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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 181

post #5401 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken ross View Post

ya see! Look at how hard that cyan word is to see!!! :d :d

haha!
post #5402 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

Ken Ross: now that we NY'ers finally have the FiOS 1.9 update how do you feel the Elite handles the new teal/cyan'ish colors in the Guide and Menu settings?

It's so bad I can't even see the menu! Is there a new menu?

Seriously Titus, not knowing exactly how the menu should look, I have no idea. But I do like the new menu, I think the colors are striking...my wife not so much. She only saw it on the bedroom Kuro as she was leaving for work this morning, but she felt the old menu had more contrast. I kind of like it and I think it looks better on the Elite than on my Kuro 950.

Unfortunately I disconnected my Pro 151's FIOS receiver the other day to hook it up to a Slingbox for my son. So I can't check it out at this point on that display.

How do you find it?
post #5403 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Hey D-nice,
Did you miss the part where D.K. Gave the Elite a 9.4 out of 10?

No.
Quote:


Obviously, the cyan error didn't bother him too much.

Another assumption. Email him. He will respond.
post #5404 of 14509
I obviously have no current life ATM since I'm still posting here. I'm a techie and always install the latest firmware and drivers by compulsion, need it or not. But I'm a software architect/developer, build my own workstation, have several RAID volumes, overclock, bla-bla so I'm not the usual customer.

The Elite updates are a breeze as previously stated assuming you have the internet connection, which set up itself automatically to my surprise with no help from me after I plugged in the cable. But I also have a bricked Radiance-XD I need to ship back to Lumagen when I get back for un-bricking due to a crappy serial F/W update calamity. Having said that, that is the only problem I've ever had in my scores of update attempts over the years.
post #5405 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhudleson View Post

So my dilemma (and maybe some other Elite owners too) is that I'm chomping at the bit to have my set calibrated, but have been delaying doing do because of the promised firmware update. It's looking more and more like the update is not going to happen, if you read the undercurrent in this forum. If I go ahead and have the calibration done, and then somewhere down the line Sharp releases a cyan update, how would this affect the calibration? You would think that the impact would be minimal, if at all, but do I want to chance ruining a calibration by allowing an update to overwrite the firmware that was in place during the calibration? Maybe the best option would be to disable the auto update feature until this whole thing can be sorted out later. I doubt that there's an answer to my question, but I thought I would pose it anyway.

I would at least wait until the end of this week when we will hopefully hear from Robert at the conclusion of his meeting with Sharp Engineering. We may get a go or no go at that point.

But yes, if you calibrate now and get the update later, you will need to have the display recalibrated.
post #5406 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

The panels may both be Gen-10, but they are not the same electronics & software, not to mention the ability to hand-pick for the Elite.

I don't agree simply because the statement has no basis in fact. You are making assumptions or regurgitating something you heard someone say. Can you quantify what "hand-pick" means and what standards they use? Because there are plenty of people here who have received more than 3-4 exchanges due to dead/stuck pixels. If these were truly "hand-picked", why are they arriving with the same panel issues experienced by owners of the much less expensive 60" and 70" Sharp models? Just a wild and crazy coincidence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

But if the Costco version looks the same to you, I'm happy you'll save all that money.

That's not what I said, and I already own an Elite with which I am very happy. It's funny how you assume that I thought the cheaper Costco Sharp TV looks the same to me when I was simply saying that they are largely the same TV internally with the exception of full array local dimming - and I will bet you dollars to donuts that this is true regardless of which TV people do or don't like.
post #5407 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It's so bad I can't even see the menu! Is there a new menu?

Seriously Titus, not knowing exactly how the menu should look, I have no idea. But I do like the new menu, I think the colors are striking...my wife not so much. She only saw it on the bedroom Kuro as she was leaving for work this morning, but she felt the old menu had more contrast. I kind of like it and I think it looks better on the Elite than on my Kuro 950.

Unfortunately I disconnected my Pro 151's FIOS receiver the other day to hook it up to a Slingbox for my son. So I can't check it out at this point on that display.

How do you find it?

I like it...could use a bit more contrast but I'm fine with the new color scheme, font etc...more importantly I like that I can finally hook up my 1TB external drive and use Native passthrough

weird that the first thing I thought about after seeing the new colors was the cyan issue and how the Elite would handle it
post #5408 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

... Unlike some who feel its perfectly fine to download any and all updates (just because), I've been around long enough to know, understand and appreciate the slogan "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

OK, so is the Elite broke (as well as the owner now ) and we fix it, or not? Just making conversation here ...

BTW, I'm still waiting for FIOS here in Queens, but the blues in the previous DirecTV menus looked fine. The new very blackish HD menus are nice in some ways but I don't like the more vertical layout - too many clicks.
post #5409 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

Agreed. I initially liked Elite Pure because it gave me the cooler, contrasty image that I enjoy. I've said over and over again that THX mode is too yellow, but I should frame that statement in context. You see, I am tied to a computer screen for 8-12 hours per day. I have become accustomed to the cooler white color temperature of the LCDs that I use, and find that type of image to be more pleasing simply because that's what my eyes are trained for and accustomed to seeing every day. Anything warmer than that feels yellow and "wrong", whereas others here say THX mode is awesome. Frame of reference has a lot to do with how we react to the images we see.

I will say that CNET's THX settings are the best so far. In non-THX movie mode I had to dial down the red and blue saturation a bit, as those colors seemed hot. I would probably boost the red saturation in the CNET settings just a little bit. I've been watching things more and more in THX mode to get used to a warmer color temperature. I'm acclimating!

What i can say is that my uncalibrated Elite beats the pants off a calibrated DLP set that met every critical ISF standard when it was calibrated. So numbers don't always tell the whole story.

AZREO, I've always told people that there is an acclamation period if you've never had your display ISF'd. Most people are used to a too blue picture and upon first seeing an ISF'd display, it just looks wrong to them. Like you said, it's what you're used to.

But I'll tell you, once you're acclimated to the ISF look, looking at one that hasn't been ISF'd generally looks too blue since that tends to be the setting that people are coming from. It almost becomes 'disturbing' to look at.
post #5410 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The point I keep trying to make is that you are essentially throwing out the baby with the bathwater. You can't get past this one cyan error. There are so many other incredible qualities of the Elite and some that are far better than that of the Kuro, whether or not a standard addresses it. Other reviewers (all reviewers actually) are able to get past it, but reading your comments, you can't get past it and condemn the entire display because of it.

+1

If the Elite TV was Cindy Crawford, the calibrators would call her seriously flawed an unappealing because of her beauty mark. In most cases a mole is considered a fault, but when you have so many other attractive, compensating factors around it then the mole doesn't seem like such a big deal.

How is this any different?
post #5411 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Is it the best LED LCD out there. Yep. Does it have outstanding black levels and dynamic range? Yep. Does it quality to be in my home? Hell no. Why? Because, it cannot get cyan correct when and where it needs to. I guess I have higher standards than you because I actually do care to see colors the way the Director wanted me to see them.

And all directors shoot their movies to comply with ISF calibration standards? You said it yourself - it is the best LCD out there which you refuse to put in your home because it renders cyan slightly more blue than it should according to your calibration charts, numbers, etc. That seems to be like cutting off your nose to spite your face, doesn't it? I mean honestly, you would prefer a TV with very visible and objectionable blooming to a TV which renders cyan a little blue? But wait, the director didn't intend for his or her content to be displayed with blooming... and wait, didn't the director intend for blacks to look black and not dark grey? Come on.
post #5412 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Point im making is TV's, both LCD's and plasma, hardly effect energy bills. At least mine anyway. My samsung LCD didn't really add anything to my bill. When i got my kuro, samething. I didn't really notice a change. I just don't believe in these "energy saving" TV's.

Well since some are so in to the #s game, it's hard to refute the actual energy costs of a large screen plasma like my 151 with the meager energy use of an Elite.

Even if you refused to believe the #s on these stickers, the heat produced by the Kuro, and I'm talking noticeable room-warming heat, prove the amount of energy being used. I don't even need to consult those energy guides. Heat=Energy unless someone has figured out how to defy the laws of physics.

OTOH, if I walk into the room where the Elite is, it contributes absolutely no noticeable heat to the room, none. Between the total absence of noise and the total absence of heat, you just wouldn't know it's on.
post #5413 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Read every single post I've provided in this thread over the past 3 days. The ONLY negative item I've discussed in thread was the tracking of cyan and the impacts of said tracking with content. I even provide references to material where even Stevie Wonder can point out the difference. Whether one likes or dislikes the end result of the cyan tracking errors on these displays is subjective and I want no part of that type of discussion.

The terms "serious", "issue(s)', etc., all deal with the color cyan.

Still having a hell of a time seeing that word 'cyan'.
post #5414 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Where have you been? I did send an email to both D-Nice and Kevin. D-Nice has responded here, Kevin is at CES and most likely tied up... It's really that easy to ask a question directly to them and not make assumptions about their motives and thoughts.

That should put a rest to the intentions pre shootout from one of them!

Sharp needs to fix the issue, those low scores would change IMO...

Regardless of who participates in this forum, I believe I'm still entitled to an opinion whether or not you agree with it. I don't believe I need to run my opinion by the people whom I have an opinion about in order to determine if my opinion is correct in advance of posting it. If people disagree with my opinion, they are free to say so. That's why this is called a FORUM.
post #5415 of 14509
I just came from the eye doctor who told me I have 20/10 vision but see through rose colored Elite eyes ;-)

All kidding, people will see what they want to see. We are all wired differently. To try and assimilate an experience for this tv is going to be difficult. D-nice might be color blind for all we know ;-)

At the end of the day, different strokes for different folks. Not sure why this is a constant topic

That said. I have enjoyed my set and will continue cyan fix or not.
post #5416 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You wish. You might want to keep comments on things you do not know to yourself. I will embarrass you.

Oh c'mon D-Nice, you know that was a joke.
post #5417 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

If I have known about these two issues before I bought the set, I wouldn't have bought it. Who's to blame? Probably me for wanting to be one of the first owners of the Elite 70" and not waiting for more reports from actual owners. But I mostly blame Sharp....

Why don't you ask Sharp to buy back your TV if you are so unhappy with it? And if they refuse, take them to court - you certainly seem to have a lot of evidence with regard to how Sharp misrepresented this TV that you should easily win. There is no reason for you to keep an expensive TV that you're not happy with.

Respectfully, I don't recall ever seeing Sharp call this a "reference TV" or state that it was perfect. The cover of their brochure says "Picture Perfect", which is a colloquialism. You'd have a much stronger case if the brochure said "Perfect Picture" - that is making a claim.
post #5418 of 14509
all this cyan-xiety could have easily been rectified if Sharp just released a color fix...even if they just released it as a private download like Panasonic did recently with the VT30 color luminance fix...not available as an auto download firmware through your TV settings but rather a separate website link
post #5419 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Ha! Good question. Lets add this.... This update is would not be available for automatic download. The owner would have to go to their website and download it.

If that was the only change to the firmware I don't think i would bother. Now if they upgraded the YouTube app to something that's actually usable, I would definitely download an update and install it myself. But just for the cyan fix? Nah.
post #5420 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

And all directors shoot their movies to comply with ISF calibration standards?



the ISF does not make the 'standards'..
post #5421 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No harm done. It just urks the hell out me when LCD owners attempt to throw "power" into the equation. Looking at the big picture... you know... like you Sharp Elite owner say one should do when discussing CYAN.... its a drop in the bucket.

Now we are even

Wait a minute, the word CYAN looks blue on my screen... CRAP!
post #5422 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

It was a simple question. If the update was made available and the only way to get it was to go online and manually download it, would you do it? If that update only addressed the cyan tracking and nothing more, why would you do it if you do not find a problem with the current color performance?

Unlike some who feel its perfectly fine to download any and all updates (just because), I've been around long enough to know, understand and appreciate the slogan "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Remember, this is the question I responded to: "Question for you elite owners. If sharp released the firmware for the color fix today would you guys go through the trouble and update?"

That's why I said there's no trouble. There were no qualifiers on how the update should be performed in that question. The Elite does an automatic download and it's up to the owner to press OK to install. So there's no trouble at all. A very nice way to perform updates.

To address your scenario (which is not the manner in which the Elite receives its updates), you know me better than that. Of course I'd do it, but maybe I'd wait for others to do it first.

Seriously though, because I don't see the issue in the vast majority of programming doesn't mean I still don't strive for perfection. If I can get what I already feel is the best picture on the market slightly better, why not? But that surely doesn't indicate that I or others feel there is such a deficiency. If I can get another 1% out of the display with an update, I'll do it.

I happen to agree with you though that sometimes updates fix one thing and break another. If I never installed the update for fear of breaking something, no biggie. But historically I've been fortunate with updates, rarely rarely has anything gone awry for me with the many updates I've installed.

Besides, it will do my heart good to see the glass blocks on the Today Show in their proper shade of cyan.
post #5423 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

You can take a group of people outside for 10 minutes, bring them back in and ask them what the weather was like. 1 will say it was warm, 1 will say it was cool, 1 will say it was sunny, 1 will say it was partly cloudy, 1 will say it was windy and so on. My thermometer will give me the exact temperature, my anemometer will give me the exact wind speed, and so on. The actual readings are unbiased, while human perception is biased.

But whether or not we actually enjoy our experiences is defined by our perceptions, not by scientific readings.
post #5424 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

I like it...could use a bit more contrast but I'm fine with the new color scheme, font etc...more importantly I like that I can finally hook up my 1TB external drive and use Native passthrough

weird that the first thing I thought about after seeing the new colors was the cyan issue and how the Elite would handle it

Yup. I also like the fact that the new setup allows every STB to see both DVRs if you do have two.
post #5425 of 14509
the last few pages of this thread actually did more to convince me to purchase the Elite then any of the other 180 pages...I now believe that certain people are placing way too much emphasis on the cyan issue at the expense of the Elite as a whole...once the price drops to what I deem acceptable ($3500'ish for the 60") I will most likely look to purchase one

re-reading some of the other reputable reviews from Tom Norton, Kevin Miller and even Cnet makes me feel confident I will love the display
post #5426 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

+1

If the Elite TV was Cindy Crawford, the calibrators would call her seriously flawed an unappealing because of her beauty mark. In most cases a mole is considered a fault, but when you have so many other attractive, compensating factors around it then the mole doesn't seem like such a big deal.

How is this any different?

Yeah, Cindy would have to be carted out along with the Elite for tomorrow's garbage pick up! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
post #5427 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I even provide references to material where even Stevie Wonder can point out the difference.

Wow, that's quite a color issue LOL
post #5428 of 14509
I see the Cyan Issue continues... I also see there's no fix as of yet. Not good. Good thing the Jacksonville Jaguars & the Miami Dolphins aren't in the NFL Playoffs..

The bottom line is manufacturers need to do a better job getting secondary colors up to standard, especially if they are gonna charge the amount they are charging for sets nowadays
post #5429 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

My electric bill was $198.00 last month. That includes the gas heater. Don't even attempt to go spew the "green" BS LCD owners love to do. I don't attempt to save $40 per year for enjoying my displays when I can, and have, save thousands by addressing the real electric guzzlers (i.e. hot water heater, windows, insulation, appliances).

I think you mean energy bill instead of electric bill if you have a gas heater.

At any rate, the problem with inefficiency is more about pollution than money.

$40 in electricity is about 170 lbs. of CO2, which is about what three adult trees can absorb in a year. Granted, lighting and heating matter more, but I'm all for efficient TVs and I do think it's a significant downside of plasma.

For what it's worth, I also have solar panels on my house and there are months I manage to be a net producer of electricity. I couldn't do that without a focus on efficiency.
post #5430 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

all this cyan-xiety could have easily been rectified if Sharp just released a color fix...even if they just released it as a private download like Panasonic did recently with the VT30 color luminance fix...not available as an auto download firmware through your TV settings but rather a separate website link

Now that's REALLY good, 'cyan-xiety'.
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