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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 291

post #8701 of 13284
5/18/12 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathelo View Post

Why worry about it when you can get a Roku supporting Netflix for under $100.00?

Louis

I agree. When streaming meets it's potential, then I'll do something exactly like that.

Right now, I'm happy with shinny disks and books.
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post #8702 of 13284
5/19/12 at 5:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathelo View Post

Why worry about it when you can get a Roku supporting Netflix for under $100.00?

Louis

My Elite has a better picture than my Roku. I believe it is 1080p but I know it is DD 5.1. The Oppo only does 720p from what I have read.

But that may be because the Roku is wireless and the Elite has a hard line.
Some HD shows look above DVD quality like 'The legend of the Seeker', closer to a blu-ray look.
'Downton Abby' looked more like a regular DVD.

Some HD shows have better transfers than others from the original.
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post #8703 of 13284
5/19/12 at 7:08am
Streaming today is a lot better than one would expect, Netflix 1080p
Streams with a high speed pipe to the Internet like FIOS can look better than cable HD and does in many cases, I'm amazed at how well shows like Glee look on Netflix, it's as good or even better than on cable HD, also VUDU HDX looks very close to bluray. I've been enjoying streaming and a lot of content very much lately with devices like the Roku XS and an old LG bluray player for VUDU HDX.
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post #8704 of 13284
5/19/12 at 7:34am
The drag about Netflix is, the newer movies can not be streamed I like Blockbuster for this reason
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Cleveland Plasma Insider
» Get the latest news and updates at the Cleveland Plasma sponsor page.
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post #8705 of 13284
5/19/12 at 9:51am
While on the subject of these streaming apps on the Elite... I cannot figure out why I don't get sound to my AVR with the VUDU app? I get it just fine with netflix, youtube etc... But not with the VUDU app. Anyone have any suggestions?
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post #8706 of 13284
5/19/12 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

My Elite has a better picture than my Roku. I believe it is 1080p but I know it is DD 5.1. The Oppo only does 720p from what I have read.

But that may be because the Roku is wireless and the Elite has a hard line.
Some HD shows look above DVD quality like 'The legend of the Seeker', closer to a blu-ray look.
'Downton Abby' looked more like a regular DVD.

Some HD shows have better transfers than others from the original.

The Elite is 1080p and DD 5.1 or the Roku?
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post #8707 of 13284
5/19/12 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post


The Elite is 1080p and DD 5.1 or the Roku?

The Elite is.
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post #8708 of 13284
5/19/12 at 8:16pm
Any news on who won the shootout today?
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post #8709 of 13284
5/19/12 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post

Any news on who won the shootout today?

Results will be at the end of tomorrow's meeting.
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post #8710 of 13284
5/19/12 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post


Results will be at the end of tomorrow's meeting.

It will be the VT50, put money on it. With the absurdly bad press the Elite has gotten over the cyan issue on these forums, there's no way it will win.
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post #8711 of 13284
5/19/12 at 8:58pm
Perhaps but with a 2nd shootout later this year and OLED in the mix, to quote Laugh In's Arte Johnson - "Very Interesting"
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post #8712 of 13284
5/19/12 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

Perhaps but with a 2nd shootout later this year and OLED in the mix, to quote Laugh In's Arte Johnson - "Very Interesting"

Once we know OLED has no significant issues, has better PQ than other techs and comes in reasonably priced home theater sizes (60" and over), I'll sit up and take notice. But I suspect that will still be 2-3 years.
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post #8713 of 13284
5/19/12 at 9:09pm
I'm really hoping the Elite rep gives us some news to get excited about - namely rgb and 80". As great as the VT50 is, 65" just isn't that big anymore.
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post #8714 of 13284
5/19/12 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It will be the VT50, put money on it. With the absurdly bad press the Elite has gotten over the cyan issue on these forums, there's no way it will win.

Why would that effect the people who are attending the shootout and vote on which display they think is best? I predict there will be mixed reviews for all the displays. Pick your poison.
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post #8715 of 13284
5/19/12 at 10:08pm
Plasmas will always come in last for me no matter how good the PQ. I'll take lcd's poorer off angle views, an over blown cyan issue, and the occasional flickering over possible burn in issues, and the constant worry about them any day. I realize I'm in the extreme minority, but I would never buy a plasma no matter the PQ, or the price. Yes I'm very biased...lol.
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post #8716 of 13284
5/19/12 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sick mother View Post

i'm really hoping the elite rep gives us some news to get excited about - namely rgb and 80". As great as the vt50 is, 65" just isn't that big anymore.

+1

I guess we will get some news right after or just before the 84" 4k LG comes out.... If it does... This year?
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post #8717 of 13284
5/20/12 at 1:15am
the Sharp manager mentioned at the Shootout that no further pulsing firmwares are planned...he stated that the last FW (2.17?) improved it a lot and that he believes that the issue is more from the source versus an issue specific to the Elite

the Elite got killed last night much more then last year...a lot more of its flaws seemed to be discussed...examples such as the removal of film grain and the edge enhancement (or was it DNR?) part that David Mackenzie brought up was interesting...he even showed this in actual content by showing a scene from MI: Ghost Protocol where you can see the loss of detail on Tom Cruise's face as he is panning around the room

and the issues brought up last night didn't even involve 'cyan'...there was a lot more brought up last night that had nothing to do with cyan color tracking
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post #8718 of 13284
5/20/12 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

the Sharp manager mentioned at the Shootout that no further pulsing firmwares are planned...he stated that the last FW (2.17?) improved it a lot and that he believes that the issue is more from the source versus an issue specific to the Elite

the Elite got killed last night much more then last year...a lot more of its flaws seemed to be discussed...examples such as the removal of film grain and the edge enhancement (or was it DNR?) part that David Mackenzie brought up was interesting...he even showed this in actual content by showing a scene from MI: Ghost Protocol where you can see the loss of detail on Tom Cruise's face as he is panning around the room

and the issues brought up last night didn't even involve 'cyan'...there was a lot more brought up last night that had nothing to do with cyan color tracking

Hmm... I was told this last week by Will at Elite support that there was another firmware fix for the pulsing issue coming soon...
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post #8719 of 13284
5/20/12 at 4:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Why would that effect the people who are attending the shootout and vote on which display they think is best? I predict there will be mixed reviews for all the displays. Pick your poison.

The power of persuasion can be very great. Especially when you demonstrate and focus on a flaw that with normal material most people would never notice. When you use test material geared to pointing out a flaw that under most conditions would never be seen, it will generally affect how people vote.
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post #8720 of 13284
5/20/12 at 5:08am
The Elite and VT50 will battle it out because the two tv's were the class of the field since the HX929 was left out but a terrible Panny was included. Will come down to the Elite cyan issue to the VT50 IR problem to see who wins since these were the two flaws that each set showed yesterday in the competition.
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post #8721 of 13284
5/20/12 at 5:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

the Sharp manager mentioned at the Shootout that no further pulsing firmwares are planned...he stated that the last FW (2.17?) improved it a lot and that he believes that the issue is more from the source versus an issue specific to the Elite

the Elite got killed last night much more then last year...a lot more of its flaws seemed to be discussed...examples such as the removal of film grain and the edge enhancement (or was it DNR?) part that David Mackenzie brought up was interesting...he even showed this in actual content by showing a scene from MI: Ghost Protocol where you can see the loss of detail on Tom Cruise's face as he is panning around the room

and the issues brought up last night didn't even involve 'cyan'...there was a lot more brought up last night that had nothing to do with cyan color tracking

Well this is precisely what I suggested would happen and aside from being busy this weekend, it was another reason I wasn't planning to go this year. This, IMO, is called 'revisionist history'. New products come out and all of a sudden issues that didn't exist in a prior product, magically do and are 'terrible'. Nobody saw these issues before on the Elite, no calibrator saw it or commented on it, none of the many professional reviews ever mentioned it, but now we have these 'new' major issues. This doesn't surprise anyone? Please.

I've watched tons of material and there is no edge enhancement. This is an exceedingly easy issue to see, especially with test patterns. Nobody saw it. I didn't see it when the patterns were up on my set.

DNR? That can be turned off. I never liked the effect of any of these 'dynamic' settings on any display I've ever used by any manufacturer. My advice to any display owner, if you see a setting with the word 'dynamic' in it, you're almost always better off turning it off.

Anyone that has had plasma, including Kuros like me, know that the Elite is actually sharper. It's very normal for detail to be lost with motion in film. In fact that's one of the things that makes film different from video. When there is too much detail in film with motion, it begins to take on the dreaded SOE. So I'm not sure what the point is here? Again this was never commented on by anyone, but bang, we have another 'major' issue. I've never noticed any difference with motion detail relative to my Kuro. But hey, if the Kuro was a current model, new 'issues' with it would probably be 'discovered'.

So, more importantly, does anyone have any more info on the 80" Elite?
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post #8722 of 13284
5/20/12 at 5:18am
So was the cyan issue was discussed yesterday? I'd be amazed if it weren't despite what another poster mentioned.
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post #8723 of 13284
5/20/12 at 5:26am
The Sharp Elite has no edge enhancement. That is the Panasonic VT50 you're thinking of.

Quote:


I've watched tons of material and there is no edge enhancement. This is an exceedingly easy issue to see, especially with test patterns. Nobody saw it. I didn't see it when the patterns were up on my set.

Correct.

Quote:


DNR? That can be turned off.

Not in the ISF modes, it can't. This is what I demonstrated last night. The THX Mode has it disabled. In the ISF modes, Kevin turned this feature OFF but the DNR is still present.

Quote:


Anyone that has had plasma, including Kuros like me, know that the Elite is actually sharper.

I think the Pioneer Elite PDPs had some high frequency roll-off, so your comment there would be correct. But that's not a limitation of PDP. PDP can easily reproduce all of a 1920x1080 signal, going up to the highest frequencies.

Quote:


It's very normal for detail to be lost with motion in film.

Depending on the shutter speed, yes, but we're talking about spatio-temporal noise reduction here, not natural in-camera motion blur.

I doubt it will be around for long though. Sharp were very receptive to this.

As for why this has only come up now and not before, I'm very sensitive to issues like this because I'm used to approving or rejecting telecine transfers and working on image cleanup. We don't have the Sharp Elite in Europe so I've not been aware of this before.

-David Mackenzie
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post #8724 of 13284
5/20/12 at 5:30am
^^ Ken: Some people seem to suffer from "panel envy".
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post #8725 of 13284
5/20/12 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Well this is precisely what I suggested would happen and aside from being busy this weekend, it was another reason I wasn't planning to go this year. This, IMO, is called 'revisionist history'. New products come out and all of a sudden issues that didn't exist in a prior product, magically do and are 'terrible'. Nobody saw these issues before on the Elite, no calibrator saw it or commented on it, none of the many professional reviews ever mentioned it, but now we have these 'new' major issues. This doesn't surprise anyone? Please.

I've watched tons of material and there is no edge enhancement. This is an exceedingly easy issue to see, especially with test patterns. Nobody saw it. I didn't see it when the patterns were up on my set.

DNR? That can be turned off. I never liked the effect of any of these 'dynamic' settings on any display I've ever used by any manufacturer. My advice to any display owner, if you see a setting with the word 'dynamic' in it, you're almost always better off turning it off.

Anyone that has had plasma, including Kuros like me, know that the Elite is actually sharper. It's very normal for detail to be lost with motion in film. In fact that's one of the things that makes film different from video. When there is too much detail in film with motion, it begins to take on the dreaded SOE. So I'm not sure what the point is here? Again this was never commented on by anyone, but bang, we have another 'major' issue. I've never noticed any difference with motion detail relative to my Kuro. But hey, if the Kuro was a current model, new 'issues' with it would probably be 'discovered'.

So, more importantly, does anyone have any more info on the 80" Elite?

Ken, your own incredulity should remind us that we truly cannot trust our golden eyes (patent pending). This is why we have science, because confirmation bias is so powerful.

I'm a KURO owner as well, and the best insight I can give is to just take comfort that there is no perfect display.
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post #8726 of 13284
5/20/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

The Sharp Elite has no edge enhancement. That is the Panasonic VT50 you're thinking of.

David, I was actually responding to our favorite "Elite knocking" poster who suggested there was EE on the Elite. I knew there wasn't any given how easy it is to spot. But I didn't realize the VT50 had it. I'm surprised there's no way to deal with this.
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post #8727 of 13284
5/20/12 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

Ken, your own incredulity should remind us that we truly cannot trust our golden eyes (patent pending). This is why we have science, because confirmation bias is so powerful.

I'm a KURO owner as well, and the best insight I can give is to just take comfort that there is no perfect display.

Well yes, I agree, there is no perfect display and every one has their own issues. However, your point about 'trusting' our eyes or ears does raise an issue I've often raised. There are many many times in both the audio & video world, where test instrument findings (yes, science ) says one thing, but our eyes or ears simply can't detect the anomalies that the instruments say are there.

It's at that point I say "Who cares". Yes, the anomalies are certainly there (assuming the instruments are measuring what they're supposed to be and they're calibrated properly), but if I can't see it or hear it, it makes no difference to me what the instruments imply. I am by no means suggesting we do away with calibrations and all those great plots & graphs we get (I have all my displays ISF'd), but I am saying there is a line that we cross where the instrumentation is simply more sensitive to issues that our eyes or ears would ever be. Thus, from a practical point, there really are no issues.

To me the real world is where it's at.
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post #8728 of 13284
5/20/12 at 7:29am
The cyan pattern was displayed briefly for about 20 secs and then it was gone, no one talked about it really and the chat room buzz was that it was rigged so that the Elite would not be trashed which I don't believe was the case at all. The chat room buzz was hilarious to read, everyone is so sensitive to this or that it's freaking funny...
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post #8729 of 13284
5/20/12 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

^^ Ken: Some people seem to suffer from "panel envy".

Yup. We have one poster here that goes out of his way to revel in any flaw that might be found in the Elite. What was really hysterical was when he couldn't contain his joy at the thought of one of our mods selling his 60" Elite. He 'thought' this was proof how flawed the panel was. Imagine his reaction when he found out that Mark was merely upgrading to a 70" Elite. Very funny.
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post #8730 of 13284
5/20/12 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Well yes, I agree, there is no perfect display and every one has their own issues. However, your point about 'trusting' our eyes or ears does raise an issue I've often raised. There are many many times in both the audio & video world, where test instrument findings (yes, science ) says one thing, but our eyes or ears simply can't detect the anomalies that the instruments say are there.

It's at that point I say "Who cares". Yes, the anomalies are certainly there (assuming the instruments are measuring what they're supposed to be and they're calibrated properly), but if I can't see it or hear it, it makes no difference to me what the instruments imply. I am by no means suggesting we do away with calibrations and all those great plots & graphs we get (I have all my displays ISF'd), but I am saying there is a line that we cross where the instrumentation is simply more sensitive to issues that our eyes or ears would ever be. Thus, from a practical point, there really are no issues.

To me the real world is where it's at.

Well, I think the point of some other posters who have seen issues depending on the material and content you watch (like the Today show or Tom Cruise) is a reminder that in the world where those anomalies are visible IS their real world, is it not?
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