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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 145

post #4321 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhudleson View Post

The Spears and Munsil disc has a sharpness pattern that is very revealing. The default 0 sharpness setting of the Elite shows lines with crisp edges, but one step up the lines begin to show evidence of ringing. To each his own, but I leave my sharpness at 0 to avoid introducing any artifacts.

Yes, I've used it and see it with a click up on test patterns. But with actual program content, I don't see it. I use the test patterns first and then check further with program material.
post #4322 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yes, I've used it and see it with a click up on test patterns. But with actual program content, I don't see it. I use the test patterns first and then check further with program material.

Ken, did you use this calibration disk to come up with your "Movie THX" mode settings?
I was wondering how you actually came up with the CMS settings that everyone is using.
Was it by your eye compared to your Kuro, or via a calibration disk with blue and red filters?

I am using your settings and it looks great. Just wondering how you came up with them.
post #4323 of 14509
Do any of you who DONT have the pulsing problem watch Boardwalk Empire? The pulsing happens at some point in at least a few scenes. It usually happens in Sons of Anarchy and Dexter as well(just to name a few).

Who ISNT getting the pulsing using LOCAL DIMMING(not IVC) on in THX?(Besides Ken)

I can minimize with IVC low but I feel like the best picture I can get is a few ticks off of Kens with standard Local Dimming on(THX).

If it is truly the TV that has the the "bug" then it is an easy fix to have Sharp switch it out. I will learn to live with some DSE and I could give a crap about the "cyan" issue. I think the only people who really care about the "cyan" issue are people who dont own the TV!
post #4324 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Ken, did you use this calibration disk to come up with your "Movie THX" mode settings?
I was wondering how you actually came up with the CMS settings that everyone is using.
Was it by your eye compared to your Kuro, or via a calibration disk with blue and red filters?

I am using your settings and it looks great. Just wondering how you came up with them.

Yup, it was about 10,000 jogs between my Kuro and my Elite using material on my DVR. I worked off about 20 lbs in the process.
post #4325 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

My guess is that there won't be any shockers at CES this go-around, but who knows? Perhaps Panny comes out with their next gen plasma with improved black levels? Probably, since that seems to be an annual event anyway. Of course as is usually the case with any 'breakthrough' product or 'things CES' in general, is when and if a given product actually ships or materializes.

But hey, Mark, your mental gymnastics of the moment has always been your approach and the logic is tough to dispute.

The real question is do you want the best or are you OK with settling. Everyone's tolerance for settling is different, look at my wife, she married me.

I have the two best Elite dealers in cyberspace on my speed dial. In the event there is nothing new to see, I'll be able to address my delays in short order.

You know I'm not a big fan of settling, but I guess my concern is that as good as the Elites are, I find the existing flaw significant enough that another 4 weeks is not going to make or break my TV viewing this season. And perhaps by then, we'll hear more about whether they are going to address it. I don't really want to be in a position where we're debating which scenes have the background pulsing in 2016.

To be honest, the only reason I didn't buy the VT30 in the early part of 2011 was that the fluctuating brightness issue was obviously real (to me and others). By the time it was addressed, things like the Elite existed. Paralysis by analysis. yes?

But I'm not concerned with getting new, just something without a flaw that's going to be with me terribly long. If that means go cheap and go back into the breach in 2014, so be it. If it means I know next month the Elite is where it needs to be -- for me -- to get me 5+ years into the future, also fine. I had gotten there on the Elite, ironically enough, until the fairly substantial litany of complaints had mounted up. And while I appreciate your comments about not experiencing these problems in THX mode, for example, I'm not persuaded I want to be mode-limited to avoid a problem.

(Note to all: I am 99% convinced the color problems will be resolved, so that's not affecting my calculus at all. I'm just sharing these thoughts with everyone as CES is so very close.)
post #4326 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Ken, did you use this calibration disk to come up with your "Movie THX" mode settings?
I was wondering how you actually came up with the CMS settings that everyone is using.
Was it by your eye compared to your Kuro, or via a calibration disk with blue and red filters?

I am using your settings and it looks great. Just wondering how you came up with them.

Just wanted to mention for all who are using Ken's settings to make sure they use the revised list of them. Blue saturation at -10 wasn't listed at first and it was that change that really made these settings click for me.

Ken, thanks again for sharing your killer settings!

best,
Tom
post #4327 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by trcnet View Post


Just wanted to mention for all who are using Ken's settings to make sure they use the revised list of them. Blue saturation at -10 wasn't listed at first and it was that change that really made these settings click for me.

Ken, thanks again for sharing your killer settings!

best,
Tom

I think we need a complete posting of the settings or a sticky
post #4328 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Me neither

I have NEVER seen any pulsing either. I have watched many Blu-Rays and HD content and have yet to have seen it. Today I played with Dark Knight and no matter what mode I was in and with local dimming on and off I did NOT have any pulsing.
post #4329 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by treky11 View Post

I have NEVER seen any pulsing either. I have watched many Blu-Rays and HD content and have yet to have seen it. Today I played with Dark Knight and no matter what mode I was in and with local dimming on and off I did NOT have any pulsing.

I'm convinced Dark Knight isn't the best movie to watch to reproduce the issue. I've seen the pulsing and it was hard for me to see the issue in that movie even with suboptimal settings.
post #4330 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yes, I've used it and see it with a click up on test patterns. But with actual program content, I don't see it. I use the test patterns first and then check further with program material.

If Sharpness is left at a setting where ringing is present on a test pattern, ringing will also be on content. You might not see it, but it's there, and it's degrading the picture.
post #4331 of 14509
Right on.
post #4332 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


If Sharpness is left at a setting where ringing is present on a test pattern, ringing will also be on content. You might not see it, but it's there, and it's degrading the picture.

For anyone wondering what a purist is, THAT is a statement from a purist. Even if you can't see the degradation, it's still there. I' not pickin', cuz I'm the same way; but it does make one wonder "Why?". I have several thousand dollars worth of Audioquest analog and digital cables, and in all honesty I'll probably never hear ALL of the distortions they are NOT introducing to my A/V signal (and please don't try to debate me about whether or not high-end digital cables can make a difference), but it's nice to know that my cables will always be able to resolve more than any components I will probably ever be able to afford. Psst...it's called placebo, and it works wonders.
post #4333 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

For anyone wondering what a purist is, THAT is a statement from a purist. Even if you can't see the degradation, it's still there.

The way I'd say it is that test patterns are designed to isolate and make visible things that may be obscured in ordinary content. That doesn't mean you can't see it, it means that the effect is not clearly identifiable as "that artifact you see there is caused by the sharpness setting being too high."

In real content multiple things are going on simultaneously to produce the image, all of which have greater or lesser accuracy. Each aspect that is incorrectly adjusted contributes.

Hmmmm. That kind of sounds like the sort of thing a purist would say, doesn't it?
post #4334 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post


The way I'd say it is that test patterns are designed to isolate and make visible things that may be obscured in ordinary content. That doesn't mean you can't see it, it means that the effect is not clearly identifiable as "that artifact you see there is caused by the sharpness setting being too high."

In real content multiple things are going on simultaneously to produce the image, all of which have greater or lesser accuracy. Each aspect that is incorrectly adjusted contributes.

Hmmmm. That kind of sounds like the sort of thing a purist would say, doesn't it?

I will have to agree with you, even with the snide little poke at the end. Jolly good, Sir. Jolly good.
post #4335 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

If Sharpness is left at a setting where ringing is present on a test pattern, ringing will also be on content. You might not see it, but it's there, and it's degrading the picture.

I'm sure that's true, but the ringing at one click up with a test pattern is very slight. But I do think it adds a bit of 'apparent' detail to the picture. But that's just my taste.
post #4336 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulder_bum View Post

I'm convinced Dark Knight isn't the best movie to watch to reproduce the issue. I've seen the pulsing and it was hard for me to see the issue in that movie even with suboptimal settings.


I finally got this movie and watched it. It exhibited the same pulsing I have been seeing. It actually shows up mutiple times in the first minutes of the movie and of course the infamous courtroom scene.

That said, I agree with you that I have seen much worse in other cases.
post #4337 of 14509
Which scene are you guys talking about from the dark knight? The scene when Harvey disarms the guy on the stand in the beginning? Or the scene when the judge is flipping through papers and the joker card falls out of the stack?
post #4338 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Over the weekend, I was able to test two Blu-Ray discs that exhibit the pulsing background issue that I'm seeing with my set. The details of the movies and my TV settings are below.

The Dark Knight
13:50 - 15:35
Courtroom walls in the background

AV Mode - Movie
IVC - Local Dimming On
OPC - Off
Backlight - -4
Contrast - +23
Brightness - +3
Motion Enhancement - FluidMotion
Gamma - 0
Everything else is default or Off

Let Me In
1:26:31 - 1:26:40
On the right side of the screen, on the door and door frame

Same settings as above except...
IVC - Advanced Low
Backlight +16


These reports have been submitted to Elite engineers.

The scenes above...
post #4339 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

For anyone wondering what a purist is, THAT is a statement from a purist. ... Psst...it's called placebo, and it works wonders.

I observe two amazing things about your post:

1) Your level of self-awareness is off the charts vs. many here. Props for that, sincerely.
2) The placebo effect is so amazing it works when you know you are being given a placebo. How great is that? Check this out for more: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...re-in-the-mind

Enjoy your gear.
post #4340 of 14509
For those waiting to see what CES will summon to compete with this amazing display, HDGURU reports that OLED will finally make its mainstream debut next year via LG and Samsung. Not trying to hijack the thread, but this should be interesting.
post #4341 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

For those waiting to see what CES will summon to compete with this amazing display, HDGURU reports that OLED will finally make its mainstream debut next year via LG and Samsung. Not trying to hijack the thread, but this should be interesting.

While always interesting, I still say a 70 inch OLED is s LONG way off. But then again I hope im wrong
post #4342 of 14509
Yes, sadly, the only OLEDs that are going to be shown are going to (a) max at 55" and (b) likely be astronomically priced. Oh, and (c) buying them in 2012 is unlikely. It's exciting that it's coming, but the Rogo household can't accept a mere 55" at this point, nor can it wait till 2013.

Back to the Elite, though!
post #4343 of 14509
Oh pls cool down be4 one can see what kind of OLEDs are those: LG opted for an OLED panel made up of over 6 million white light emitting diodes. This is much the same as the infamous "LED" TVs in shops. Now there will be "OLED" TVs but these are same old LCD TVs with OLED backlight guys.

Rumor says only Samsung will bring genuine OLED but let's see.
post #4344 of 14509
Are most people seeing DSE with their set? The picture has been absolutely phenomenal...up until I tried to watch a hockey game last night. Also caught it on a fast pan of the mountains in Capt. America. It's bad enough to pull you out of the movie and makes watching hockey difficult.

If this is a rarity I'll ask them to replace it, because its not acceptable in my eyes. I just don't want to get into a cycle of hoping the replacement is better than my existing one. Not sure I could stomach the idea of returning it...this has been easily the best TV I've ever watched, even with this issue.
post #4345 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffs2 View Post

Are most people seeing DSE with their set? The picture has been absolutely phenomenal...up until I tried to watch a hockey game last night. Also caught it on a fast pan of the mountains in Capt. America. It's bad enough to pull you out of the movie and makes watching hockey difficult.

If this is a rarity I'll ask them to replace it, because its not acceptable in my eyes. I just don't want to get into a cycle of hoping the replacement is better than my existing one. Not sure I could stomach the idea of returning it...this has been easily the best TV I've ever watched, even with this issue.

For me, and as a hockey/sports fan, yes it is an issue. I'm on my second set (one replacement), and a second replacement (third set) is coming today. Sharp already has a third replacement on order in case this one exhibits the same issue, but I may ask for a refund if this set coming does not address the issue. It is very annoying, but yes, when watching non-sports content that generally does not have uniform backgrounds and back-and-forth panning (which reveals DSE in all it's glory), it's a great set. But the DSE makes it unacceptable, especially at this price point.
post #4346 of 14509
OK, I'll ask.... what is "DSE"?

Thanks
post #4347 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

OK, I'll ask.... what is "DSE"?

Thanks

It's been defined multiple times recently in this thread. Dirty Screen Effect.
post #4348 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

It's been defined multiple times recently in this thread. Dirty Screen Effect.


Well, you answered my question, and I thank you for that, but like a lot of people I do not have the time to read 3000 posts to find an answer to a question.

If the question annoys you, don't respond. If you want to answer a question, please do so without the snide comment. Thanks
post #4349 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

For me, and as a hockey/sports fan, yes it is an issue. I'm on my second set (one replacement), and a second replacement (third set) is coming today. Sharp already has a third replacement on order in case this one exhibits the same issue, but I may ask for a refund if this set coming does not address the issue. It is very annoying, but yes, when watching non-sports content that generally does not have uniform backgrounds and back-and-forth panning (which reveals DSE in all it's glory), it's a great set. But the DSE makes it unacceptable, especially at this price point.

I'm confused...did you change your RS50 to a 70" Elite, or you are running both?
post #4350 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannus View Post

Well, you answered my question, and I thank you for that, but like a lot of people I do not have the time to read 3000 posts to find an answer to a question.

If the question annoys you, don't respond. If you want to answer a question, please do so without the snide comment. Thanks

Its not snide. the point was to take a look and you'll get some more details.
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