. If it was reported defective and they all saw evidence, then they will not them put back on the floor even as open box.

Regardless, I am shopping for a different set now but out of curiosity played a grey field on another Elite at the dealer today from 70" was from January 2012 build and grey was absolutely perfect, so all this BS about a little bit of green is on all sets is just that BS. Those that are shopping for an Elite should know Nov2012 DSE is NOT normal and that is why all pre-Nov buyers are so happy with their sets. All pre-Nov2012 sets had almost perfect grey, for sure no green or pink. 2nd pre-Nov set that I saw personally. Just beautiful screen, no DSE, 1 dead pixel but immaculate uniformity on every step of the scale up to Beyond White. All serial on those sets started with 108 vs 211 on the Nov.

Dvzzz I just ordered a 70 from a store in Davenport Iowa , Illinois border. My hey are not a Magnolia store, however were able to get me a 60 that I am up sizing. The manager said it was coming out of the Illinois distribution center and my 60 is a November 2012 that I bought in December. I just paid the difference tonight. Wonder if things will change if Sharp is taking them back?
post #12170 of 14509
Calibration is not limited to one mode or another, just that certain modes may have features that you can't turn on or off and therefore do not give the best results, or may not have the flexibility necessary to create the optimum settings for an accurate picture. If having the most accurate picture your tv is capable of is important to you, then calibration is a must.

Having said that, it pains me that there are folks out there in the world, even ones with expensive high end displays, who actually prefer "vivid" or "dynamic" modes, and for those folks, well maybe its not the best investment for them.

I guess you have to ask yourself which one of those you are, and then you have answered your own question smile.gif

P.S. A calibrated set generally consumes less electricity, although with these sets I am sure the savings are probably negligible, a few bucks a year at most.
post #12171 of 14509
Ok can some one tell me then what serial numbers are the bad ones and to stray away from then ???
post #12172 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

DYAUSWINTERS

I was not checking these in a BB, I live in a city of about a million people and there is only one shop that even carries the Elite. It is an extremely high end shop. They won't even carry the ST model of the panasonics, the lowest model set in the shop is a 60GT50. I have also followed the VE shootout for at least a few years, and sorry but the VT50 beat the Elite in the last shootout, and it barely beat out the VT30 the year before that. The Elite has not had any improvement since then, and now there are the VT60 and ZT60 that are better than the previous model years. The ES9000 was NOT included in that shootout either so we will have to see if the Elite even makes the shootout this year and see where that comparison lands. The Elite I was comparing to the ES9000 was in a preferential location in the shop in sort of an alcove with no direct lighting anywhere near it, so the fact that on the test patterns showing the shades of black were indistinguishable from one set to the other speaks volumes, especially as I've said, I had the remotes and had set both sets to comparable modes (THX on the Elite, Movie on the ES, Pure on the Elite, Natural on the ES) with comparable settings, meaning that one did not have lighting, brightness or contrast set proportionately different than the other, ie. one was not turned down and one turned up.

I am not trying to be insulting but you are basing your opinion off exactly what you said invalidates an opinion, which is that you seen the ES9000 in BB, where who knows what mode or what the settings were that you are comparing the Elite to. I spent time TODAY, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...I had already bought the Elite, I would not have switched my order to the ES9000 if there was any indication that the Elite was superior. The black levels were virtually indistinguishable between them. From a technological standpoint, I do understand that a full-array, local dimmed set has an advantage, but whatever voodoo they used on the ES9000 makes that technological advantage nearly imperceptible.

Here is a review that also makes a statement about just how good the blacks are....
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-es9000-hdtv-led-series-9,18218.html

and in particular this quote from that review

"What struck us most strongly about the ES9000 is not its size, but rather its ability to reproduce deep blacks. Most home theater aficionados lean towards plasma displays for black levels, but Samsung was especially eager to show off the ES9000's performance in a completely pitch black room.

A demo reel showed off impressive blacks against vibrant colours, but it wasn't until we moved onto The Dark Knight that we were wowed. It's hard to judge from the photos we snapped at the demo, but they were the best blacks we've seen from an LED LCD HDTV."



This is not any bash on the Elite, and it was the one I initially bought, but when you compare the two objectively, color, motion, black level are so evenly matched that unless there is something that makes one better for calibration I think that they would be even closer post calibration (given that that the closer you move to an ideal the less variance there is). Thats when the details come into play, the ES has better web functionality, built in camera, 5 more inches, none of those things factored into my opinion but certainly did my wife's. Even though the bezel on both sets are completely different, they both have the same goal... to disappear during viewing, one by being matte black, the other by being super thin, so I think that if you watch your set in a darkened room as I do its non-factor either way. If it was going in a room with lots of ambient light, well, I might have had to tell my wife she was wrong on what one she thought was better in that department LOL.

Both are excellent, excellent sets, and 99.9% of people would be lucky to have either one, I am sorry but I just cannot agree that one is clearly superior to the other in terms of overall PQ.


I never said I compared the sets at BB I just said "I saw the samsung there and didn't think it was crap", and that's because I never judge a sets pq there unless I can mess with the settings for a while. Where I live there is no ELITE on display. And in the shootout the VT50 won in overall pq because of it's near perfect color, NOT because it had the deepest blacks (which in my opinion is the first thing to look for as far as good pq is concerned then color then motion and so on) ELITE still won that category. Also included in my post was a statement where I said the ELITE is the best LED/LCD available by far. Not the best overall. At my elevation I could not own a plasma (8500 elevation) I also like bright whites!. The 75 samsung is a new model that has not been put to the test at the shootout yet BUT like all samsungs edge lit models the blacks won't be near the ELITES. That is my opinion not fact and it's based off the tech that has had the same full screen blacks issue since it originated. Who knows maybe someone else here can chime in on the edge lit tech vs full array local dimming and explain it better than me. Ken where are you haha. Either way I do agree with you in that I am sure both are excellent sets I just know the edge lit tech of past cannot reproduce the blacks of this set and have heard no news at all about the new ones suddenly making drastic improvements.
post #12173 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

Question:

Does anyone think I would benefit in a professional calibration even though I do not watch in THX mode? Elite Pure is my prefered viewing medium. Or does viewing source material outside of THX mode defeat the purpose of a full calibration?

Thanks ahead of time!

P.S. I've decided to keep the Elite.
You can read owner's reactions to having all types of displays and projectors calibrated using the link in the signature area at the bottom of my post. A calibration done by one of the outstanding calibrators that are active here at AVS will allow you to get the most out of your display. The main feature of a good calibration is accuracy which means that the movies you see will be as close to the director's intent as your display is capable of. Many people feel also that the PQ on a well calibrated display has a feeling of depth in the image. For me, having natural skin tones sold me on calibration.

If you don't watch many movies, you may not get as much out of your calibration. Movies are created following an industry standard, and even movies like "The Matrix" where the director tints the PQ green to show that you are in the matrix, you will be getting the intended green tint. TV has no such standard and PQ can vary from channel to channel, from program to program, or even from one part of a program to another part of the same program.

Your personal taste will determine if you get your money's worth from a good calibration. If you want to know about calibrators in your area, check the links at the bottom of turbe's posts.
post #12174 of 14509
Is there any pro calibrators on this thread that can give info on the blacks of the new 75ES9000 compared to the ELITE? Now I am curious
post #12175 of 14509
Same here smile.gif If only to validate what my eyes were seeing. I would hope that after spending so much time looking at one to the other that if there was a significant difference, I would have seen it. I wonder what the limits of perception are in this regard. How small a difference can you actually distinguish without measuring ? Its amazing the optical trickery that sometimes is in play. Before my GT30 I had the G10 which had the rising black issue and caused me to introduce bias lighting in order to be what I consider watchable. Obviously it does not change the black level on the set, but tricks our eyes into seeing the black as being darker than it really is.
post #12176 of 14509
Is anyone here using a case to store their 3D glasses. I found these on Amazon but wanted to see if there are any better options. Thanks.

http://www.dimensionaloptics.com/Product.aspx?l=00010001000100060000&p=ACC01230
post #12177 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by DYAUSWINTERS View Post

Who knows maybe someone else here can chime in on the edge lit tech vs full array local dimming and explain it better than me. Ken where are you haha. Either way I do agree with you in that I am sure both are excellent sets I just know the edge lit tech of past cannot reproduce the blacks of this set and have heard no news at all about the new ones suddenly making drastic improvements.

Yes, fully array LD is better than edge lit. There is considerable variation in how well implemented the edge lit designs are however. They can be pretty poor to excellent. There was a review I had read on a recent Sony edge lit display that claimed it was almost as good as a panel with full array LD. I don't recall the model #.

With that said, I've never seen the Samsung in question here, but certainly the cited reviewer in the link seemed to be very impressed with the black levels, so who knows? Maybe Samsung's implementation is actually that good.

I find myself in a real dilemma. I'll be in need of a larger screen display as we move our 60" Elite to the bedroom. However the QC problems with the latest batch of 70" Elites has me as concerned as anyone else. I don't know if they've switched panels or if something else is going on, but either way there's obviously an issue. I'm also a bit hesitant to spend a large amount of money at this point for a display that's not 4K capable. Yes, there is no 4K content now and probably won't be for awhile, but it will be there eventually. If the claims of some of the reviewer's of the better 4K panels are true, and they can actually make 2K content look better than on a 2K panel, that might be enough to tip the scales for me. I'll have to see what sizes are available, my seating distance and whether the performance justifies the price.

This is one of the most confusing buying cycles in the display industry I've seen. eek.gif
post #12178 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

Calibration is not limited to one mode or another, just that certain modes may have features that you can't turn on or off and therefore do not give the best results, or may not have the flexibility necessary to create the optimum settings for an accurate picture. If having the most accurate picture your tv is capable of is important to you, then calibration is a must.

Having said that, it pains me that there are folks out there in the world, even ones with expensive high end displays, who actually prefer "vivid" or "dynamic" modes, and for those folks, well maybe its not the best investment for them.

I guess you have to ask yourself which one of those you are, and then you have answered your own question smile.gif

P.S. A calibrated set generally consumes less electricity, although with these sets I am sure the savings are probably negligible, a few bucks a year at most.

Although I definitely consider myself more educated on audio/video matters than your average consumer, I know I am not considered a "purist". I don't think I could ever get used to THX mode, which is what most prefer here. I know that many use the argument that it is how the director meant for us to see the movie. But that is not necessarily always a good thing for everyone. For example, Peter Jackson filmed The Hobbit in 48FPS. Many people don't like this and said it creates the soap opera effect. I've seen articles that say just avoid the 3D version at places like the IMAX theaters. But isnt' that how the director intended for us to see the film? If we are going to watch the film truly as the director intended it to be viewed, we need to watch it in 48FPS regardless of our opinion of the soap opera effect.

Another example would be George Lucas's remastered original trilogy Star Wars films. He added footage and CGI that most consider terrible and doesn't even fit into the films. But that is how he intended for us to watch the films so it's not up to us to decide whether we prefer the originals or not. And then there is the whole 3D fad which some love and others hate (I personally hate it).

Honestly, regardless of the director's intention I have never been impressed with the picture quality of a film at the theater. Even as a child when there wasn't anything to compare it to, I always thought the image was too dark and somewhat lifeless. I always see that true to life colors are extremely important to purists, but I've never seen an image on a theater screen that looks remotely true to life. It looks more like what the world would look like if you had glaucoma (to me at least) The first time I've ever even been blown away by picture quality was when some of the better HD TV's started coming out. I am however blown away by black levels which is where the Elite is unparalleled.

I'm not putting down THX level viewing, but if I had the choice to watch in only that mode or not watch anything at all, I would chose to not watch anything. The light output is much too low and un-lifelike. Maybe I am deficient in light and color receptors in my retinas.
Edited by kdog750 - 1/22/13 at 7:47am
post #12179 of 14509
Maybe try adjusting the settings yourself using Digital Video Essentials HD, or I've heard the Disney WOW disk does an o.k job for casual calibration. Assuming you haven't done that already. If you don't like the results from that, and don't feel it improved your enjoyment, then you will have saved yourself a few hundred on a pro calibration you might not like the results of.

As for the Lucas thing, I LOVE the movies, but Lucas himself is a bit of a hypocrite and a liar in my opinion. I am old enough to remember his statement to Congress back in the 80's regarding film preservation. Which is completely inconsistent with his actions. I also find it suspicious that he exchanged the merchandising right for Ep. 1 for a percentage of Hasbro, then as rumour has it, they told him they needed a character that was marketable to small children, and shortly after was the first introduction of the Jar Jar Binks character into the screenplay. Don't even get me started on the Han shot first revision, there was absolutely nothing preventing him from making that "artistic" choice at the time of filming, that was pure revisionism. I really don't believe him when he says its what he meant originally. The changed krayt dragon call in ANH ? Couldn't have done that in any of the previous versions ? Vader saying NOOOOO as he chucks the Emperor down the shaft in ROTJ ? You meant to do that during filming and went through 2 more releases of that same movie (the 2 different DVD versions) before the technology permitted you to add it in ? Sorry, Rant over. LOL

Here is a link of his statement, see what he said, and then compare it to what he has done.
http://929nin.com/george-lucas-1988-congressional-testimony-against-altering-films/
Edited by pred1973 - 1/22/13 at 8:25am
post #12180 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

Question:

Does anyone think I would benefit in a professional calibration even though I do not watch in THX mode? Elite Pure is my prefered viewing medium. Or does viewing source material outside of THX mode defeat the purpose of a full calibration?

Thanks ahead of time!

P.S. I've decided to keep the Elite.

If your intention is to only watch the out of the box ELITE PURE picture mode then a calibration would be of no benefit to. However I highly recommend you get your ELITE calibrated because the difference in the picture quality is very obvious, it will open up your grey scale and allow you to see more detail then ever before. Right now you are not taking full advantage of your Elite and I recommend getting it calibrated so you can see the difference and compare for yourself. You can always choose not to use the calibrated picture modes if you don't like them, this it will not effect your ELITE PURE picture mode. However I think you will choose to use the calibrated picture mode over the ELITE PURE picture mode after you see the difference and see what you are missing first hand. wink.gif
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