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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 8

post #211 of 4370
9/16/11 at 3:25pm
I am excited about the 1000. Now if Sony could come out with a player and have some of their movie studios produce 4K material, we would all be sitting pretty
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post #212 of 4370
9/16/11 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

I am excited about the 1000. Now if Sony could come out with a player and have some of their movie studios produce 4K material, we would all be sitting pretty

Very true, yet independent of 4K I'm excited by 2000 lumens and 1M:1 CR. Let's hope it all comes together, along with all the other strong Sony attributes/features (sharpness, excellent motion handling, lens memory, low noise, short min throw ratio, etc.).
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post #213 of 4370
9/16/11 at 8:47pm
www.cine4home.de has a preliminary discussion of the Sony 1000 (the 'Valkurie') on their website (in German), a report from IFA in Berlin. Here below (via google translation) is a comment in the blog that followed, having to do with the scaling of 2K to 4K:

"Scaling: We got shown at IFA, Sharp particular scaling algorithms 2K> 4K, the HD is actually enhanced visible to everyone. As surprising as this is also not that many years ago succeeded Wed PAL-> HD-ready with extensive external scaler or HTPC.

Nowadays, such a scaling processors are even more intelligent, with structure and pattern recognition, stored textures etc, etc. Sony is working according to their own similar scaling methods such as Sharp. If the results are also equally impressive, the advantage is obvious. The engineers are aware that the success of the VW1000 depends considerably on its scaling qualities.

Bzgl. 3D light yield, we take the bet, of course not, because we know at present is not the 4k-activation times and Reaktionszeitden the panels. Until then, we are pleased simply optimistic of prediction

Regards,
Cine4Home"

I 'think' that he liked the 2K --> 4K scaling result: "the HD is actually enhanced visible to everyone."
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post #214 of 4370
9/16/11 at 9:45pm
The one who designed SHARP's scaling processor used to work for Sony and he designed Sony's "DRC" circuit used in BRAVIAs.

His new scaling processor (the one used by SHARP) is called "ICC (Integrated Cognitive Creation)"
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post #215 of 4370
9/17/11 at 10:03am
OK I'll bite.

Sony is dead?

I don't think so. It may not dominate like it once dead. It faces far more competition and it must do more with less people in these worldwide difficult economic times. It must recover from severe damage caused by the eartkquake. It must rely on certain products being out sourced based on labor costs.

But it ain't dead. Tell me where else makes a projector of this quality or performane for a MSRP of $25K?

Could things be better in this projector? Could you be better?

Yes. Everyone can't excell at everything and most not at anything. Maybe Sharps scaling of 1080p to 4K will be better than Sony's. But I am sure Sony's will be very good. And the aftermarket likely will come out with external scalers better than either.
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post #216 of 4370
9/17/11 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy bear View Post

The one who designed SHARP's scaling processor used to work for Sony and he designed Sony's "DRC" circuit used in BRAVIAs.

His new scaling processor (the one used by SHARP) is called "ICC (Integrated Cognitive Creation)"

It's good to see more effort in developing 4K display capability, beit a Sharp large screen lcd tv [http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...10906/198001/], the Sony 1000 projector, or the JVC e-shifting projector. This should help stimulate the development of successively better scalers and ultimately 4K sources themselves.
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post #217 of 4370
9/17/11 at 12:50pm
Please keep thread on topic to Sony. Thank you!
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post #218 of 4370
9/17/11 at 4:47pm
I read this regarding the 1000 over at Projector Central:

"Price is expected to be under $25,000 and shipment is scheduled for December. No word on whether the price includes the lens."

Seriously? LMAO..........

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post #219 of 4370
9/17/11 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

I read this regarding the 1000 over at Projector Central:

"Price is expected to be under $25,000 and shipment is scheduled for December. No word on whether the price includes the lens."

Seriously? LMAO..........


Agreed--this was a crazy comment. The lens is an integrable part of the pj.
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post #220 of 4370
9/17/11 at 5:29pm
millerwill......you are have me thinking about this projector........could be bread and water for the next few months saving up!

.....any info filtered through about the dimentions of this beauty?
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post #221 of 4370
9/17/11 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

millerwill......you are have me thinking about this projector........could be bread and water for the next few months saving up!

.....any info filtered through about the dimentions of this beauty?

At CEDIA I used a 8.5x11 sheet of paper to get a rough measure of the dimensions of the BASE, which is relevant to whether or not it will fit on the stand that I have behind our 2 recliners (it will, just!). This is 15"W and 18.5"D. The full cabinet is obviously larger.

The only other data I got from a brochure is

Throw ratio: 1.27 - 2.73 (for 16x9)
Powered lens shift: +/- 80% of vertical ht, +/- 30% horizontal width
Air intake is around slots surrounding the lens, exhaust is out the rear
2000 lumens (undoubtedly in high lamp), 1M:1 CR (with DI, and undoubtedly in low lamp)

That's about all the hard data I've found.

FWIW I went back and looked at cine4home's measurements for the Sony 90ES, which is spec'ed at 1000 lumens and 150K:1 CR (with DI):

He got a max of 880 lumens, with calibrated colors, and presumably in high lamp. If this same ratio applied to the 1000ES, one would have 1760 lumens with calibrated colors, high lamp. And if one looses the typical 30% in going to low lamp, this would give 1230 lumens, calibrated in low lamp.

He measured a max of 20K:1 CR native, and 80K:1 with DI. If this ratio applied to the 1000ES, it would mean 130K:1 native and 530K:1 with DI.

All above pure speculation, but that's all we can do at present!
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post #222 of 4370
9/17/11 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

At CEDIA I used a 8.5x11 sheet of paper to get a rough measure of the dimensions of the BASE, which is relevant to whether or not it will fit on the stand that I have behind our 2 recliners (it will, just!). This is 15"W and 18.5"D. The full cabinet is obviously larger.

The only other data I got from a brochure is

Throw ratio: 1.27 - 2.73 (for 16x9)
Powered lens shift: +/- 80% of vertical ht, +/- 30% horizontal width
Air intake is around slots surrounding the lens, exhaust is out the rear
2000 lumens (undoubtedly in high lamp), 1M:1 CR (with DI, and undoubtedly in low lamp)

That's about all the hard data I've found.

FWIW I went back and looked at cine4home's measurements for the Sony 90ES, which is spec'ed at 1000 lumens and 150K:1 CR (with DI):

He got a max of 880 lumens, with calibrated colors, and presumably in high lamp. If this same ratio applied to the 1000ES, one would have 1760 lumens with calibrated colors, high lamp. And if one looses the typical 30% in going to low lamp, this would give 1230 lumens, calibrated in low lamp.

He measured a max of 20K:1 CR native, and 80K:1 with DI. If this ratio applied to the 1000ES, it would mean 130K:1 native and 530K:1 with DI.

All above pure speculation, but that's all we can do at present!

Thanks!

It's this or the JVC RE65/X90........let's see what the reputable reviews say.
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post #223 of 4370
9/17/11 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Thanks!

It's this or the JVC RE65/X90........let's see what the reputable reviews say.

I think there's little doubt that the 1000ES will be better; the real question will it be 2 to 3x better! (though we know that one always pay a premium for that last increment of quality)
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post #224 of 4370
9/17/11 at 6:33pm
For me the question is will it be better than similarly priced 3 chip DLPs for 2D. Going by the numbers it should be better. Going by some of the reports from people who saw it makes me think it won't be as good.
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post #225 of 4370
9/17/11 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

For me the question is will it be better than similarly priced 3 chip DLPs for 2D. Going by the numbers it should be better. Going by some of the reports from people who saw it makes me think it won't be as good.

This is indeed the question! The demo at CEIDA would certainly not convince one that the 1000ES will be better, but several people have discussed why it was not so good. We'll just have to see when the final product is ready. One would hope that Sony would have the finished product ready by the CES in Jan, but the last time or two I was at CES (but haven't been for several yrs) Sony did not demo any projectors.
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post #226 of 4370
9/17/11 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I think there's little doubt that the 1000ES will be better; the real question will it be 2 to 3x better! (though we know that one always pay a premium for that last increment of quality)

True! with 4k sources no doubt.....but with 1080p will it be worth the 2x premium....few more months and all will be revealed.

Would be good to see if the max open iris opening can be limited for those who do not need so much brightness.

EDIT: Read on the new scaling method......should be very interesting.....and the 2000lumen light output will be nice for 3d even with a 85% drop.
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post #227 of 4370
9/18/11 at 12:23am
Quote:


I think there's little doubt that the 1000ES will be better; the real question will it be 2 to 3x better! (though we know that one always pay a premium for that last increment of quality)

Unfortunately 3 times the cost doesnt get you 3 times the quality
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post #228 of 4370
9/18/11 at 4:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

True! with 4k sources no doubt.....but with 1080p will it be worth the 2x premium....few more months and all will be revealed.

Would be good to see if the max open iris opening can be limited for those who do not need so much brightness.

EDIT: Read on the new scaling method......should be very interesting.....and the 2000lumen light output will be nice for 3d even with a 85% drop.

This question was asked at the show and the technician made it sound like the iris worked in a dynamic mode only, no manual positions. I would wait to see what reviews or first hand users say though.
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post #229 of 4370
9/18/11 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

Unfortunately 3 times the cost doesnt get you 3 times the quality

When it comes to PQ that is true sort of. An intetesting question would be where are we re pergfection. Could you take the 85 and assign it a PQ value against perfection and determine the maximum multiplier. Say a picture could only get 2.7 times better to reach perfection? Then again screen size and seating distance would enter into it, make the screen large enough and the PQ lumens wise could really suck no matter unless you used a HP screen (sorry, lost it there for a moment). Clearly, components of any projector could be increased quality wise by an almost unlimited factor. The average lens in say a projector in the $6 to $8K MSRP class could be tremendously increased in quality. Likewise power supplies, thermal cooling design, noise insulation, processing quality lots of things.


There is item quality and what the item gives you quality wise.
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post #230 of 4370
9/18/11 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

True! with 4k sources no doubt.....but with 1080p will it be worth the 2x premium....few more months and all will be revealed.

Would be good to see if the max open iris opening can be limited for those who do not need so much brightness.

EDIT: Read on the new scaling method......should be very interesting.....and the 2000lumen light output will be nice for 3d even with a 85% drop.

I view it like any other projector. It is calibrated lumens that you pay for as you go up the food chain.
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post #231 of 4370
9/18/11 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
This question was asked at the show and the technician made it sound like the iris worked in a dynamic mode only, no manual positions. I would wait to see what reviews or first hand users say though.

Well, I am trying to get Bill to bring his up to Seattle for a meet. Are you or Darin up for it?
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post #232 of 4370
9/18/11 at 11:10am
Hell, I'd fly to Settle to spend some quality time with this machine!
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post #233 of 4370
9/18/11 at 11:11am
You probably wouldn't have to. How far is Berkley from Silicon Valley?
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post #234 of 4370
9/18/11 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo
You probably wouldn't have to. How far is Berkley from Silicon Valley?
Oh, not far act all! Is that where he'd be coming from?
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post #235 of 4370
9/18/11 at 11:28am
BTW Who is Bill?
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post #236 of 4370
9/18/11 at 11:40am
I don't know. Some guy I met at the show.
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post #237 of 4370
9/18/11 at 12:58pm
Hey, you guys are getting a bit ahead of things! Let's see some more info about the 1000ES; after all, the demo we saw at CEDIA was actually not very impressive (but we have hope for it).
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post #238 of 4370
9/18/11 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Well, I am trying to get Bill to bring his up to Seattle for a meet. Are you or Darin up for it?
That could potentially be a nice meet. Possibly a RS45, RS55 and VW1000. Would you use Steve's theater?
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post #239 of 4370
9/18/11 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
Hey, you guys are getting a bit ahead of things! Let's see some more info about the 1000ES; after all, the demo we saw at CEDIA was actually not very impressive (but we have hope for it).
Hi Bill.
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post #240 of 4370
9/18/11 at 1:29pm
You guys are obviscating. If Professor Miller gets one, it won't be until sometime first quarter. We (AVS) are getting one of the show prototypes for a few days. If Alan is getting it, I will be there. Even if he doesn't invite me, I will get a search warrant to search for an err hot projector. Though because Alan has all those great projectrs I may need an expert or two to positively identify it and test it to be sure its the real thing.no
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