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Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 311

post #9301 of 13287
6/7/12 at 6:02pm
Is it the consensus that this set in both 60 and 70 is at least as good as the discontinued Samsung 55 inch 8500 that got a cult status a couple of years ago?
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post #9302 of 13287
6/7/12 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

Is it the consensus that this set in both 60 and 70 is at least as good as the discontinued Samsung 55 inch 8500 that got a cult status a couple of years ago?

I would hope so. The Samsung had horrible blooming.
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post #9303 of 13287
6/7/12 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

I thought that looked familiar;) And for the record it was largely corrected (to my eyes) using Rad's settings and would probably be even better in ISF mode.

As an unbiased non-owner I'm proud to represent the minority in this thread but I too find it odd how many members make there way to this thread with no objective other than to cheerlead the faults of the Elite... I'm not seeing this in other threads either so it is a bit odd.


Yup. Greens look absolutely fine on my ISF'd Elite. For some reason some people think that every broadcast must have very saturated, consistent greens. That's simply not the case. Anyone that's ever shot video knows how important light and camera angles are in the rendition of green or any color for that matter. Watching any golf telecast (or baseball game) on any display will exhibit a variety of shades of green as well as intensity depending on camera angle, light and the color balance of the different cameras used in the telecast.

General, I really appreciate and respect how you're pursuing your purchase decision. Your approach has been logical and well thought out. Whichever display you wind up with, I'm sure you'll be very happy. I'm sure it hasn't been easy ignoring the rock throwers and their nay-saying. Ultimately your eyes and your tastes will bring you to the correct decision for you.

Good luck!
Edited by Ken Ross - 6/7/12 at 7:51pm
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post #9304 of 13287
6/7/12 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTguru3 View Post

You know, they do have an ignore button for those posters you don't like to read. It seems that would make life much more simple for some of you and then you wouldn't feel the need to constantly defend your set or complain about them. smile.gif

An ignore button for which rock thrower? There are so many I'd need an arsenal of those 'ignore buttons'. rolleyes.gif

I think perhaps some guys should start a thread "Why I so hate the Elite displays, have no intention of buying one, but it sure is fun throwing rocks at owners". Probably too long a thread title...OK, how about just "Why I hate Elites"? Some would have a great time over there. It would make them happy and it would make this thread far more productive if those guys would migrate from here to there. biggrin.gif
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post #9305 of 13287
6/7/12 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Famouss View Post

I am torn between the Elite and the vt50. I love the Elite's black level, but I also like the vt50's color accuracy and motion. I am iffy about the Elites color accuracy and off angle viewing. I do value contrast ratio above all else though by a huge amount. Any advice guys?

Yup. Do a serious evaluation of both displays like the General has and see which picture will satisfy you the most over the long period. If you really value contrast ratio over anything else, then the Elite may be your best choice. If it's color accuracy, then the VT it is.

I think you need to see how obvious you find the color error to be. As most owners can attest, the color accuracy doesn't bother them since colors generally 'look right'. The analogy I've often made is that if the color errors were occurring in obvious areas (blue bananas, yellow oranges etc.), then that would have bothered everyone. We have many many 'reference' objects we see all our lives. Those reference objects look fine on the Elite and it's the reason the colors look great to most owners. When the errors are occurring in areas not so obvious, then it's not quite the big deal (IMO) that some think it is. I strongly feel this is why these errors eluded virtually every reviewer for a long time and why the Elite was often praised not only for it's great overall PQ, but FOR it's color!!!! People forget that.

To me, it's almost a case of 'revisionist history'. How is it that the same display that was so very highly regarded by virtually all reviewers and labeled by some as 'best ever display', has become so color inaccurate, so 'non-reference'. To me the answer is very simple. Yes, the color errors are there and always have been there, BUT, those errors are simply hard to see and thus were easily missed by the professional reviewers as well as some calibrators. If the errors were so obvious, they would have been picked up right from the get go.
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post #9306 of 13287
6/7/12 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTguru3 View Post

Well I've already been questioned by another owner as to "why are you here" and then told to seek a cheaper set if I feel the Kuro has at least an equal quality picture to the Sharp Elite. Some of you owners tend to make this thread not a very welcome place to seek and share information. smile.gif

Well you see, that's precisely the point! This has become a thread where the intent is NOT to 'seek and share information', but rather to 'seek and destroy'. There is a difference. There is a total lack of honesty in genuine 'information gathering' by some, but rather a need to denigrate the Elite at every turn.

The General is a rarity in that he DOES 'seek and share information'. He honestly IS looking at purchasing a display (either the Elite or the Panny) and his sincerity couldn't be more obvious. In fact, his honestly so contrasts the total lack of honesty of the rock throwers, that it's not even funny. I honestly think you'd have to be blind to not see the difference.

Again, why someone with absolutely no intention of buying this display would come here and throw rocks, is totally beyond me. I feel badly for whatever character flaw makes some feel compelled to do that. Make no mistake about it, that IS a character flaw. These people simply can't 'live and let live'. You don't like the display? Fine, but leave owners to enjoy their choice in peace. We are well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the display. Every display has a blend of good and bad.
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post #9307 of 13287
6/7/12 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Well you see, that's precisely the point! This has become a thread where the intent is NOT to 'seek and share information', but rather to 'seek and destroy'. There is a difference. There is a total lack of honestly in genuine 'information gathering' by some, but rather a need to denigrate the Elite at every turn.
The General is a rarity in that he DOES 'seek and share information'. He honestly IS looking at purchasing a display (either the Elite or the Panny) and his sincerity couldn't be more obvious. In fact, his honestly so contrasts the total lack of honesty of the rock throwers, that it's not even funny. I honestly think you'd have to be blind to not see the difference.
Again, why someone with absolutely no intention of buying this display would come here and throw rocks, is totally beyond me. I feel badly for whatever character flaw makes some feel compelled to do that. Make no mistake about it, that IS a character flaw. These people simply can't 'live and let live'. You don't like the display? Fine, but leave owners to enjoy their choice in peace. We are well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the display. Every display has a blend of good and bad.

For the most part AVS members are intelligent enough posters to self filter out stuff that's bogus and stuff that's legit as it's pretty obvious for the most part what a posters intentions are , but whenever someone mentions one slight issue all of a sudden a few of you come tossing out all sorts of excuses or attacks. A perfect example is highlighted above as I would like for you to find a post where I said I didn't like the Sharp Elite as I have often times addressed it as one of the best I have seen, but that doesn;t stop you from throwing out accusations. Makes me wonder again about the intent of the post I addressed yesterday when you make comments like that. I have visited many other owners threads and participated in some but this is one of the few that I feel like a person trespassing. Wonder why?
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post #9308 of 13287
6/7/12 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Famouss View Post

I am torn between the Elite and the vt50. I love the Elite's black level, but I also like the vt50's color accuracy and motion. I am iffy about the Elites color accuracy and off angle viewing. I do value contrast ratio above all else though by a huge amount. Any advice guys?
Take a look at the past 10 pages or so as I have been laboring over the same decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yup. Greens look absolutely fine on my ISF'd Elite. For some reason some people think that every broadcast must have very saturated, consistent greens. That's simply not the case. Anyone that's ever shot video knows how important light and camera angles are in the rendition of green or any color for that matter. Watching any golf telecast (or baseball game) on any display will exhibit a variety of shades of green as well as intensity depending on camera angle, light and the color balance of the different cameras used in the telecast.
General, I really appreciate and respect how you're pursuing your purchase decision. Your approach has been logical and well thought out. Whichever display you wind up with, I'm sure you'll be very happy. I'm sure it hasn't been easy ignoring the rock throwers and their nay-saying. Ultimately your eyes and your tastes will bring you to the correct decision for you.
Good luck!
Thanks Ken, the owners here have been very helpful in providing feedback to correct issues that would have otherwise sent me running from the Elite. With Rad's settings it was clear to me that very pleasing colors can be achieved with the Elite... perhaps they are just as inaccurate as my Panny plasma but there you have it. I've seen a lot of variations in the shades of green on Life and other bluray material I've tested. Being so accustomed to a plasma motion for the past 3+ years that has been the most difficult part. I'm leaning more towards the VT50 at this point but until I get my bonus next month it's anyone's ball game. My wife wants to come look at both and when I mentioned that I was probably going to go 65VT50 she said "awe, I was kinda excited about getting a 70"eek.giftongue.gif I think I've reached the extent of any value I can take away from in-store demo and I will have to commit to a decision and see how I feel after a couple weeks of having whatever panel I chose on my wall. In any case the owners here have been very helpful in my decision process so thanks all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTguru3 View Post

For the most part AVS members are intelligent enough posters to self filter out stuff that's bogus and stuff that's legit as it's pretty obvious for the most part what a posters intentions are , but whenever someone mentions one slight issue all of a sudden a few of you come tossing out all sorts of excuses or attacks. A perfect example is highlighted above as I would like for you to find a post where I said I didn't like the Sharp Elite as I have often times addressed it as one of the best I have seen, but that doesn;t stop you from throwing out accusations. Makes me wonder again about the intent of the post I addressed yesterday when you make comments like that. I have visited many other owners threads and participated in some but this is one of the few that I feel like a person trespassing. Wonder why?
What's that Lincoln quote... something like "if you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it you surely will"? I think the gripe is that there seems to be a stark difference between the folks with honest questions and concerns that are considering spending big $$$ for the Elite vs those that come of as trying to convince owners they wasted their money, their display is flawed given the cost, etc. I'm sure I could dig up similar posts in the Kuro Elite threads about IR, whites, well lit room performance, cost, etc. but in the end it is only you or me or whoever spends the dough and has to sit in front of the panel they purchased that has to be in a state of bliss.
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post #9309 of 13287
6/8/12 at 3:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTguru3 View Post

For the most part AVS members are intelligent enough posters to self filter out stuff that's bogus and stuff that's legit as it's pretty obvious for the most part what a posters intentions are , but whenever someone mentions one slight issue all of a sudden a few of you come tossing out all sorts of excuses or attacks. A perfect example is highlighted above as I would like for you to find a post where I said I didn't like the Sharp Elite as I have often times addressed it as one of the best I have seen, but that doesn;t stop you from throwing out accusations. Makes me wonder again about the intent of the post I addressed yesterday when you make comments like that. I have visited many other owners threads and participated in some but this is one of the few that I feel like a person trespassing. Wonder why?

It's not a question of having the intelligence to discern fact from fiction, it's a question of this thread being turned over to stone throwers. The S/N ratio drops to near zero when that happens and at times it has. I think you misinterpret the reaction of owners that are reacting to these stone throwers.

Has anyone reacted to the General in his criticisms of the display the way many react to the stone throwers? No. Why? Because as opposed to so many in this thread, he is sincere and that sincerity is easy to see just as the ill-intentions of many are easy to see.

Most importantly, please also notice that I and many of the same owners that you seem to think make you feel like a 'trespasser', are on the very same forums that you don't feel that way. Wonder why? Could it be that we don't have the stone throwers that take over those threads like we do here? You betcha! Over there, for the most part, there is an honest discussion of pros and cons. You see much less of those that have zero interest in the display and are there only to try to make owners feel badly about their purchase.
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post #9310 of 13287
6/8/12 at 3:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post


What's that Lincoln quote... something like "if you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it you surely will"? I think the gripe is that there seems to be a stark difference between the folks with honest questions and concerns that are considering spending big $$$ for the Elite vs those that come of as trying to convince owners they wasted their money, their display is flawed given the cost, etc. I'm sure I could dig up similar posts in the Kuro Elite threads about IR, whites, well lit room performance, cost, etc. but in the end it is only you or me or whoever spends the dough and has to sit in front of the panel they purchased that has to be in a state of bliss.

General, I sent you a PM. smile.gif
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post #9311 of 13287
6/8/12 at 4:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Take a look at the past 10 pages or so as I have been laboring over the same decision.
Thanks Ken, the owners here have been very helpful in providing feedback to correct issues that would have otherwise sent me running from the Elite. With Rad's settings it was clear to me that very pleasing colors can be achieved with the Elite... perhaps they are just as inaccurate as my Panny plasma but there you have it. I've seen a lot of variations in the shades of green on Life and other bluray material I've tested. Being so accustomed to a plasma motion for the past 3+ years that has been the most difficult part. I'm leaning more towards the VT50 at this point but until I get my bonus next month it's anyone's ball game. My wife wants to come look at both and when I mentioned that I was probably going to go 65VT50 she said "awe, I was kinda excited about getting a 70"eek.giftongue.gif I think I've reached the extent of any value I can take away from in-store demo and I will have to commit to a decision and see how I feel after a couple weeks of having whatever panel I chose on my wall. In any case the owners here have been very helpful in my decision process so thanks all!
What's that Lincoln quote... something like "if you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it you surely will"? I think the gripe is that there seems to be a stark difference between the folks with honest questions and concerns that are considering spending big $$$ for the Elite vs those that come of as trying to convince owners they wasted their money, their display is flawed given the cost, etc. I'm sure I could dig up similar posts in the Kuro Elite threads about IR, whites, well lit room performance, cost, etc. but in the end it is only you or me or whoever spends the dough and has to sit in front of the panel they purchased that has to be in a state of bliss.

Well Said.
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post #9312 of 13287
6/8/12 at 5:59am
Hey - I know it might be difficult to see with all the ladies here continuing to b*tch-slap each other, but ....

Has anyone else (other than Ken) had any issues with their calibration or heard anything about a calibrator not being able to calibrate the ISF modes or purposely avoiding calibrating the ISF modes?

To briefly recap, a calibrator I had been considering told me the following: "For your TV [Elite 70"], I can not do ISF night and day because I have to start from THX setting. ISF nigh/day slot activates the 4th (yellow) pixel in a weird way making everybody look like they have a slight tan."

I checked, and this dude is listed on the ISF website as a calibrator. I know generally this doesn't make much sense, but what if he's that one evil genius who's figured out what everyone else has missed - LOL!

Any information or anecdotes would be appreciated. I won't mind saying no, but there could be some collateral damage and I'd like to have something concrete I can say or point to (other than - "You're an idiot!").

Cheers,
JD
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post #9313 of 13287
6/8/12 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Hey - I know it might be difficult to see with all the ladies here continuing to b*tch-slap each other, but ....

Has anyone else (other than Ken) had any issues with their calibration or heard anything about a calibrator not being able to calibrate the ISF modes or purposely avoiding calibrating the ISF modes?

To briefly recap, a calibrator I had been considering told me the following: "For your TV [Elite 70"], I can not do ISF night and day because I have to start from THX setting. ISF nigh/day slot activates the 4th (yellow) pixel in a weird way making everybody look like they have a slight tan."

I checked, and this dude is listed on the ISF website as a calibrator. I know generally this doesn't make much sense, but what if he's that one evil genius who's figured out what everyone else has missed - LOL!

Any information or anecdotes would be appreciated. I won't mind saying no, but there could be some collateral damage and I'd like to have something concrete I can say or point to (other than - "You're an idiot!").

Cheers,
JD

Yellow pixel is active in THX mode, is proven! Seems that the guy believes that yellow pixel is activated by ISF night/day. Yellow pixel is active all the time so there is no activate/ inactivate going on.
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post #9314 of 13287
6/8/12 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It's not a question of having the intelligence to discern fact from fiction, it's a question of this thread being turned over to stone throwers. The S/N ratio drops to near zero when that happens and at times it has. I think you misinterpret the reaction of owners that are reacting to these stone throwers.
Has anyone reacted to the General in his criticisms of the display the way many react to the stone throwers? No. Why? Because as opposed to so many in this thread, he is sincere and that sincerity is easy to see just as the ill-intentions of many are easy to see.
Most importantly, please also notice that I and many of the same owners that you seem to think make you feel like a 'trespasser', are on the very same forums that you don't feel that way. Wonder why? Could it be that we don't have the stone throwers that take over those threads like we do here? You betcha! Over there, for the most part, there is an honest discussion of pros and cons. You see much less of those that have zero interest in the display and are there only to try to make owners feel badly about their purchase.

Did you ever think that by constantly responding to them that you are actually fueling the fire they so desperately seek? I understand it can be frustrating but obviously your approach isn't accomplishing what you want. Maybe a different tactic of ignoring those you feel are here to "seek and destroy" might be better. I for the most part stayed away from this thread for awhile but recently came back to see what might be new after a year of this TV being out on the market and what do I find, another episode of the Hatfield and the McCoys with both sides at fault to some degree.
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post #9315 of 13287
6/8/12 at 8:28am
Thanks 8mile13. I certainly doubt what this guy is saying, but just to be clear, what he wrote was "... activates the 4th (yellow) pixel in a weird way ....", which could be interpreted to mean that the ISF modes treat the yellow pixel differently than the other modes, rather than the modes turining the yellow pixel on or off. His statement could be consistent with the 4th pixel being activated in all modes, which we know to be true.

- JD

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Hey - I know it might be difficult to see with all the ladies here continuing to b*tch-slap each other, but ....

Has anyone else (other than Ken) had any issues with their calibration or heard anything about a calibrator not being able to calibrate the ISF modes or purposely avoiding calibrating the ISF modes?

To briefly recap, a calibrator I had been considering told me the following: "For your TV [Elite 70"], I can not do ISF night and day because I have to start from THX setting. ISF nigh/day slot activates the 4th (yellow) pixel in a weird way making everybody look like they have a slight tan."

I checked, and this dude is listed on the ISF website as a calibrator. I know generally this doesn't make much sense, but what if he's that one evil genius who's figured out what everyone else has missed - LOL!

Any information or anecdotes would be appreciated. I won't mind saying no, but there could be some collateral damage and I'd like to have something concrete I can say or point to (other than - "You're an idiot!").

Cheers,
JD

Yellow pixel is active in THX mode, is proven! Seems that the guy believes that yellow pixel is activated by ISF night/day. Yellow pixel is active all the time so there is no activate/ inactivate going on.
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post #9316 of 13287
6/8/12 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha 
Thanks 8mile13. I certainly doubt what this guy is saying, but just to be clear, what he wrote was "... activates the 4th (yellow) pixel in a weird way ....", which could be interpreted to mean that the ISF modes treat the yellow pixel differently than the other modes, rather than the modes turining the yellow pixel on or off. His statement could be consistent with the 4th pixel being activated in all modes, which we know to be true.
Yeah, right. You should ask him what he meant by that because its a weird statement smile.gif
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post #9317 of 13287
6/8/12 at 9:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Famouss View Post

I am torn between the Elite and the vt50. I love the Elite's black level, but I also like the vt50's color accuracy and motion. I am iffy about the Elites color accuracy and off angle viewing. I do value contrast ratio above all else though by a huge amount. Any advice guys?

I afraid only you can decide on what is best for you and what you eyes tell you. I also value Deep Inky Black levels over anything else but there are other factors to consider as well, such as the pros and cons of Plasma technoloy vs LED. I'm going to assume to know the advantages and disadvantages to both so I won't list them all below. If you are going to be sitting mainly in front of your display while viewing content then the off-axis isn't something to be concerned about, however with that said here is a few things you might consider in the below if you haven't already factored them into the equation. I hope this helps you decide and I'm sorry if I forgot to list something i'm just going from memory here, good luck with your choice both are great displays and remember nothing will ever be perfect. wink.gif

Elite
1. If you considering the 70'' Elite it's larger then the 65'' VT50.
2. The Elite comes with the 3D glasses.
3. The Elite has visually (Better) Deep Inky Black Levels and Full screen whites. Reference CNET's review for footage in Harry Potter.
4. All the advantages over Plasma, no screen burn, image retention, phosphor trails, buzzing etc.
5. Elite phone support for life.
cons.
1. Color issue
2. Pulsing
3. De-Interlacing 1080i issue. (correctable with a good AV receiver)
4. Poor off-axis viewing.
5. High cost


VT50
1. Lower cost
2. Very Accurate Color
3. Good off-axis viewing
4. Good motion handling.
5. No de-interlacing 1080i issue.
cons.
1. Bad Flicker in 96Hz mode.
2. SOE effect with motion.
3. Higher power consumption and Heat output.
4. Poor full screen whites.
5. Deep Inky Black Levels not as good as the Elite (Visually) reference CNET's review of the VT50 with Harry Potter footage. However it did measure good in true black levels.
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post #9318 of 13287
6/8/12 at 10:18am
Considering that the vt50 has at least as deep black levels as the Elite, wouldn't contrast be where the Elite clearly has an advantage? I mean, if its black levels are almost as deep as the vt50 (plasma), and its light output is much higher (LED), then its contrast has to be far superior. That's certainly what I see when I watch BR movies on my Elite, especially something like Dark City.

Furthermore, the comparison with the VT50 makes no sense at all: you'd be comparing two completely different technologies each with its own strengths and weaknesses. I for one do not consider a plasma a viable option; my living room if just too bright for daytime viewing on a plasma. I also do see flicker regularly on all plasmas on display. YMMV

Concerning the cyan/colors issue, completely overblown. I have, nor has my better half, notice anything wrong with colors at all. In fact they look better than fine...

In my opinion, Elite's weakness is in its screen uniformity, or lack thereof. I've got a darker vertical band/strip that runs all the way from top to bottom; it's faint enough, but I can spot it during certain pans. For a tv so expensive, this is certainly very disappointing.
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post #9319 of 13287
6/8/12 at 10:24am
Rad - I mostly agree with your list but in my experience I:
* Did not notice pulsing on any Elite I tested.
* Did not find the off-axis to be AS poor as it is made out to be
* Did not see SOE on the VT50 unless it was turned on
* Did not think the 96hz flicker was any worse than mine in 48hz... it may vary from one person and panel to another
* Did find the whites to be pleasing on the VT50
* Did not find the difference in blacks and contrast to be as close as the numbers suggest, in bluray content the Elite looked much much blacker

I'd also add that the Elite is more prone to perceivable DSE and struggles more than the VT50 when handling panning scenes. The VT50 handles motion effortlessly however the Elite also has more pop to the picture.

Just my 2¢
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post #9320 of 13287
6/8/12 at 10:44am
For what it's worth, here's my take (as an owner of an Elite 60"): As much as I love my Elite I do not believe it is worth the significant added expense over the VT50 (I was able to purchase mine at a significant discount so the price was not an issue relative to the VT30 at the time). So, if the price difference does matter to you (as I imagine it would for most folks), I would go with the VT50 assuming that you do not have family members who you'll need to worry about image retention and you're cool with 65" vs. 70". These are both fantastic displays!
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post #9321 of 13287
6/8/12 at 11:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Rad - I mostly agree with your list but in my experience I:
* Did not notice pulsing on any Elite I tested.
* Did not find the off-axis to be AS poor as it is made out to be
* Did not see SOE on the VT50 unless it was turned on
* Did not think the 96hz flicker was any worse than mine in 48hz... it may vary from one person and panel to another
* Did find the whites to be pleasing on the VT50
* Did not find the difference in blacks and contrast to be as close as the numbers suggest, in bluray content the Elite looked much much blacker
I'd also add that the Elite is more prone to perceivable DSE and struggles more than the VT50 when handling panning scenes. The VT50 handles motion effortlessly however the Elite also has more pop to the picture.
Just my 2¢

I agree, I was only trying to list everything I could from memory objectively.

1. I also don't (visually) see a color problem with the Elite even though the (numbers) show one.
2. I also don't find the off-axis to be an issue or very poor, in fact I think it's good for an LED. Note: This is one area I do like Plasma over LED.
3. I find the Elite (Visually) to have much Deeper Inky Black levels then the VT50 despite the (numbers).
3. I find the Full Screen Whites to be much better and very obvious in comparison tests and agree with the CNET review. It's expected because it's part of the Plasma technology.
4. I find the 96Hz Flicker to be very obvious on the VT50, in fact I could even see it through the camera broadcast in the HD Shootout. Note: The VT30 also had it bad.
5. I have spotted a few scenes that I have been told are part of the Pulsing issue on the Elite, however it's very rare and I don't consider it to be a problem but would like it fixed. I appear to be very sensitive to these types of artifacts, I had a bad case of fluctuating brightness on my VT30.
6. I've never experienced the 1080i de-interlace issue while viewing program material on cable tv. It's not uncommon for test patterns to show things that never manifest in actual video content. Note: 1080p is what is important.
7. Motion looks great on my Elite and I've never saw anything that bothers me, I come from two Plasma displays the VT30 and D8000.
8. I don't see any signs of DSE like many have, nor any vertical or horizontal banding like I did on my VT30 Plasma. Note: All displays can have it none are immune to it.

Summery, I'd buy the Elite again in a heart beat, however if the VT50 had a 70'' had equal black levels, didn't have that 96Hz flicker and wasn't so darn ugly with that outer silver bezel I'd consider getting one. Maybe the VT70 next year? wink.gif

PS: Of course I'd still have to deal with the Buzzing, Image retention, screen burn and phosphor trails of Plasma technology. I don't miss that and i'm not sure I could ever go back to that. eek.gif

PSS: I can't wait until OLED arrives. biggrin.gif
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post #9322 of 13287
6/8/12 at 11:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyb09 View Post

For what it's worth, here's my take (as an owner of an Elite 60"): As much as I love my Elite I do not believe it is worth the significant added expense over the VT50 (I was able to purchase mine at a significant discount so the price was not an issue relative to the VT30 at the time). So, if the price difference does matter to you (as I imagine it would for most folks), I would go with the VT50 assuming that you do not have family members who you'll need to worry about image retention and you're cool with 65" vs. 70". These are both fantastic displays!

I'd agree with ether decision and both way's can be justified it just depends on what your needs require, i.e. if you want the larger display or play video games or if 3D is important to you etc. I'd go with the Elite. However if I went with the VT50 tomorrow I'd put the extra money in a new OLED display when it arrives very soon. If I went with the ELITE this late in the game I'd wait longer to upgrade to OLED, probably wait for an 80''+inch 4k resolution OLED panel to justify the upgrade, that's my plan anyway. wink.gif
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post #9323 of 13287
6/8/12 at 11:37am
A little birdy told me that July is when the new 80" units will be announced and released. Supposed to have upwards of 460 dimming zones, slightly thinner chassis, but retain the brushed black border. Will also include faster dual processors and upgraded 3d glasses. Pricing would likely be about 10,500 for this beast. Evidently they are looking to release them early because of the OLED from competition and is an attempt to steal some of their thunder.

On a separate note, has a subsequent update for the pulsing and the cyan issue been fixed yet? I'm guessing it hasn't, but wanted to ask some owners.
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post #9324 of 13287
6/8/12 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

I'd agree with ether decision and both way's can be justified it just depends on what your needs require, i.e. if you want the larger display or play video games or if 3D is important to you etc. I'd go with the Elite. However if I went with the VT50 tomorrow I'd put the extra money in a new OLED display when it arrives very soon. If I went with the ELITE this late in the game I'd wait longer to upgrade to OLED, probably wait for an 80''+inch 4k resolution OLED panel to justify the upgrade, that's my plan anyway. wink.gif

That was my thought as well however I seriously doubt a top tier OLED in 70" or larger will be available at the current Elite prices for at least 4-5 years at best. Look at the disparity in price between the 65VT50 and Panny 85" plasma @ $19k. We all know the biggest regret is not getting the next size larger when consumers bring a new panel home. I happily admit the 65VT50 is a helluva a value, it vastly improves on everything that I love about my plasma. On the same token my panel use is not as varied as it was when I got my 58PZ850. The TV plays more children programs, get's left on the Netflix menu, and will see much more gaming when Halo 4 and Blops 2 drop. Additionally, I watch more foreign films with subtitles and plenty of 2.35 content so my content diet will absolutely make the new plasma more likely to have an ongoing battle with IR which may or may not bother me.

The VT50 is the safe route for me because I know I like the motion and rich color, I have no real gripes about the design, and could care less about 3D. On the flip side I want a larger TV if I'm going to get something that will not be upgraded for another 4-5 years when OLED has taken over and similarly large panels are being sold at "hey I'm not a brand new awesome technology that you must have" prices;). I absolutely love the blacks, contrast, and picture pop of the Elite. Alternatively, if for some reason I ended up with one that had a unacceptable degree or banding or DSE or if the motion handling ended up bothering me more over time that could be a big gamble. So essentially I am at the point where I'll bring the wife in, see what she thinks about both and will probably continue to alternate my commitment to each panel with each passing week until I get my bonus and take a plunge. biggrin.gif
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post #9325 of 13287
6/8/12 at 12:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

That was my thought as well however I seriously doubt a top tier OLED in 70" or larger will be available at the current Elite prices for at least 4-5 years at best. Look at the disparity in price between the 65VT50 and Panny 85" plasma @ $19k. We all know the biggest regret is not getting the next size larger when consumers bring a new panel home. I happily admit the 65VT50 is a helluva a value, it vastly improves on everything that I love about my plasma. On the same token my panel use is not as varied as it was when I got my 58PZ850. The TV plays more children programs, get's left on the Netflix menu, and will see much more gaming when Halo 4 and Blops 2 drop. Additionally, I watch more foreign films with subtitles and plenty of 2.35 content so my content diet will absolutely make the new plasma more likely to have an ongoing battle with IR which may or may not bother me.
The VT50 is the safe route for me because I know I like the motion and rich color, I have no real gripes about the design, and could care less about 3D. On the flip side I want a larger TV if I'm going to get something that will not be upgraded for another 4-5 years when OLED has taken over and similarly large panels are being sold at "hey I'm not a brand new awesome technology that you must have" prices;). I absolutely love the blacks, contrast, and picture pop of the Elite. Alternatively, if for some reason I ended up with one that had a unacceptable degree or banding or DSE or if the motion handling ended up bothering me more over time that could be a big gamble. So essentially I am at the point where I'll bring the wife in, see what she thinks about both and will probably continue to alternate my commitment to each panel with each passing week until I get my bonus and take a plunge. biggrin.gif

If you have kids who are playing with the display and Netflix menu's up for long periods of time and I'm sure they will want to be playing video games on it soon, I'd lean more towards the Elite because of Image retention and screen burn issues. Also I doubt your kinds will be watching movies mainly in the dark and you will like the Elites superior contrast for daytime viewing with the blinds and windows wide open. wink.gif
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post #9326 of 13287
6/8/12 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

I afraid only you can decide on what is best for you and what you eyes tell you. I also value Deep Inky Black levels over anything else but there are other factors to consider as well, such as the pros and cons of Plasma technoloy vs LED. I'm going to assume to know the advantages and disadvantages to both so I won't list them all below. If you are going to be sitting mainly in front of your display while viewing content then the off-axis isn't something to be concerned about, however with that said here is a few things you might consider in the below if you haven't already factored them into the equation. I hope this helps you decide and I'm sorry if I forgot to list something i'm just going from memory here, good luck with your choice both are great displays and remember nothing will ever be perfect. wink.gif
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Thanks for laying out the differences, tomorrow I will return to BB to continue my comparisons, but this time I will dial in your settings for the Elite.
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post #9327 of 13287
6/8/12 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

I checked, and this dude is listed on the ISF website as a calibrator.
I would stick to calibrators who have been active at AVS. Being listed at the ISF website only means that the "dude" took a very short course and received an attendance certificate.

Check out the calibrators who's work has been reported on in the thread that's linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.
Edited by htwaits - 6/8/12 at 12:39pm
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post #9328 of 13287
6/8/12 at 12:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi

"I have no real gripes about the design, and could care less about 3D"

PS: You may not like 3D but I bet your kids will love it. Something to consider since 3D looks better on the Elite and also come with the 3D glasses included. rolleyes.gif
Edited by RadTech51 - 6/8/12 at 12:56pm
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post #9329 of 13287
6/8/12 at 1:39pm
Thanks htwaits. I've sent in an E-mail to Kevin Miller for a start.

I'm just having rotten luck lately. Perfect example - I got in touch with Elite support to ask them if they were aware of any issues with the ISF modes or anything, and I got this gem of a response:

"Good afternoon JD,

Thank you very much for contacting us in regards to your Elite television. It is possible to do an ISF calibration on your unit. However, we cannot provide this information to you, as you are the customer. If the calibrator you are interested in using is ISF certified then he will just need to provide us with a copy of his certification and we will be more than happy to provide him with the information on the procedure. Please let them know that we can be reached at 1-855-ELITE-01 (1-855-354-8301) if they needs more assistance.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.


Thank you,

TB

Customer Assistance Center"


Well - thank you very much for completely not answering my question Elite support. Time for drinks!

- JD

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

I checked, and this dude is listed on the ISF website as a calibrator.
I would stick to calibrators who have been active at AVS. Being listed at the ISF website only means that the "dude" took a very short course and received an attendance certificate.

Check out the calibrators who's work has been reported on in the thread that's linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.
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post #9330 of 13287
6/8/12 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Thanks htwaits. I've sent in an E-mail to Kevin Miller for a start.
Well, Kevin certainly has more than a certificate of completion. We know for a fact that he's able to calibrate the Elite.

This is a list of the calibrations for which there are reports.

Barry928 for bhudleson
bht for Richard in SF
Chad B for Brutus Rex
Kevin Miller for DJ Mike Fury
Kevin Miller for RadTech51
Kevin Miller for Ken Ross
Edited by htwaits - 6/8/12 at 9:17pm
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