Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 202

Originally Posted by gene9p


oh they have all they need..you can bet on it, what they don't have is an answer.I would think at this point the only solution would be to build a tv from scratch and test it at several points of the build to see when the monster rears it's ugly head.It could be a part as well as the software or a combo.One thing is for sure, they are not doing it for you, so don't be fooled, they are doing it for themselves.If they don't find the answer it will be there in the 2012 model as well.

Originally Posted by gene9p

tv's usually use the same engineering from year to year with a tweak here and a tweak there so it's the newer improved version of last year's model.In this case it's in the heart of the build and programming so it has to be found out to prevent a re-occurrence. Right now it would appear the are having trouble putting their finger on it. It has been nearly 4 months since the Reps got caught with their pants down and blurted out "FW update" that Saturday night at the shootout. I didn't fall for it that night, call it a gut feeling. but you could tell they were making that up as they were not techs but sales reps.

You can bet they are making an all out effort to find a correction before production of the 2012 ELITE.

Originally Posted by TitusTroy


the same Sharp rep that said that a fix would be released within a month

being optimistic is one thing but it's been over 3 months now, with new models on their way...I highly doubt Sharp is going to spend time and resources fixing something from a discontinued product line...first it was 1 month, then Robert said it's in legal and pending release, then we heard definitely within 2 weeks etc etc...the old saying "don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining' comes to mind

Originally Posted by hhtatum

Ya but.....

If rmongiovi is using the exact same set up with exact same settings and saw the pulsing on the old set and not the new set, this suggests it is the TV itself. My thought(ie random, uniformed guess) is that Sharp may be testing for the pulsing on TV's that dont exhibit the problem.

Originally Posted by Wizziwig

I totally understand you wanting to enjoy the set and not worry about issues. But if curiosity gets the better of you, please test the clip from "The American" I posted in this thread in Elite Pure mode.

Originally Posted by N3W813

I can confirm from my calibrations that 2pt settings are independent of the 10pt settings; they do not affect each other whatsoever. Basically, this kind of invalidates all credibility of the cnet calibration settings....for me at least.......(how can a pro calibrator miss this????) :s

Originally Posted by thrang

My concern, besides the DSE issue, (for which I'm on my third set now and counting), is color.

The set's end user CMS controls are not well implemented it appears, and behave in non-linear ways with unexpected HSL adjustment results. Sharp has said as much to me, in that the end user CMS controls are not meant for a thorough/complete calibration of the panel, but I'm still not clear why Sharp would provide those level of controls but then not properly enable or code them. I found that every color mode (THX, Movie, etc) with local dimming off, read very low pre-cal saturation levels.

I did enable the ISF mode and tried calibration using those CMS controls (using Chromapure and a DIII), and discovered the color tracking at different stims was horrendous for primaries and secondaries (at times 25/50 or 50/75 stims for colors almost overlapping, far from their target and color shifted as well. The calibration report (either using 75 or 100% cal patterns) looks excellent, but because of how poor the set is tracking color, the results are less than optimal.

Now, I don't pretend to be a pro, but I've spent a lot of time patiently learning this process, and have had superb numerical and visual results using the same calibration set up with my VPL VW95 projector.

I'm having some followup conversations with Tom Huffman of Chromapure, who had come by my home a month or so ago, and who was not satisfied with the results of his work that evening (albeit the first time he had worked with that panel). If I read his recent post correctly in the Chromapure forum correctly, he has a another client who experienced similar color issues with this panel.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21502249

Not sure what is occurring here, and am interested if anyone else here has had the opportunity to do a detailed Chromapure or Calman type of calibration on this panel, either with the end user CMS or ISF CMS mode.

Originally Posted by AnotherDude

As you say, how could someone who knows this business think otherwise?

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Keep in mind this is not a discontinued product line. The current Elite is still very much in production. The next Elite is not due out until September at the earliest. If it actually winds up using a different panel, it wouldn't surprise me if that date slips as so often happens with many new models.

So the current Elite will be the only Elite for the bulk of this year. That much you can pretty much bank on.

As to the fix for the current model, we shall see.

Originally Posted by pinktri

Love cnet settings. Great definition an perfect brightness but yellow seem a bit well, too yellow. Has anyone else tweaked cnet settings to reduce this?

Originally Posted by N3W813

I can confirm from my calibrations that 2pt settings are independent of the 10pt settings; they do not affect each other whatsoever. Basically, this kind of invalidates all credibility of the cnet calibration settings....for me at least.......(how can a pro calibrator miss this????) :s

Originally Posted by TitusTroy


what I meant by saying that the current Elite's are 'discontinued' is that the product has almost reached EOL (End of Life)...when that happens a manufacturer chooses to focus on the new models and dedicates most of their resources and man power to the new production models...this happens months in advance of the product actually making it to market...there might be a small team still working on legacy models but not enough where a color decoding issue would be still in the works...if some major issue that effects non-videophiles was detected then yes a fix would be rolled out but I highly doubt that a cyan color fix firmware will be treated with the same priority

a cyan fix will most likely only be rolled out with the new 2012 models...all this BS about a fix is coming soon, within 1 month, we'll talk about it with Robert at CES etc is all BS...how on Earth could they possibly chat about it with a person at CES and still realistically be expected to come out with a fix anytime soon?...that would mean that they havn't even started work on this...and no offense but Robert Zohn is a small dealer and not some major player who has enough pull to get Sharp or anyone else to do major product fixes

Ken, you are optimistic about the cyan fix but when it came to the recent FiOS 1.9 update you were way more pessimistic...when in theory the FiOS fix was way more likely then any cyan one

Originally Posted by TitusTroy


Ken, you are optimistic about the cyan fix but when it came to the recent FiOS 1.9 update you were way more pessimistic...when in theory the FiOS fix was way more likely then any cyan one

Originally Posted by Suzook


Hate to to burst your " I think everyrhing is bs" bubble but Robert is EXTREMELY well regarded despite his size. He was the only dealer invited to the Sharp press event in NYC when they formally announced these sets. He also opened the press event with his remarks. He also saw pre preductions models at Sharp in NJ before anyone else..

Originally Posted by burgersa

Pinktri, try this. Go back into the Advanced sub-menu and then in Color Temp, turn 10 Point Setting to off. The drop down box is no longer grayed out. In the box, set Color Temp from Low to either Middle Low or Middle, your preference. Turn 10 Point Settings back On.

This will make the picture less yellow, and may be more satisfying to you.

Steve

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

You're talking about two different issues here. At the shootout, a fix for the cyan issue was discussed, not the pulsing. Unlike you however, I do believe they've been working toward a cyan fix for the current model. I'm still optimistic they'll come up with it, but if not, as owners agree, it won't be the end of the world. This simply doesn't detract from your viewing enjoyment.

I honestly think the greatest impact of a cyan fix would be to silence critics, not increase the viewing enjoyment for owners to any significant degree.

Originally Posted by thrang

My concern, besides the DSE issue, (for which I'm on my third set now and counting), is color.

The set's end user CMS controls are not well implemented it appears, and behave in non-linear ways with unexpected HSL adjustment results. Sharp has said as much to me, in that the end user CMS controls are not meant for a thorough/complete calibration of the panel, but I'm still not clear why Sharp would provide those level of controls but then not properly enable or code them. I found that every color mode (THX, Movie, etc) with local dimming off, read very low pre-cal saturation levels.

I did enable the ISF mode and tried calibration using those CMS controls (using Chromapure and a DIII), and discovered the color tracking at different stims was horrendous for primaries and secondaries (at times 25/50 or 50/75 stims for colors almost overlapping, far from their target and color shifted as well. The calibration report (either using 75 or 100% cal patterns) looks excellent, but because of how poor the set is tracking color, the results are less than optimal.

Now, I don't pretend to be a pro, but I've spent a lot of time patiently learning this process, and have had superb numerical and visual results using the same calibration set up with my VPL VW95 projector.

I'm having some followup conversations with Tom Huffman of Chromapure, who had come by my home a month or so ago, and who was not satisfied with the results of his work that evening (albeit the first time he had worked with that panel). If I read his recent post correctly in the Chromapure forum correctly, he has a another client who experienced similar color issues with this panel.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21502249

Not sure what is occurring here, and am interested if anyone else here has had the opportunity to do a detailed Chromapure or Calman type of calibration on this panel, either with the end user CMS or ISF CMS mode.

Originally Posted by AnotherDude

I think we're missing C-Net's point here (emphasis on "I think" ...). I believe they did two different calibrations, one two-point and one 10-point, and posted their settings for both, you pick which one works better for you. If a TV set has both entered, it will use whichever one is selected at the moment. But if you enter the 2-point, then activate the 10-point option and don't enter anything, it's basically just switching off the 2-point values and using no WB compensation. As you say, how could someone who knows this business think otherwise?

Originally Posted by dsinger

Regarding color tracking, check out post 5486, page 183 where D-Nice posted his results. Other than cyan those results look good to me. Perhaps Tom should talk to D-Nice.

Originally Posted by pinktri

Steve big thanks, I will try it when I get home later tonight. I appreciate it. what I have tried; performing the CNET settings and seeing it's a little to yellow would go back and change the color temp but things looked too blue. I never thought of changing the color temp with the 10pt settings off then going back and turning it on. This could be what I was missing.

Originally Posted by hhtatum

I just tried this. Turning 10pt off and changing color temp absolutely changes the image. However turning 10pt back on does absolutely nothing to change the image.

I got a little lost on the discussion regarding the 2pt/10pt and whats on and off but on my TV, with CNET settings for color, it isnt changing the image turning 10pt on and off.

Originally Posted by pinktri

hmmm....I guess there goes that. I'll give it a try this evening and report back. In the mean time, I've really become used to the cnet settings and love the brightness and image quality but definitely notice a little yellow push. If anyone has any other suggestions on how to resolve this I would appreciate it. I've tried to calibrate with my WOW disc but changing the hue, value and sat doesn't seem to help much. I believe it's the 10pt settings causing the push

Originally Posted by Weaselboy

I just tried the same thing and got the same results you did (with CNet settings). 10pt on/off does nothing and color temp does.

Originally Posted by burgersa

Pinktri, try this. Go back into the Advanced sub-menu and then in Color Temp, turn 10 Point Setting to off. The drop down box is no longer grayed out. In the box, set Color Temp from Low to either Middle Low or Middle, your preference. Turn 10 Point Settings back On.

This will make the picture less yellow, and may be more satisfying to you.

Steve

Originally Posted by hhtatum

Dont despair yet. You may like the picture better by simply changing the color temp to mid-low or mid.

Its funny, I do get the "yellow" push on some of the programming I watch on Direct TV but not when I watch Blurays.

Originally Posted by dsinger

Ken: Thanks for all your responses to the critics. Without your efforts, a casual reader would get a much poorer impression of this fine set. Regarding those critics, if the cyan issue is fixed, they will first question if it really has been fixed and once that's proven move on to the pushing the pulsing issue.