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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 297

post #8881 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Famouss View Post


Those pictures you took were really nice, were they all taken from the VT50?

Those weren't taken at the store, those are direct screen caps from the bluray.

I've never had my TV professionally calibrated. I used D-nice settings and was happy with them and then used the Disney WOW disc which said my pic was too dark and the gamma was off. I know these calibrations have a lot to do with ambient light, day mode and night mode, etc. but I've been very happy with it since using the wow disc and I've seen a fair number of folks say they've made adjustments post ISF to get a slightly more bold image.
post #8882 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post


It's interesting how many people pay more attention to test patterns and calibration numbers then they do real life viewing.

I think this is just evidence of just how reliant we have become on technology to tell us the "truth" about things...but there will always be one side that tends toward relying more on the experience to tell them what their eyes see, and the other side which relies more on scientific testing and measurements to tell them what their eyes "really" see. I must admit I've been on both sides, and have found that the experience side allows me to enjoy the display more, where the constant testing and measuring only causes me to focus on the flaws. You can boil that down to a glass half full versus glass half empty philosophy. I heard this once: While trying to get from point A to point B, two people might have two different approaches. The first person would just walk from point A to point B. The other, having a more scientific approach, would never leave point A, because, while analyzing the situation, he would determine that, in order to complete the journey, he would first have to walk 1/2 of the way; but before that he would have to walk 1/4 of the way; before that 1/8 of the way; and before that 1/16, and so on and so forth. Anyway, my mind has a tendency to go in the analytical direction, and it sometimes makes it difficult to enjoy things. I hope the more serious of you got a laugh/chuckle/grin out of this parable, and aren't offended. If you ARE offended, remember, it's just a television...and if we lost power today and could never watch TV again, hopefully we'd realize just how insignificant it was, and how silly we must've been for wasting a good chunk of our time arguing about it in the first place. It's 75 degrees and sunny with a slight breeze in KCMO, so I'm gonna go out and enjoy the day with my family.

Dan
post #8883 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

I think this is just evidence of just how reliant we have become on technology to tell us the "truth" about things...but there will always be one side that tends toward relying more on the experience to tell them what their eyes see, and the other side which relies more on scientific testing and measurements to tell them what their eyes "really" see. I must admit I've been on both sides, and have found that the experience side allows me to enjoy the display more, where the constant testing and measuring only causes me to focus on the flaws. You can boil that down to a glass half full versus glass half empty philosophy. I heard this once: While trying to get from point A to point B, two people might have two different approaches. The first person would just walk from point A to point B. The other, having a more scientific approach, would never leave point A, because, while analyzing the situation, he would determine that, in order to complete the journey, he would first have to walk 1/2 of the way; but before that he would have to walk 1/4 of the way; before that 1/8 of the way; and before that 1/16, and so on and so forth. Anyway, my mind has a tendency to go in the analytical direction, and it sometimes makes it difficult to enjoy things. I hope the more serious of you got a laugh/chuckle/grin out of this parable, and aren't offended. If you ARE offended, remember, it's just a television...and if we lost power today and could never watch TV again, hopefully we'd realize just how insignificant it was, and how silly we must've been for wasting a good chunk of our time arguing about it in the first place. It's 75 degrees and sunny with a slight breeze in KCMO, so I'm gonna go out and enjoy the day with my family.

Dan

Nice post, I did enjoy your story and felt there was truth in it.
post #8884 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

good rational post...the Elite no doubt would win in a room with any sort of light but hopefully most people that own a high end set (from any manufacturer) would have the means to control lighting, either through a dedicated home theater room or even closing the blinds/turning off lights for critical viewing...but as you stated the reflections would then become an issue on the Elite while the VT has the better filter...so better picture with reflections of dimmer picture with no reflections is the tradeoff

total dark room: the differences would definitely be less pronounced and financial aspects/value come into play in terms of are the differences that much better where you would literally pay more then double the price?...I could literally buy 2 55" VT50's for the price of 1 60" Elite

This is a very good point and was a major factor in my decision to go with the Elite. Our TV sits in the living room with large windows on two sides, and while I can draw the blinds to darken the room for a serious movie showing, sometimes I just want to watch TV and not be sitting in a dark room on a nice day. My wife, who could not care less what kind of TV we have and does not notice these types of things, has commented to me a couple times how much more she enjoys watching her DVR'd shows during the day without sitting in a darkened room.

For a dedicated and darkened room only, I agree, given the price difference, the decision is more difficult.
post #8885 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post

This is a very good point and was a major factor in my decision to go with the Elite. Our TV sits in the living room with large windows on two sides, and while I can draw the blinds to darken the room for a serious movie showing, sometimes I just want to watch TV and not be sitting in a dark room on a nice day. My wife, who could not care less what kind of TV we have and does not notice these types of things, has commented to me a couple times how much more she enjoys watching her DVR'd shows during the day without sitting in a darkened room.

For a dedicated and darkened room only, I agree, given the price difference, the decision is more difficult.

Even in a darkened room I would not want to give up that beautiful radiant brightness only the Elite can put out, for say a scene with a sunset in it. You should feel like you're actually seeing a sunset. The Elite didn't get the nickname retina burning for no reason.
post #8886 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Yup. That's precisely why I put the least stock in the voting for 'best' at the shootout. I love the shootouts, but people tend to do their voting based on what they hear from presenters (mostly sales pitches) and test patterns. Yes, the calibrators have their say too, but each has a very distinct bias too.

Professional reviewers tend to evaluate on picture quality with real material. Weird huh?

Ken you know this statement isn't fair. You know damn well real-world content is shown as part of the voting process & is encouraged that participants use it in their voting process

The Calibrators use numbers & terminology to educate the public in attendance. They don't do it as a sales pitch or to sway the voters.

WOW
post #8887 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It was really amazing to see the VT30 and how dim it appeared. Although the VT50 was brighter, it still wasn't close to the Elite in the ability to produce the depth I've grown accustomed to. Bring on the larger Elites!

Amen Brothah!

I'd certainly go for a 80" elite and am hoping they have one out for me in September which is when I am planning on pulling the trigger on new sets.

Panasonic was a treat when I bought my VT30 last year and GT30. However, IR has continued to get worse, the sets generate so much heat my A/C is running more, and the Whites (a limitation of Plasma) are just really becoming more and more of a sore subject.

The next big thing in TVs needs to run cool (like an LCD), have bright whites and light output, not have IR like Plasmas, and at least equal color reproduction and motion handling. Whether OLED will be this new tech I'm still very weary about.

Apple has shown how pixel densities can really transform a display. However, their quality of screens has also shown how crappy an LCD can be too. Tech, it's such a double edge sword. =D
post #8888 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Ken you know this statement isn't fair. You know damn well real-world content is shown as part of the voting process & is encouraged that participants use it in their voting process

The Calibrators use numbers & terminology to educate the public in attendance. They don't do it as a sales pitch or to sway the voters.

WOW

I should have stated (as I did on HTS) that over 90% of the time is spent on charts, graphs and explanations. Less that 10% of the time is spent viewing actual material.

I should have been as precise as I was over at HDJ.

If you read my post I did not say the calibrators were making sales pitches, but surely the reps from the display manufacturers were.
post #8889 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


I should have stated (as I did on HTS) that over 90% of the time is spent on charts, graphs and explanations. Less that 10% of the time is spent viewing actual material.

I should have been as precise as I was over at HDJ.

If you read my post I did not say the calibrators were making sales pitches, but surely the reps from the display manufacturers were.

Thanks for clarifying Ken. The 90/10 is an issue. From speaking to Robert & getting a sense of why he puts the event together it's really evolved from an event to educate the public on Standards to a sales pitch from manufacturers.

It's a hard balance to achieve. This is where us as attendees can maybe make an influence on future shootouts.
post #8890 of 14509
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post

Amen Brothah!

I'd certainly go for a 80" elite and am hoping they have one out for me in September which is when I am planning on pulling the trigger on new sets.

Panasonic was a treat when I bought my VT30 last year and GT30. However, IR has continued to get worse, the sets generate so much heat my A/C is running more, and the Whites (a limitation of Plasma) are just really becoming more and more of a sore subject.

The next big thing in TVs needs to run cool (like an LCD), have bright whites and light output, not have IR like Plasmas, and at least equal color reproduction and motion handling. Whether OLED will be this new tech I'm still very weary about.

Apple has shown how pixel densities can really transform a display. However, their quality of screens has also shown how crappy an LCD can be too. Tech, it's such a double edge sword. =D

OLED will be the new thing that's guaranteed, it's superior to other display technologies in every way but in two categories, longevity and cost. At the moment they only last about 10,000 - 14,000 hours, (A-little over 1-Year) due primarly to the blue organic carbon diode. I know (Ouch) but that will improve over time just like Plasma did. Next is of course the cost, at 55'' LG is expected to be around 8k.

OLED will be tempting me when they can fix those two issues and get the sizes up to 70'' plus inches, preferably 80''. Also it has to be a 4k panel because that's obviously going to be the new thing as well. So my next display will probably be a 80'' 4k ELITE.
post #8891 of 14509
hopefully they will be making the 2nd Generation Elite's in 'smaller' sizes as well and not just 70"+...I'm interested in a 55"-65"
post #8892 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Thanks for clarifying Ken. The 90/10 is an issue. From speaking to Robert & getting a sense of why he puts the event together it's really evolved from an event to educate the public on Standards to a sales pitch from manufacturers.

It's a hard balance to achieve. This is where us as attendees can maybe make an influence on future shootouts.

I think it's a bit of a waste to hear the sales guys. The Sharp guy from what I heard read from the same script as last year. I'm sure they all have their prepared scripts.

I'd love to see far more time spent on actual real-world material. Next time I speak to Robert I'll mention that.
post #8893 of 14509
I'd like to see static shots - people, baseball fields etc. everyday viewing where we know what looks right and easy to spot the display we like best.
post #8894 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

OLED will be the new thing that's guaranteed, it's superior to other display technologies in every way but in two categories, longevity and cost. At the moment they only last about 10,000 - 14,000 hours, (A-little over 1-Year) due primarly to the blue organic carbon diode. I know (Ouch) but that will improve over time just like Plasma did. Next is of course the cost, at 55'' LG is expected to be around 8k.

OLED will be tempting me when they can fix those two issues and get the sizes up to 70'' plus inches, preferably 80''. Also it has to be a 4k panel because that's obviously going to be the new thing as well. So my next display will probably be a 80'' 4k ELITE.

I'm with you no that Rad. I haven't been following as closely as I should, but I know those blue diodes were the issue during development. From what you're saying they still are.

I sure wouldn't want to invest in a tech that's got that limited life span. If their quoting 10,000-14,000 hours, I wonder at what point you begin to see a degradation? It might be well before that point, I don't know.
post #8895 of 14509
Thread Starter 
From what I'm reading Samsung has a workaround I don't know about LG I'm sure they have an equivalent. They better have something if they plan to release one this year I doubt anybody's going buy one if it only has avout a half life of a year and a half or less.
post #8896 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

From what I'm reading Samsung has a workaround I don't know about LG I'm sure they have an equivalent. They better have something if they plan to release one this year I doubt anybody's going buy one if it only has avout a half life of a year and a half or less.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 10,000-14,000 hours is the equvalent of 6-8 years, if you watched the display for 5 hours a day. I agree, that's still far too short for the asking price...I'm just sayin'.

Dan
post #8897 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

I think you have to go into the control panel for your video card & detect the Display . & then set-up the properties .. I'm a ATI guy so ,i'm not sure on the Nvdia stuff . might just take a reboot while the display is on & connected to the display

Finally!! I was able to get it working. In case someone else is has a similar issue. I got it to work with a DVI-D to HDMI cable. I'm getting sound from the TV as well.
post #8898 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


I think it's a bit of a waste to hear the sales guys. The Sharp guy from what I heard read from the same script as last year. I'm sure they all have their prepared scripts.

I'd love to see far more time spent on actual real-world material. Next time I speak to Robert I'll mention that.

I'll also do the same.
post #8899 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 10,000-14,000 hours is the equvalent of 6-8 years, if you watched the display for 5 hours a day. I agree, that's still far too short for the asking price...I'm just sayin'.

Dan

I use mostly my projector and I barely touch 1000 hours a year. If the TV can last 10 years... that's good enough for me!
post #8900 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 10,000-14,000 hours is the equvalent of 6-8 years, if you watched the display for 5 hours a day. I agree, that's still far too short for the asking price...I'm just sayin'.

Dan

That's true Dan. But it does pale by comparison with the typical life of an LED or plasma (60,000 hours or thereabouts). Of course the way I go through displays, even the current OLED life is more than enough!
post #8901 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I use mostly my projector and I barely touch 1000 hours a year. If the TV can last 10 years... that's good enough for me!

David, you need to watch a lot more TV! You're just not suffering from enough of brain rot like most of us.
post #8902 of 14509
hahaha! So true. I hardly watch TV, just movies on Blu-ray. I only use my TV to check the weather forecast and that's it.
post #8903 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

You assessment is correct my friend, and there is no way the Elite's black levels came in 3rd. that's just ridiculous! I suspect you can make anything look bad if you single it out and bash it enough.

Why not? Elite is not switching off pixels completely meaning there must be always some residual backlight leaking.
post #8904 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post


Why not? Elite is not switching off pixels completely meaning there must be always some residual backlight leaking.

Neither does the Panasonic
post #8905 of 14509
final results from the 2012 Shootout are in (audience votes):

1)VT50
2)Sharp Elite
3)Samsung E8000

winners in each category:

black level: Sharp Elite
contrast ratio: Sharp Elite
color accuracy: VT50
moving resolution (sharpness): Samsung E8000
general content- video quality: VT50

looks about right to me...color accuracy is the Elite's biggest detriment...not subjective "I like the way the colors look and it doesn't bother me" eye rolling comments but objective numbers based on industry specifications and real world content
post #8906 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post


looks about right to me...color accuracy is the Elite's biggest detriment...not subjective "I like the way the colors look and it doesn't bother me" eye rolling comments but objective numbers based on industry specifications and real world content

As has been discussed endlessly, more important than the blanket 'color accuracy' statement, is where the colors errors are, how often they're seen and are they common in everyday viewing.

Color errors can be infinite in where they occur and at what luminance levels. Fortunately the Elite's issue is in a color not often seen except for stylized movies where the color is already 'whacked'. Otherwise most people (owners with huge amounts of viewing time) simply don't see it. It appears to bother non-owners more than anyone. Interesting.

But this will go on and some will never let it go. Such is life.
post #8907 of 14509
I'm one of them who will never let go. However, on the flip side of the coin... there is no such thing as the perfect display... especially not at this (relatively) low price. So although I'm not letting go the problem (and will still beating Sharp for not fixing it), in my heart I actually say "meh... not that I paid THAT much for the TV unlike paying for (say) a B&O or Runco TV... that are both also not perfect."
post #8908 of 14509
What if the problem isn't fixable by a FW update, which appears to be the case? That's the biggest cons of having much functionality in the hardware itself.

Question does the 55HX929 make sense when you can get an Elite for $700 more?

I've got one (Elite) coming on Friday and am wondering about options (perhaps shouldn't). THe LM9600 doesn't seem to be in the same league. Sad that the best (full array) LEDs of 2012 are 2011 models. BTW, I believe my living room is just too bright for a plasma (even with blinds closed).
post #8909 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

Just got off the phone with Elite support, they informed me that all the Elite model tv's have a software conflict with the Netflix app preventing us from using it. They are currently working on a fix with Netflix for this, and will notify us when this problem is solved.

Gene, any word from Elite support on when the Netflix app fix will be released? Thanks.
post #8910 of 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I'm one of them who will never let go. However, on the flip side of the coin... there is no such thing as the perfect display... especially not at this (relatively) low price. So although I'm not letting go the problem (and will still beating Sharp for not fixing it), in my heart I actually say "meh... not that I paid THAT much for the TV unlike paying for (say) a B&O or Runco TV... that are both also not perfect."

agreed...the comments from certain posters to 'let it go' all the time are silly...it's a real issue that a lot of people find pretty darn important...it's freakin color accuracy, one of the top 2 criteria in evaluating any display (for most people)...it baffles me that some people want this issue to be swept under the rug...if anything current owners should want this to be fixed even moreso then non-owners, if not for this model then in future models...by downplaying it you're telling manufacturer's that it's OK to release displays with these kind of errors (even for secondary colors)
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