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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 101

post #3001 of 4372
8/31/12 at 6:36pm

I was playing with 'settings' a while tonight, and realized that I'm very unsure what 'Smooth Gradation' is supposed to do.    Frankly, I can't tell much different with any of the settings, from off, to low, to high.   

 

Any recommendations?

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post #3002 of 4372
8/31/12 at 8:15pm
I promise you're not the only one MillerWill. I cant tell a difference on quite a few of the settings.

Heres a def:
X-Reality™ PRO system maximizes gradation, by extending conventional 8-bit video to 14 bits. Because consumer televisions cannot handle this 14-bit signal directly, Sony applies Super Bit Mapping™ for Video (SBM-V) technology. Advanced digital error diffusion breaks up the solid bands of color, effectively smoothing out the gradation. The result is nearly the equivalent of 14-bit gradation in an 8-bit output signal. The television delivers amazingly graceful reproduction of faces, sunsets and other areas of subtle color gradation.


One that I am surprised that many crank up is the Reality Creation. I cant turn it up much past default without adding artifacts to the image on most material.
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post #3003 of 4372
9/1/12 at 2:51am
I have never been able to discern any difference in my PQ from the smooth degradation control,


Likewise I find that I see a sight improvement with RC turned on but with the resoltion or detail axis control on RC set to ). I am never too sure about where to leave the noise control. Usually I set it to ariound 10 or 20.. If one uses certain test patterns such as single on off vertical or horizontal pixel grids, moving the RC controls around can really screw things up. I am kinda brain washed from those who see a big improvement from it such as Joerod. So I leave it on at minimum. To me it makes the picture slightly better.
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post #3004 of 4372
9/1/12 at 3:46am
I put on a Gradation pattern from AVS HD disc. By changing the Smooth Gradation setting, you'll see the difference. Noticeably, the gradation gets smoother.
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post #3005 of 4372
9/1/12 at 9:07am
No doubt. But when viewing normal content vs that test pattern, I just don't see any real improvement on or off, let along with various levels of on. I suyppose since it makes the most improvement with it set to high with respect to that test pattern but doesn't to me to have much affect on content, one could leave it to high. It doesn't seem to hurt anything but Sony obvious gives a choice for some reason so there must be some negative artifact with it on that increases with the level. Frankly, I have other things to stress about. smile.gif
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post #3006 of 4372
9/1/12 at 9:27am
From my experiment, I noticed that you can see more of the difference from scenes with skin tone or sunset.
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post #3007 of 4372
9/1/12 at 2:29pm

A random observation while watching the US Open:      I liked my previous projector (RS20) very much, but one thing that annoyed me was its handling of fast motion.    E.g.,  the ball on fast tennis serves was quite jerky.    I find it significantly better on the Sony 1000 (with Motion Enhancer on Low); one can really follow the ball almost without even any (smooth) blur.  

 

Of course there are other major advantages the 1000 has over the RS20 (brightness, sharpness/resolution, etc., etc.), and it surely should since the RS20 came out 3 yrs earlier (not to speak of the price diff!).

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post #3008 of 4372
9/1/12 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

A random observation while watching the US Open:      I liked my previous projector (RS20) very much, but one thing that annoyed me was its handling of fast motion.    E.g.,  the ball on fast tennis serves was quite jerky.    I find it significantly better on the Sony 1000 (with Motion Enhancer on Low); one can really follow the ball almost without even any (smooth) blur.  

Of course there are other major advantages the 1000 has over the RS20 (brightness, sharpness/resolution, etc., etc.), and it surely should since the RS20 came out 3 yrs earlier (not to speak of the price diff!).

I wonder how the JVC RS55 would handle the fast motion of a tennis ball being served assuming CMD is on? I'm thinking it would certainly be better than the RS20.
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post #3009 of 4372
9/1/12 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post


I wonder how the JVC RS55 would handle the fast motion of a tennis ball being served assuming CMD is on? I'm thinking it would certainly be better than the RS20.


I would hope so.

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post #3010 of 4372
9/1/12 at 3:54pm
My first PJ was the JVC RS1x and I thought it handled motion very very well. I wonder if some how the motion could have been worse on the RS20? I know that sounds crazy but once companies start trying to minimize the motion blur things get introduced that werent there when motion wasnt nearly as big a deal as it is now. Like I think my old Panasonic 42" 1080i plasma handles motion better than some of my newer flat panel sets(9 flat panels total). I think my panasonic was the second generation made and motion wasnt one of the focus points back then. Just curious if this could be a coincidence or implementation of technology trying to reduce it actually making it worse on the first generation sets with such technology?

With that being said, my first 1000 had motion problems and looked worse than some of my flat panels. The replacement is much better but havent put enough hours on it yet to really grade how well it handles it. As of now I would say my samsung pn64D8000 is the best but once I get the sony dialed in it could be a different story.
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post #3011 of 4372
9/1/12 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

JustMike: I'm curious-- does the Sony UI enumerate which mode of MotionFlow uses dark frame insertion? I can't find any information about it on the Sony VPL-HW30AES, even though it's listed as having BFI (black frame insertion). The Sony tech I spoked to knew nothing of it either...
Also, does BFI lower the brightness of the image?
Thanks in advance!

I'm sorry, I can't remember the name of the setting, and the projector isn't installed yet (still in construction...), so I can't look at the menu right now. But, you know the menu where you can select MotionFlow and set its level or turn it off? There's another option in that same menu. Something like "Cinema Projection" or the like. That's the one that does the dark frame insertion. It definitely produces an obvious drop in brightness. I would say that it's similar to switching from high lamp to low lamp.

Thanks to my smallish screen, I believe that I could still use this mode and have ample brightness even in low lamp, but we'll see when I can finally get things installed and calibrated!
Edited by JustMike - 9/1/12 at 5:05pm
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post #3012 of 4372
9/1/12 at 6:28pm
My Sony 1000ES saga continues thanks to Fed Ex. Sony shipped me a new VPL-vw1000ES1last Friday. I had been waiting patentiently for it to show up. As of Friday, nada. Fed Ex showed it delivered on Friday. Today a neighbor I didn't previously know living approximate 2 1/2 miles down my street called to say Fed Ex had misdelivered to him a large Sony box with my address, name, and phone number on it. Sony did it right. My street number is 22200, Fed Ex delivered it to 20200. Just left it on the guys porch. I jumped in my Miata with the top down and put it on the back window ledge.

Fired it up a little while ago. RGB out of my Lumagen and into and out of my first gen Darblet.
Panel alignment was almost perfect. Red was adjusted globally two clicks horizontal and one click vertically. Blue was spot on.

Very little banding, just the usual white just below horizontal center. It really was minimal. Like I have said before, I can get rid of it by going into the servicde menu and toggeling one setting but not recommended. Doing so will fry the bulb rather quickly I can't say any more.But the white banding has been substantially ameliorated and would only be visable very rarely when watching content.

Be very very carely playing with the RC sliders (available when RC is on. If you put up a single pixel on off grid pattern(either a horizontal one or a vertical one) you will quickly the effects of these sliders. I would recommend leaiving the RC resoltion set to minimum and the noise filtering set to 30. One click of the noise control changes everything as well as adjusting the resolution level

I will post the name for the black frame insertion control later. It is under the motion settings. I leave the motion stuff off.;
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post #3013 of 4372
9/1/12 at 9:25pm
Wow Mark. Atleast it made it to you! That could have been one expensive Fedex driver mistake had someone not so honest knew what it was.

Fedex dropped mine off in the driveway both times without signature or even a knock on the door, according to the baby sitter who I had told it should be coming.
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post #3014 of 4372
9/1/12 at 10:32pm
That's why we (AV Science) ship signature required unless waived by the customer in writing (email). In this case Sony shipped to me direct as a Sony accomodation to one who does work for them.
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post #3015 of 4372
9/2/12 at 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Wow Mark. Atleast it made it to you! That could have been one expensive Fedex driver mistake had someone not so honest knew what it was.
Fedex dropped mine off in the driveway both times without signature or even a knock on the door, according to the baby sitter who I had told it should be coming.

It's funny you should mention shipping.

Last week Wednesday, I called Sony about a replacement VW1000ES (I had some very minor annoyances on the original, and wanted to try a replacement before the 90 days expired). They asked me to fax a copy of my receipt to the warehouse, after which they'd send out the projector. So, that night (around 7 p.m.), I faxed over the copy.

The very next day, just before I went to bed, I let the dogs out in our fenced in backyard. It had started to rain lightly and I wanted to make sure they were able to go out before the weather got any worse. Out of the corner of my eye, I see a weird shape in the darkness. I got my shoes on, ventured out into the rain, only to find my projector resting on the door to the fence.

The deliveryman must have known the value of the item, opened our fence, and put it inside. However, he didn't even rest it near the back door! Instead, it was nearly 20 feet from the back door, in an alcove that can just barely be seen. I appreciate the gesture, but I was dumbfounded he didn't at least leave a note. Literally five minutes later, it started to downpour. That would have been an expensive mistake.

Thankfully, only the top cardboard was moist, and none of the water had gotten to the projector. Close call.
Edited by BrianMundt - 9/2/12 at 12:19am
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post #3016 of 4372
9/2/12 at 12:49am
That's worse than my story. Obviously my delivery guy was partially blind and probably mis read the very clear correct addres. I find most Fed Ex drivers to be very lazy. To leave it outdoors, yards from your house is rediculous. I don't find UPS drivers to be like this. Lots of time they will leave packages on my well covered stoops. Theyknow the roof is sufficiently overhung that a package couldn't get wet and our driveway is long, no one could ever see a package unless they came way up our driveway. The UPS drivers know they can enter our house if the door is left unlocked to put large packages inside if we are not home. UPS comes to my house everyday to check to see if I have anything to ship. I pay a small fee for that service. Often I receive projectors etc to test and/or calibrate and I ship at least several items every week. I notified my driver that I will be shipping nothing next week since Monday is a holiday and the rest of the week I will be at Cedia. I don't want him to waste his time stopping at my house which often is an extra 10 minutes drive for him. Often he will call me to see if I was shipping anything that day if he didn't have a delkivery for me that day. We have a good relationship and I get great service. Getting UPS to pay off on an insurance damage claim is quite another story.
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post #3017 of 4372
9/2/12 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I was playing with 'settings' a while tonight, and realized that I'm very unsure what 'Smooth Gradation' is supposed to do.    Frankly, I can't tell much different with any of the settings, from off, to low, to high.   

Any recommendations?


I think the 'Smooth Gradation' compensating for the color banding there sometimes is on some blurays ( because off the limited 8 bit color resolution on them ) - it can be seen as bands when a color toner up or down in levels.

So to see how it works/ adjust , you first have to find a scene, where you see the banding and then play with it rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif


See the bluray : "Boog and Elliot - Open season" before the start ( btw. the picture on this disc looks spectacular on the 1000ES cool.gif ) , when there is some letters on a white background and then it starts to fade down - there is a lot off banding, wich can allmost disappear, when you adjust the "Smooth Gradation"
the only downside can be ( maybe Im only imagine it redface.gif ) maybe a little "softening" of the picture with the setting on "high" !?
dj
Edited by d.j. - 9/2/12 at 2:06pm
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post #3018 of 4372
9/2/12 at 3:16pm
That may be true but what are the negative effects of the smoothing. Implicitly there must be some or it would be just be built in set to high.
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post #3019 of 4372
9/2/12 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post


I think the 'Smooth Gradation' compensating for the color banding there sometimes is on some blurays ( because off the limited 8 bit color resolution on them ) - it can be seen as bands when a color toner up or down in levels.
So to see how it works/ adjust , you first have to find a scene, where you see the banding and then play with it rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif
See the bluray : "Boog and Elliot - Open season" before the start ( btw. the picture on this disc looks spectacular on the 1000ES cool.gif ) , when there is some letters on a white background and then it starts to fade down - there is a lot off banding, wich can allmost disappear, when you adjust the "Smooth Gradation"
the only downside can be ( maybe Im only imagine it redface.gif ) maybe a little "softening" of the picture with the setting on "high" !?
dj


So if one sees no banding--which is pretty much the case with my 1000--one should just leave if 'off', I presume.

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post #3020 of 4372
9/2/12 at 3:23pm

Another setting question:   with a Darblet in the chain, should one set Sharpness to 0?    To date I've had it at 10.

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post #3021 of 4372
9/2/12 at 4:20pm
Dot on the screen above number 7 (right side) 496k .JPG file Another Lens shot 102k .JPG file Sony Manual Statement about Bright and Dark Dots 1117k .JPG file Does not show up with regular viewing like football 2562k .JPG file Inner Lens "dot" 704k .JPG file

So my weekend has been busy trying to "fix" my issue I noticed pop up the other night. I think Mookie has the same as mine. During dark scenes or black outs I get an "orb" lkie "dot" that expands or gets smaller depending on what the Iris is doing. Turning Iris to Off allows it to stay constanty but very faint. Normal viewing like football or regualr movie scenes it is undetectable. So far I have air canned the vents and then removed the Lamp and air canned that area. I have not had luck getting it to go away. I did a lot o research and from what I gather Blue, Green or Red dots would indicate the SXRD panel whereas a white or gray type dot would mean it was in the optics between the Lens and the Lamp. I never had this issue with any of the other projectors I have had. I just hit the 200 hour mark. I have read a ton on Dust Blobs and obviously this must be one unless I am missig something. I did see at the end of the Sony Manual it has a statement about dark and bright points being normal but I don't think they are talking about this. I noticed on the inner part of my lens a dot (that I can't get to of course) which I think is the source. In talks with Mookie he had two just like it and one has fallen off. At the moment I am running the 1000 in High Lamp Mode in hopes it might do the same. My only other option besides sending it to Texas (Sony) is to take it down and remove the uderside and see if I can air can the back side of the lens. Of course this kind of procedure makes me nervous since we all know how much that lens is worth. Plus warranty violation etc... If it were a simplethin to do however I would do it and save a trip. Especially with football season upon us. Not to mention my copy of Avengers coming Tuesday. eek.gif Like I said it is not very noticeable. Problem is I find myself looking for it with any dark type of scene! biggrin.gif Hopefully it just falls off in there. Wasn't this supposd to be a sealed path? Anyway, I feel like George Costanza in the episode where he was telling the Twix bar to JUMP when it got stuck in the vending machine... I should go see Sony this weekend and get their opinion. Now back to the Dot... mad.gif

*Inner Lens pic* the Dot on the inner side is towards the middle. The rest was on the outside and easily removed.
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post #3022 of 4372
9/2/12 at 5:46pm
I have just had my first weekend with the Darbee and my 1000. Thanks to Mark for getting all the way down to Oz for me, big cheers biggrin.gif. I got to run a pretty decent range of material on it on Sat night. From starting with some 720p episodes and Wilfred and Louie, which between to 2 Louie is shot much better to see the enhancement the Darbee adds. Then into watching 'Art of Flight' for about the 4th time all the way through again. This is one as I think most here agree, has superb pieces of 1080p outdoor camera work I've seen to date. I was somewhat shocked to see that yes, even it's quality was enhanced via the Darbee. I also hit up some live local NRL football, then into quite a few hours of ESPN 3D winter Xgames replays. Without a doubt this is the best ESPN 3D has ever looked and I've watched a bit of it. I then watched a half of a Penn State - Ohio college football game in 3D and that shone as well. None of my guested wanted to leave till the wee hours of Sunday morning! Last night I watched my team play their final game of season Live on HD satellite and again despite an already nice HDTV image, the Darbee managed to squeeze out even more. So far only thing I'm yet to test is actual Bluray film content. I am thinking the Avengers I purchased yesterday will make a decent one to try. I've got plenty of others on list to look at too. The settings I've settled on for across the board use is High Def at 50.

To all those guys who have the Darbee, I now know what you mean, this little box rocks!


'
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post #3023 of 4372
9/2/12 at 6:47pm
Glad you like it. I just got a 1000ES from Sony yesterday to replace my long term loaner from them. I just shoved the Darbee in the chain and set it to 55. I watched and watched. Its been about 10 weeks since I last had a 1000ES. I will make no comparisons with and without the Darbee on. I know that it is better with it from my last one. This new Sony is better than the last and hopefully my engineering feedback now about 6 months ago helped Sony in tweaking the design a bit.
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post #3024 of 4372
9/2/12 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Glad you like it. I just got a 1000ES from Sony yesterday to replace my long term loaner from them. I just shoved the Darbee in the chain and set it to 55. I watched and watched. Its been about 10 weeks since I last had a 1000ES. I will make no comparisons with and without the Darbee on. I know that it is better with it from my last one. This new Sony is better than the last and hopefully my engineering feedback now about 6 months ago helped Sony in tweaking the design a bit.

Maybe I should just get a replacement then. Actually that is the last thing I want to because this 1000 is better than the first I had here. It has a terrific image and with the Darblet (pictured above in te football pic) it is next level. smile.gif
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post #3025 of 4372
9/2/12 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Not to mention my copy of Avengers coming Tuesday. eek.gif

The LFE on the soundtrack is going to be become an instant favorite.
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post #3026 of 4372
9/2/12 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The LFE on the soundtrack is going to be become an instant favorite.

If I wasn't bit tired after a big weekend last night, I would have had look at my Bluray copy (and have a listen). Plus, already having made sure I saw it at cinemas made it tad less urgent. I think tonight's the night for look though, at least at a few scenes to see how they look. Actually also looking forward to watching this weeks Breaking Bad, god I love how that show is shot, it always is a visual treat to go along with the killer plot lines biggrin.gif..
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post #3027 of 4372
9/2/12 at 8:31pm
We have people scheduled the next two weeks to watch it! Seriously. smile.gif
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post #3028 of 4372
9/2/12 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

If I wasn't bit tired after a big weekend last night, I would have had look at my Bluray copy (and have a listen). Plus, already having made sure I saw it at cinemas made it tad less urgent. I think tonight's the night for look though, at least at a few scenes to see how they look.

i'm more impressed with the sound vs. the 3D.. unbelievable mix.
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post #3029 of 4372
9/2/12 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i'm more impressed with the sound vs. the 3D.. unbelievable mix.

I always love good soundtracks. It's where everything in HT started for me, long before serious PQ started to become a bona fide aspect in itself. I think the 3D gets lost in amongst all the action in Avengers much as it did in the Transformers 3D anyway. I think the next big release disc that will be good for 3D will be Prometheus. Works in better with the Sci-fi/horror scenario for me.
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post #3030 of 4372
9/3/12 at 12:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Dot on the screen above number 7 (right side) 496k .JPG file Another Lens shot 102k .JPG file Sony Manual Statement about Bright and Dark Dots 1117k .JPG file Does not show up with regular viewing like football 2562k .JPG file Inner Lens "dot" 704k .JPG file
So my weekend has been busy trying to "fix" my issue I noticed pop up the other night. I think Mookie has the same as mine. During dark scenes or black outs I get an "orb" lkie "dot" that expands or gets smaller depending on what the Iris is doing. Turning Iris to Off allows it to stay constanty but very faint. Normal viewing like football or regualr movie scenes it is undetectable. So far I have air canned the vents and then removed the Lamp and air canned that area. I have not had luck getting it to go away. I did a lot o research and from what I gather Blue, Green or Red dots would indicate the SXRD panel whereas a white or gray type dot would mean it was in the optics between the Lens and the Lamp. I never had this issue with any of the other projectors I have had. I just hit the 200 hour mark. I have read a ton on Dust Blobs and obviously this must be one unless I am missig something. I did see at the end of the Sony Manual it has a statement about dark and bright points being normal but I don't think they are talking about this. I noticed on the inner part of my lens a dot (that I can't get to of course) which I think is the source. In talks with Mookie he had two just like it and one has fallen off. At the moment I am running the 1000 in High Lamp Mode in hopes it might do the same. My only other option besides sending it to Texas (Sony) is to take it down and remove the uderside and see if I can air can the back side of the lens. Of course this kind of procedure makes me nervous since we all know how much that lens is worth. Plus warranty violation etc... If it were a simplethin to do however I would do it and save a trip. Especially with football season upon us. Not to mention my copy of Avengers coming Tuesday. eek.gif Like I said it is not very noticeable. Problem is I find myself looking for it with any dark type of scene! biggrin.gif Hopefully it just falls off in there. Wasn't this supposd to be a sealed path? Anyway, I feel like George Costanza in the episode where he was telling the Twix bar to JUMP when it got stuck in the vending machine... I should go see Sony this weekend and get their opinion. Now back to the Dot... mad.gif
*Inner Lens pic* the Dot on the inner side is towards the middle. The rest was on the outside and easily removed.

My first instinct would be to tell you not to tear it down yourself! One small screw up and there goes your investment. It's a small inconvenience to send it in, but you'll probably be glad you did in the long run.

I noticed something interesting about the "quiet revisions" to this projector. A few months after the projector came out, they started distributing the VW1000ES1 units. A month or two after that, they went to the VW1000ES2 units. However, a short time thereafter, they seemed to go back to the VW1000ES1 units, and no one on here has had a 2 recently (as far as I can tell from the posting). Personally, my replacement that arrived last week is a 1 model, not a 2. I'd like to know what changes were made to each small revision and why they seemed to abandon the 2.

It's alarming that, out of such a small sample, there have been many instances of dust entering the "sealed" light path. And, even if the problem isn't manifesting itself as dust blob, others have reported dust "behind" the lens. Yikes!
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