Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 75

Originally Posted by mookie b

I feel bad for people that read that review and decide this projector isn't good for 3d so cross it off their list. I have a 112" 1.4 gain screen at a throw of 15 feet and I would say the 3d is excellent.

Originally Posted by calv1n

Zombie,

I just got mine set up and watched a bit of 3D with a few others as we were comparing HDMI cables. I found it to be brighter then any 3D I've ever seen in a theater. I don't have my light meter right now but when Scopeguy brings it back during our meet next month I'll do some reading on the bulb at what ever hour/s it has on it at that time in both 2D and 3D. No Ghosting detected by any of the 4 of us on any of the scenes we used.

Also I have zero issues on the the PJ so far that I can see. I'll have Michael over for ISF calibration / certification next month so he'll confirm the unit is 100% at that time but for the quick tests I've done with the installers the unit is flawless. I have a few pics up in my thread.

Set up is "cave" with 138" 16:9 AT SMX (gain 1.0 to 1.1 ish). Projector is mounted at 16' back from screen and has very little in the way of "tweaking" such as lens shift etc.. it's just a couple of clicks on keystone and that is about it. Settings are cinema 1 out of the box and high lamp was only used for 3D.

Cheers
Calvin

Originally Posted by joerod

Agreed. I haven't yet thought "wish this was brighter" when watching 3D... I am glad I no longer waste money on magazine subscriptions...

Originally Posted by zombie10k

acceptable brightness in 3D is one the most controversial forum topics since 3D projectors came out.

A number of owners have called out the HT review, but given how subjective this is, I was hoping we would have seen some other folks measure the lumen output in 3D and also through the glasses.

The author of the article states he measured the 1000 alongside the 95 and X70 (through the glasses) and the results are understandably hard to believe given how bright it is in 2D mode. Is something else going on with the shutter timing to reduce ghosting which might explain his low # ft-L through the glasses?

Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4

Zombie. You need to see this thing. It would be the best damn thing that ever lit your large HP screen. Call me if you want me to bring it down this weekend.

Originally Posted by joerod

Agreed. I haven't yet thought "wish this was brighter" when watching 3D... I am glad I no longer waste money on magazine subscriptions...

Originally Posted by OzHDHT


+1 Joe. I was frankly incredibly stoked as well with the 3D of it after swapping over from the 95. I will be happy with this 3D performance for quite some time to come. I doubt even my next minor move to the next size screen at 123" diag will reduce my enjoyment.

My only grip is just when I feel like I'm pretty much in 3D bliss, there's no new 3D blurays around to enjoy and we don't have all those directv 3D channels to fall back to either!

Originally Posted by JustMike

Since I have yet to find a 95 in the wild, can you comment a bit on how the 3D compares between the two? I've seen a 1000, but nobody has the 95! I would expect the 1000 to be brighter, but I'm wondering about ghosting, motion, etc. General impressions of 2D picture quality would be great too. Thanks so much!

Originally Posted by hifiaudio2

I also did a few 3d observations and what I found surprised me. These tests were done with just my CA813 light meter in fc mode at the screen facing the projector. The screen is 133" diag 16:9 and the projector is at about a 23.5 ft throw. The projector was in my normal watching settings, which is reference, "normal" aspect, d65, rec709, gamma 2.4, film mode ON (decreases FC by about 5), contrast at 88 or 89, and auto IRIS limited (i think).

In 2d, with a 100 IRE field: 19FC
WIth 2d-3d mode engaged on Sony with NO glasses.... 8.9 FC
When placing the Sony glasses in front of the meter.... 1.5 FC

So maybe I had a misunderstanding of 3d modes, but I thought most 3d modes went UP in lumen output when engaged, and then back down of course with the glasses on. On this projector, simply engaging 3d mode kills half the brightness, bringing it in line with most of its cheaper competition.

Originally Posted by calv1n

Does anyone know if all the glasses are the same in this regard ? (optoma and monster are the other 2 brands I think?)

Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4

Spent an interesting hour with a Sony engineer running some more tests on my unit which exhibits banding. Unfortunately, under my NDA I can't say much but things are happening. So please no questions, none. It looks like some of the issues will be fixed by software revisions. Shut up. No questions re how, where, or what. And I believe a cause for the white band has been isolated and a possible cause for the color banding related to possible jaring and tiny tiny movement of an optical part as a result of shipping. This would explain why not all units exhibit the color banding. I believe but am not sure that all exhibit the minor white band. Also I have a fix that will work for eliminating the color banding by adjustment in the service menu but to do so that way would be very very very labor intensive requiring many many calibration measurements and point or tiny zone fixes. Simply impracticable but doable. Could be automated with the right camera and automation but would require mucho mucho measurements and adjustments. Better to adjust the mechanical part if that is really the cause which would unlikely I think be field doable. But relax in Candy land. Sony is working on the issues and approaching solutions. They have the best warranty in the business as far as I am concerned. And remember, this banding is for the most part not visable when viewing content and at least for me has not detracted from my enjoyment of the unit. Fixes will be isolated. Please no questions or speculation here. I am very impressed with what Sony is doing here. No blind eye. No denial. No what problem. Like their original motto. Sony. No baloney

Originally Posted by OzHDHT

+1 Joe. I was frankly incredibly stoked as well with the 3D of it after swapping over from the 95. I will be happy with this 3D performance for quite some time to come. I doubt even my next minor move to the next size screen at 123" diag will reduce my enjoyment.

My only grip is just when I feel like I'm pretty much in 3D bliss, there's no new 3D blurays around to enjoy and we don't have all those directv 3D channels to fall back to either!

Originally Posted by d.j.

OzHDHT

Would you say that the 1000ES is brighter or less bright then the 95ES in 3D ?
And how about the ghosting in relation to the 95ES ?

dj

Originally Posted by BrianMundt

I'd be curious to know this as well.

Originally Posted by adidino


They are exactly the same glasses. I have both.

Originally Posted by OzHDHT

I'm pretty sure I've given my comparison views in my initial testing time with 3D on the VW1000, it would be lost somewhere amongst this thread though. My experiences on the 110" diag 16:9 ST130 echo both Joerod's and Thomas J Norton's review findings with 3D- particularly with Joe also moving from the 95 to 1000. There is a quantum leap between the 2 units starting with brightness. For the money, the 95 is very capable in quality terms with 3D, and leaves it's predecessor for dead in ghosting and brightness. However, the VW1000 was for my experience, a jump straight up into cinema grade 3D PQ. Another level of clarity and depth is achieved with the VW1000 on top of the extra lumens. I struggled with the 95 to bring out ghosting, except for PS3 3D gaming, that was it's biggest 3D 'Achilles heal'. With the 95 it was well within a level where it was quite hard to detect with BD 3D. With the VW1000, everything I've run through on it in 3D so far, including the gaming torture test, I've not seen any signs of ghosting. I have one legendarily bad disc, which I think everyone here regards as the 'benchmark' for bad Blu Ray 3D ghosting, Imax Grand Canyon, that I haven't tried yet. I'm going to give it a shot in the next few days and see how it looks on the 1000. If there's anything to note from that disc, I'll def post on it.

Originally Posted by OzHDHT

With the VW1000, everything I've run through on it in 3D so far, including the gaming torture test, I've not seen any signs of ghosting. I have one legendarily bad disc, which I think everyone here regards as the 'benchmark' for bad Blu Ray 3D ghosting, Imax Grand Canyon, that I haven't tried yet. I'm going to give it a shot in the next few days and see how it looks on the 1000. If there's anything to note from that disc, I'll def post on it.

Originally Posted by hifiaudio2

So maybe I had a misunderstanding of 3d modes, but I thought most 3d modes went UP in lumen output when engaged, and then back down of course with the glasses on. On this projector, simply engaging 3d mode kills half the brightness, bringing it in line with most of its cheaper competition.

Originally Posted by zombie10k




Can any other owners validate hifiaudio2's findings? You shouldn't need a light meter to see a 50% drop going from 2D to 3D mode.

Originally Posted by hifiaudio2

Just to be clear, that was with 2d-3d mode engaged. You said above that the review indicated there was no difference between that and normal sourced true 3d, but just thought I would note that.

I wonder if this could be a bug that Sony could fix with firmware? Do ANY other projectors LOSE brightness when turning on the 3d mode?

Originally Posted by hifiaudio2

I also did a few 3d observations and what I found surprised me. These tests were done with just my CA813 light meter in fc mode at the screen facing the projector. The screen is 133" diag 16:9 and the projector is at about a 23.5 ft throw. The projector was in my normal watching settings, which is reference, "normal" aspect, d65, rec709, gamma 2.4, film mode ON (decreases FC by about 5), contrast at 88 or 89, and auto IRIS limited (i think).

In 2d, with a 100 IRE field: 19FC
WIth 2d-3d mode engaged on Sony with NO glasses.... 8.9 FC
When placing the Sony glasses in front of the meter.... 1.5 FC

So maybe I had a misunderstanding of 3d modes, but I thought most 3d modes went UP in lumen output when engaged, and then back down of course with the glasses on. On this projector, simply engaging 3d mode kills half the brightness, bringing it in line with most of its cheaper competition.

Also the 3d grayscale was way off, with the middle IREs having a strong push toward green (glasses on and off) - VERY visible. And on the spears &munsil clipping patterns, green, red, and blue were getting clipped badly unless contrast was turned all the way down to the mid 60s! I will test this more tonight or tomorrow.

Originally Posted by zombie10k

Hi, can you change the CA813 to the LUX setting instead? Your screen is 4.86 Sq Meters, so to calculate lumens, just multiply the LUX read x 4.86.

If we convert FC to LUX (please verify this with the meter)

19FC = 204.5 LUX x 4.86 Sq Meters = 993 lumens
8.9FC = 95.8 LUX x 4.86 Sq meters = 465 Lumens
1.5FC = 16 LUX x 4.86 Sq Meters = 77 lumens (through the glasses)

The author of the HT review stated that his results were the same with 2D-3D vs. a true 3D signal.

your throw is quite a distance which would explain the 2D #'s. My projectors are closer to my 142" HP, ~ 17 Feet. I'll have to check it out when Mark visits with his VW1000.

Is there a specific 3D setting that increases the light output? it does seem odd that it would be 1/2 in the 3D mode. Some of the models i've tested all keep at least the same light output in 3D mode, or higher like the Epson 5010.

Thanks for posting the info.

Originally Posted by Ron Jones

In 3D mode Sony projectors insert black frames between actual video frames to allow for the LCOS display chips to transition from one image to the next image (i.e., for the other eye). This is needed to keep 3D crosstalk/ghosting to acceptable levels. Thus in 3D you are running a much lower duty cycle and the average brightness (i.e., averaged over multiple frames) will be lower than in 2D mode even if each individual actual video frame (i.e., not counting black/transition frames) that is displayed is the same, or even a little brighter, than individual frames in 2D mode. The FC/LUX you measured is consistent with this.