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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 108

post #3211 of 9746
batman tdk bluray was one of the movies..
but also the art of flight had noise although images were spectacular..
post #3212 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

batman tdk bluray was one of the movies..
but also the art of flight had noise although images were spectacular..

All three movies in the Dark Knight trilogy were shot on film, which has an inherent grain. All the VW1000ES does is highlight what is already there. I don't think it's as much a fault of the projector as it is a fault with 4K upscaling on current sources. When you upscale a Blu-Ray, all you're doing is amplifying and multiplying the grain.

I would try something that was shot entirely in digital and you'll see the true beauty of this projector.
post #3213 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

I watched the 1000 once again..
I love it but... too noise in the images..
even with the presence of a Radiance
set with different memories of noise reduction..
not to consider that everytime you apply
NR you kill the image in some way...

This projector is very revealing, just like a good audio system. when the source is good it's glorious. When it is bad, its bad. It's not the projectors fault.
post #3214 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelMN View Post

This projector is very revealing, just like a good audio system. when the source is good it's glorious. When it is bad, its bad. It's not the projectors fault.

I want to say first that I'd love to buy this projector as my first one
for its brightness, the overall image quality,already 4k, good 3d, memories (even if I was looking for a lampless solution)..
That' said
what you write is correct but ...
I'm not sayng it's a projector fault..
it really doesn' t matter up to me.
fault or not fault if I see noise I don't like..
and because of the lack of 4k content
if upscaling blurays means more noise (the noise I don't see with a full hd projector)
I'm not sure I will enjoy a better image...
post #3215 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

I want to say first that I'd love to buy this projector as my first one
for its brightness, the overall image quality,already 4k, good 3d, memories (even if I was looking for a lampless solution)..
That' said
what you write is correct but ...
I'm not sayng it's a projector fault..
it really doesn' t matter up to me.
fault or not fault if I see noise I don't like..
and because of the lack of 4k content
if upscaling blurays means more noise (the noise I don't see with a full hd projector)
I'm not sure I will enjoy a better image...

This is hands down the pest pj for the money. PQ is something that cannot be described as you have to see what it does to grasp how good the image is. Throw in the high light output and its golden. The grain will be seen on any pj that has good PQ and even on the not so good PQ pjs. Every pj has its faults and showing grain isnt a fault to me by any means. I'm upset with the features of it more than anything, zoom memory, focus, and some motion issues which arent too bad but still there. I bought it for my long term pj and if didnt have the zoom memory and focus issues I would be 100% satisfied.
post #3216 of 9746
I totally agree. If one is interested in one, please give Mike G. a call. You won't be wasting a call. I wish I could say more but just give him a call. smile.gif
post #3217 of 9746
It should be... it is $24999. Now the real question is the performance worth 8-10x price increase compared to most of the other high quality HD projectors. Considering that native content is virtually non-existant, I would say not worth it. Now if I won the lottery and money was no object then yeah it would be on my short list.
post #3218 of 9746
To contribute on this, the 1000es DOES NOT add noise to an image, nor does 4k up-sampling exacerbate grain (that would be implying it only accentuates a "negative" and not the positive attributes of the image.

One thing I noticed was the default settings for 3D on the 1000 were not ideal (color at 65, sharpness set high). I know you were talking about 2D titles, but double check that something there or in RC is not set excessively high. While you could have a bad unit, it sounds like what you are describing is not an issue with the 1000. Everything has it's warts, but overall It's a fantastic unit. And they do have tremendous customer support...
post #3219 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMundt View Post

Can you post some pictures of what you're seeing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the green dust blobs mean a dust speck on the panel, and a non-green blob could mean dust inside the lens, which has been reported a few times.
Perhaps I'm looking into this too much, but it seems that those who have received a recent replacement have had no issues with dust (myself included). Maybe it's something that they've corrected since your replacement?

Thanks for that, as I don't recall seeing the difference in colors mentioned. I think exposure time will be an issue, especially since my tripod is currently MIA, but if I can get pics up I will.
post #3220 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I have the same problem and both of my units exhibited it. Not only with the zoom but with focus too. Very annoying to say the least considering how much Sony is charging for this faulty pj. I know there isnt a perfect pj but if it offers a function atleast make it work!

My calibrator thought it could have something to do with using maximum zoom since I'm at minimum throw. By chance have you been hitting maximums on lens shift?

I tried reducing zoom a few clicks so I wasn't hitting the maximums but it didn't help. I've either already damaged it or it just doesn't help.

Does everybody else's zoom settings "click/jump/skip" during the lens shift cycle most of the time? It doesn't do it to me everytime but most times. I have a hard time believing it can get back to memory settings with the skips.

I should take a video of it doing it and post it so others can compare. Both my units did it.

I know have potentially 3 reasons to send it back: dust blobs, a fix for bugs in IP control (although nobody has shown a newer firmware than I have so that may not be fixed yet), and the lens shift issue. Would rather have them fix the current unit than roll the dice on a different one.
post #3221 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

To contribute on this, the 1000es DOES NOT add noise to an image, nor does 4k up-sampling exacerbate grain (that would be implying it only accentuates a "negative" and not the positive attributes of the image.
One thing I noticed was the default settings for 3D on the 1000 were not ideal (color at 65, sharpness set high). I know you were talking about 2D titles, but double check that something there or in RC is not set excessively high. While you could have a bad unit, it sounds like what you are describing is not an issue with the 1000. Everything has it's warts, but overall It's a fantastic unit. And they do have tremendous customer support...

Using RC does contribute to noise and that's why there is a noise filter slider as the two part settings for RC. Adjusting RC is basically a crap shoot though I use the single pixel line on off patterns (horizontal and vertical) in my Lumagen. The best I have found are the factory defaults. the noise control does not appear to be linear and adjusting it causes strange things in the test pattern, just one click from another can cause banding and blotchiness.
Edited by mark haflich - 10/3/12 at 4:57pm
post #3222 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

I've always liked the 'lensing' in Dexter. Not as clean as Breaking Bad say but very good nonetheless, colourful Miami backdrops help too. I did notice a bit of an improvement in source there this year now that you mention it. It was such an overall leap forward in my equipment since last year for me. That was the jump from the VW95 back then to now with the VW1000 and also def noticing the Darblet in the chain too adding some PQ spice.


Speaking of Dexter we had an awesome Season Premiere party. We had 10 people over and everyone showed up with a "cut" face. It was fun. Everyone enjoyed the first episode. And the Dexter cake came out amazing!!!
post #3223 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post


Speaking of Dexter we had an awesome Season Premiere party. We had 10 people over and everyone showed up with a "cut" face. It was fun. Everyone enjoyed the first episode. And the Dexter cake came out amazing!!!

Awesome!
post #3224 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

It should be... it is $24999. Now the real question is the performance worth 8-10x price increase compared to most of the other high quality HD projectors. Considering that native content is virtually non-existant, I would say not worth it. Now if I won the lottery and money was no object then yeah it would be on my short list.

I dont know where the 8-10 times price increase number came from but can say the you will not get the PQ of this pj for anywhere near its price that has the light output of the 1000. Now if wanted to compromise pq a tad and use a dual serup then there would be pros and cons that would need to be weighed for each's own needs. I would only use a $6-9k pj for a dual setup so still would be talking around 15k mid of road to have close to the same pq, but would be a tad brighter in 3D as well. If did a dual setup one would miss out on 4k content in the future so its really up to the purchaser. I feel that I have a pj that can light up my 13' "wide" screen without any issues at all and am future proofed as well. Sure money comes into play but if one is even "talking" about buying this pj money shouldnt be of concern, honestly. Thats like going to a exotic car dealer and asking how much a $1M car cost. Its not cheap but there is a market where purchasers could easily buy a pj that cost a whole lot more but decide on the 1000.

For the money it really cant be touched when looking at the whole package. I'd love to see two JVC eshift pjs hooked together on a large screen just to see how much more sharp the sony really is. That would be my next step down set up.

Now if Sony would only recognize that fact that some of these units are having major problems with the zoom, and would have to guess focus as well since I've seen it on both of my units, then I would become a fanboy. This is my first Sony product of any kind that is high end so hope they continue to make things better. JVC threads are full of people complaining about the zoom issue too so it isnt just Sony on that one.
post #3225 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

My calibrator thought it could have something to do with using maximum zoom since I'm at minimum throw. By chance have you been hitting maximums on lens shift?
I tried reducing zoom a few clicks so I wasn't hitting the maximums but it didn't help. I've either already damaged it or it just doesn't help.
Does everybody else's zoom settings "click/jump/skip" during the lens shift cycle most of the time? It doesn't do it to me everytime but most times. I have a hard time believing it can get back to memory settings with the skips.
I should take a video of it doing it and post it so others can compare. Both my units did it.
I know have potentially 3 reasons to send it back: dust blobs, a fix for bugs in IP control (although nobody has shown a newer firmware than I have so that may not be fixed yet), and the lens shift issue. Would rather have them fix the current unit than roll the dice on a different one.

Both of my units just were off after switching back and forth a few times. There wasnt any skipping except when it was shifting at the end of the cycle. The zoom part seems smooth although I cant say that I've actually paid that much attention. Will check it out and get back. What I did notice was that the focus being off had nothing to do with the zoom being off.

My throw isnt at the min but very close. I can overshoot the image by about 6 inches on both sides of the screen.
post #3226 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Using RC does contribute to noise and that's why there is a noise filter slider as the two part settings for RC. Adjusting RC is basically a crap shoot though I use the single pixel line on off patters (horizontal and vertical) in my Lumagen. The best I have found are the factory defaults. the noise control does not appear to be linear and adjusting it causes strange things in the test pattern, just one click from another can cause banding and blotchiness.

I totally agree with that. I havent been able to change the RC controls and improve the image either.
post #3227 of 9746
To make things perfectly clear, I prefer the RC on but use the RC defaults Sony has set for each mode, modes being reference etc..
post #3228 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

batman tdk bluray was one of the movies..
but also the art of flight had noise although images were spectacular..

If you are going to pick on 'Art of Flight' flight for 'noise', you are truly fussy there mate. I use that played off my HTPC as ref to show people. I've viewed it something like 5 times all the way through, not to mention certain scenes many times. If look hard into the mpeg compression used, sure you can see tiny amounts of artifacting that results in certain scenes, but thats digital compression artifacts, not noise.
post #3229 of 9746
Just got home from work and my Oppo 103 is here. Time to play!
post #3230 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I dont know where the 8-10 times price increase number came from but can say the you will not get the PQ of this pj for anywhere near its price that has the light output of the 1000. Now if wanted to compromise pq a tad and use a dual serup then there would be pros and cons that would need to be weighed for each's own needs. I would only use a $6-9k pj for a dual setup so still would be talking around 15k mid of road to have close to the same pq, but would be a tad brighter in 3D as well. If did a dual setup one would miss out on 4k content in the future so its really up to the purchaser. I feel that I have a pj that can light up my 13' "wide" screen without any issues at all and am future proofed as well. Sure money comes into play but if one is even "talking" about buying this pj money shouldnt be of concern, honestly. Thats like going to a exotic car dealer and asking how much a $1M car cost. Its not cheap but there is a market where purchasers could easily buy a pj that cost a whole lot more but decide on the 1000.
For the money it really cant be touched when looking at the whole package. I'd love to see two JVC eshift pjs hooked together on a large screen just to see how much more sharp the sony really is. That would be my next step down set up.
Now if Sony would only recognize that fact that some of these units are having major problems with the zoom, and would have to guess focus as well since I've seen it on both of my units, then I would become a fanboy. This is my first Sony product of any kind that is high end so hope they continue to make things better. JVC threads are full of people complaining about the zoom issue too so it isnt just Sony on that one.

Get a Cineslide with ISCO lll lens. It's fast and the image is fantastic. :-)
http://www.techht.com/
post #3231 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

Just got home from work and my Oppo 103 is here. Time to play!

Cool. Are you upgrading from prev Oppo model? If so, extra keen to hear your impressions of the 103.
post #3232 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

Just got home from work and my Oppo 103 is here. Time to play!

Bastard! smile.gif Mine won't be here until tomorrow.
post #3233 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

To make things perfectly clear, I prefer the RC on but use the RC defaults Sony has set for each mode, modes being reference etc..

Do you recall what the default was for ref mode?
post #3234 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

Cool. Are you upgrading from prev Oppo model? If so, extra keen to hear your impressions of the 103.

I have the 93.

The interface is faster, discs load faster, eject button on player is lit, Netflix interface is now like the one on the PS3. That's all so far. Image doesn't look any different to me, but I thought the 93 was flawless so it's hard for me to imagine an improvement there. Maybe someone else can weigh in,

I gotta do so swapping of cables tomorrow to test out the 4k conversion.

I only tested avatar which is an eye candy blu ray, and scenes from avengers 3d.

I'll play more the next few days...
post #3235 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

I have the 93.
The interface is faster, discs load faster, eject button on player is lit, Netflix interface is now like the one on the PS3. That's all so far. Image doesn't look any different to me, but I thought the 93 was flawless so it's hard for me to imagine an improvement there. Maybe someone else can weigh in,
I gotta do so swapping of cables tomorrow to test out the 4k conversion.
I only tested avatar which is an eye candy blu ray, and scenes from avengers 3d.
I'll play more the next few days...

Excellent. Yeah I suspect really it will be hard to exceed the bluray results of the 93. I think there's been some comment on the 4K upconversion that basically like others to date the VW1000's internal scaling is still better, but the more feedback the better I say. Seems like it's going to be a while before the 103's are in wide distribution and folk in down in the far reaches like me can get my mitts on one. I do have a need for a 3D bluray for another HT set up, so I may have an excuse to get a 103.
post #3236 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Do you recall what the default was for ref mode?


I lent my machine to a friend to try on his large screen so I do not have the settings before me. I haven't changed them. I am going off memory and I could be wrong, but I think 20, 30.
post #3237 of 9746
My guess is that they won't sell alot of these to people who already own a 93 and don't need a second machine. Frankly, I use cheap bluray/3D players in my HT and around my house, nothing that cost me at retail over $119. Maybe I will pick up a second hand 93 from someone who must have a 103.
post #3238 of 9746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Using RC does contribute to noise and that's why there is a noise filter slider as the two part settings for RC. Adjusting RC is basically a crap shoot though I use the single pixel line on off patterns (horizontal and vertical) in my Lumagen. The best I have found are the factory defaults. the noise control does not appear to be linear and adjusting it causes strange things in the test pattern, just one click from another can cause banding and blotchiness.

But RC ≠ 4k, am I correct? I mean, the 1000 is scaling to 4k regardless of RC settings is my understanding...
post #3239 of 9746
Yes, either 4HD or 4K depending on which you select. RC is applied, I think, after the scale to 4HD or 4K. RC screws with the pixels after the scale and introduces noise which has to be ameliorated by the RC noise filter slider. It does not appear to operate in a linear fashion and small changes have a quite visable effect on my suggested test patterns. If I remember you have a Radiance, so put up one of those single pixel line on off patterns and play a bit. You will see what I mean.

Of course RC coukld be dne as part of the scale to 4HD or 4K also, by employing a more complex scaling alg with two parameters being user adjustable once the RC scaling is employed. The same would apply though as the above. The additional sharpening, the resolution slider, introduces noise which once again needs to be ameliorated.f
Edited by mark haflich - 10/4/12 at 1:17pm
post #3240 of 9746
The new 103 has a feature that is a big game changer! I absolutely can't wait to post my Review.
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