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Panasonic PT-AR100 MSRP$ 1,999 - 4000U replacement... kind of - Page 26

post #751 of 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

You can't do 92" screen from 22 feet - 17 feet is the farthest you can be with that size screen. And at 12 to 13 feet it will be plenty bright.
http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/

yeah, I was wondering about that but never could tell if the zoom capabilities would keep me at 92" from 23 feet.. so looks like I might need to mount right next to the ceiling fan in the middle of the room.. anyone with some suggestions on a solid ceiling mount with an extension to drop it around 24". I saw one from visual apex but didn't seem like it would be all that sturdy.. might have to look into one of the mounts from Chief I suppose..
post #752 of 1007
You may want to look at this thread for a different projector and go from there. It works great for the AR100U.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1419455/ceiling-mount-for-jvc-dla-hd250#post_22205983
post #753 of 1007
I have a HTPC with a Geforce gt430 dedicated for XBMC that will use Media Player Classic HC with ffdshow as the external player to watch all media, but which one do I calibrate? The projector, the video card, MPC, or all?
post #754 of 1007
BTW, I just finished my setup last night, but still would like to get answers to my calibration questions please....

Originally painted a 120" screen because the existing light switch got in the way....

20.jpg

Then ended up relocating the light switch into the hallway...

24.jpg

Then painted a new screen and added a black velvet frame....

27.jpg

Bam...

28.jpg

and bam.

29.jpg

Wax on...

30.jpg

Wax off...

31.jpg

And Win.

32.jpg
post #755 of 1007
what paint were you used for your screen? are you using Dynamic mode for your AR100U? more screenshots please biggrin.gif
post #756 of 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

what paint were you used for your screen? are you using Dynamic mode for your AR100U? more screenshots please biggrin.gif

I originally painted it Black Widow because it was the easiest gray mix I could figure out. Unfortunately, I do not have any pics of the PQ but overall was very pleased with it.

21.jpg

Then I ended up relocating the light switch on the wall and painted a bigger screen. Since I did not have any more Black Widow mix, I decided to make my own concoction that was a lighter gray and easily attainable. I basically went to Home Depot and used Glidden GL9000 and tinted it Behr's "Painters White." The color is actually a light gray even though the name implies white. This is my first projector and I am no expert, but my mindset was to use the most flattest base I could and tint it a light gray. Overall, I am very very pleased and my kids seems very impressed. smile.gif

Note: The can should say GL9000. I used many paints in the past and am not sure why Glidden isn't more popular than Behr in general. Shewin Williams and Kelly Moore make good paint, but I always hated Behr products. The Glidden paint seemed very high quality IMO.


27.jpg

Here's a picture of 4 canned lights fully on...

33.jpg

Then off... I believe I am using Rec709, eco mode, detail clarity +4, and Art's (Projector People) calibration setting. All my HD content is only 720P and my source my HTPC (Geforce gt430 video card) using Media Player Classic Home Cinema with ffdshow doing the rendering. I'm sure once I calibrate it using the Disney WOW disc, it can only get better. smile.gif Overall, this has been a fun experience and my kids seem to love it.

34.jpg

35.jpg

36.jpg

37.jpg


BTW, here's a picture of my Sanus Systems VMPR1. I was hesitant at first, but am really glad I found a good mount.

16.jpg

17.jpg
post #757 of 1007
EazyM3,

Do something really easy to drastically improve your ability to watch content with the lights on, even with what is essentially a "off white" screen.

Replace the Floods directly above the Screen with "Spot Bulbs", and if possible, install either rotatable "EyeBall Shields" or Wall Wash "Eye Lid Shields". Both can redirect the light away from the Screen while still allowing substantial image quality under full/limited room illumination.

Do even the "Bulb Change" thingee and both the Wax On & Wax Off shots will become "Wins"
post #758 of 1007
Does the hot air exhaust from the front grille (next to the lens)?
post #759 of 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Does the hot air exhaust from the front grille (next to the lens)?

Yes.
post #760 of 1007
Since I have 600 hours on my AR100U I decided to measure the brightness of the projector and compare it to my original readings in February.

I was interested in how much brightness loss there was since to my eyes it still looked quite bright. I only measured VIVID CINEMA in eco-mode using my lux meter, taking the average of 9 points on the screen.

Old reading: 1417 lumens.
New reading: 1333 lumens

This represents roughly a loss of 6% in brightness for 600 hours of use (the hours are calculated by the AR100U's internal clock). I am quite satisfied with a 6% loss which I believe is better than the average. I will measure again @1200 hours.
post #761 of 1007
Hi guys,

I'm from Germany and I have a question regarding the PT-AR100U.

In Europe the projector is sold under the name PT-AH1000E. Everything I read so far indicated, that it is totally identical to the PT-AR100U. However, there is one item in the description on the German Panasonic web page that is not listed in the US description: "200 Hz Intelligent Frame Creation"
German Panasonic Site
They even have a nice logo/icon for this:


German shops selling the device claim that this is a frame interpolation algorythm, but all reviews I read here state, that the projector does not have a true frame interpolation algorythm.

Does any body know, what this "200 Hz Intelligent Frame Creation" really is and if the PT-AR100U also has this feature?

Thanks and regards,
Arctos

P.S.: Sorry for the double-post as new thread. I kept getting error messages answering to this post and tried as a new thread. Now, both appeared.
Edited by Arctos-af - 7/30/12 at 5:21am
post #762 of 1007
Interesting and puzzling at the same time. My first reaction is that someone messed up at Panasonic marketing. I have seen this feature advertised on Panasonic LCD-LED HDTV's but not on projectors.

For example:
Quote:
Matched to the contrast is the breath taking motion handling. It is accepted that by introducing 2 frames to every frame ie 100hz, then motion will become smoother. This 32 inch widescreen tv also flashes the leds at 100 cycles per second. Panasonics 200hz backlight blinking Intelligent Frame Creation Pro technology adds this further refinement, and presents a dynamic which is even smoother than ever before.

This is not only about refreshing the image. The Intelligent Frame Creation uses wave analysis to constantly present the image in as smooth a detail as possible. By matching algorithms the image is constantly assessed to place on screen the very best match of frames. This micro analysis gives something so precise and so beautifully positioned, that details flow from one frame to the other with reduced, almost zero loss of quality.

The AR100U (U.S. version) has basic Frame Interpolation, a feature I don't care for or use.

From Art Feierman's review:
Quote:
PT-AR100U Frame Interpolation - FI - not CFI

Like almost all of the lower cost 1080p home projectors, Panasonic's PT-AR100U, lacks CFI for smooth motion, but does have basic FI (frame interpolation), which has its own advantages, but also when engaged, bothers some. (I'm one who can watch CFI no problem, but most 2:2 or 4:4 FI does affect me negatively, so I don't use it on this Panasonic, the Epson 8350, and other projectors which offer it as an option). Other people I know, prefer to have it engaged, especially with 24 fps content. FI, therefore seems like RBE (rainbow effect) in that different people, different reactions (or in the case of RBE - rainbows, for most people, no reaction at all).

http://www.projectorreviews.com/panasonic/pt-ar100u/index.php

EDIT: I've looked at several overseas sites selling this projector and noticed they have advertised this feature going back to Fall 2011. So I have no clue as to why it's included in the European version and not in the USA. It's hard to believe that the basic Frame Interpolation on the AR100U is also known as 200 Hz IFC.
Edited by Mr.G - 7/30/12 at 5:43pm
post #763 of 1007
Thanks for the reply.

Can you (or anyone else) explain the fundamental differences between FI and CFI?

I have compared the german and english manuals. There is no indication for any added functionality in the german version. The only setting that sounds, like it could be about frame interpolation is the so called "motion effect" and that setting also is available in the US version.

Maybe it's just a case of bold marketing. However, that would be quiet misleading, because the frame interpolation on the PT-AE4000 was called 100 Hz intelligent frame creation. So, you would think, that 200 Hz IFC should be something superior.

Regards,
Arctos
post #764 of 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

EazyM3,
Do something really easy to drastically improve your ability to watch content with the lights on, even with what is essentially a "off white" screen.
Replace the Floods directly above the Screen with "Spot Bulbs", and if possible, install either rotatable "EyeBall Shields" or Wall Wash "Eye Lid Shields". Both can redirect the light away from the Screen while still allowing substantial image quality under full/limited room illumination.
Do even the "Bulb Change" thingee and both the Wax On & Wax Off shots will become "Wins"

I have a setup almost like EazyM3s, except for i have three cans across the front, would the spot bulbs or the eye lid shields be better?
post #765 of 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctos-af View Post

Thanks for the reply.
Can you (or anyone else) explain the fundamental differences between FI and CFI?
I have compared the german and english manuals. There is no indication for any added functionality in the german version. The only setting that sounds, like it could be about frame interpolation is the so called "motion effect" and that setting also is available in the US version.
Maybe it's just a case of bold marketing. However, that would be quiet misleading, because the frame interpolation on the PT-AE4000 was called 100 Hz intelligent frame creation. So, you would think, that 200 Hz IFC should be something superior.
Regards,
Arctos

The difference between FI and CFI? Sorry, I'm not an expert on the subject, I just assumed CFI is a more sophisticated algorithm than FI, not sure because many reviewers don't really differentiate between the two terms. At any rate Panasonic calls frame interpolation Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC) (every manufacturer has their own designation). The PT-AE7000U 3D model uses the D9 LCD panels which have been long advertised to be 240 Hz compatible to 480 Hz. The AR100U 2D also uses the same panels spec'd out to the usual 60 Hz (50 Hz in Europe). The PT-AE4000U buffered 3 frames for analysis in Mode 3 for 100 Hz IFC so what that means for 200 Hz IFC is a good question. The 200 Hz IFC mentioned for the AR100U seems to imply a four times factor for the native 50 Hz used in Europe. Again, it seems like a marketing ploy that isn't explained in the literature and you should probably contact Panasonic support in your region and ask them what 200 Hz Intelligent Frame Creation is supposed to achieve.
post #766 of 1007
Ok, I contacted the german panasonic support and asked what the 200 Hz IFC is supposed to do.

My english translation of there reply would be this:

200 Hz IFC analyzes the input signal and calculates and optimizes each individual frame. Additionally, with the help of this technology, vector-based motion detection is applied in each direction and intermediate frames get interpolated and inserted.

No idea, how this translates into the FI versus CFI separation...

I also asked about a comparison of the functionality to the PT-AE4000's 100 Hz IFC, but that part of my question got ignored.
They also would not commit to any statements regarding differences between PT-AH1000E and PT-AR100U.
post #767 of 1007
Too bad they were so vague but general support is like that with any company. I've learned they rarely answer more than one question at a time. I sometimes try to get the question booted up to technical support where an engineer will answer, although that usually takes longer to get a response. I submitted the same question here to Panasonic USA and will let you know what they say.

I think the term Creative Frame Interpolation (CFI) was coined by Epson although I'm not sure about that and some reviewers seem to use it interchangeably with any FI algorithm used by other companies.

Here's an article on CFI by Art Feierman.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog/2009/05/11/epson-home-cinema-6500-ub-cfi-creative-frame-interpolation-final/
post #768 of 1007
Hi Mr.G

I was wondering about the FI myself, and you had mentioned "the AR100U has basic Frame Interpolation, a feature I don't care for or use". What is this setting called in the menu? Is this the "motion effect"? If you remember, I've been writing here with what I believe to be issues with my unit. I've been quite busy and haven't had an opportunity to call in or send it in (and I've been hoping that it may be something wrong with my set up and not the projector). I posted what I thought was an issue with the eco/normal mode which ended up being my mistake with the Auto Eco mode features. However, the motion is what is still really bothersome. So much so my wife even notices and she's usually happy with whatever. The motion is so bad that it can sometimes make me a little dizzy with how choppy it is, especially in brighter panning shots. Is this a possible problem that can be caused by a blu ray player or an HDMI cable? Anyway, thanks for keepin' up with every ones questions on this projector.
post #769 of 1007
Cubby - When I mentioned Frame Interpolation I was just repeating the general term the reviewers have been using. As you know from reading through the owner's manual there is no mention of Frame Interpolation or Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC) so we are all kind of in the dark as to why in Germany IFC is advertised on their version of the AR100U. The features that we know we have are Frame Response - normal and fast, this feature I assume would benefit Game picture mode and maybe video, not sure. Motion Effect which is either on or off. Motion Effect is coupled to Detail Clarity which is supposed to provide a sharper/clearer image especially when used in the Sports picture mode but will work in any mode. There is also a feature called Cinema Reality (on or off) which is only effective with 24 frames a second interlaced video.
Quote:
Motion Effect function ensures that the fast-moving images are crisp and clear. This new technology detects and analyzes the brightness and frequency distribution data of the image. Based on this analysis, it optimizes the sharpness along a time axis to maintain naturally sharp images for best possible viewing.
Quote:
While the Motion Effect system does help to smooth out fast-moving scenes somewhat, it is no match for a true frame interpolation system like that on the AE7000.

When I wrote to Panasonic support inquiring about IFC they replied:
Quote:
Dear valued customer

Thank you for your inquiry,

Both units have a feature that detects a missing frame and will duplicate a frame to fill in for the missing frame so that the video plays without interruption.

Thank you for contacting Panasonic

So no help there. rolleyes.gif

Back to your problem - if you see judder on slow panning shots this is a common problem on projectors without any frame interpolation. I also see it from time to time but not enough to bother me and sometimes it is a problem with the source rather than the projector. I have my Blu-ray player set to 24p and generally speaking I see this problem more with up-converted DVD's than I do with Blu-rays. I also watch Time Warner HD channels with my cable box set to output 1080i and I don't really notice judder when watching HDTV. Is there a particular source that gives you the most problems - or is it all?


Edited by Mr.G - 8/8/12 at 6:50am
post #770 of 1007
So i am a week into my Panny AR100, i switched over from a BenQw1000 to get more lumens. 60% of my projector time is spent playing xbox, which the PT-ar100 has so little lag it rocks for a gaming system. The other 40% is watching sports with buddies or kids watching movies. In that 40% i need to keep the lights on more than a normal theater environment, with buddies in my basement they always want more light to eat or play cards, and with the kids they always want more lights for playing barbies or trains. So this projector is working perfect, it is brighter with my lights all the way on, then my BenQ with the lights all the way off. Contrast is really nice, and startup is allot faster also.

My only complaints,
-it is noticeably louder with fan noise, even on eco mode.
-its so much heavier that my Chief mount seems to need readjusted more often, but i think i need to center the weight more
-i wish it had on and off buttons, instead of a power toggle, as my Harmony 1100 is always hitting the power toggle in between switching sources, and it always asks to confirm powering down




overall I am very happy with the switch!
post #771 of 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanntastic View Post

My only complaints,
-it is noticeably louder with fan noise, even on eco mode.
-its so much heavier that my Chief mount seems to need readjusted more often, but i think i need to center the weight more

Make sure you haven't engaged the High Altitude mode. I did this once accidentally when experimenting with my settings and wondered why the fan was noticeably louder than normal in eco mode. Otherwise I rarely notice the fan noise during a movie or show or I've just gotten used to it.

I used the Peerless PRG-UNV ($89) to put up my projector. The adjustments in the mounting arms allowed me to position it directly over the center of gravity plus the geared adjustment wheels do not allow for any movement once set. Recommended.

post #772 of 1007
i remounted it and i think i got the weight distributed better now, should be good


can somebody post the Art settings, for some reason work firewall is blocking the actual article
post #773 of 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanntastic View Post

i remounted it and i think i got the weight distributed better now, should be good
can somebody post the Art settings, for some reason work firewall is blocking the actual article

Panasonic PT-AR100U Basic Settings

Cinema 1 Vivid Cinema Game Normal Dynamic Rec. 709 Sports
Contrast = (0) 0 -1 -2 -2 3 -2 -2
Brightness = (0) 1 2 4 2 0 4 4
Color = (0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Tint = (0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Color Temp is at default (0) on all
Lamp Mode=Normal (unless noted otherwise)
Dynamic Iris On.
All other settings at default (untouched)

PT-AR100U RGB Settings

Cinema (on User 1) Quick Cal of Dynamic (on User 2)
Contrast R = 5 R= 10
G = -4 G= -15
B = -4 B= -15
Brightness R = -2 R= 0
G = 0 G= 0
B = 1 B= 0
post #774 of 1007
Thanks once again for the response Mr. G

I notice the stutter mostly in high res media such as Blu Ray. I seems to be the absolute worst in bright panning shots. I was watching "Weeds" the other day, and it was absolutely jarring. I do however notice it when anything is moving faster than a walk. It seems to be much less noticeable when streaming Netflix or Hulu of which I never actually get up to HD. I'm still very concerned, I feel what I'm seeing would be discussed as an issue with this projector, but it seems to not really bother anyone else. So I'm still stuck with the dilemma of "is it the projector, or is it what I'm feeding it"?

I've played around a little with the Frame Response settings and the Motion Effects, but don't really see much of a difference. I wish I could try a stand alone Blu Ray player, unfortunately all I have is a couple PS3s and an XBox. The Xbox I use primarily for games, which I can't really judge the problem with.
post #775 of 1007
Cubby, you may want to Google "ps3 blu-ray judder" and see what you come up with. It would be nice if you could borrow a stand-alone Blu-ray player just to see if the problem lies with your machine. I have both a Panasonic 210 player and a Sony 350 player (both set to output 24p) and I don't normally see the problems you are experiencing.
post #776 of 1007
Hello,

My wife and I were looking at putting together a small projection setup that we could pull up and take down for watching the occasional movie and playing games. For a screen, we were looking at purchasing the Da-Lite 94129 Theater-Lite, 80 inches. Both my wife and I are sensitive to RBE so DLP projectors are not an option. I'm leaning towards this projector because of the reliability issues noted on Epson projectors. We have light control but do not mind using the projector with ambient light. Ultimately we plan to set the projector up with a fixed-frame screen screen but that won't happen for about a year or so.

Are there anything issues we should be aware of with this projector/screen combination? Also, are there any other projectors that we should be considering?

Thanks in Advance!
post #777 of 1007
The Da-Lite 94129 Theater-Lite is a nice portable screen but at 80 inches may be too small for the lumen output of the AR100U. An 80 inch screen gives you a throw range from 7 feet 9 inches to 15 feet 7 inches.

At the mid range throw of 10 feet 4 inches it produces 40 fL in Dynamic mode at full power. You can trim that back by dropping into eco-power and using the dimmest mode - the Rec709 - which will require some calibration to get the best picture.

Whether this will be enough to tame this light cannon I can't say and may require the use of a camera lens filter like the ND4. So in effect the smallish screen doesn't make this a good match.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AR100U-projection-calculator-pro.htm
post #778 of 1007
Thanks for the response. I was afraid that might be the case. Are there any non dlp options out there for this type of application?
post #779 of 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by biznus97 View Post

Thanks for the response. I was afraid that might be the case. Are there any non dlp options out there for this type of application?

Look through Coderguy's picks for ideas.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391476/coderguys-top-projector-picks
post #780 of 1007
I received my Panasonic AR100U last week and got it setup over the weekend. I initially thought I had some issue with the IR trigger on my projector, but I've been able to execute a trigger through the same cable with a 9v battery. This leads me to believe that something is going on with my AR100U that isn't sending it's 12v through the trigger port. I've set the port to Output and Power ON. I need it to send it's signal to the projection screen for it to drop/rise when the projector is turned on and off. I'm using a CAT5 from the screen through the projector and have no problems having it rise/drop when I stil a 9v battery to it, but it won't work at all connected to the projector.

One question is if it's supposed to be a mono or stereo 3.5mm jack. I've been using a mono because I read somewhere that is what triggers used, but not positive. Do I have it set up right by selecting OUTPUT and POWER ON? Am I missing something here? I cannot get it to work for the life of me. Not sure if it's a faulty unit or not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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