Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 11

Just saw one. Was playing some Tron, and then Harry Potter.
Jaw Dropping. No other word to describe it. The Blacks, the processing, colors.

Hands down best picture I have EVER seen. Even the last generation of Pioneer Elites, as amazing as they were, did not blow me away like this did.

It is amazing when you see one properly setup up in THX with direct blu-ray feed in preferential lighting conditions. Never though I would even consider an LCD, being a life long plasma guy. About the only advantage left for plasma is price and slightly better off axis viewing. Just wait until next year when the prices drop and they introduce the 80" 80X5 Ultimate Kuro Killler Elite. Sharp is going for the jugular of the other manufactures.

Don't forget natural motion and screen uniformity. Those are above black levels and off axis viewing in my opinion.

The Elites I have seen seem to have screen uniformity under control - at least better than sony and samsung equivalents.

It was direct Blu Ray feed. Had them play discs for me. And I was going and forth between elite pure mode and THX.
Funny.. BOTH looked killer.
Thx was so film like. I've never seen an LED set look this' film like'

The Kuros had:

• Brightness issues (ABL dimmed the picture in bright scenes)
• Low brightness overall (poor daytime viewing)
• Elevated black level (no true fade to black)
• Noisy/grainy image (lots of dithering)
• Posterization at 72/75/100Hz (banding/discoloration in dark tones)
• Poor sharpness in video modes (did not properly resolve 1080p as an LCD does)
• Poor shadow detail in actual picture content (test patterns only displaying a limited number of shades worked fine though)
• Poor motion handling (green/blue phosphor trails)
• Flicker (screen flickered at all refresh rates)
• Broken CMS
• Image retention/burn-in (I personally had one burn in after only a few hours of gaming at 100nt brightness)
• High power consumption (LED is significantly more efficient)
• High heat output (LED stays cool)
• Buzzing noise from the panel that changed with image brightness
• Red tint on screen from AR filter
• "Dirty screen effect" from poor AR filter bonding
• Poor screen uniformity on black (clouding)
• Screen dimmed over time when static elements were visible. (eg playing a game, watching sports)

If viewing angles are not an issue, LED LCDs have the potential to be better than them in almost every regard. I am much happier with my HX900 than I ever was with any of the three Kuros I tried. (8/9/9.5G)

The HX900 was a Sharp LCD with Sony processing and design. If Sharp got the processing right with this, it should be just as good or better once properly calibrated. Having that yellow us pixel unnecessarily complicates things though.

If you think THX looks good, things should be even better if you can get it pro calibrated to a pure 2.4 gamma. (THX is 2.2 for some inexplicable reason)

I thought 2.2 was the "ideal" target for most tv's. I do understand, currently, there is no standard for a "correct" target (i.e. 2.2 vs 2.4 vs 2.6) of gamma.

should we start a sticky on the top of this thread to which MHT have these sets on display to help members out?

There was a big topic over in one of the projector forums a few days ago about this. In short, the broadcast monitors that the content is made on use 2.4 gamma, so that is what your display should be set to.

2.2 is for PCs/games.

From what I've seen it's very minimal and certainly a lot less than my 929.

Sharp must of pulled that rep out of the cracker jack box....wtf...

ok you have an interview with the tv almost out of focus 70% of time and the other 30 you see maybe 3/4 of the screen. Thats oh so helpful !!!

I haven't seen that thread, but I do remember reading that broadcast tv's (crt based) were set at 2.4. However, I'm curious to know how many professional calibrators actually calibrate to 2.4. I know my tv's have been calibrated to about 2.2-2.27 gamma by a well respected calibrator. And from what I've read on the calibration forums, it seems like most calibrate to around 2.2 as does CNET.

Seems like many calibrators go for 2.2 and that might be why Sharp decided to set the THX at 2.2.

I'm perplexed by your constant kuro bashing that it's almost becoming "trolling", and ironically froustylou was saying how he perceive it being better than kuro. I always give posters the benefit of doubt so maybe you can post this issue for the coming VE shootout IF you are remotely interested on what the PROFESSIONALS say about your points (which some are valid as no displays are perfect but I think your primary focus is on static sharpness)

And are your kuros professionally calibrated or you calibrate yourself again?

Read in another forum that the set uses Pioneer IR codes.

Hi, has anyone attempted to calibrate the ISF modes? or any other calibration on the 70 inch Elite?

Thanks

Most do calibrate to 2.2 (especially if they are THX certified) I don't know anyone THX certified to ask, but I believe the THX standard just calls for a minimum of 2.2 gamma, but every THX certified display on the market is calibrated to 2.2 gamma.

What puzzles me is why THX settled on that number when the monitors the content was created on, run at 2.4 gamma. Perhaps they just think it's the best compromise for a home environment where you may not be watching the TV in the dimmed viewing conditions 2.4 gamma requires.


Right, I was just listing off the problems that the Kuros had, that these should not suffer from.
People put them up on some pedestal like they're the perfect display, but the only thing they did really well, was black level compared to other flat panels at the time. They'll still beat any local-dimming LCD when it comes to ANSI contrast, and do not suffer from haloing. (it's simply unavoidable with local-dimmed LCDs right now, even these will show it from time to time)

Personally I feel that Sony's HX900 range last year already "beat" the Kuros by some margin, and they were a Sharp LCD with Sony processing & design.
If Sharp got the image processing right, there is no reason these should not be as good or better than the HX900 range, and surpassing the Kuros. (but this time they have the Elite name, so maybe Kuro owners will actually pay attention...)


Not at all, but it is essential that a display can properly resolve its native resolution, and adding significant amounts of dither/noise to the source is a completely unacceptable thing for a display to do as well, in my opinion.

The motion resolution of modern LCDs with scanning backlights is sufficient enough that it is no longer an issue. There is still room for improvement, but the image is still relatively sharp in motion, without the rainbowing of DLP or phosphor trailing of PDP. (what use is sharp motion when the picture splits into three sharp images?)


They were calibrated by myself with Calman professional, an i1Pro and a profiled Chroma 5. Just because I do not have a few thousand dollars and a week of my time spare to pass the ISF/THX training courses (I also have no intention of doing this for a living) does not mean I don't know what I'm doing, however. I've had an ISF certified calibrator verify my work on other displays. He also had the same results with his own 9G Kuro. (but half the problems listed there didn't bother him)

I have had measurements provided to me from another calibrator as well, and it has long been his opinion that while the Kuros had better black levels, the Panasonic professional panels were much better displays overall when coupled with a good VP. (personally I would just avoid PDP though, the finer aspects of image quality just aren't there)

Once we have displays all coming well calibrated from the factory, with sufficient controls for calibrators to go in and tweak them to perfection (we're getting there) the focus will shift onto looking at these other aspects of image quality, rather than simply "does greyscale track decently across 11 points and gamut look ok at 100% saturation"
You can have two displays that measure identically using those standard checks, but images that look drastically different, or a display that measures better in those tests, but puts out a worse image to the eye.

If there are brighter pictureelements near the black areas of a moviescene, a local dimming set simply cannot beat a 9G in respects of black level.

Agree so do you trust the VE shootout then?

BTW "analog" images in real life are not sharp (no pun intended). They are soft.

Some reading on gamma:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post18920963

Thanks for the link. I remember reading that thread a while ago. Great information.

Funny, one reading this would think the Kuro was one of the worst displays ever built. Isn't revisionist history great?

Truly awe-inspiring.

What a bunch of horse ****, burn in after a few hours of gaming? Dirty screen effect?
Not sharp enough?
Never seen any of this in real time viewing, however I do see blooming and blue tinged blacks on my friend's HX909. Still an awesome display but come on, I can see changes in contrast by just moving a foot and you are complaining about BS flickering and poor motion on a plasma?
And Game mode and PC input remove all the processing so you get a much sharper picture which only benefits reading text when browsing the internet but never burn in on my KRP-500M.


Sorry everyone, any other professional reviews of the Sharp Elite besides Kevin Miller?

Yeah, I wish I had an extra $8K Maybe one day...

Sheesh. Sounds like a truly horrible TV.

Its any wonder why anyone would try surpassing the kuros 3 years running.

I would love to go there and see it, but it's half a world away unfortunately.

It will definitely be interesting to see the conclusions that are reached, but nothing will convince me that the Kuros are a high-end display, despite them doing well on certain tests. If you sit far enough away, you can miss a lot of these issues. (though I could never get far enough back to where I didn't see the dithering)

Yes, but we are not dealing with analog images any more, we are dealing with digital signals that have a "correct" way to be displayed. There is no excuse for a "soft" digital image, it simply isn't being displayed correctly.

And before anyone jumps in, I am not talking about an artificially sharpened image, I am talking about reproducing the source accurately.
I scanned over the topic, the conclusion they seem to reach is that there is no defined standard (which is true) but that a properly set up CRT studio monitor measures around 2.4 gamma. (also true)

That, combined with the fact that Sony's new OLED BVM-E reference monitors use a pure 2.4 power curve for Rec. 709 (due the analog nature of CRT, it was not a perfect 2.4) should make it pretty clear what you should be calibrating to if you want to match the displays the content was created on.

I've been saying this since the day I bought a 5080XD (with the 8G, I didn't get a 1080p panel) then the 9G and 9.5G after it. At least the 9/9.5G had a decent black level, I couldn't believe that people were praising the 8G.

So for me at least, it isn't revisionist.

They weren't terrible displays by any means, but I don't think they were at all worthy of the cult following they have surrounding them, especially the 8G.

Yes. It faded, but never went away.
A number of people have had letterbox bars burned in.
There was even someone over at the UK AVForums with a large dark band across the bottom of his screen from watching subtitles on all his films.

A few quick google results:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1113122
http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasm...en-effect.html
http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasm...lasma-tvs.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1122873

It can never be eliminated, and blooming is very obvious with things like a pause icon on a black background, but it is negligible in most program content.

That "blue-tinged blacks" thing is a result of miscalibration and/or not having local dimming enabled.

Different things are a problem to different people. I couldn't care less if the picture went jet black if I moved a foot to the side, I only watch the screen straight on.

The flickering and motion trailing gave me very bad headaches.

And you get stuck at 60Hz. I can't remember if it also locked you into the wide gamut mode or not as well.


And it's funny how Pioneer owners always try and turn things around rather than actually refute any of these points. (hint: it's because they're all true)

I don't experience not one thing on that list you mentioned. Not arguing. Just saying.

And this "kuro fanboy" stuff is getting old (not specifically talking to you by the way). Can't anyone make a comment without being called that? Its funny cause, as i mentioned before, the sharp elite owners are making similar comments about the elite that kuro owners got called fanboys for.

Its funny.

Really? There ALL true? You don't say! Wow. And to think all this time I've been watching various material on my PRO-101FD, including massive hours of gaming (massive) and I haven't encountered a single problem wrong with my TV, nor has my calibrator (a well respected and highly qualified member of these forums), even during his second visit last week to do a 2500 hour ISF touch-up. Guess he was just blowing smoke up my a** all the times he said a calibrated Kuro still impresses him to this day of all the TV's (Plasma, LCD, LED, RPTV, CRT) he has had experience calibrating. Guess it's time to sell now that I know all of the problems I have been ignoring

Not noticing an issue is not the same as it not being there.

To claim there is an issue without it being noticed/presented/observed means there is no issue for said set. Are you trying to tell me my Kuro has a whole list of issues just because you say they are there?

Note: even you had to notice said issues for them to be, well, an issue. So your statement is flawed. Unless your omnipotent. Or woke up one day believing everything someone else was telling you about your own set, such as the manner you seem to be doing now to other people.