Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 203

Great question! You would probably want to consider an ISF calibration or try it yourself. Of course I'd first wait for the fix and see if it 'really' looks that different. Since the error is very tough to spot in the first place, you may well find that the fix doesn't change things very much.

When I had DirecTV, I saw a definite difference in one model of STB to another. I well remember when a new D* STB came out, I got it and found it had a very definite red push as opposed to the old one.

So your observations may well show a push on the part of the box.

Yes, rmongovi is right. If you put in both 2pt and 10pt settings from CNET, switching 10pt on/off of course would not show any difference....both settings are calibrated to the same standards

To see a difference, reset the 2pt settings back to defaults, display a greyscale test pattern, then flip the 10pt on and off and you will definitely see a difference. You won't need a meter, you can see this pretty easily with the naked eye. (You can put the 2pt settings back after you are done with the test)

Just a theory....I'm beginning to think the color decoding may not be limited to just cyan, I think it may be related to blue. Because in my calibrations, I see issues with both cyan and magenta, but magenta more so than cyan. I'm an DIY amateur so I have no proof to back this up....just reporting what I see (and measured) with my set. :P

If both C-Net settings (2 & 10-point) are entered, tracking should be close or the same either way. It's only if you enter one and not the other when you'll see a difference switching back & forth.

The 10 & 2-point settings modify whichever Color Temp setting (low, med, etc.) you have selected. I'm not sure why the Color Temp setting is disabled when 10-point is selected though, since if you experiment you painly see that the 10-point settings ride on top of the Color Temp selected.

How tall is he?

Some content has this - I remember one of the Transporter sequels (2 I think) on DVD had a very distinguishable yellow push I did not like.

Thanks for the information. IF in fact the 10 point settings ride on top of the color temp can anyone confirm what temp was used during the cnet calibration. I've looked it over many many times and see no color temp selected. I was under the impression that when you use the 10 point setting, the color temp is some sort of default (not low, med, or high) temp and did not ride on top of the selected temp

here it is again:

AV MODE: MOVIE THX
Intelligent Variable Contrast: Local Dimming On
OPC: Off
Backlight: +1
Contrast: +32
Brightness: +1
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

--Advanced sub-menu

C.M.S. -Hue
R: 0
Y: +3
G: +4
C: +2
B: -3
M: +3

C.M.S. -Saturation
R: +3
Y: -2
G: -1
C: +1
B: +1
M: 0

C.M.S. -Value
R: +2
Y: +2
G: 0
C: -12
B: +3
M: -2

Color Temp sub-menu:
Color Temp.: [grayed out]

[10 Point Setting Off]
R Gain (LO): +1
G Gain (LO): -5
B Gain (LO): -3
R Gain (HI): +2
G Gain (HI): -4
B Gain (HI): -4

[10 Point Setting On]
Position +1: R Gain +2, G Gain 0, B Gain 0
Position +2: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -3
Position +3: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
Position +4: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -2
Position +5: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -4
Position +6: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -5
Position +7: R Gain -2, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
Position +8: R Gain -1, G Gain -6, B Gain -6
Position +9: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain +5
Position +10: R Gain 0, G Gain 0, B Gain -1

Motion Enhancement: 120Hz Low
Quad Pixel Plus: Off
Active Contrast: Off
Gamma Adjustment: 0
Film Mode: Off
Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Monochrome: Off
Range of OPC: [any]

I'm going to go with Low for the C-Net Color Temp - it's the one that gets you closest to the 6500K temperature normally used, and appears to be the default.

Looks like another owner has/had the same issue as myself (yellow cast). Although his question was never answered it pretty much confirms the 10pt setting rides on top of the color temp. I will try it on "middle" tonight and post back my results. I really would like to know what color temp was used, I'm sure it is LOW but would love to hear it from the horses mouth.

how is that any different from the Sharp rep at the Shootout claiming that a fix would be released within a month?...if anything that is worse because the FiOS update in NY was not given an official date...if you consider the 'FiOS is coming' message as an official confirmation then how do you not consider the numerous false 'cyan firmware is coming soon' messages as the same?...the only dates from Verizon were from unofficial channels...but the Sharp rep heightened expectations by promising a definite fix...the guy was pretty much admitting that there was an issue and that a fix was imminent

as far as EOL firmware updates...like I said in my previous post it definitely happens for issues affecting the wide user base...this cyan issue is only considered an issue by videophiles and not the mass market and that's why I don't think this will be given a firmware fix later on...if it was going to happen it would happen relatively soon...plus in general televisions do not get FW fixes as frequently as electronics such as Blu-ray players etc...you're lucky to see 1 or 2 in a TV's lifetime (and nowadays most of it has to do with application updates such as for Netflix etc and not any critical hardware/software issue)

I've said it many times that I do not think the cyan issue is a big deal BUT I also see people backtracking a bit in terms of their opinions on it now that it looks like we may never see this fix...Kevin Miller gave the Elite a 6 in terms of color accuracy at the Shootout...that says it all right there...if an F or D+ grade is now considered 'the best out there' because of its other fantastic attributes then I need to go back to school

Only time will tell if we'll see a full or partial fix, but....

Sharp developed a television and called it just "Elite", and priced it at more than twice the price of mass market televisions. Aren't videophiles actually the target audience?

Sharp's goal is not to market the 'perfect' TV...I'm sure they feel that the issue does not warrant a fix (even for the videophiles)

I also get a yellow push with these settings

Where can I get Ken's settings to try?

Your analysis is injust. how do you justify a grade that you gave for the overall total score. the color accuracy is just one catagory,and does not reflect the overall "grade" in which you are stating.

could be...we have to remember that us (videophiles) are the one percent of the mass market. yes i know, the elite is not targeted toward the "average joes", but other than a handful or so of individuals and maybe a little biting of the heel from Robert. i don't think there is to much heat to hurry up and fix this color issue. only time will tell...

Ken's settings
THX MODE
Local Dimming- On
OPC- Off
Backlight- Standard
Contrast +32
Brightness (-2)
Color +6
Tint 0
Sharpness +1

CMS Hue:
R (-4)
Y 0
G 0
C (-10)
B +10
M 0

CMS Saturation:
G +10
B (-10)
(all others at default)

CMS Value:
C (-5)
(all others at default)

Color Temp:
No changes

Motion Setting: Off

Precision Color: Off

Active Contrast: Off

Film: Off

DNR: Medium

Roy: D-Nice mentioned nothing about luminance issues. Given his obvious desire fro perfection in TVs, had luminance issues existed on the Elite, I am certain he would have told us about them, especially in the context of the "discussion" that was ongoing at that time.

Just curious to know (if someone can post a chart) how this Sharp unit performs on Grayscale and Gamma tracking when any local dimming modes are enabled?

How is it different? Because on my calendar 3 months is a whole lot shorter a time period than 1 year. And yes, seeing "A new FIOS is coming" on my STB is pretty official for me.


Look, I've got to tell you that you can sit here and conjecture all day if there will be an update, if there won't be an update, when the update will come, when the update won't come, etc etc. Personally I think this is a huge waste of time. We'll know when it comes when it comes or doesn't come. Until then your guess is as good as mine.

For those non-owners that think it's a big deal and don't think there will be a fix, the answer is simple: Don't buy the set. Can't get much easier than that. And if that's the case, move on to displays you ARE interested in.

As far as Kevin goes, I don't know how much clearer he could have made it that it's not a big deal. He said it's not a big deal. What else would you like the man to say??? That's why I quoted him directly from the other site. Will that stop people from saying what a big deal it is or misquoting or misconstruing what Kevin said? Sure won't, certainly not from non-owners.

Like I said, there is ZERO question in my mind that the biggest accomplishment of a cyan fix would be to finally put an end to this never-ending discussion of an issue that for people that own this display is a very minor issue. If a cyan issue arrives, certain naysayers will not be happy, I can guarantee it, but they'll find something else to condemn.

Nobody manufacturers the perfect TV, nobody. And guess what? They never will.

Let's sat cyanora till Sharp does something.

I'm not misquoting Kevin or anyone else...my only issue is the backtracking and revisionist history going on from certain people...be consistent...if you think the cyan issue is no big deal then so be it...Ken has been consistent from the beginning...but you have others that flip flop or are not consistent...how could Kevin Miller (who I like and respect) give the Elite a 6 for color accuracy (and I'm only talking about the cyan issue here) yet then say that the issue is no big deal...seems like those 2 statements contradict each other...unless failing grade= no big deal it doesn't make sense

if he felt it was no big deal then why not give the Elite at least an 8...with an 8 I could see his point about it not being really important...but by giving it a 60% grade you are saying it is pretty bad

the non-owners argument is getting silly as well...that has absolutely no relevance...ALL owners at one point were non-owners...so do they not get to post or have an opinion?...you don't need to be an owner to point out flaws or issues on anything...if owning a product was a requirement for having an opinion on it then forums would not exist...non-owners post with the intention of gathering info and making a potential future purchase

Kuro: "Elite, I am your father."
Elite: "NNNOOOOOOOOOOO!"

They could go to the plasma section and argue endlessly in the 2012 Panny thread about whether the silver accent strip on the VT50's makes them look better or worse!

I would assume his reasoning (and it's just a guess) is that yes, cyan is off and if you're a purist and giving a numerical grade, you'll be critical in your scoring. However it's entirely plausible that the color could be off, yet not be especially critical in terms of seeing the error or its impacting viewing enjoyment. I think that's what Kevin was implying. He said that cyan tracks perfectly fine at higher luminance values. So we're talking one color, not often seen and in a lower luminance range. Add those factors and it translates to not a big deal.


Oh, I don't think it's silly in the least, I really don't. How is it the people who were interested in this display, doing their due diligence before purchasing, obviously thought the color & picture had so much merit that they went on to purchase the Elite, not seeing the issue? And how is it that non-owners come here and tell us how bad this cyan error is, yet most have never seen it and certainly haven't been exposed to a fraction of the viewing material owners have?

What I find totally bewildering, is why some non-owners insist on trying to come up with every issue under the sun and yet continue to post here. We get it that some just don't like the display.

Think about it. If you found a display (or ANY piece of equipment) that you thought had so many issues or even one objectionable issue, why would you continue to come here and tell owners what a miserable display they have? What could be the possible motivations here?

We saw this same thing with the Kuros. People would come to those threads and essentially tell owners what fools they were for having bought such an expensive display that in their opinion wasn't so great.

Just asking, and not implying this is you. I can tell you for certain that any piece of equipment that I've been interested in, once I found an issue I couldn't live with, I'd move on. I certainly don't come back to those threads to tell the owners in so many words that their judgement was questionable.

Just an odd quirk of human nature in some that I'll never ever understand.

Yowser!

Oh and I'm sure that does go on Dave.

I thought DeWayne stated that most content does reside within those levels...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5551


it's also human nature to want to justify (in ones own mind) a premium high end purchase...buyers remorse is something that most people do not like admitting...giving credence to claims that ones purchase may not have been the best investment just adds to ones own buyers remorse...if I bought the Elite and now find out that a new 2nd gen model is coming out which supposedly fixes this cyan issue among other improvements it's only natural to feel a bit defensive

FYI..... from Kevin Miller

Where is that post of Kevin's?

Thanks