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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 428

post #12811 of 13287
3/21/13 at 9:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsheehan View Post

Can anyone point me in the direction of RadTech51's different posts with calibration settings for the various modes on the Elite 70"? I found the one for THX settings, but can't seem to locate the other threads throughout this 427 page monster of a forum thread.

Thanks!

Here are my professional calibrated 10pt. THX Picture mode settings by Kevin Miller for you to use. However I still recommend for you get your Elite professionally calibrated down the road. wink.gif

THX Picture Mode Settings.
Calibrated by Kevin Miller.

Intelligent Variable Contrast
[Local Dimming On]

OPC [Off]

Backlight
[STD] -16 - +16

Contrast [+32]

Brightness [+1]

Color [0]

Tint [0]

Sharpness [0]

Advanced

Color Temp.
10 Point Setting (On)

C.M.S.-Hue
R [0]
Y [-2]
G [+4]
C [0]
B [-3]
M [+6]

C.M.S.-Saturation
R [0]
Y [-5]
G [+2]
C [+8]
B [+1]
M [0]

C.M.S.-Value
R [+5]
Y [+2]
G [-2]
C [-13]
B [+8]
M [-2]

Color Temp.
10 Point Setting [ON]

Position [+1]
R Gain [+15]
G Gain [-4]
B Gain [0]

Position [+2]
R Gain [+6]
G Gain [-8]
B Gain [-15]

Position [+3]
R Gain [+6]
G Gain [-5]
B Gain [-15]

Position [+4]
R Gain [0]
G Gain [-4]
B Gain [-18]

Position [+5]
R Gain [0]
G Gain [-4]
B Gain [-19]

Position [+6]
R Gain [0]
G Gain [-3]
B Gain [-18]

Position [+7]
R Gain [-1]
G Gain [-5]
B Gain [-19]

Position [+8]
R Gain [0]
G Gain [-6]
B Gain [-19]

Position [+9]
R Gain [0]
G Gain [-5]
B Gain [-20

Position [+10]
R Gain [0]
G Gain [0]
B Gain [-15]

Motion Enhancement
[120Hz Low]

Precision Color Plus
[Off]

Active Contrast
[Off]

Gamma Adjustment
[0]

Film Mode
[Off]

Digital Noise Reduction
[Off]

Monochrome
[Off]
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post #12812 of 13287
3/21/13 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Here are my professional calibrated 10pt. THX Picture mode settings by Kevin Miller for you to use. However I still recommend for you get your Elite professionally calibrated down the road. wink.gif

THX Picture Mode Settings.
Calibrated by Kevin Miller.

Did Kevin change anything in the TV's service menu? I have the Lumagen mini calibrated via calman 5. All dE's less than one on grayscale, gamma and 125 point gamut. Black level on the money too. I ask about the service menu, because if I try to calibrate using a contrast setting of +32 my reds clip on the very high end. Also the picture VERY bright. Do you have the Spears and munsil test disc? If so, do your reds clip when viewing the clip test pattern?
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post #12813 of 13287
3/21/13 at 2:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchinshouse View Post

Did Kevin change anything in the TV's service menu? I have the Lumagen mini calibrated via calman 5. All dE's less than one on grayscale, gamma and 125 point gamut. Black level on the money too. I ask about the service menu, because if I try to calibrate using a contrast setting of +32 my reds clip on the very high end. Also the picture VERY bright. Do you have the Spears and munsil test disc? If so, do your reds clip when viewing the clip test pattern?

I don't think Kevin changed anything in the TV's service menu or he would have told me about it I think. If you need the THX settings before calibration let me know I have them. cool.gif

PS: I don't have the Spears and munsil test disc, however I do have the Disney WoW Experience one, let me know if you have a specific scene in mind for this disc. http://www.familyvideo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=399197&source=shopping
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post #12814 of 13287
3/21/13 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

I don't think Kevin changed anything in the TV's service menu or he would have told me about it I think. If you need the THX settings before calibration let me know I have them. cool.gif

PS: I don't have the Spears and munsil test disc, however I do have the Disney WoW Experience one, let me know if you have a specific scene in mind for this disc. http://www.familyvideo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=399197&source=shopping

I have the Wow disc too. Don't think there's a color clipping pattern on that disc. I think just a b/w clip pattern only. No worries. Just wanted Kevin's secrets. :-) I had no luck at leaving contrast at +32 AND having clip free color. I'm sure my under $300 meter i1 Display Pro could be better. Perhaps its calibration is a tad off. My color cube dEs looked great, but red still clipped when contrast set to 32. At a contrast setting of 26 no clipping on the high end and colors are as good as the Lumagen could get. Again, all dEs under 1.

Anyone else have any idea why I cannot leave contrast at +32 and having zero clipping on the high end?
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post #12815 of 13287
3/21/13 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Lev Arn View Post

Do most Elite owners prefer to have matching elite gear from pioneer to go with their tv?

Along with my 70" Elite I use the following:
Onkyo tx-nr5010
Emotiva xpa3
Oppo bdp-103
SVS M-series speakers
SVS pb13 ultra sub
Panamax 5300
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post #12816 of 13287
3/22/13 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchinshouse View Post

I have the Wow disc too. Don't think there's a color clipping pattern on that disc. I think just a b/w clip pattern only. No worries. Just wanted Kevin's secrets. :-) I had no luck at leaving contrast at +32 AND having clip free color. I'm sure my under $300 meter i1 Display Pro could be better. Perhaps its calibration is a tad off. My color cube dEs looked great, but red still clipped when contrast set to 32. At a contrast setting of 26 no clipping on the high end and colors are as good as the Lumagen could get. Again, all dEs under 1.

Anyone else have any idea why I cannot leave contrast at +32 and having zero clipping on the high end?

If memory serves anything above 27 with backlight at 0 would clip the colors on S&M and also fail the contrast test. My current settings are backlight -1 and contrast 25. This is in THX with IVC low on. 100% stimulus is 48-49 FL. Using IVC low does not harm your calibration results. Gamma, grayscale and gamut results will be the same. Also passes the S&M for clipping and contrast. Try it you may like it!
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post #12817 of 13287
3/22/13 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Lev Arn View Post

Do most Elite owners prefer to have matching elite gear from pioneer to go with their tv?

Denon 3313ci
Def Tech ProCinema600.6 + a pair of ProMonitor1000s up front for 7.1.
Denon DBP-1611UD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Not me (at least at the moment).
Denon 3808ci
Parasound Halo A52
Panasonic BDP-220
Seaton Submersive HP
Klipsch RF-83/RC-64

All from different manufacturers but it comes together quite nicely. smile.gif

I do have an older Elite DV-59AVi but it is rarely used anymore.

does the 3808ci pass 3D signals through?
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post #12818 of 13287
3/22/13 at 3:42pm
My NIGHTMARE:

My Sharp Elite in THX mode set to factory default had a temperature of 15,000 Kelvin! Blue was off the graph. Called Sharp. Guy came (1 month later) who did not know what Kelvin is or 6500K. He is a "board replacer". Puts new main board in. Temperature still over 15,000K (he has no equipment to verify this, so I have to show him with Spectracal and my Klein..... I might as well have been showing my 13 year-old daughter).

I call Sharp "Elite" again. They are going to send a "custom" board. One month later and I am still getting the run around. This started early January. It's almost April. The product is now officially dead.

Anyone with any suggestions?
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post #12819 of 13287
3/22/13 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

If memory serves anything above 27 with backlight at 0 would clip the colors on S&M and also fail the contrast test. My current settings are backlight -1 and contrast 25. This is in THX with IVC low on. 100% stimulus is 48-49 FL. Using IVC low does not harm your calibration results. Gamma, grayscale and gamut results will be the same. Also passes the S&M for clipping and contrast. Try it you may like it!

Thanks for the feedback. I left IVC at "local dimming on" for the full calibration. I absolutely love my TV's picture with the Lumagen. By far the best colors I have ever seen. Very happy with my calibration results. I just wanted to know what the secret was to clip free color with a contrast setting of +32.
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post #12820 of 13287
3/23/13 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

My NIGHTMARE:

My Sharp Elite in THX mode set to factory default had a temperature of 15,000 Kelvin! Blue was off the graph. Called Sharp. Guy came (1 month later) who did not know what Kelvin is or 6500K. He is a "board replacer". Puts new main board in. Temperature still over 15,000K (he has no equipment to verify this, so I have to show him with Spectracal and my Klein..... I might as well have been showing my 13 year-old daughter).

I call Sharp "Elite" again. They are going to send a "custom" board. One month later and I am still getting the run around. This started early January. It's almost April. The product is now officially dead.

Anyone with any suggestions?

I would tell Sharp that unless they fixed the 15,000k issue, I wanted a NEW replacement set under the 2 year warrantee. This issue has come up 2 or 3 times before. If I remember correctly, replacing the board has to be followed by a (manual?) reset of the service menu settings to what they were at delivery.
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post #12821 of 13287
3/23/13 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

...
Using IVC low does not harm your calibration results. Gamma, grayscale and gamut results will be the same.
...
Sorry to say but any change in IVC mode, contrast, brightness and backl;ight has significant impact on the calibration, especially IVC mode. Color tracking character changes as does the gamma, black and white level. It's the nature of the beast. You may like or even see the results more to your liking but they have definitely changed.
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post #12822 of 13287
3/23/13 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchinshouse View Post

Thanks for the feedback. I left IVC at "local dimming on" for the full calibration. I absolutely love my TV's picture with the Lumagen. By far the best colors I have ever seen. Very happy with my calibration results. I just wanted to know what the secret was to clip free color with a contrast setting of +32.

You CANNOT calibrate the Elite without clipping red using contrast at +32. You will NEED to lower contrast to about 29-30. I have calibrated 3 different Elite sets and all 3 exhibit the same behavior.

There may be settings in the service menu that can be changed to allow for it but one DEFINITELY will not be able to using user menu settings.
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post #12823 of 13287
3/23/13 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

Sorry to say but any change in IVC mode, contrast, brightness and backl;ight has significant impact on the calibration, especially IVC mode. Color tracking character changes as does the gamma, black and white level. It's the nature of the beast. You may like or even see the results more to your liking but they have definitely changed.

I second those comments. IVC Low, Medium, and High modes drastically changes the gamma.
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post #12824 of 13287
3/23/13 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

You CANNOT calibrate the Elite without clipping red using contrast at +32. You will NEED to lower contrast to about 29-30. I have calibrated 3 different Elite sets and all 3 exhibit the same behavior.

There may be settings in the service menu that can be changed to allow for it but one DEFINITELY will not be able to using user menu settings.

Cool, thought it was just me.

My current settings are backlight +4 contrast +26 brightness 0. Zero clipping.
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post #12825 of 13287
3/23/13 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

Sorry to say but any change in IVC mode, contrast, brightness and backl;ight has significant impact on the calibration, especially IVC mode. Color tracking character changes as does the gamma, black and white level. It's the nature of the beast. You may like or even see the results more to your liking but they have definitely changed.

Perhaps it has something to do with the Lumagen Radiance I use for calibration, but I have calibrated with LD off, LD on and IVC low on thru the entire process. Turning IVC low on after calibrating with LD off or LD on obviously increases the white output considerably (roughly from 30 FL to 48 FL at 100%) but the gamma numbers, greyscale de's and gamut de's don't change. Measured before and after numerous times to make sure no harm done with IVC low on. Finally got to the point where I just leave IVC low on for calibration. Note that these are manual calibrations using Chromapure and a Chroma 5 Pro.
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post #12826 of 13287
3/23/13 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Perhaps it has something to do with the Lumagen Radiance I use for calibration, but I have calibrated with LD off, LD on and IVC low on thru the entire process. Turning IVC low on after calibrating with LD off or LD on obviously increases the white output considerably (roughly from 30 FL to 48 FL at 100%) but the gamma numbers, greyscale de's and gamut de's don't change. Measured before and after numerous times to make sure no harm done with IVC low on. Finally got to the point where I just leave IVC low on for calibration. Note that these are manual calibrations using Chromapure and a Chroma 5 Pro.
We sure have different behaving displays!

Do you calibrate both the Elite & Radiance or just the Radiance? I also have a Radiance XD but these changes are on the Elite and will alter not just the gamma curve. I use CalMAN and a C6 meter. I do 10 point grayscale and saturation sweep calibration at 25, 50, 75 and 100% saturation on the Elite. I then do 21 point grayscale and 3D 125 point Cube LUT on the Radiance.

You want to tell me you get the same exact gamma curve whether you use LD or IVC low? That makes no sense. That's exactly what IVC is primarily affecting and why it looks different. But there are side effects.

It also alters the gamut readings because the luminance levels have changed across the board. not just the white level. The RGB tracking is not consistent as you increase or decrease luminance. When you bump or decrease the luminance at a level, the R, G & B do not change exactly the same - those LEDs are not perfect. That means you will need to re-balance the RGB at the new level or you'll have some gamut change at that luminance level.

I normally like to calibrate with LD on, even though it's a pain, and that's because calibration characteristic will change when you change the IVC setting. You can get situations where an increase in R, G or B while trying to balance a particular grayscale level will jump the dE by more than 2 because you've crossed a local dimming threshold. That jump will not be exactly the same for R, G and B.

Also altering the white level will change the gamma across because White is the reference level that was used during the calibration. Now that reference has changed and it is not consistent across levels in between from black to white.

If you can go from IVC off to local dimming to IVC Advanced Low and not have measurable changes in gamma, gamut, grayscale and white balance then you have a magic TV smile.gif. And maybe you do. You're a lucky dude. Mine always exhibits these changes. But it does give an awesome picture, which we have in common smile.gif.
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post #12827 of 13287
3/23/13 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

We sure have different behaving displays!

Do you calibrate both the Elite & Radiance or just the Radiance? I also have a Radiance XD but these changes are on the Elite and will alter not just the gamma curve. I use CalMAN and a C6 meter. I do 10 point grayscale and saturation sweep calibration at 25, 50, 75 and 100% saturation on the Elite. I then do 21 point grayscale and 3D 125 point Cube LUT on the Radiance.

You want to tell me you get the same exact gamma curve whether you use LD or IVC low? That makes no sense. That's exactly what IVC is primarily affecting and why it looks different. But there are side effects.

It also alters the gamut readings because the luminance levels have changed across the board. not just the white level. The RGB tracking is not consistent as you increase or decrease luminance. When you bump or decrease the luminance at a level, the R, G & B do not change exactly the same - those LEDs are not perfect. That means you will need to re-balance the RGB at the new level or you'll have some gamut change at that luminance level.

I normally like to calibrate with LD on, even though it's a pain, and that's because calibration characteristic will change when you change the IVC setting. You can get situations where an increase in R, G or B while trying to balance a particular grayscale level will jump the dE by more than 2 because you've crossed a local dimming threshold. That jump will not be exactly the same for R, G and B.

Also altering the white level will change the gamma across because White is the reference level that was used during the calibration. Now that reference has changed and it is not consistent across levels in between from black to white.

If you can go from IVC off to local dimming to IVC Advanced Low and not have measurable changes in gamma, gamut, grayscale and white balance then you have a magic TV smile.gif. And maybe you do. You're a lucky dude. Mine always exhibits these changes. But it does give an awesome picture, which we have in common smile.gif.

Almost all of my calibration is done in a Radiance XD. Minor changes in RGB hi/lo's and overall color/hue levels in Elite THX mode plus backlight, contrast and brightness. Everything else in the Radiance. First calibrations were done in Sept/Oct. 2011 when I got the set. Started with LD off for calibration and turned LD on after. Measured results and little if any change. Happy but max light output without clipping was around 32 Fl. Turned IVC Low on with the LD off calibration results and liked PQ especially added pop. Much higher white level but still passed the S&M color clipping and contrast tests. Checked calibration with IVC low on and 100% was ~48-49 FL. Minor changes in gamma (e.g 75% before =2.30, after 2.32 etc) all De's both grayscale and 75% gamut values still less than 2. Probably did 6 different calibrations this way with no problems but switched to LD on as starting point. Fast forward to Lumagen adding the 125 point LUT. Began by calibrating 25,50,75 and 100% using the same process/steps with no problems. Tried several different gamma profiles and for one of them forgot to turn IVC low off before starting. Measurements were as stable with it on as off so for the final few calibrations to finish up the 125 point I left IVC low on. Gamma at 5% is 2.17 rises to 2.3 at 20% and stays there (+/-.02 or.03) to 80% with increase to 2.45 at 95% per my design. Greyscale has de's less than 2 for all points above 15% and gamut as measured in 5% intervals from 25% thru 100% has all de's less than 1.5 except for 2 or 3 yellows around 2.

In may be important to note that all these calibrations were done manually including the 125. The latter took ~ 10 hours in total but I didn't want to spend $600-$700 for a new meter and auto cal software when I wasn't sure I would notice the difference. The difference is the best PQ I have ever seen on a TV.
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post #12828 of 13287
3/24/13 at 1:21pm
Hi,
I'm new to this thread, and have owned Pioneer Elite displays over the years.
Just bought an open box 70" Elite from BB in Marlboro MA for $4500, and they are doing a free calibration at my home, which is included in all open box TV's, according to the salesman I dealt with. Supposedly they have one guy that does them in the MA area.
I was wondering how I would tell if the serial # is pre- Nov 2012. Sales guy told me that it was a 2011 model that was used, then put away to make room for the 2012 model, which was recently sold. i'm also gonna check the hours on it as well...
Serial # is 112814621, no box to go by the date...
Thanks, Matt
Edited by mufflerguy - 3/24/13 at 1:26pm
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post #12829 of 13287
3/24/13 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mufflerguy View Post

Hi,
I'm new to this thread, and have owned Pioneer Elite displays over the years.
Just bought an open box 70" Elite from BB in Marlboro MA for $4500, and they are doing a free calibration at my home, which is included in all open box TV's, according to the salesman I dealt with. Supposedly they have one guy that does them in the MA area.
I was wondering how I would tell if the serial # is pre- Nov 2012. Sales guy told me that it was a 2011 model that was used, then put away to make room for the 2012 model, which was recently sold. i'm also gonna check the hours on it as well...
Serial # is 112814621, no box to go by the date...
Thanks, Matt
There are no seperate model years for the Sharp Elite displays. There are only manufactured dates.
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post #12830 of 13287
3/24/13 at 2:52pm
Do you happen to know what the serial #s were in NOV 2012?
I am wondering if it is before then.
Also checked the hours, and they are very high- 5707 backlight hours. Sounds like it has been on display for well over a year, figuring 12 hours a day...
Makes me wonder if i should just get a new one instead, if I can find one...
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post #12831 of 13287
3/24/13 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mufflerguy View Post

Do you happen to know what the serial #s were in NOV 2012?
I am wondering if it is before then.
Also checked the hours, and they are very high- 5707 backlight hours. Sounds like it has been on display for well over a year, figuring 12 hours a day...
Makes me wonder if i should just get a new one instead, if I can find one...
I don't but I think that there are others who do.
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post #12832 of 13287
3/24/13 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mufflerguy View Post

Do you happen to know what the serial #s were in NOV 2012?
I am wondering if it is before then.
Also checked the hours, and they are very high- 5707 backlight hours. Sounds like it has been on display for well over a year, figuring 12 hours a day...
Makes me wonder if i should just get a new one instead, if I can find one...

If you are happy with the set and no issues are seen I would keep it. That's a good price for a 70" and hours don't mean a whole lot on these LEDs. I would highly recommend a PRO calibrate your set though and not a BB calibrator.
Enjoy.

John
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post #12833 of 13287
3/24/13 at 6:32pm
Yup, did some more reading and I believe I could do a better job myself than BB.
I am trying to set up an appt with Jeff from Accucal now...
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post #12834 of 13287
3/24/13 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mufflerguy View Post

Yup, did some more reading and I believe I could do a better job myself than BB.
I am trying to set up an appt with Jeff from Accucal now...
That will work. smile.gif

Jeff Meier is UMR at AVS if you want to check his reviews using the link in the signature area at the bottom of my post.
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post #12835 of 13287
3/25/13 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mufflerguy View Post

Yup, did some more reading and I believe I could do a better job myself than BB.
I am trying to set up an appt with Jeff from Accucal now...

Good call, I'm sure there may be some Geek Squad guys that 1) know what they are doing and 2) actually take the time to do it correctly. Unfortunately I got neither. I was back to my settings within 10 minutes of him leaving.
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post #12836 of 13287
3/25/13 at 7:30am
For those owners who are also DIY calibrators, try using a BT.1886 gamma curve to calibrate your Elite if your software supports it. I calibrated mine using BT.1886 and I thoroughly enjoy the better shadow details and the realistic look during brightly lit outdoor scenes. Try it out wink.gif

In the near future when I find some time, I will be calibrating my Movie THX mode using BT.1886 and I will post back with my settings.
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post #12837 of 13287
3/25/13 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

For those owners who are also DIY calibrators, try using a BT.1886 gamma curve to calibrate your Elite if your software supports it. I calibrated mine using BT.1886 and I thoroughly enjoy the better shadow details and the realistic look during brightly lit outdoor scenes. Try it out wink.gif

In the near future when I find some time, I will be calibrating my Movie THX mode using BT.1886 and I will post back with my settings
.
Always enjoy your settings!
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post #12838 of 13287
3/25/13 at 10:16am
Quote:
For those owners who are also DIY calibrators, try using a BT.1886 gamma curve to calibrate your Elite if your software supports it. I calibrated mine using BT.1886 and I thoroughly enjoy the better shadow details and the realistic look during brightly lit outdoor scenes. Try it out

In the near future when I find some time, I will be calibrating my Movie THX mode using BT.1886 and I will post back with my settings.

Please do as your Nov settings are the ones I am using until I really get it calibrated and they really pop.
Quote:
Do you happen to know what the serial #s were in NOV 2012?

they start with C211... so you have the 2011 build set.
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post #12839 of 13287
3/25/13 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mufflerguy View Post

Do you happen to know what the serial #s were in NOV 2012?
I am wondering if it is before then.
Also checked the hours, and they are very high- 5707 backlight hours. Sounds like it has been on display for well over a year, figuring 12 hours a day...
Makes me wonder if i should just get a new one instead, if I can find one...

Even at 5700 hours, the TV will likely be long obsolete before it reaches it's lifespan.
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post #12840 of 13287
3/25/13 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

For those owners who are also DIY calibrators, try using a BT.1886 gamma curve to calibrate your Elite if your software supports it. I calibrated mine using BT.1886 and I thoroughly enjoy the better shadow details and the realistic look during brightly lit outdoor scenes. Try it out wink.gif

In the near future when I find some time, I will be calibrating my Movie THX mode using BT.1886 and I will post back with my settings.
You didn't mention what value gamma to use with the BT1886 function smile.gif.

I found this discussion:

Talks about BT1886!

Thanks for the tip. Dang, another calibration night (after last night 's rolleyes.gif)
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