Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 407

Originally Posted by dvzzz 

You should really come to the store near me, but seriously, actually I was told that last 4 units were asked to be brought back to Sharp, supposedly, they want at least look at them. Since Sharp has an office in Illinois this is a just a short drive for the delivery folks.

Magnolia is high-integrity here. If it was reported defective and they all saw evidence, then they will not them put back on the floor even as open box.

Regardless, I am shopping for a different set now but out of curiosity played a grey field on another Elite at the dealer today from 70" was from January 2012 build and grey was absolutely perfect, so all this BS about a little bit of green is on all sets is just that BS. Those that are shopping for an Elite should know Nov2012 DSE is NOT normal and that is why all pre-Nov buyers are so happy with their sets. All pre-Nov2012 sets had almost perfect grey, for sure no green or pink. 2nd pre-Nov set that I saw personally. Just beautiful screen, no DSE, 1 dead pixel but immaculate uniformity on every step of the scale up to Beyond White. All serial on those sets started with 108 vs 211 on the Nov.

Originally Posted by pred1973 

DYAUSWINTERS

I was not checking these in a BB, I live in a city of about a million people and there is only one shop that even carries the Elite. It is an extremely high end shop. They won't even carry the ST model of the panasonics, the lowest model set in the shop is a 60GT50. I have also followed the VE shootout for at least a few years, and sorry but the VT50 beat the Elite in the last shootout, and it barely beat out the VT30 the year before that. The Elite has not had any improvement since then, and now there are the VT60 and ZT60 that are better than the previous model years. The ES9000 was NOT included in that shootout either so we will have to see if the Elite even makes the shootout this year and see where that comparison lands. The Elite I was comparing to the ES9000 was in a preferential location in the shop in sort of an alcove with no direct lighting anywhere near it, so the fact that on the test patterns showing the shades of black were indistinguishable from one set to the other speaks volumes, especially as I've said, I had the remotes and had set both sets to comparable modes (THX on the Elite, Movie on the ES, Pure on the Elite, Natural on the ES) with comparable settings, meaning that one did not have lighting, brightness or contrast set proportionately different than the other, ie. one was not turned down and one turned up.

I am not trying to be insulting but you are basing your opinion off exactly what you said invalidates an opinion, which is that you seen the ES9000 in BB, where who knows what mode or what the settings were that you are comparing the Elite to. I spent time TODAY, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...I had already bought the Elite, I would not have switched my order to the ES9000 if there was any indication that the Elite was superior. The black levels were virtually indistinguishable between them. From a technological standpoint, I do understand that a full-array, local dimmed set has an advantage, but whatever voodoo they used on the ES9000 makes that technological advantage nearly imperceptible.

Here is a review that also makes a statement about just how good the blacks are....
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-es9000-hdtv-led-series-9,18218.html

and in particular this quote from that review

"What struck us most strongly about the ES9000 is not its size, but rather its ability to reproduce deep blacks. Most home theater aficionados lean towards plasma displays for black levels, but Samsung was especially eager to show off the ES9000's performance in a completely pitch black room.

A demo reel showed off impressive blacks against vibrant colours, but it wasn't until we moved onto The Dark Knight that we were wowed. It's hard to judge from the photos we snapped at the demo, but they were the best blacks we've seen from an LED LCD HDTV."



This is not any bash on the Elite, and it was the one I initially bought, but when you compare the two objectively, color, motion, black level are so evenly matched that unless there is something that makes one better for calibration I think that they would be even closer post calibration (given that that the closer you move to an ideal the less variance there is). Thats when the details come into play, the ES has better web functionality, built in camera, 5 more inches, none of those things factored into my opinion but certainly did my wife's. Even though the bezel on both sets are completely different, they both have the same goal... to disappear during viewing, one by being matte black, the other by being super thin, so I think that if you watch your set in a darkened room as I do its non-factor either way. If it was going in a room with lots of ambient light, well, I might have had to tell my wife she was wrong on what one she thought was better in that department LOL.

Both are excellent, excellent sets, and 99.9% of people would be lucky to have either one, I am sorry but I just cannot agree that one is clearly superior to the other in terms of overall PQ.

Originally Posted by kdog750 

Question:

Does anyone think I would benefit in a professional calibration even though I do not watch in THX mode? Elite Pure is my prefered viewing medium. Or does viewing source material outside of THX mode defeat the purpose of a full calibration?

Thanks ahead of time!

P.S. I've decided to keep the Elite.

Originally Posted by DYAUSWINTERS 

Who knows maybe someone else here can chime in on the edge lit tech vs full array local dimming and explain it better than me. Ken where are you haha. Either way I do agree with you in that I am sure both are excellent sets I just know the edge lit tech of past cannot reproduce the blacks of this set and have heard no news at all about the new ones suddenly making drastic improvements.

Originally Posted by pred1973 

Calibration is not limited to one mode or another, just that certain modes may have features that you can't turn on or off and therefore do not give the best results, or may not have the flexibility necessary to create the optimum settings for an accurate picture. If having the most accurate picture your tv is capable of is important to you, then calibration is a must.

Having said that, it pains me that there are folks out there in the world, even ones with expensive high end displays, who actually prefer "vivid" or "dynamic" modes, and for those folks, well maybe its not the best investment for them.

I guess you have to ask yourself which one of those you are, and then you have answered your own question

P.S. A calibrated set generally consumes less electricity, although with these sets I am sure the savings are probably negligible, a few bucks a year at most.

Originally Posted by ad10ad 

I had the privilege of having my 60” calibrated last weekend by Kevin Miller. Man what a difference Kevin made with my Elite.

I have had it since August (June 2012 build) after Sharp replaced my first set (bad remote sensor). I first used the CNET settings, then some of the other more detailed settings that were posted in this thread. While I was happy with the color accuracy with those settings, I felt that the black levels weren’t as “inky” as I remembered from my first set. Still, I put off having my second set calibrated on the hope that there would be a cyan fix forthcoming—not that the color accuracy bothered me, but I didn’t want to have to have it calibrated twice. Once it became clear that a fix was unlikely, I decided to bite the bullet and have it calibrated.

First of all, Kevin was a pleasure to meet and talk TV tech with.

As for his work—I was really blown away. The black levels and contrast were staggering after he was finished. The picture has much more depth and color vibrancy, without being overpowering. Even the off-axis viewing angle improved—it’s not perfect mind you, nor could it be given the technology—but it seems much better from all corners of the sofa. I’m still spending time with the set on different types of programming, but I couldn’t be happier. Even my wife, who was skeptical about whether we really would see a difference, had to admit the picture was dramatically better.

Kevin, thanks again for such great work!

Originally Posted by bziggy 

Ok can some one tell me then what serial numbers are the bad ones and to stray away from then ???

Originally Posted by Surge 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvzzz

You should really come to the store near me, but seriously, actually I was told that last 4 units were asked to be brought back to Sharp, supposedly, they want at least look at them. Since Sharp has an office in Illinois this is a just a short drive for the delivery folks.

Magnolia is high-integrity here. If it was reported defective and they all saw evidence, then they will not them put back on the floor even as open box.

Regardless, I am shopping for a different set now but out of curiosity played a grey field on another Elite at the dealer today from 70" was from January 2012 build and grey was absolutely perfect, so all this BS about a little bit of green is on all sets is just that BS. Those that are shopping for an Elite should know Nov2012 DSE is NOT normal and that is why all pre-Nov buyers are so happy with their sets. All pre-Nov2012 sets had almost perfect grey, for sure no green or pink. 2nd pre-Nov set that I saw personally. Just beautiful screen, no DSE, 1 dead pixel but immaculate uniformity on every step of the scale up to Beyond White. All serial on those sets started with 108 vs 211 on the Nov.

Dvzzz I just ordered a 70 from a store in Davenport Iowa , Illinois border. They are not a Magnolia store, however were able to get me a 60 that I am up sizing. The manager said the 70 iwas coming out of the Illinois distribution center and my 60 is a November 2012 that I bought in December. I just paid the difference tonight. Wonder if things will change if Sharp is taking them back?

Dvzzz, I will let you know what build date I got, once it arrives.

Originally Posted by dvzzz 

@Surge best of luck, really hope then can ship a better unit to you than mine were. Did you like your 60? or what did not you like about 60?

Originally Posted by Surge 

I sit approximately 12 feet back and for 1k difference in price I think the 70 will be perfect. Also I have a Samsung a750 DLP LED rear projection tv in my home theater. Once that goes the 70 will be moved down and I will see what is available then. I can't go plasma as the Elite is by my thermostat and I don't want the heat from the TV next to it. I also game a little and worry about IR on plasma tvs. The local BB manager I have been working on for my great price match seems familiar with the recent Eite issues and understands if I need to return.
Mon a side note, do you know where I can download images to a USB to check my current and new tv. Thanks Jon

Originally Posted by Shady195 

Considering the ammount of money you guys spend on these TV's I have to ask.. Does Sharp give you guys as much of a hard time for these smaller defects for replacement as they give their other TVs? or are they pretty good about swapping.

Originally Posted by RadTech51 

I've yet to see any edge-lit sets compete against any local-dimming sets period. Samsung has upgraded the light channeling matrix for their edge-lit units pushing the technology to it's limits, but I'm still not very impressed with it. Samsung is obviously a big fan of edge-lit technology because of it's ability to get their screens super thin, however I am not a fan of what they are doing or for the reasons they are doing it.

Originally Posted by Ken Ross 

Yes, fully array LD is better than edge lit. There is considerable variation in how well implemented the edge lit designs are however. They can be pretty poor to excellent. There was a review I had read on a recent Sony edge lit display that claimed it was almost as good as a panel with full array LD. I don't recall the model #.

With that said, I've never seen the Samsung in question here, but certainly the cited reviewer in the link seemed to be very impressed with the black levels, so who knows? Maybe Samsung's implementation is actually that good.

I find myself in a real dilemma. I'll be in need of a larger screen display as we move our 60" Elite to the bedroom. However the QC problems with the latest batch of 70" Elites has me as concerned as anyone else. I don't know if they've switched panels or if something else is going on, but either way there's obviously an issue. I'm also a bit hesitant to spend a large amount of money at this point for a display that's not 4K capable. Yes, there is no 4K content now and probably won't be for awhile, but it will be there eventually. If the claims of some of the reviewer's of the better 4K panels are true, and they can actually make 2K content look better than on a 2K panel, that might be enough to tip the scales for me. I'll have to see what sizes are available, my seating distance and whether the performance justifies the price.

This is one of the most confusing buying cycles in the display industry I've seen.

Originally Posted by RadTech51 

I've yet to see any edge-lit sets compete against any local-dimming sets period. Samsung has upgraded the light channeling matrix for their edge-lit units pushing the technology to it's limits, but I'm still not very impressed with it. Samsung is obviously a big fan of edge-lit technology because of it's ability to get their screens super thin, however I am not a fan of what they are doing or for the reasons they are doing it.

Originally Posted by RadTech51 

If your intention is to only watch the out of the box ELITE PURE picture mode then a calibration would be of no benefit to. However I highly recommend you get your ELITE calibrated because the difference in the picture quality is very obvious, it will open up your grey scale and allow you to see more detail then ever before. Right now you are not taking full advantage of your Elite and I recommend getting it calibrated so you can see the difference and compare for yourself. You can always choose not to use the calibrated picture modes if you don't like them, this it will not effect your ELITE PURE picture mode. However I think you will choose to use the calibrated picture mode over the ELITE PURE picture mode after you see the difference and see what you are missing first hand.

Originally Posted by Ken Ross 

Yes, fully array LD is better than edge lit. There is considerable variation in how well implemented the edge lit designs are however. They can be pretty poor to excellent. There was a review I had read on a recent Sony edge lit display that claimed it was almost as good as a panel with full array LD. I don't recall the model #.

With that said, I've never seen the Samsung in question here, but certainly the cited reviewer in the link seemed to be very impressed with the black levels, so who knows? Maybe Samsung's implementation is actually that good.

I find myself in a real dilemma. I'll be in need of a larger screen display as we move our 60" Elite to the bedroom. However the QC problems with the latest batch of 70" Elites has me as concerned as anyone else. I don't know if they've switched panels or if something else is going on, but either way there's obviously an issue. I'm also a bit hesitant to spend a large amount of money at this point for a display that's not 4K capable. Yes, there is no 4K content now and probably won't be for awhile, but it will be there eventually. If the claims of some of the reviewer's of the better 4K panels are true, and they can actually make 2K content look better than on a 2K panel, that might be enough to tip the scales for me. I'll have to see what sizes are available, my seating distance and whether the performance justifies the price.

This is one of the most confusing buying cycles in the display industry I've seen.

Originally Posted by kdog750 

It's very tempting and I may very well go this route. I still suspect it will not be for me though. I was in the New Orleans Magnolia center where they had a special setup for the 70" Elite in a darkened area. They said it had been ISF calibrated and they would not let me change it to any different modes. It was in THX and running that demo that you usually see for the Elite. The blacks were certainly black, but everything else was so dim I could barely even see what was going on. It was so dark I had to strain my eyes to see any detail at all. I could not imagine trying to watch a movie like that. But as I said, perhaps I'm missing receptors in my retina or something.

Originally Posted by PalJoey 

I just went thorugh the exact same thought process as you and am very happy post calibration. I too was a fan of the Elite Pure (mostly because of the deep blacks/cooler pic) and thought THX mode was god awful and washed out. My reasoning for calibration was I would never know if I liked it until I tried it.

If you go that route, make sure to get a respected calibrator so you are not short changed on the experience. I myself went with Chad B and needless to say he did an outstadning job. As it turns out the reason I did not like THX mode was simply because it was way off with my set (which Chad noticed right away) so keep in mind what you see with your particular set may not necessarily be a "calibritated" picture...each one is different. Also worth noting, Chad calibrated mine based on my liking of Elite Pure so you can have a calibrated picture but it can still be adjusted to your tastes without losing accuracy.