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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 89

post #2641 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

I've found your posts regarding screens to be the among the most reasonable and balanced I've read, but I slightly disagree with you on this point.

The degree to which the Firehawk hotspots is affected by many variables, such as throw ratio, seating distance, seating angle, projector height, projection angle, etc...(lumens?). When I purchased my Firehawk screen, I expected it to hotspot. The only question was how much, and whether or not it was worth the trade-off. I was pleasantly surprised to see no hot spotting in normal viewing. I've been looking for it. In movie after movie, I've been trying to detect it. Just a bit here or there. Maybe in a blue sky, a green field, a desert.... Can't see it. I strongly disagree that it's "very easy to see". I'm looking for it, and cannot find it. Maybe in another application- different distances, angles, lumens, etc....

As I've said, put up a 100% white screen and look for any lack of uniformity and you will find it. But, under normal viewing conditions, in the correct application, you will not. (At least I don't) The ISF had no problem with it. The proper application is critical. I have no doubt people might see hotspotting in some situations. Stewart was very specific regarding my seating distances, angles, etc....

No question it's not the right screen surface for everyone. What bothers me is the blanket statement that it hot spots. "Focuses" might perhaps be a better term. "Hot spotting" scares some people off. People for whom this would be the best choice.

I understand the "no free lunch principle". Certainly there are trade-offs. Any screen with gain/optical coating creates a compromise. To say that this screen always hotspots would be just as incorrect as saying it never hotspots. There are "costs" to this screen.

Have you ever seen a Firehawk with a long throw ratio, proper seating angles and distances, and a high output projector like the Sony 1000?



I completely agree. When I posted a similar comment awhile back I got the usual "well, you may not be able to see, but it's there" (huh??? If I can't see it, then it ISN'T there in any way that matters.) I know what it looks like, seen it in several other setups. A few other hotspot "experts" have looked for it in my old setup and couldn't find it either. One did try really hard, entered a trance like state (I thought I heard some chanting), moved around the room, and finally acknowledged I was "lucky." We'll I've been lucky in my last three setups, with three different FH screens. Go Irish!

I know it does exist, and may even be visible in many/most FH setups, but to state it applies to all FH setups is a misstatement, IMO

Jim
post #2642 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

How much does it cost them to shoot newer movies like Avengers and Battleship? We don't see them charging 100.00 for it on release day. You can call us "cheap" all you want but just because we onw a 4K projector doen't mean we have to give into extortion. When Blu ray 4K hits those little "vids" will be sold for a song.

Going first shouldn't mean getting screwed the rest of the way... Just saying...

Instead of swinging for the fences they should consider rounding the bases... I have received about a dozen messages from other owners who agree with me.

Big difference though. Battleship and such draws the masses. They don't need to charge $100 to cover costs because they make up for it in massive amounts of viewers. Those that are willing to download a 4k content are a very small number (most don't even know, or care, what that is). I agree $100 is sort of a lot for a movie, but then for what it is there are no real alternatives either.
post #2643 of 9687
Personally, if I end up buying the 1000, I'd definitely pay $100 for a copy of Timescapes in 4K. My problem is that I don't have anything that can play it, and I'm not going to configure an HTPC just for the one movie. The 4K version of the movie is clearly an enthusiast's product (and for dealers who want a spectacular 4K demo, probably).

Since I can't play the 4K at this point, I ordered the Blu-ray.
post #2644 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

I've found your posts regarding screens to be the among the most reasonable and balanced I've read, but I slightly disagree with you on this point.

Fair enough. No problem.

It sounds like you are quite aware of all these issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

Have you ever seen a Firehawk with a long throw ratio, proper seating angles and distances, and a high output projector like the Sony 1000?

Yes. I've seen the Firehawk with all types of projectors (e.g. from LCOS/LCD/DLP including high end SIM DLPs) under every type of throw
situation, very long throws included. It was a top contender screen for me, so I investigated it heavily, and it seemed to be the most popular screen for AV installs at least in my city (until Screen Innovations started to steal a bit of it's thunder with the Black Diamond screens). I've investigated how it looks from every angle and distance I can (sitting close, sitting central, moving back toward the projector far from the screen, standing...you name it...on many set ups).

I'm always told "it doesn't hot spot when you set it up right" but it hot spots obviously to me every single time.

Even today at lunchtime I stopped by a local high end AV store. It has the JVC RS55 projector (the one I own) shooting from 20 feet on to a screen I'd say is about 110" diagonal. It was playing AVATAR. Since they change the screen fairly often in that room I wondered if it were a white screen or a Firehawk. I didn't even have to ask first or look for the name - I immediately recognized the hotspotting as being a Firehawk, especially if I moved from the very center of the image more to one side, the hotspotting followed me so the side of the screen closest to me was brighter than the side further. It didn't matter if I were close to the screen or way back at the projector - same hotspotting effect. (I confirmed with a salesman it was a Firehawk). They have had various sizes of Firehawk on that wall, from 96" diag 16:9 to 118" wide scope, and all hotspotted. (I took a picture of this at one point since some people were like "what are you talking about? I don't see hotspotting on my firehawk?"). I feel pretty confident that if you and I were looking at the same screen I could point out the hotspotting. (But that could be cruel, given our obsessive nature on this forum ). I'm not sure what magical combination some people think they have with this screen that avoids physics ("it may hotspot in lots of set ups, but not mine" type comments).

Anyway, the Firehawk is a terrific screen. Everything has it's compromises. My ST-130 screen material, being .3 gain ,hotspots, though subtle enough I can ignore it. It also has occasional visible sparklies - though not nearly as much as gray screens with gain, but enough that I fantasize about the ST100 material...which of course brings in it's own issues to get it to work right.

I can't wait to see a Sony VW1000 in action.

Cheers,
post #2645 of 9687
What do you all set the reality creation settings at for tv and blu rays?I haven't messed around with it yet.
post #2646 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 3 View Post

Big difference though. Battleship and such draws the masses. They don't need to charge $100 to cover costs because they make up for it in massive amounts of viewers. Those that are willing to download a 4k content are a very small number (most don't even know, or care, what that is). I agree $100 is sort of a lot for a movie, but then for what it is there are no real alternatives either.

I actually didn't think if dealers wanting this for demo material. Fine charge them a 100.

I still think they are making a mistake. Imagine if it was 50.00 and most of us jumped in. How many more sales could they get with us showing it off? Both 4K and 1080p? Sure I could afford the 100 but I don't want to pay it. And let's be honest I usually get most things.

A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing.
post #2647 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

I got a Stewart Firehawk with micro-perf and side masking for CIH. It's a 2.40 screen, 122.5" wide, 51" tall. Mark installed it and did a great job! Main seating is about 12-13 feet, but people have been sitting a lot closer. The micro-perf is so small, you have to be really close to see it during viewing. I was surprised. We had a pile of teenagers watching from 6 feet away with no problem! With a long throw (and a bright projector), there is no visible hot spotting with the Firehawk material. This was a relief for sure! When I say no visible hot spotting, i mean none whatsoever! I've been looking for it in movie after movie, and I cannot detect any. If I put up a full white test screen, one can see a very very slight difference across the screen, but during normal viewing it's simply not an issue at all! The right application is key. I'm getting a very watchable image with some light in the room- enough to read in the back. It's a great material for my non-dedicated room. When I darken the room, the image is stunning. I will say I have been using high-lamp more than I thought I would. I'm just getting a lot more vibrancy and pop with the lamp on high. I don't know if the Firehawk needs more lumens to really have those rich, deep colors. I'm going to continue to tweak and adjust. Maybe I can get that same richness on low lamp with the right settings.

Thanks DigsMovies for all the good info

And that is a very impressive screen you got there - isnt it a grey 1.3 gain screen AFAIR !? ( in reality a little less because off the micro-perf - about - 10% right ? ) and yes, I think the grey screens needs a little more light to really "shine".

Have you meassured the fL of the screen ?

dj
post #2648 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I actually didn't think if dealers wanting this for demo material. Fine charge them a 100.

I still think they are making a mistake. Imagine if it was 50.00 and most of us jumped in. How many more sales could they get with us showing it off? Both 4K and 1080p? Sure I could afford the 100 but I don't want to pay it. And let's be honest I usually get most things.

A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing.

I'm okay with the price. If I had a PC capable of outputting 4K over HDMI (I'm a Mac guy myself, so I'll probably be waiting a long time for that!), I'd spring for the purchase.

Don't forget, they're not burning this onto a $1 Blu-Ray disc. They're spending about $20 right off the top on the flash drive. And, you have to figure in workflow time, as it probably is a "special order" delivery method. I also think you're paying a premium for the first reference-quality 4K content.

Plus, we still don't know what 4K Blu-Ray will cost. We may very well see new-release content in the $45 region or higher, just like we did when Blu-Ray came out. There's just no standard now with which to judge the pricing, so I'm fine with it. Just imagine how great that'd look on the 1000!
post #2649 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

$100 for the 4k version to download? Seems silly...

Quote:
4K Edition
$99.95
4096 x 2304, 31Gb file, USB stick
4K Cineform
$299.95
4096 x 2304, 140Gb, 12-bit, hard drive

Boy - the differnces in these is huge. Other than the fact that one is on a stick and the other on a HD, wonder why? You 1000ES guys ought to each pitch in a little and by this - you can then pass it around so that everyone can see it.
post #2650 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

Boy - the differnces in these is huge.

Wow! 4K 12-bit, that's a DCI format if I'm not mistaken? Is the new projector capable of calibrating to DCI standards? http://www.dcimovies.com/DCIDigitalC...emSpecv1_2.pdf
post #2651 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

Boy - the differnces in these is huge. Other than the fact that one is on a stick and the other on a HD, wonder why? You 1000ES guys ought to each pitch in a little and by this - you can then pass it around so that everyone can see it.

Not a bad idea. The 299 version!
post #2652 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Wow! 4K 12-bit, that's a DCI format if I'm not mistaken? Is the new projector capable of calibrating to DCI standards? http://www.dcimovies.com/DCIDigitalC...emSpecv1_2.pdf

Yes. One can calibrate it for a DCI color space but the machine cannot handle a 12 bit input. The machine is not DCI compliant.
post #2653 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Thanks DigsMovies for all the good info

And that is a very impressive screen you got there - isnt it a grey 1.3 gain screen AFAIR !? ( in reality a little less because off the micro-perf - about - 10% right ? ) and yes, I think the grey screens needs a little more light to really "shine".

Have you meassured the fL of the screen ?

dj

Wish I knew the fL. I would love to know. I've no way of measuring it yet, but I will probably get some calibration/measuring tools.
When I first heard the cost of the Stewart with micro-perf and masking, I was . Luckily we were able to make it happen. I really wanted a high level of performance, and for a non-dedicated room that meant the right screen and a bright projector. It's a great set-up. The Sony throws a great 2.40 image with no A-lens!
post #2654 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post


I actually didn't think if dealers wanting this for demo material. Fine charge them a 100.

I still think they are making a mistake. Imagine if it was 50.00 and most of us jumped in. How many more sales could they get with us showing it off? Both 4K and 1080p? Sure I could afford the 100 but I don't want to pay it. And let's be honest I usually get most things.

A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing.

Agreed. It is always a matter of finding that point where you lower the price enough to make it up in volume... Obviously in their mind $100 was that point... Though not sure if I agree.
post #2655 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

What do you all set the reality creation settings at for tv and blu rays?I haven't messed around with it yet.

I'd like to see others thoughts on this....or at least a recommended pattern to test them on???
post #2656 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

Anybody know what graphics card is the best for 4k material on the VW1000?

As far as I can tell the only current ones able to do it (via HDMI) are the Radeon 7950 and 7970

But, from what I gather thus far, the HDMI standard is only rated for 24fps @ 4k.... so you may have trouble if you try to run at higher refresh rates. Furthermore, this may be one of the few times when HDMI cable make matters.
post #2657 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by calv1n View Post

Does anyone have a PC build that is running 4k smoothly? If so can you post the build (components software etc..?) I'd like to build one for 4k output to Sony but would like to make sure I have the proper card and hardware to run it smoothly.

Thanks Fugueness for the post and the links. I'd certainly be interested in ordering these 4k films.

Thanks
Calvin


I may be taking on this challenge. If I do I will certainly post parts lists and build logs.
post #2658 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKaram View Post

I may be taking on this challenge. If I do I will certainly post parts lists and build logs.

Thanks MKaram, I have a preliminary list of my "build" on my thread right now. I'm hoping to finalize the components and put it together in the next 7-10 days! If you get a chance check the link in my sig and leave me some thoughts on what I have thrown together so far!

Thanks
Calvin
post #2659 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by calv1n View Post

Thanks MKaram, I have a preliminary list of my "build" on my thread right now. I'm hoping to finalize the components and put it together in the next 7-10 days! If you get a chance check the link in my sig and leave me some thoughts on what I have thrown together so far!

Thanks
Calvin

Done and done.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1198
post #2660 of 9687
Are none of you changing the Reality Creation setting and noise filter from factory defaults?
post #2661 of 9687
Here you can find jaw-dropping 4K samples: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155857&page=2
post #2662 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Are none of you changing the Reality Creation setting and noise filter from factory defaults?

I have mine set for each pic mode. The biggest difference is Bright TV (sports) versus Film 1 and 2 (Blu ray 2D and 3D)...
post #2663 of 9687
Hi Guys, my first time posting here since i got my HW30AES. Anyhow - i just sold it and bought the VW1000, which is due to arrive on Tuesday. I have a home made ceiling mount which has worked really well for the 30, but i'm remaking it now to be a lot stronger 'cos of the extra weight. I'm probably over engineering it by 10x I need to know if the mounting holes are the same as the HW30 (which did match the VW50 which i had previously).

I found the a diagram showing the mounting holes for the VW1000, but i don't see those measurements on the docs for the HW30, which is what i need to determine if they're the same.

Thanks!
post #2664 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdogg View Post

Hi Guys, my first time posting here since i got my HW30AES. Anyhow - i just sold it and bought the VW1000, which is due to arrive on Tuesday. I have a home made ceiling mount which has worked really well for the 30, but i'm remaking it now to be a lot stronger 'cos of the extra weight. I'm probably over engineering it by 10x I need to know if the mounting holes are the same as the HW30 (which did match the VW50 which i had previously).

I found the a diagram showing the mounting holes for the VW1000, but i don't see those measurements on the docs for the HW30, which is what i need to determine if they're the same.

Thanks!

FWIW, It looks like Chief uses the same specific plate for both units.

Check under compatibility:

http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/RPMA020

Over engineering is probably a good thing- There's no kill like overkill !!
post #2665 of 9687
I have some of the earliest experience with HTPC and the VW1000, being a long time HTPC user and early VW1000 owner. I purchased a 7950 for use with my old C2D based rig to start with a couple of weeks after installing the VW1000. Unfortunately, it seemed processing power was the Achilles heal in that config. It stuttered quite noticeably with 4K clips, such as the Youtube ones. So I did run an interim rig with a fairly box standard HP with i5 3.0 and added the 7950. In a few tests I did with clips, it played comparatively smoothly. My only issue still for full presentation is the need to direct connect to the VW1000 and at the same time extract digital audio via most like coax. In my latest rig, soon as I can get it running as its got a prob somewhere preventing it posting properly, I should have a pretty powerful setup. I've bought a Shuttle barebones XPC-SX79, thats runs the Sandy Bridge-E spec. Soon as this new rig is running properly, I'll post my impressions. I've also taken the plunge and ordered the USB of TimesScapes and will post soon as I can about how that looks. The other piece of hardware I think I'll add in order to assist 4K playback in the HTPC is a SSD, purely for media storage and playback. That should eliminate any remaining bottlenecks in the base system itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdogg View Post

Hi Guys, my first time posting here since i got my HW30AES. Anyhow - i just sold it and bought the VW1000, which is due to arrive on Tuesday. I have a home made ceiling mount which has worked really well for the 30, but i'm remaking it now to be a lot stronger 'cos of the extra weight. I'm probably over engineering it by 10x I need to know if the mounting holes are the same as the HW30 (which did match the VW50 which i had previously).

I found the a diagram showing the mounting holes for the VW1000, but i don't see those measurements on the docs for the HW30, which is what i need to determine if they're the same.

Thanks!

I've been able to use the same Chief mount system with the 1000, that I've owned since my VW70. Works perfectly, no hassles with at all.
post #2666 of 9687
I've used the same Chief rpau mount for all my Sonys an JVCs. As wll as other brands. No worries.
post #2667 of 9687


I am happy to report the new Onkyos seem to do 4K upscaling better than last year's units. At least we have progress. Good job goes to the Marvell Qdeo team!
LL
post #2668 of 9687
Are any of you having to shift the panel alingment more than a few clicks? My red was really off and am wondering what effects such a shift will have on the overall PQ. The entire screen is pretty much dead on across all the zones now but had to shift red like 12 clicks.
post #2669 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Are any of you having to shift the panel alingment more than a few clicks? My red was really off and am wondering what effects such a shift will have on the overall PQ. The entire screen is pretty much dead on across all the zones now but had to shift red like 12 clicks.

12 clicks sounds like a lot. You basing this on the panel grid pattern in the service menu? If you now have everything aligned I would think you should be fine.
post #2670 of 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

12 clicks sounds like a lot. You basing this on the panel grid pattern in the service menu? If you now have everything aligned I would think you should be fine.

Yeah. The service menu patterns. Blue was almost perfect but red was off pretty bad. Once I shifted it in the regular pattern I switched to the zones and only had to change a few places on the red and none with the blue.
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