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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 296

post #8851 of 13422
5/21/12 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dane1201 View Post

I asked this question before, but didn't get an answer. How do you sign out of the Netflix app on the Elite?

You did get an answer...go back a few pages.
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post #8852 of 13422
5/21/12 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Ok guys, I was at Best Buy earlier today checking out a 70". I plugged in cnet's settings and watched clips of Avatar on dvd (absolutely horrible) The Dark Knight, Iron Man and the last Harry Potter movie, all on blu-ray. The lighting was not favorable and the HT sound sucked (I've been spoiled), but man were those blacks gorgeous! I couldn't tell where the bezel ended and the screen began. The detail was also first rate. You could clearly see the veins in Voldemort's face and the tiniest detail in the masks of Joker's henchmen. Brilliant.

I was having a tough time trying to figure out if the color was off or the lighting was ruining it for me. It just didn't want to look natural. (Neither did anything else in there, so I'm figuring its a lighting issue). It wasn't a huge concern since I will get my next TV, whatever it ends up being, calibrated.

What i was most concerned with was motion. I set it at 120hz low and off to try both. Clearly better than any LCD I've ever seen, but not quite natural. I had every other setting at cnet's, which worries me it may be how the set is made. I am VERY accustomed to my DLP and how film-like everything looks. My question: is the Elite able to give a DLP/plasma-like motion appearance? Is there something else I could have/should have done? Would an ISF calibration "fix" this, or would it only improve color, detail, etc.?

Thanks in advance for the help.
John

PS The set is just screaming to be made in 80"+

I find the motion to be very plasma-like...at least compared to my Pro 151. Motion is buttery smooth. I don't use any of the motion enhancements. I disable everything. No film mode, no 120hz...nada.
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post #8853 of 13422
5/21/12 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

You twist his words!

Nope. He's calibrated several of my displays and we've had this discussion before. He has said that as have many reviewers of high end equipment (both audio & video).
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post #8854 of 13422
5/21/12 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Ok guys, I was at Best Buy earlier today checking out a 70". I plugged in cnet's settings and watched clips of Avatar on dvd (absolutely horrible) The Dark Knight, Iron Man and the last Harry Potter movie, all on blu-ray. The lighting was not favorable and the HT sound sucked (I've been spoiled), but man were those blacks gorgeous! I couldn't tell where the bezel ended and the screen began. The detail was also first rate. You could clearly see the veins in Voldemort's face and the tiniest detail in the masks of Joker's henchmen. Brilliant.

I was having a tough time trying to figure out if the color was off or the lighting was ruining it for me. It just didn't want to look natural. (Neither did anything else in there, so I'm figuring its a lighting issue). It wasn't a huge concern since I will get my next TV, whatever it ends up being, calibrated.

What i was most concerned with was motion. I set it at 120hz low and off to try both. Clearly better than any LCD I've ever seen, but not quite natural. I had every other setting at cnet's, which worries me it may be how the set is made. I am VERY accustomed to my DLP and how film-like everything looks. My question: is the Elite able to give a DLP/plasma-like motion appearance? Is there something else I could have/should have done? Would an ISF calibration "fix" this, or would it only improve color, detail, etc.?

Thanks in advance for the help.
John

PS The set is just screaming to be made in 80"+

I used the same settings (also in Best Buy) but had the motion part off and switched local dimming from on to the adv low. No, it does not handle motion like a plasma and coming from a plasma that was apparent immediately and while I agree it is not film-like I did not find it at all to be an issue in the content I tested so long as Film Mode was OFF! Tonight should tell me more but so far I have been fairly evenly divided between the VT50 and Elite with the VT50 getting the nod for motion and the Elite for blacks and contrast.
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post #8855 of 13422
5/21/12 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asokawow View Post

Fellow owners, this is my first post on the forums. I recently purchased the Elite 60''. I am being blown away by the TV everyday. Best TV I ever owned.

I do have a question though. I am trying to connect the TV to my desktop computer using an HDMI cable. However, my PC is not even recognizing the TV as a device. I have used my PC with my old Sony TV before without any issues. The old TV was detected without a hitch and worked perfectly using the same HDMI cable (with sound).

I have a custom assembled PC with NVIDIA GTX470 GPU's in SLI. I am hoping others might have successfully connected the TV to a PC before. I'm completely lost on what to do next.

Any suggestions would be really helpful.

PS - I have this HDMI cable. Not sure if it's relevant.

wwwamazoncom/gp/product/B003ES5ZRS

OK. Turning off SLI allows my PC to detect the TV. However, still not showing anything. The screen image is black.
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post #8856 of 13422
5/21/12 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asokawow View Post

OK. Turning off SLI allows my PC to detect the TV. However, still not showing anything. The screen image is black.

I think you have to go into the control panel for your video card & detect the Display . & then set-up the properties .. I'm a ATI guy so ,i'm not sure on the Nvdia stuff . might just take a reboot while the display is on & connected to the display
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post #8857 of 13422
5/21/12 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


I find the motion to be very plasma-like...at least compared to my Pro 151. Motion is buttery smooth. I don't use any of the motion enhancements. I disable everything. No film mode, no 120hz...nada.

Ken, did you have your set ISF calibrated? If so ,who did it and what differences did you see before and after? Did it affect motion?
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post #8858 of 13422
5/22/12 at 2:09am
I would also like to know about the calibration and specific changes are made from the cnet settings. I posted this in the shoot off thread but thought I'd share here too.

QUOTE="General Kenobi"]4 trips to Best Buy with a ton of BR discs and still can't decide if I like the VT or Elite best

I've been a plasma guy for the past 3+ years so you'd think this would be easier but there are things I really like about both and other things no so much.

The VT50 has better depth of image and a cleaner overall picture quality to my eyes with more natural motion. It also as a fairly noticeable flicker in 96hz mode (more than my Panny 58PZ850 in 48hz) and switching back and forth between the two the blacks just look a bit murky in the movies I brought in.

The Elite had amazing blacks and shadow detail with impressive contrast. The image did not have quiWere there any comments of concern about IR on the VT50?

It's never been an issue for me on my 2008 Panny 58PZ850 but if for some reason the VT50 does not handle it as well it could be an issue for me as majority of my content is movies (black bars and black bars sub titles) and gaming.[/quote]

Seems the VT deserves some. Ether settings and while I'm tempted to work with the 55" in he dark room it is not hooked up via hdmi so I can not access 96hz mode and inspect the degree of flicker in a dark room. I can't view any size Elite in a dark room
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post #8859 of 13422
5/22/12 at 4:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post


Ken, did you have your set ISF calibrated? If so ,who did it and what differences did you see before and after? Did it affect motion?

Yes, I had Kevin Miller ISF my Elite. It definitely improved the color that I had dialed in from the CNET settings. What it first did though was worsen the motion. Kevin had engaged 'Standard' for the film setting and I pointed out some motion issues that I hadn't seen prior. He was surprised and agreed to disengaged it. What I forgot to have him do was also disengage it in the other ISF mode, but I did that myself via ControlCal (a fantastic piece of software).

I think you can sometimes see some odd motion issues if you watch a ticker tape and have certain motion settings engaged. In my current configuration I see no motion issues and a buttery smooth ticker on any channel that has it.

With all motion enhancements disengaged, I find motion to be absolutely as smooth as any plasma I've owned, including the Kuro.
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post #8860 of 13422
5/22/12 at 4:36am
Ken's eyes are THX certified
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post #8861 of 13422
5/22/12 at 5:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

plasma is completely out of the question because of image retention issues that will always be there with that technology.

I've had a panasonic plasma for 10 years and have absolutely no image retention issues. At the Sunday shoot Dr Larry Webber also said how people's fear of image retention issues with plasma is largely unfounded (unless you really go out of your way to display the same still image with screen saver disabled for hours on end). He said that you can even cause image retention on LCDs if you try hard enough with certain image patterns. Basically you would have to torture your display to cause image retention.
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post #8862 of 13422
5/22/12 at 5:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

I was talking about the Center spot. The ELITE was placed to the far right off Center, there was no reason for this. Plasma's don't need a Center spot ether Top or Bottom, in my opinion I would put them off to the sides.

There were 3 plasmas and 3 lcd's, 4 side positions and 2 center positions. It's not possible to fit 3 lcd's into just 2 center positions unless what you really meant was that you felt the Elite should get the center position at the expense of either the Panasonic or the Samsung. In my opinion they made the right choice to put all the LCDs at eye level. The room is very small so no matter where you sit you are only at the optimal viewing angle for 2 TVs. We were encouraged to move around when judging.
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post #8863 of 13422
5/22/12 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

Ken's eyes are THX certified

Actually ISF certified Gary. I'm not always wowed by "THX certification".
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post #8864 of 13422
5/22/12 at 6:30am
Knew you would say that!
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post #8865 of 13422
5/22/12 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjwebb View Post

I've had a panasonic plasma for 10 years and have absolutely no image retention issues. At the Sunday shoot Dr Larry Webber also said how people's fear of image retention issues with plasma is largely unfounded (unless you really go out of your way to display the same still image with screen saver disabled for hours on end). He said that you can even cause image retention on LCDs if you try hard enough with certain image patterns. Basically you would have to torture your display to cause image retention.

Of course Mr. Webber would say that about plasma, I wouldn't expect any other answer from him. Like I've stated, I know it's not a guarantee, but the chance is still there, and it's one that is so much greater than on an LCD. I've personally never seen it on an lcd btw, but have on plasmas. All these experts, or companies (which are trying to sell you there plasmas btw) will say that IR is not an issue anymore, but facts are facts, we see it time and time again even on these forums where that's just not true. Oh and to be more clear, I only brought up possible IR because that is the reason I stay clear of plasma. Just the worry alone would annoy me. I've had an old Mitsu RP for about 8 years, and worried about IR on that, but never got it, so I know it is possible. But that doesn't mean I did things with that tv I now do with my lcd's, gaming longer, watching a lot of tv with big static logos etc... Not trying to steer others away from plasma at all, it's just a nightmare I personally don't wish to relive.
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post #8866 of 13422
5/22/12 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

I would guess that he's refering to the technology in general. Yes IR is and always will be a real issue with plasmas. No surprise there.

Hasn't been an issue with my 9G KURO since day one. You're exaggerating a little, I think.
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post #8867 of 13422
5/22/12 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

You twist his words!

We may have an opportunity to put this issue to rest. Kevin Miller is going to be interviewed by Scott Wilkinson on the Home Theater Geeks podcast this coming Monday, specifically to talk about the flatpanel shootout. That's when they record it live.

There will be a live irc chat room set up, so think of your questions, and put them to Scott during the interview.
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post #8868 of 13422
5/22/12 at 8:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I noticed the flicker today in my first viewing of the VT50. It was present in both the THX day & night modes. I think that would wear on me over time. I don't recall seeing it that bad on my Kuro.

Exactly, I also find it very interesting how this topic was largley overlooked in the Shootout. D-Nice was reluctant to put the VT50 into 96Hz mode during the Shootout and for good reason, the flicker became very obvious even over the broadcast.
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post #8869 of 13422
5/22/12 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post


Hasn't been an issue with my 9G KURO since day one. You're exaggerating a little, I think.

I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying IR is guaranteed, I am just saying that it's much more possible with plasma than it is with LCD, and that's why I chose LCD over plasma. I'm not exaggerating by saying that the technology is still susceptibile to IR. An by saying that it's a (real issue) I meant that in reality it's an issue that can happen.
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post #8870 of 13422
5/22/12 at 9:15am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

You call 25 blocks of pure white and pure black real world content? I say it's a scheme by plasma lovers to degrade real world content results by efficient local dimming .

Of course I'm jesting about the scheming aspect, but not about it not being real world. It's a measurement technique but does not really reflect content you find in the movies we watch.

Anybody on location watching the demo videos could see that in practical content the Elite's blacks were visibly darker, whether it be format black bars or movie content.

Yes, yes, I know, I bought one and now I'm trying to justify myself, etc. etc.

You are correct, the ELITE has noticeably better black levels over the VT50. The ELITE has noticeably better contrast ratio over the VT50, the ELITE has noticeably better light output as well as superior pure (bright white) screen uniformity over the VT50. It's interesting how many people pay more attention to test patterns and calibration numbers then they do real life viewing.
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post #8871 of 13422
5/22/12 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

You are correct, the ELITE has noticeably better black levels over the VT50

I thought this was already brought up a few days ago?...Elite measures .0004 only on a total black screen, .002-.003 with content (ANSI)...so are you saying that the .0018 (96hz) of the VT50 is noticably worse?...even for arguments sake if the .0004 stood, would most people be able to see the difference unless they had both side by side?
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post #8872 of 13422
5/22/12 at 9:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

So I brought my bias light from home to work (Magnolia) today and set it up behind the 65VT50 in Studio 2. I brought LOTR and The Matrix for critical viewing. As demonstrated in the first scenes of LOTR: FOTR, as Gandalf and Frodo are riding on the cart, and the sun is reflecting off of Gandalf's hat and the grass and trees in the background, the VT50 does not have the dynamic contrast of the Elite, although in a completely darkened room, I think the VT50 has enough to temporarily blind you in transitions from dark to bright scenes...but not like the Elite...not that I want to be blinded, but still. The blacks and shadow detail are excellent on both, with the Elite again taking the lead. As I stated previously, I'm not happy with the blacks on either in a completely darkened room, so I use a bias light. The best scene I can think of to demonstrate why can be found near the beginning of "A Thin Red Line" where there is a flame in a completely black room. The black background still glows. Back to the comparison, In a bright room the differences are much more pronounced. The Elite can put out so much more light, and can maintain its deep black levels better...though the glossy screen can be distracting in darker scenes letting you see everything behind you in its reflection. The VT50 does better with darker content in a bright room, its filter making the reflections much more subtle, and it has the advantage of far superior viewing angles. The improvements of the VT50 over the VT30 are significant, and I think either could be the better choice, depending on the application. I think the gap has been greatly diminished, but I still give the nod to the Elite, which, at least as far as contrast goes, is still the clear winner...though if I hadn't gotten a stupid discount on my PRO-60 I'd be jumping all over the VT50. As I said before, if Panasonic stays the plasma course, the next couple of years will be very exciting. Thanks for reading.

Dan

P.S. The crazy thing is that somebody somewhere is watching that 9mm thick prototype KURO they showed at CES 2008 or 2009...AND somewhere some Panasonic engineer is watching a plasma with the tech that will be implemented 2 or 3 years from now.

Great observations, I'm going to also add that when you get your ELITE calibrated it really opens up much of the dynamic shadow detail through the ELITE's superior contrast ratio.
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post #8873 of 13422
5/22/12 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by radtech51 View Post


it's interesting how many people pay more attention to test patterns and calibration numbers then they do real life viewing.

+1
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post #8874 of 13422
5/22/12 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Even though the VT50 wasn't in an ideal location at my Magnolia, the difference in dynamic range was obvious. The VT50 just can't achieve the full-screen white levels that the Elite can.

Even though the source material was so different (Avatar vs some nature video) the difference in depth was very significant. There were several instances of full screen snow & white cloud scenes that showed no dimming whatsoever vs smaller areas of white. No plasma can do that.

I couldn't tell much about black levels on the VT50 due to its location, but I suspect Dude's & Rad's description of relative black levels is probably correct. I'm not sure how some arrived at the conclusion that the Elite's black levels came in 3rd. Wow.

You assessment is correct my friend, and there is no way the Elite's black levels came in 3rd. that's just ridiculous! I suspect you can make anything look bad if you single it out and bash it enough.
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post #8875 of 13422
5/22/12 at 9:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

You twist his words!

No Ken doesn't! Kevin was at my place telling me that exact same thing actualy recently. I asked him personally if he ever encountered a situation where the calibration numbers say one thing such as everything is perfect, but the picture you are seeing doesn't show the same? Kevin said "Yes!" Excellent question he even added, stating that in that case you just have to eye-ball it out.
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post #8876 of 13422
5/22/12 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

I used the same settings (also in Best Buy) but had the motion part off and switched local dimming from on to the adv low. No, it does not handle motion like a plasma and coming from a plasma that was apparent immediately and while I agree it is not film-like I did not find it at all to be an issue in the content I tested so long as Film Mode was OFF! Tonight should tell me more but so far I have been fairly evenly divided between the VT50 and Elite with the VT50 getting the nod for motion and the Elite for blacks and contrast.

Those pictures you took were really nice, were they all taken from the VT50?
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post #8877 of 13422
5/22/12 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

We may have an opportunity to put this issue to rest. Kevin Miller is going to be interviewed by Scott Wilkinson on the Home Theater Geeks podcast this coming Monday, specifically to talk about the flatpanel shootout. That's when they record it live.

There will be a live irc chat room set up, so think of your questions, and put them to Scott during the interview.

Don't need to. I've spoken with Kevin many times and for hours during his visits to my house. I know his thoughts. Thanks anyway.
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post #8878 of 13422
5/22/12 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

You assessment is correct my friend, and there is no way the Elite's black levels came in 3rd. that's just ridiculous! I suspect you can make anything look bad if you single it out and bash it enough.

Yup. That's precisely why I put the least stock in the voting for 'best' at the shootout. I love the shootouts, but people tend to do their voting based on what they hear from presenters (mostly sales pitches) and test patterns. Yes, the calibrators have their say too, but each has a very distinct bias too.

Professional reviewers tend to evaluate on picture quality with real material. Weird huh?
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post #8879 of 13422
5/22/12 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

No Ken doesn't! Kevin was at my place telling me that exact same thing actualy recently. I asked him personally if he ever encountered a situation where the calibration numbers say one thing such as everything is perfect, but the picture you are seeing doesn't show the same? Kevin said "Yes!" Excellent question he even added, stating that in that case you just have to eye-ball it out.

Rad, if it doesn't fit their arguments & preconceived notions, we can talk until we're blue in the face. It is what it is.
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post #8880 of 13422
5/22/12 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Rad, if it doesn't fit their arguments & preconceived notions, we can talk until we're blue in the face. It is what it is.

So True!
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