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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 61

post #1801 of 4378
3/19/12 at 10:26pm
the auto iris full is not for dark pit rooms. Sony recommends limited for that. Full pumps up the whites too much for a dark room.
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post #1802 of 4378
3/19/12 at 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

the auto iris full is not for dark pit rooms. Sony recommends limited for that. Full pumps up the whites too much for a dark room.

What setting do you recommend for caves?
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post #1803 of 4378
3/20/12 at 6:39am
Murat. You know the answer I will give. It depends. Depends upon your screen size and gain and I suppose how bright you want the picture. Auto iris full is brighter than auto iris limited. It boosts the whites big time for mixed scenes where the iris is clamped down. In my set up, its just too bright and the whites appear to clip a bit.
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post #1804 of 4378
3/20/12 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Murat. You know the answer I will give. It depends. Depends upon our screen size and gain and I suppose how bright you want the picture. Auto iris full is brighter than auto iris limited. It boosts the whites big time for mixed scenes where the iris is clamped down. In my set up , its just too and the whites appear to clip a bit.


Hello Mark, I somehow knew your answer I justed wanted to get a correct starting point before I start making personal tweaks once I get the Sony.

My screen is a 3mt wide Firehawk G3 (2.35). Room totally dark with grey walls and ceiling.
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post #1805 of 4378
3/20/12 at 9:35am
Mark..the trouble with auto iris i am seeing is too much black crush..shadows on faces become way too contrasty and dark. Don't know if its the subject matter or the iris but turning it off seems to work. For me the limited iris is too dim to use.
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post #1806 of 4378
3/20/12 at 1:21pm
so is this thing 120 hz or 240 hz? i've read several sources stating 120.

Also, how is the input lag on it? has anybody tested this?
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post #1807 of 4378
3/20/12 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

so is this thing 120 hz or 240 hz? i've read several sources stating 120.

Also, how is the input lag on it? has anybody tested this?

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post #1808 of 4378
3/21/12 at 4:07pm
Feels like it is time for a marathon with the 1000ES.
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post #1809 of 4378
3/21/12 at 4:18pm
I have my second 1000 replacement scheduled for shipment next week for the banding and uniformity issues...hoping this new unit address those issues. The red band at the bottom has worsened over the past week - the mid band remains the same.

Sony has been excellent to deal with thus far; they apparently are selling the 1000's at a good pace, so I'm awaiting inventory...

They have not identified the banding issue at this point, so perhaps it's a unit to unit anomaly - nonetheless, my current unit will go directly to an engineer in california to try and isolate the issue.
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post #1810 of 4378
3/21/12 at 7:03pm
I talked with Mark the other day and will be joining the club.

Where can I find a throw calculator for this unit as the pjcentral one is way off from what I can tell. I have a small problem that can be dealt with as the theater is still unfinished. The current place for mounting it is right at 15' and I have duct work ran to where the hushbox will be located along with romex and a few other cables. They all can be moved no problem but I need to know where to move them. I'm going with around a 1 gain scope 13' AT screen if possible (thats the largest I can go but could go smaller). Can I go this big with an AT screen if I can place the pj between 16'-19.5'? 2D will be 90% and 3D 10%.

I'm getting excited about this unit as it will be my first high end projector. First and current one is a JVC RS1x.
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post #1811 of 4378
3/21/12 at 7:11pm
A nice thing about this banding and uniformity issues that some of these units have is that that the issue really is pretty much not visible when watching content. It shows up on on off pixel patterns and in some uniform gray field so if one has to wait a bit for Sony to ship a replacement they can continue to very much enjoy the machine because Sony doesn't require the return of the unit with the unit after the new one shows up at your door.

I have been working with the Sony west coast engineer on these issues similarly as I work have worked with him on a variety of other matters over the years and I will post what information we get from his and my tests that I can subject to my NDA. I wouldn't expect an extremely quick isolation of the cause and a fix, but that will come I expect in the near future.
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post #1812 of 4378
3/21/12 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

A nice thing about this banding and uniformity issues that some of these units have is that that the issue really is pretty much not visible when watching content. It shows up on on off pixel patterns and in some uniform gray field so if one has to wait a bit for Sony to ship a replacement they can continue to very much enjoy the machine because Sony doesn't require the return of the unit with the unit after the new one shows up at your door.

I have been working with the Sony west coast engineer on these issues similarly as I work have worked with him on a variety of other matters over the years and I will post what information we get from his and my tests that I can subject to my NDA. I wouldn't expect an extremely quick isolation of the cause and a fix, but that will come I expect in the near future.

Mark

Good to hear you are involved on this - Sony knows the next unit they send me may still have the issue and thus need to be replaced again, but they want to capture mine direct to the engineer since they've been having some difficulty getting the three or four units already returned to Laredo for this issue located and forwarded to the right resources.

In my case, I do see the banding watching real material, especially the red band at the bottom. Even the mid-band causes artifacts in mid to low intensity scenes with some uniformity (grass, sky). I actually took a video of a PGA broadcast and you can see the issue as the camera pans down from the sky to the putting green.

I'm confident Sony will get this right. It's too great of a projector to allow that kind of defect to persist.
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post #1813 of 4378
3/21/12 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

the auto iris full is not for dark pit rooms. Sony recommends limited for that. Full pumps up the whites too much for a dark room.

I like the auto iris full setting in my dark pit but I'm losing a lot of lumens by being at the long end of the throw. I can also see the banding at times while watching movies and should be getting my second projector replacement soon.
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post #1814 of 4378
3/21/12 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Murat. You know the answer I will give. It depends. Depends upon your screen size and gain and I suppose how bright you want the picture. Auto iris full is brighter than auto iris limited. It boosts the whites big time for mixed scenes where the iris is clamped down. In my set up, its just too bright and the whites appear to clip a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

I like the auto iris full setting in my dark pit but I'm losing a lot of lumens by being at the long end of the throw. I can also see the banding at times while watching movies and should be getting my second projector replacement soon.

Have to say last night I was reading a couple posts about full auto iris while viewing some stuff and particularly Mark's comments. I was already aware from bluray test patterns and viewing material via HTPC, that the auto iris full really seemed to pump too hard and was clipping. So I finally dropped down to limited iris with the TV based content I was viewing and found that really it suits the my room setup, which is def not a batcave by far. Checked some patterns with Calman and seems the clipping is gone and it's not pumping nearly as bad. But it seems my modest screen size and modest throw dist combo still means its better to use limited or even fixed iris when lights are off. Very different of course in mixed lighting situations that often occur with my setup, there's a def need for max output and auto iris for those specific situs.
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post #1815 of 4378
3/21/12 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I have my second 1000 replacement scheduled for shipment next week for the banding and uniformity issues...hoping this new unit address those issues. The red band at the bottom has worsened over the past week - the mid band remains the same.

Sony has been excellent to deal with thus far; they apparently are selling the 1000's at a good pace, so I'm awaiting inventory...

They have not identified the banding issue at this point, so perhaps it's a unit to unit anomaly - nonetheless, my current unit will go directly to an engineer in california to try and isolate the issue.

Thrang - sorry to hear about the inconvenience. It is nice though having the assurance of the excellent exchange program behind you isn't it? Advanced exchange - let's see JVC do that.

When you said that you have your second replacement scheduled - do you mean your second unit total, or indeed your second replacement (that one then being the third)? Both units have had this issue? I had uniformity / banding issues (yellowish / brownish horizontal bands) on the RS1 in years past so I know that indeed it is VERY distracting, even if the bands are slight.

My original VW95, which was returned do to a fan problem, had some pinkish hues visible in bright scenes - the replacement unit is exceptional in this regard. I wouldn't have exchanged the unit just for this, but its hard for me to see a bright scene now without appreciating how clean and good the uniformity is.

Hope your replacement is a beauty and a keeper.
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post #1816 of 4378
3/21/12 at 9:14pm
Inasmuch as some of these banding issues have appeared, after some hours on the projector and reportedly worsened, Sony's track record may be important. Any comments on Sony's usual and customary responses to banding issues, as noted in several posts above, if occurring and/or worsening after, say 90 days of receipt or 1 year or...? Extended warranty comments for the same issues reported here?

Thank you very much

Fury
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post #1817 of 4378
3/21/12 at 9:14pm
I heard from someone that the VW1000 does not expose the Open Reg and Close Reg parameters in the service menu. Is that indeed the case?

That's a bit concerning if so, as I sure hope it is not a trend from this point going forward with all their models. I made some very nice tweaks to the auto iris (which cut the black floor in HALF) which I detailed in the VW95 owners thread if anyone's curious.
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post #1818 of 4378
3/21/12 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I heard from someone that the VW1000 does not expose the Open Reg and Close Reg parameters in the service menu. Is that indeed the case?

That's a bit concerning if so, as I sure hope it is not a trend from this point going forward with all their models. I made some very nice tweaks to the auto iris (which cut the black floor in HALF) which I detailed in the VW95 owners thread if anyone's curious.

Interesting, I'll have a squizz for when I reinstall my 95 elsewhere shortly. I won't say it's like trying to guild the lily so to speak with service menu iris tweaks on the 1000, but I'm not sure I'd be super upset if the parameters weren't there. Well at least not so far with what's available at the standard menu level. If it was, I too would hope it was only omitted from the upper series Sony's and not any successors to the 95 say, which to date have been worth being able to tweak. I remember tweaking the VW100's iris in the service menu to get a decent performance improvement without particular bad pumping issues as a result.
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post #1819 of 4378
3/22/12 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thrang - sorry to hear about the inconvenience. It is nice though having the assurance of the excellent exchange program behind you isn't it? Advanced exchange - let's see JVC do that.

When you said that you have your second replacement scheduled - do you mean your second unit total, or indeed your second replacement (that one then being the third)? Both units have had this issue? I had uniformity / banding issues (yellowish / brownish horizontal bands) on the RS1 in years past so I know that indeed it is VERY distracting, even if the bands are slight.

My original VW95, which was returned do to a fan problem, had some pinkish hues visible in bright scenes - the replacement unit is exceptional in this regard. I wouldn't have exchanged the unit just for this, but its hard for me to see a bright scene now without appreciating how clean and good the uniformity is.

Hope your replacement is a beauty and a keeper.

Second replacement coming, so third total. So the original purchase and first replacement exhibited the issues.
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post #1820 of 4378
3/22/12 at 6:41am
From what I have been told, no changes have been made to the machine from the first production run.

Sony is requesting that the dealer be the one who interfaces with the dealer integrator support folks re problems and requests for replacement machines, so if you have problems give your dealer a call.

I have had three machines to QC before delivery to customers, and only one has had the banding and uniformity issues. I have now put about 50 hours on the one with the problem. I can honestly say the re content the problem does not manifest itself to any significant extent. I forced myself to try and see it in content and yes if I look caregfully at certain type scenes I can slightly see it, but I tend to watch when I watch and not be destracted by relatively minor artifacts. This has always been the case with projectors. Almost every projector out there has some artifacts and we tend to pound and pound on them, yet we forget the magic that a projector, even a fecale posterior (not me going to have words auto edited out) one, does. I will be watching the games today and my wife and I watched two movies in 3D the last few days. Hugo and Journey to the Center of the Earth. At no time did my wife say anything other than how temendous the video quality was and I doubt any banding could be perceived in 3D through the glasses. When watching live video, it is possible to slightly perceive it on the right scene but if I am watching the event or whatever and not forcing myself to find some artifact I really don't perceive it. My wife's comments when she demanded to watch whatever she watches on TV (I was forced to leave the room to avoid terminal brain rot) was that she could no longer watch our large plasma or anything other panel nor could she watch any of our previous projectors. This is serious and is no joke.The picture is a real big step closer to being there and I will tell you what the REALLY REALLY ANNOYING thing that the Sony does and to me and I think to most who don't have one of these things would find REALLY REALLY ANNOYING is that it makes lesser projectors unwatcheable and I am serious. It is so much more lifelike and much much much less videolike, I just do not want to watch something else. I have had a slew of good projectors which I have really enjoyed but this is so much better in being lifelike its scary. Its not that the others aren't good but this mother raises the bar and makes watching the others very very annoying to me. And I am being serious here. I guess if I didn't have one, I could get used to the others and enjoy them but . . . I have been spoiled.
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post #1821 of 4378
3/22/12 at 6:44am
how much will it cost ??
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post #1822 of 4378
3/22/12 at 7:17am
How much will what cost? If you are asking for the price of the 1000ES, give us a call.
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post #1823 of 4378
3/22/12 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Srgtfury View Post

Inasmuch as some of these banding issues have appeared, after some hours on the projector and reportedly worsened, Sony's track record may be important. Any comments on Sony's usual and customary responses to banding issues, as noted in several posts above, if occurring and/or worsening after, say 90 days of receipt or 1 year or...? Extended warranty comments for the same issues reported here?

Thank you very much

Fury

I think Mark's post is the most revealing - if I'm reading it right, he is working with Sony as he has in the past on rectifying this issue.

Sony is aware of these reported issues and agree it is not right, but they haven't ascertained if its a build, design, processing, calibration, or ship defect AFAIK. Since many have not reported the issue, or are watching content that doesn't reveal it so readily, one might assume its not so systemic but some unit to unit variation in the build or final calibration process - but who knows....

The only mildly disappointing thing was that after two weeks of my original bad unit being sent back, they had yet to locate this unit in their Laredo shipping center (nor the other bad units returned even prior to mine), so AFAIK, no Sony engineer has actually evaluated a returned unit. This is why I suggested they swap mine and send me a special label so it goes directly to their appropriate engineering resources, and that was agreed to in less then 20 minutes. Their EFF process could use a tweak...

Beyond images/video/descriptions sent by affected users, my understanding is they were able to see the issue to some level with one of their bench units.

With a three year warranty, I'm sure you are safe if the issue were to crop up in the future...my sense is they are looking to identify and squash this quickly.

I must say, it is odd - because normally, this type of issue would have me hopping mad- but I think the combination of great support thus far from Sony and the the type of image this projector can throw settles my heart rate down quite a bit...I don't mind being patient if I feel there is genuine concern and efforts to rectify. JVC could learn something in this regard...
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post #1824 of 4378
3/22/12 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

From what I have been told, no changes have been made to the machine from the first production run.

Sony is requesting that the dealer be the one who interfaces with the dealer integrator support folks re problems and requests for replacement machines, so if you have problems give your dealer a call.

I have had three machines to QC before delivery to customers, and only one has had the banding and uniformity issues. I have now put about 50 hours on the one with the problem. I can honestly say the re content the problem does not manifest itself to any significant extent. I forced myself to try and see it in content and yes if I look caregfully at certain type scenes I can slightly see it, but I tend to watch when I watch and not be destracted by relatively minor artifacts. This has always been the case with projectors. Almost every projector out there has some artifacts and we tend to pound and pound on them, yet we forget the magic that a projector, even a fecale posterior (not me going to have words auto edited out) one, does. I will be watching the games today and my wife and I watched two movies in 3D the last few days. Hugo and Journey to the Center of the Earth. At no time did my wife say anything other than how temendous the video quality was and I doubt any banding could be perceived in 3D through the glasses. When watching live video, it is possible to slightly perceive it on the right scene but if I am watching the event or whatever and not forcing myself to find some artifact I really don't perceive it. My wife's comments when she demanded to watch whatever she watches on TV (I was forced to leave the room to avoid terminal brain rot) was that she could no longer watch our large plasma or anything other panel nor could she watch any of our previous projectors. This is serious and is no joke.The picture is a real big step closer to being there and I will tell you what the REALLY REALLY ANNOYING thing that the Sony does and to me and I think to most who don't have one of these things would find REALLY REALLY ANNOYING is that it makes lesser projectors unwatcheable and I am serious. It is so much more lifelike and much much much less videolike, I just do not want to watch something else. I have had a slew of good projectors which I have really enjoyed but this is so much better in being lifelike its scary. Its not that the others aren't good but this mother raises the bar and makes watching the others very very annoying to me. And I am being serious here. I guess if I didn't have one, I could get used to the others and enjoy them but . . . I have been spoiled.

Full agreement that this is a fantastic projector, but perhaps the banding issue severity is variable - see this short video, and look at the lower horizontal quarter of the screen as the shot lands on the green and the camera pans down - that to me is too noticeable (you will need Quicktime, and if you have a lot of glare on your monitor that will mask the issue)

http://gallery.me.com/gbastug#100459...&bgcolor=black
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post #1825 of 4378
3/22/12 at 9:03am
I dont mind having to swap out for banding, but if one that DIDNT show banding all of a sudden started in a few months, then there would be no advanced exchange. A $180-$200 shipping bill to get it back to them for replacement would NOT be cool!

Hopefully those that show no banding will never exhibit it!
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post #1826 of 4378
3/22/12 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I dont mind having to swap out for banding, but if one that DIDNT show banding all of a sudden started in a few months, then there would be no advanced exchange. A $180-$200 shipping bill to get it back to them for replacement would NOT be cool!

Hopefully those that show no banding will never exhibit it!

Zactly! + maybe Sony will look at it the way dead pixels are counted, as within X tolerance, 'specially, if this becomes pervasive and incidence and severity are accretive. The shipping charges would pale. While this is a worse case scenario, it is not the worst case, of course. This is the reason for Fury's post regarding any experience with Sony and similar issues. Fury recall's, with previously suppressed nightmarish sentiment, a sony overheating laptop battery and the Sony, New jersey "response" to that issue...

Thank you very much

Fury
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post #1827 of 4378
3/22/12 at 11:53am
I have the screen info for you.
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post #1828 of 4378
3/22/12 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Full agreement that this is a fantastic projector, but perhaps the banding issue severity is variable - see this short video, and look at the lower horizontal quarter of the screen as the shot lands on the green and the camera pans down - that to me is too noticeable (you will need Quicktime, and if you have a lot of glare on your monitor that will mask the issue)

http://gallery.me.com/gbastug#100459...&bgcolor=black

Yeah, I can see it. Other than that, looks great though

Let us know how the replacement is. I'm still getting an on and off high pitch (like a dog whistle) which is annoying, but I don't know if I want to exchange it if these banding issues are common (as mine doesn't have them)....
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post #1829 of 4378
3/22/12 at 12:07pm
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Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

Yeah, I can see it. Other than that, looks great though

Yeah, kind of like that chick in the bar on Mars in Total Recall...kind of hot, except for that third boob...
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post #1830 of 4378
3/22/12 at 12:09pm
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Yeah, kind of like that chick in the bar on Mars in Total Recall...kind of hot, except for that third boob...

nah, not that bad. But funny comment!
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