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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 297

post #8881 of 13287
5/22/12 at 9:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

You twist his words!

No Ken doesn't! Kevin was at my place telling me that exact same thing actualy recently. I asked him personally if he ever encountered a situation where the calibration numbers say one thing such as everything is perfect, but the picture you are seeing doesn't show the same? Kevin said "Yes!" Excellent question he even added, stating that in that case you just have to eye-ball it out.
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post #8882 of 13287
5/22/12 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

I used the same settings (also in Best Buy) but had the motion part off and switched local dimming from on to the adv low. No, it does not handle motion like a plasma and coming from a plasma that was apparent immediately and while I agree it is not film-like I did not find it at all to be an issue in the content I tested so long as Film Mode was OFF! Tonight should tell me more but so far I have been fairly evenly divided between the VT50 and Elite with the VT50 getting the nod for motion and the Elite for blacks and contrast.

Those pictures you took were really nice, were they all taken from the VT50?
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post #8883 of 13287
5/22/12 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

We may have an opportunity to put this issue to rest. Kevin Miller is going to be interviewed by Scott Wilkinson on the Home Theater Geeks podcast this coming Monday, specifically to talk about the flatpanel shootout. That's when they record it live.

There will be a live irc chat room set up, so think of your questions, and put them to Scott during the interview.

Don't need to. I've spoken with Kevin many times and for hours during his visits to my house. I know his thoughts. Thanks anyway.
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post #8884 of 13287
5/22/12 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

You assessment is correct my friend, and there is no way the Elite's black levels came in 3rd. that's just ridiculous! I suspect you can make anything look bad if you single it out and bash it enough.

Yup. That's precisely why I put the least stock in the voting for 'best' at the shootout. I love the shootouts, but people tend to do their voting based on what they hear from presenters (mostly sales pitches) and test patterns. Yes, the calibrators have their say too, but each has a very distinct bias too.

Professional reviewers tend to evaluate on picture quality with real material. Weird huh?
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post #8885 of 13287
5/22/12 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

No Ken doesn't! Kevin was at my place telling me that exact same thing actualy recently. I asked him personally if he ever encountered a situation where the calibration numbers say one thing such as everything is perfect, but the picture you are seeing doesn't show the same? Kevin said "Yes!" Excellent question he even added, stating that in that case you just have to eye-ball it out.

Rad, if it doesn't fit their arguments & preconceived notions, we can talk until we're blue in the face. It is what it is.
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post #8886 of 13287
5/22/12 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Rad, if it doesn't fit their arguments & preconceived notions, we can talk until we're blue in the face. It is what it is.

So True!
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post #8887 of 13287
5/22/12 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Famouss View Post


Those pictures you took were really nice, were they all taken from the VT50?

Those weren't taken at the store, those are direct screen caps from the bluray.

I've never had my TV professionally calibrated. I used D-nice settings and was happy with them and then used the Disney WOW disc which said my pic was too dark and the gamma was off. I know these calibrations have a lot to do with ambient light, day mode and night mode, etc. but I've been very happy with it since using the wow disc and I've seen a fair number of folks say they've made adjustments post ISF to get a slightly more bold image.
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post #8888 of 13287
5/22/12 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post


It's interesting how many people pay more attention to test patterns and calibration numbers then they do real life viewing.

I think this is just evidence of just how reliant we have become on technology to tell us the "truth" about things...but there will always be one side that tends toward relying more on the experience to tell them what their eyes see, and the other side which relies more on scientific testing and measurements to tell them what their eyes "really" see. I must admit I've been on both sides, and have found that the experience side allows me to enjoy the display more, where the constant testing and measuring only causes me to focus on the flaws. You can boil that down to a glass half full versus glass half empty philosophy. I heard this once: While trying to get from point A to point B, two people might have two different approaches. The first person would just walk from point A to point B. The other, having a more scientific approach, would never leave point A, because, while analyzing the situation, he would determine that, in order to complete the journey, he would first have to walk 1/2 of the way; but before that he would have to walk 1/4 of the way; before that 1/8 of the way; and before that 1/16, and so on and so forth. Anyway, my mind has a tendency to go in the analytical direction, and it sometimes makes it difficult to enjoy things. I hope the more serious of you got a laugh/chuckle/grin out of this parable, and aren't offended. If you ARE offended, remember, it's just a television...and if we lost power today and could never watch TV again, hopefully we'd realize just how insignificant it was, and how silly we must've been for wasting a good chunk of our time arguing about it in the first place. It's 75 degrees and sunny with a slight breeze in KCMO, so I'm gonna go out and enjoy the day with my family.

Dan
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post #8889 of 13287
5/22/12 at 11:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

I think this is just evidence of just how reliant we have become on technology to tell us the "truth" about things...but there will always be one side that tends toward relying more on the experience to tell them what their eyes see, and the other side which relies more on scientific testing and measurements to tell them what their eyes "really" see. I must admit I've been on both sides, and have found that the experience side allows me to enjoy the display more, where the constant testing and measuring only causes me to focus on the flaws. You can boil that down to a glass half full versus glass half empty philosophy. I heard this once: While trying to get from point A to point B, two people might have two different approaches. The first person would just walk from point A to point B. The other, having a more scientific approach, would never leave point A, because, while analyzing the situation, he would determine that, in order to complete the journey, he would first have to walk 1/2 of the way; but before that he would have to walk 1/4 of the way; before that 1/8 of the way; and before that 1/16, and so on and so forth. Anyway, my mind has a tendency to go in the analytical direction, and it sometimes makes it difficult to enjoy things. I hope the more serious of you got a laugh/chuckle/grin out of this parable, and aren't offended. If you ARE offended, remember, it's just a television...and if we lost power today and could never watch TV again, hopefully we'd realize just how insignificant it was, and how silly we must've been for wasting a good chunk of our time arguing about it in the first place. It's 75 degrees and sunny with a slight breeze in KCMO, so I'm gonna go out and enjoy the day with my family.

Dan

Nice post, I did enjoy your story and felt there was truth in it.
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post #8890 of 13287
5/22/12 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

good rational post...the Elite no doubt would win in a room with any sort of light but hopefully most people that own a high end set (from any manufacturer) would have the means to control lighting, either through a dedicated home theater room or even closing the blinds/turning off lights for critical viewing...but as you stated the reflections would then become an issue on the Elite while the VT has the better filter...so better picture with reflections of dimmer picture with no reflections is the tradeoff

total dark room: the differences would definitely be less pronounced and financial aspects/value come into play in terms of are the differences that much better where you would literally pay more then double the price?...I could literally buy 2 55" VT50's for the price of 1 60" Elite

This is a very good point and was a major factor in my decision to go with the Elite. Our TV sits in the living room with large windows on two sides, and while I can draw the blinds to darken the room for a serious movie showing, sometimes I just want to watch TV and not be sitting in a dark room on a nice day. My wife, who could not care less what kind of TV we have and does not notice these types of things, has commented to me a couple times how much more she enjoys watching her DVR'd shows during the day without sitting in a darkened room.

For a dedicated and darkened room only, I agree, given the price difference, the decision is more difficult.
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post #8891 of 13287
5/22/12 at 12:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post

This is a very good point and was a major factor in my decision to go with the Elite. Our TV sits in the living room with large windows on two sides, and while I can draw the blinds to darken the room for a serious movie showing, sometimes I just want to watch TV and not be sitting in a dark room on a nice day. My wife, who could not care less what kind of TV we have and does not notice these types of things, has commented to me a couple times how much more she enjoys watching her DVR'd shows during the day without sitting in a darkened room.

For a dedicated and darkened room only, I agree, given the price difference, the decision is more difficult.

Even in a darkened room I would not want to give up that beautiful radiant brightness only the Elite can put out, for say a scene with a sunset in it. You should feel like you're actually seeing a sunset. The Elite didn't get the nickname retina burning for no reason.
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post #8892 of 13287
5/22/12 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Yup. That's precisely why I put the least stock in the voting for 'best' at the shootout. I love the shootouts, but people tend to do their voting based on what they hear from presenters (mostly sales pitches) and test patterns. Yes, the calibrators have their say too, but each has a very distinct bias too.

Professional reviewers tend to evaluate on picture quality with real material. Weird huh?

Ken you know this statement isn't fair. You know damn well real-world content is shown as part of the voting process & is encouraged that participants use it in their voting process

The Calibrators use numbers & terminology to educate the public in attendance. They don't do it as a sales pitch or to sway the voters.

WOW
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post #8893 of 13287
5/22/12 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It was really amazing to see the VT30 and how dim it appeared. Although the VT50 was brighter, it still wasn't close to the Elite in the ability to produce the depth I've grown accustomed to. Bring on the larger Elites!

Amen Brothah!

I'd certainly go for a 80" elite and am hoping they have one out for me in September which is when I am planning on pulling the trigger on new sets.

Panasonic was a treat when I bought my VT30 last year and GT30. However, IR has continued to get worse, the sets generate so much heat my A/C is running more, and the Whites (a limitation of Plasma) are just really becoming more and more of a sore subject.

The next big thing in TVs needs to run cool (like an LCD), have bright whites and light output, not have IR like Plasmas, and at least equal color reproduction and motion handling. Whether OLED will be this new tech I'm still very weary about.

Apple has shown how pixel densities can really transform a display. However, their quality of screens has also shown how crappy an LCD can be too. Tech, it's such a double edge sword. =D
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post #8894 of 13287
5/22/12 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Ken you know this statement isn't fair. You know damn well real-world content is shown as part of the voting process & is encouraged that participants use it in their voting process

The Calibrators use numbers & terminology to educate the public in attendance. They don't do it as a sales pitch or to sway the voters.

WOW

I should have stated (as I did on HTS) that over 90% of the time is spent on charts, graphs and explanations. Less that 10% of the time is spent viewing actual material.

I should have been as precise as I was over at HDJ.

If you read my post I did not say the calibrators were making sales pitches, but surely the reps from the display manufacturers were.
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post #8895 of 13287
5/22/12 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


I should have stated (as I did on HTS) that over 90% of the time is spent on charts, graphs and explanations. Less that 10% of the time is spent viewing actual material.

I should have been as precise as I was over at HDJ.

If you read my post I did not say the calibrators were making sales pitches, but surely the reps from the display manufacturers were.

Thanks for clarifying Ken. The 90/10 is an issue. From speaking to Robert & getting a sense of why he puts the event together it's really evolved from an event to educate the public on Standards to a sales pitch from manufacturers.

It's a hard balance to achieve. This is where us as attendees can maybe make an influence on future shootouts.
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post #8896 of 13287
5/22/12 at 3:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post

Amen Brothah!

I'd certainly go for a 80" elite and am hoping they have one out for me in September which is when I am planning on pulling the trigger on new sets.

Panasonic was a treat when I bought my VT30 last year and GT30. However, IR has continued to get worse, the sets generate so much heat my A/C is running more, and the Whites (a limitation of Plasma) are just really becoming more and more of a sore subject.

The next big thing in TVs needs to run cool (like an LCD), have bright whites and light output, not have IR like Plasmas, and at least equal color reproduction and motion handling. Whether OLED will be this new tech I'm still very weary about.

Apple has shown how pixel densities can really transform a display. However, their quality of screens has also shown how crappy an LCD can be too. Tech, it's such a double edge sword. =D

OLED will be the new thing that's guaranteed, it's superior to other display technologies in every way but in two categories, longevity and cost. At the moment they only last about 10,000 - 14,000 hours, (A-little over 1-Year) due primarly to the blue organic carbon diode. I know (Ouch) but that will improve over time just like Plasma did. Next is of course the cost, at 55'' LG is expected to be around 8k.

OLED will be tempting me when they can fix those two issues and get the sizes up to 70'' plus inches, preferably 80''. Also it has to be a 4k panel because that's obviously going to be the new thing as well. So my next display will probably be a 80'' 4k ELITE.
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post #8897 of 13287
5/22/12 at 3:58pm
hopefully they will be making the 2nd Generation Elite's in 'smaller' sizes as well and not just 70"+...I'm interested in a 55"-65"
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post #8898 of 13287
5/22/12 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Thanks for clarifying Ken. The 90/10 is an issue. From speaking to Robert & getting a sense of why he puts the event together it's really evolved from an event to educate the public on Standards to a sales pitch from manufacturers.

It's a hard balance to achieve. This is where us as attendees can maybe make an influence on future shootouts.

I think it's a bit of a waste to hear the sales guys. The Sharp guy from what I heard read from the same script as last year. I'm sure they all have their prepared scripts.

I'd love to see far more time spent on actual real-world material. Next time I speak to Robert I'll mention that.
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post #8899 of 13287
5/22/12 at 4:27pm
I'd like to see static shots - people, baseball fields etc. everyday viewing where we know what looks right and easy to spot the display we like best.
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post #8900 of 13287
5/22/12 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

OLED will be the new thing that's guaranteed, it's superior to other display technologies in every way but in two categories, longevity and cost. At the moment they only last about 10,000 - 14,000 hours, (A-little over 1-Year) due primarly to the blue organic carbon diode. I know (Ouch) but that will improve over time just like Plasma did. Next is of course the cost, at 55'' LG is expected to be around 8k.

OLED will be tempting me when they can fix those two issues and get the sizes up to 70'' plus inches, preferably 80''. Also it has to be a 4k panel because that's obviously going to be the new thing as well. So my next display will probably be a 80'' 4k ELITE.

I'm with you no that Rad. I haven't been following as closely as I should, but I know those blue diodes were the issue during development. From what you're saying they still are.

I sure wouldn't want to invest in a tech that's got that limited life span. If their quoting 10,000-14,000 hours, I wonder at what point you begin to see a degradation? It might be well before that point, I don't know.
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post #8901 of 13287
5/22/12 at 5:15pm
Thread Starter 
From what I'm reading Samsung has a workaround I don't know about LG I'm sure they have an equivalent. They better have something if they plan to release one this year I doubt anybody's going buy one if it only has avout a half life of a year and a half or less.
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post #8902 of 13287
5/22/12 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

From what I'm reading Samsung has a workaround I don't know about LG I'm sure they have an equivalent. They better have something if they plan to release one this year I doubt anybody's going buy one if it only has avout a half life of a year and a half or less.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 10,000-14,000 hours is the equvalent of 6-8 years, if you watched the display for 5 hours a day. I agree, that's still far too short for the asking price...I'm just sayin'.

Dan
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post #8903 of 13287
5/22/12 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

I think you have to go into the control panel for your video card & detect the Display . & then set-up the properties .. I'm a ATI guy so ,i'm not sure on the Nvdia stuff . might just take a reboot while the display is on & connected to the display

Finally!! I was able to get it working. In case someone else is has a similar issue. I got it to work with a DVI-D to HDMI cable. I'm getting sound from the TV as well.
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post #8904 of 13287
5/22/12 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


I think it's a bit of a waste to hear the sales guys. The Sharp guy from what I heard read from the same script as last year. I'm sure they all have their prepared scripts.

I'd love to see far more time spent on actual real-world material. Next time I speak to Robert I'll mention that.

I'll also do the same.
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post #8905 of 13287
5/22/12 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 10,000-14,000 hours is the equvalent of 6-8 years, if you watched the display for 5 hours a day. I agree, that's still far too short for the asking price...I'm just sayin'.

Dan

I use mostly my projector and I barely touch 1000 hours a year. If the TV can last 10 years... that's good enough for me!
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post #8906 of 13287
5/22/12 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 10,000-14,000 hours is the equvalent of 6-8 years, if you watched the display for 5 hours a day. I agree, that's still far too short for the asking price...I'm just sayin'.

Dan

That's true Dan. But it does pale by comparison with the typical life of an LED or plasma (60,000 hours or thereabouts). Of course the way I go through displays, even the current OLED life is more than enough!
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post #8907 of 13287
5/22/12 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I use mostly my projector and I barely touch 1000 hours a year. If the TV can last 10 years... that's good enough for me!

David, you need to watch a lot more TV! You're just not suffering from enough of brain rot like most of us.
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post #8908 of 13287
5/22/12 at 7:38pm
hahaha! So true. I hardly watch TV, just movies on Blu-ray. I only use my TV to check the weather forecast and that's it.
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post #8909 of 13287
5/22/12 at 11:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

You assessment is correct my friend, and there is no way the Elite's black levels came in 3rd. that's just ridiculous! I suspect you can make anything look bad if you single it out and bash it enough.

Why not? Elite is not switching off pixels completely meaning there must be always some residual backlight leaking.
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post #8910 of 13287
5/23/12 at 3:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post


Why not? Elite is not switching off pixels completely meaning there must be always some residual backlight leaking.

Neither does the Panasonic
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