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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 286

post #8551 of 13287
5/9/12 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorg View Post

I'm trying to catch up on what the known issues are and their work arounds. I got a 70" recently and aside from the viewing angle issue (which I'm working on already), I'm not aware of any other problems with the set.

What are the known issues (link) and should I hold off on ISF calibration until the pulsating and cyan tint (?) issues are addressed?

Don't look for issues that you don't see. As I've said before, these forums have the potential to drive you crazy. If what you see is a great picture, then it's a great picture that you have.

To answer your question directly, there is a cyan color accuracy issue that's very difficult to see and only affects the color cyan and then only at lower luminance levels. Most never see it. In virtually all programming I watch, I simply don't see it (and I was the first to report on it, so I'm far from being in denial). Bottom line? Don't worry about it. I had my display ISF'd, so it didn't dissuade me. .

The other issue, pulsing, has already been partially addressed by Sharp via a software update. This has mitigated the pulsing issue to a large degree. Of course this assumes you had the issue to begin with. In my case I could see it in modes other than THX or ISF modes, but the issue disappeared in THX and ISF modes (even prior to the update). Those were the only two modes I used anyway. Again, if you don't see it you probably don't have it.

Sit back and enjoy the best picture out there.
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post #8552 of 13287
5/9/12 at 9:34pm
I agree with Ken. I too wanted to search the issues/problems others where reporting. Good thing I decided not to, or else I would probably be looking to find them. It would have been distraction. Like he said sit back and enjoy it. I have been enjoying mine for a week now.
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post #8553 of 13287
5/9/12 at 10:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by max1 View Post

I agree with Ken. I too wanted to search the issues/problems others where reporting. Good thing I decided not to, or else I would probably be looking to find them. It would have been distraction. Like he said sit back and enjoy it. I have been enjoying mine for a week now.

Ditto, just got the 70" installed today and quite frankly, I was so captivated by the beautiful picture and rich color that I totally forgot about all the issues I was obsessing on. These guys are giving sound advice, save yourself some hand wringing and enjoy the Elite ride.
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post #8554 of 13287
5/10/12 at 4:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross; View Post

Pcmag is far from the only professional review praising the Elite's color. It's always a bit amusing to me how these rave reviews bug some people. We saw the same thing during the Kuro days.

pcmag saying anything about HD TVs means very little, what my post was about

If i would own a Elite i would have accepted by now that it color isn't perfect. We know how DNice felt about Elite's color. Even ChadB who has been positive about the Sharp RGB+Y stuff writes that 'the Elite's color can never be accurate across all saturation and brightness levels'
( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=363 )

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post #8555 of 13287
5/10/12 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Even ChadB who has been positive about the Sharp RGB+Y stuff writes that 'the Elite's color can never be accurate across all saturation and brightness levels'
( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=363 )

Here is the full quote from ChadB's review.

Quote:
The Sharp Elite, which remains unchanged this year, has the VT50 beat in black levels and contrast; but it's off axis deterioration and the Dirty Screen Effect can be crippling. The Elite's color can be made pleasant enough with a good calibration, but it's color can never be accurate across all saturation and brightness levels.
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post #8556 of 13287
5/10/12 at 10:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

You probably haven't seen their top 10 HD TV's, pcmag is a joke

True, but I'll post part of the same reply I gave on HTS. "The fact remains that the majority of people who continue to review the ELITE don't seem to see a problem, and I find that very interesting."
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post #8557 of 13287
5/10/12 at 10:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post

Here is the full quote from ChadB's review.

I'm not saying that this is the case but sometimes professional calibrators depend to much on the numbers. There are situations where the numbers will say the color is perfect but it doesn't hold up true to the viewing experience. It's something to consider and always keep in mind.
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post #8558 of 13287
5/10/12 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

I'm not saying that this is the case but sometimes professional calibrators depend to much on the numbers. There are situations where the numbers will say the color is perfect but it doesn't hold up true to the viewing experience. It's something to consider and always keep in mind.

... and the good calibrators that I've met keep that in mind.

I haven't met Chad B, but I'm sure he does too.
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post #8559 of 13287
5/10/12 at 3:49pm
well if the cyan accuracy issue is due to their quattron tech that is in all their lcds, they better pull that commercial with the guy from star trek pretending to be a sharp engineer, and kill of the quattron tech as rgb seems to provide far better accuracy than rbgy.
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post #8560 of 13287
5/10/12 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It's always a bit amusing to me how these rave reviews bug some people. We saw the same thing during the Kuro days.

and it's amusing to me how negative comments, statements and reviews on the Elite bug some people and get them to rationalize or go into the head of that particular reviewer to psychoanalyze their 'true' motivations or reasons...yup I see the same thing with any TV...there will always be certain people who want to downplay any negatives for whatever reason
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post #8561 of 13287
5/10/12 at 4:49pm
I'm confused, does the Elite look very good because of quattron or in spite of quattron?
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post #8562 of 13287
5/10/12 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

i'm confused, does the elite look very good because of quattron or in spite of quattron?

yes
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post #8563 of 13287
5/10/12 at 7:26pm
Thanks for the clarification.
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post #8564 of 13287
5/10/12 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by max1 View Post

I agree with Ken. I too wanted to search the issues/problems others where reporting. Good thing I decided not to, or else I would probably be looking to find them. It would have been distraction. Like he said sit back and enjoy it. I have been enjoying mine for a week now.

Every set made has issues of one kind or another. This is the best plan. Not to mention the Elite is a VERY solid unit for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I haven't met Chad B, but I'm sure he does too.

He sure does, when he is just about all done. He watches his demo material and makes some adjustments if need be...... Chad B is kinda like Yoda, a master if you will, lol.
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post #8565 of 13287
5/10/12 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

pcmag saying anything about HD TVs means very little, what my post was about

If i would own a Elite i would have accepted by now that it color isn't perfect. We know how DNice felt about Elite's color. Even ChadB who has been positive about the Sharp RGB+Y stuff writes that 'the Elite's color can never be accurate across all saturation and brightness levels'
( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=363 )


I find the color to be very accurate overall and you'll find more reviewers agreeing with that than the opposing voices of D-Nice (who IMO did not serve himself well in his arguments) and Chad. Is cyan off at lower luminance levels? Yes. That's it, period. To try to extrapolate that to a general 'the Elite's colors are inaccurate' is both an embellishment and over simplification of a far more minor color issue.

Add to that the fact that cyan, particularly at the lower luminance levels where the accuracy suffers, is simply not often seen, and you begin to see why most reviewers praise the color, not knock it.
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post #8566 of 13287
5/10/12 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post


I'm not saying that this is the case but sometimes professional calibrators depend to much on the numbers. There are situations where the numbers will say the color is perfect but it doesn't hold up true to the viewing experience. It's something to consider and always keep in mind.

Absolutely true Rad, and when you talk about a single color such as cyan at lower luminance levels, it's even more true. But you can always count on this old issue behind dredged up by a few whenever a great review is quoted. As I said before, just as during the Kuro days, these superlative 'best display' reviews drive some non-owners nuts.
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post #8567 of 13287
5/10/12 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post


and it's amusing to me how negative comments, statements and reviews on the Elite bug some people and get them to rationalize or go into the head of that particular reviewer to psychoanalyze their 'true' motivations or reasons...yup I see the same thing with any TV...there will always be certain people who want to downplay any negatives for whatever reason

Don't think I've read such negative professional reviews on the Elite. Can you provide us with a link?
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post #8568 of 13287
5/10/12 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

I'm confused, does the Elite look very good because of quattron or in spite of quattron?

It just looks great period. I have no idea how they got there, nor do I particularly care.
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post #8569 of 13287
5/10/12 at 8:24pm
Ken, i thought you could unconfuse me - we need to hear from the men in the white coats.
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post #8570 of 13287
5/10/12 at 8:41pm
As a former Elite owner, I would concur with Chad's summary - the dse was bad on three units I had, and color tracking was well below average (Tom Huffman found similar issues on two visits to try and understand the set)

To me, the poor color tracking is why the image can sometimes appear over or undersaturaed depending upon content (excessive yellow was common, other times shifted or pale skin tones)

The internal cms is not fully functional, as certain controls have limited effective range, and/or have incorrect interrelationships...(ie adjusting a certain sat or lightness was affecting other primaries)

The ISF mode absurdly lock you out of any adjustments, even motion/film mode settings, which makes switching between various source types and accessing the optimal settings impossible.
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post #8571 of 13287
5/11/12 at 3:22am
I think one of the biggest reasons why content can appear over or under saturated is because content varies all over the board. I've seen that on my Kuros and every other display I've ever owned. Production styles vary from an overall over-saturation on shows like Miami to overly blue and under-saturated shows like The Killing to deliberately soft and out-of-focus shows like NCIS. Not only does the overall character of these shows vary, but scenes within the shows vary as the director establishes a mood based on the scene.

I've never seen a different rendition on my Elite as opposed to my two (now one) Kuros.

If these 'issues' were so bad, professional reviews would have picked up on this. I've yet to read one that did. In fact their comments are 180 degrees different than that, with most going out of their way to praise color. I've certainly never owned a display where I thought the color was better.
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post #8572 of 13287
5/11/12 at 4:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I think one of the biggest reasons why content can appear over or under saturated is because content varies all over the board. I've seen that on my Kuros and every other display I've ever owned. Production styles vary from an overall over-saturation on shows like Miami to overly blue and under-saturated shows like The Killing to deliberately soft and out-of-focus shows like NCIS. Not only does the overall character of these shows vary, but scenes within the shows vary as the director establishes a mood based on the scene.

I've never seen a different rendition on my Elite as opposed to my two (now one) Kuros.

If these 'issues' were so bad, professional reviews would have picked up on this. I've yet to read one that did. In fact their comments are 180 degrees different than that, with most going out of their way to praise color. I've certainly never owned a display where I thought the color was better.


I appreciate this reality, but the variances were much more pronounced with the Elite than any other set I've owned. A five year old non calibrated 52" Samsung doesn't accentuate these content variances like the Elite, and my Sony 1000 projector out of the box has much more realistic color; paired with a Lumagen mini 3d, it is nothing short of incredible (as was their less costly 95 ES which I owned prior)

I did pair the Elite with a Lumagen as well, but the color decoding in the set itself is sufficiently creaky that similar tracking errors were present.

Greyscale however calibrated extremely well on the Elite..

What am I using now? Don't laugh, but a 2012 non-Elite 70 inch sharp (847 I think is th model). Color is moderately better, no DSE at all. Black are poorer, and it still has tracking issues, but it did not cost an arm and a leg and for everyday viewing, this set works well. If I were heavy into watching films as opposed to a mix of tv and sports, I would miss the blacks on the Elite more, no question. But I could never get past the color and dse issues, at that price point.
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post #8573 of 13287
5/11/12 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken ross View Post

i think one of the biggest reasons why content can appear over or under saturated is because content varies all over the board. I've seen that on my kuros and every other display i've ever owned. Production styles vary from an overall over-saturation on shows like miami to overly blue and under-saturated shows like the killing to deliberately soft and out-of-focus shows like ncis. Not only does the overall character of these shows vary, but scenes within the shows vary as the director establishes a mood based on the scene.

I've never seen a different rendition on my elite as opposed to my two (now one) kuros.

If these 'issues' were so bad, professional reviews would have picked up on this. I've yet to read one that did. In fact their comments are 180 degrees different than that, with most going out of their way to praise color. i've certainly never owned a display where i thought the color was better.

+1
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post #8574 of 13287
5/11/12 at 10:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by niualaals94 View Post

When you add up the the superior picture quality, deeper blacks, superior viewing in daytime lighting conditions, lower power consumption, the 3D ability, the fact it is actually available and especially the 10 extra inche

True, and it's sad how some choose to focus only the weekness and neglect to share any strengths. We all know that no display will never be perfect heck I wish the ELITE had better off-axis viewing, but that's just part of the LED technology. Now you of course could go Plasma or spend a fortune on one of those new OLED screens, but I promise you that both will have their own bag of worms to deal with. With all this said and done however I wouldn't trade for better off-axis viewing at the cost of my (deep inky black levels) or my retina burning whites etc! I Just love my ELITE!
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post #8575 of 13287
5/11/12 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Mike Fury View Post

Question for ISF calibrated Elite owners...

I'm watching the NY Rangers hockey game yesterday on ISF Day mode. The ice is yellow tinted. As a clear reference, it should be clearly white unless someone peed on it. Haha Have you noticed the same? I'm forced to watch it on something more natural and I feel pushed to watch it on User mode just cause the color is just not right on ISF.

It's the broadcast signal> I've seen several different Hockey Games where some ice is white and other blue tint and other yellow> this could be poor hardware de-ciphering all the colors.
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post #8576 of 13287
5/11/12 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I appreciate this reality, but the variances were much more pronounced with the Elite than any other set I've owned. A five year old non calibrated 52" Samsung doesn't accentuate these content variances like the Elite, and my Sony 1000 projector out of the box has much more realistic color; paired with a Lumagen mini 3d, it is nothing short of incredible (as was their less costly 95 ES which I owned prior)

I did pair the Elite with a Lumagen as well, but the color decoding in the set itself is sufficiently creaky that similar tracking errors were present.

Greyscale however calibrated extremely well on the Elite..

What am I using now? Don't laugh, but a 2012 non-Elite 70 inch sharp (847 I think is th model). Color is moderately better, no DSE at all. Black are poorer, and it still has tracking issues, but it did not cost an arm and a leg and for everyday viewing, this set works well. If I were heavy into watching films as opposed to a mix of tv and sports, I would miss the blacks on the Elite more, no question. But I could never get past the color and dse issues, at that price point.

I honestly have none of the issues you speak of and from what I read here, most owners don't either. Sorry you've had this trouble.
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post #8577 of 13287
5/11/12 at 1:39pm
This is a beautiful set, and obviously the best that can be found on the market actually after the Kuro.

It's extremely expensive (6K).

I believe most of people who bought this are ex-Kuro users, correct me if i'm wrong.

I'd love to have one of those, like i would have loved to have a Kuro back in the days. But i just cant spend that much money on a TV set. Too bad for me.
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post #8578 of 13287
5/11/12 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

This is a beautiful set, and obviously the best that can be found on the market actually after the Kuro.

It's extremely expensive (6K).

I believe most of people who bought this are ex-Kuro users, correct me if i'm wrong.

I'd love to have one of those, like i would have loved to have a Kuro back in the days. But i just cant spend that much money on a TV set. Too bad for me.

I never owned a Pioneer KURO, by the time I got back into the market for a new display they were no longer available. I'm glad it worked out this way though because I think the new ELITE is better then the KURO. Plus I now have a 70'' and I can't imagine going any smaller.
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post #8579 of 13287
5/11/12 at 2:47pm
I heard the blacks are even better than the Kuro's, which is amazing considering it's an LCD.

Sharp is demonstrating that LCD can also achieve a near perfect image, but at a high price though.

But Sharp was smarter than Pioneer, it's only produced proportionally to the demand, lowering production costs (for example, only available in the US at the moment, where the demand for the Kuro was highest i presume).

I believe the LCD will fall when OLED and AMOLED will rise, but in the mean time this is an exceptionally beautiful TV, and i envy you guys a lot.

PS: anyone to lend me 5k ?
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post #8580 of 13287
5/11/12 at 2:52pm
I'm just guessing here, but I would think it's hard to get so many individual light elements to have consistent light output. I might be wrong of course.
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