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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 119

post #3541 of 9665

I have a RadianceMini and use ChromaPure for auto cal on my 1000ES.    Unfortunately I'm not technically sophisticated enough to be a beta tester, but am looking forward to trading in my RadMini for a Radiance4K when possible.

post #3542 of 9665
Not to get too far into "conspiracy theory land," but does anyone find the close proximity of the Red/Sony 4K platform announcements interesting? It would be a pretty big coincidence if both companies built hardware (potentially- we have to wait and see) and a backend distribution network and planned to launch around the same timeframe (within days, really).

I think the chances of this are pretty slim, but wouldn't it be great if Sony and Red teamed up? Sony's got the native 4K content that is currently sitting around and collecting dust (or being downscaled to Blu-Ray- not to mention the falling price of Blu-Ray and the inability for studios to charge a "premium" for Blu-Ray as they could for 4K) along with the robust online distribution network. Red has the proprietary 4K compression codecs that, judging from impressions around the web, is pretty spectacular. Not to mention that many of the recent Sony 4K movies were shot on Red (The Amazing Spiderman was shot on the Red Epic).

Sony has been losing money recently on hardware, so letting Red take the lead on the hardware side would make sense. And, it would allow them to avoid another format war.

Plus, from a marketing standpoint, "Redray" would be a perfect spiritual successor, or sibling, to Blu-Ray, as the name is now in the public consciousness. Easy to market.
Edited by BrianMundt - 11/27/12 at 10:23am
post #3543 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I have a RadianceMini and use ChromaPure for auto cal on my 1000ES.    Unfortunately I'm not technically sophisticated enough to be a beta tester, but am looking forward to trading in my RadMini for a Radiance4K when possible.

Wow, Millerwill, you really "stepped up" in my absence! You and I used to discuss the same level of projectors back in the day, namely the JVC's. I still have my RS20 and am back in the forums because I just got the CalMAN version of the 125 point ColorCube auto-cal technology with a C6 and Radiance. Even my wife thinks the results are spectacular.

You've always approached HT with a level-headed discipline , good knowledge and intelligence. Given that I was wondering if you would be willing to tell me why you chose ChromaPure over CalMAN, perhaps in a PM as it is probably OT here. There are many opinions expressed in the calibration threads. But I'm most interested in yours if you have the time.

Thanks!
post #3544 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post


Wow, Millerwill, you really "stepped up" in my absence! You and I used to discuss the same level of projectors back in the day, namely the JVC's. I still have my RS20 and am back in the forums because I just got the CalMAN version of the 125 point ColorCube auto-cal technology with a C6 and Radiance. Even my wife thinks the results are spectacular.
You've always approached HT with a level-headed discipline , good knowledge and intelligence. Given that I was wondering if you would be willing to tell me why you chose ChromaPure over CalMAN, perhaps in a PM as it is probably OT here. There are many opinions expressed in the calibration threads. But I'm most interested in yours if you have the time.
Thanks!


pm sent

post #3545 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMundt View Post

Not to get too far into "conspiracy theory land," but does anyone find the close proximity of the Red/Sony 4K platform announcements interesting? It would be a pretty big coincidence if both companies built hardware (potentially- we have to wait and see) and a backend distribution network and planned to launch around the same timeframe (within days, really).
I think the chances of this are pretty slim, but wouldn't it be great if Sony and Red teamed up? Sony's got the native 4K content that is currently sitting around and collecting dust (or being downscaled to Blu-Ray- not to mention the falling price of Blu-Ray and the inability for studios to charge a "premium" for Blu-Ray as they could for 4K) along with the robust online distribution network. Red has the proprietary 4K compression codecs that, judging from impressions around the web, is pretty spectacular. Not to mention that many of the recent Sony 4K movies were shot on Red (The Amazing Spiderman was shot on the Red Epic).
Sony has been losing money recently on hardware, so letting Red take the lead on the hardware side would make sense. And, it would allow them to avoid another format war.
Plus, from a marketing standpoint, "Redray" would be a perfect spiritual successor, or sibling, to Blu-Ray, as the name is now in the public consciousness. Easy to market.

Red is supposed to be issuing an announcement on friday on its redray player and its content distribution partner. you will have earned an Sonoscar if you are correct
post #3546 of 9665

Yaa, hooo!    My replacement lamp (thanks, Mike!) arrived from AVS late last night, and I've just put it in--wow, back to the big plasma!

 

I had 1900 hrs on the old one (OK, I know that's a lot!), mostly in high lamp mode, and my last measurement showed it to be putting out ~ 180 lumens, giving me ~ 6 to 7 ftL off the screen--too dim for me!

 

$800 for a lamp is not nothing, but compared to how much these things depreciate per year, it is not much more than nothing.    To me, it's false economy to 'save the lamp' on these things.

 

I'll wait a bit before doing autocal via Chromapure, but man, it looks incredible on the Ref preset as is.

post #3547 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Yaa, hooo!    My replacement lamp (thanks, Mike!) arrived from AVS late last night, and I've just put it in--wow, back to the big plasma!

I had 1900 hrs on the old one (OK, I know that's a lot!), mostly in high lamp mode, and my last measurement showed it to be putting out ~ 180 lumens, giving me ~ 6 to 7 ftL off the screen--too dim for me!

$800 for a lamp is not nothing, but compared to how much these things depreciate per year, it is not much more than nothing.    To me, it's false economy to 'save the lamp' on these things.

I'll wait a bit before doing autocal via Chromapure, but man, it looks incredible on the Ref preset as is.

That's good feedback re lamp hrs in high lamp mode. I have my replacement standing by as at last week. I haven't gone in to check my hrs since before I ordered the replacement, but I'm thinking I'm prob not all that far away from it going.

I got a quote on the Chromapure with autocal package and mini 3D. I think I'm going to push the button. Apparently there's a 2-3 week delay on the mini's at the moment though. I agree it is really hard to fault Ref mode, even with a lamp well over 1000 hrs.
post #3548 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I am sure you will be a top candidate given your many many anti processor posts. smile.gif You do have a 4K projector and I am sure the Lumagen no ring scaling will be superior to that in the Sony which does exhibit a modest amount of ringing but I (and I am not Lumagen and am speaking for myself) would still be hesitant given your complete lack of appreciation for the many other fine things a top notch processor can do to closer perfect a HT .For example, the 1000ES lacks a color management system which I have found needed as the Sony bulb and panels age. Also such things as auto calibration including multi point gray scale and gamma and 125 point cms. I don't think I would offer a top notch reel and rod to a non fisherman even though the indi vidual may have a expensive tropical salt water fish tank and like seafood. smile.gif A beta tester must be familar with using a large percentage of the functions the processor can do and be able to thoroughly test them for possible problems. Betatest units come from a very limited beta production run and the distribution of beta units must be well thought out if beta testing is to accomplish its objectives.
I think you would become a much more viable candidate if you picked up a mini while the price is so low, a copy of chromapure with auto cal, and an inexpensive calibrated probe. These would make you a better reviewer than the already very good one you are as well as improve the quality of your reviews which are now more or less completely subjective. By the time you have learned to appreciate and use all these goodies you would be well qualified to be a beta tester although I suspect beta testers will be required to purchase the unit at beta tester prices .None of this should be viewed by ANYONE as an attack on Joerod who is indeed a friend and a very important insider in our beloved industry and sport. Through our careers we have each done much to make the other better. I fully appreciate the help Joerod has given me and his contributions to our sport.

I actually have been using a Duo off and on. Maybe I should finally try a mini 3D? eek.gif Mike? Mike? smile.gif
post #3549 of 9665
Just spoke with Mike. I will hopefully have a Mini 3D here on Friday. smile.gif
post #3550 of 9665
You certainly move fast Joe! Are you going to play with autocal? I'd like to hear what you think of results if so.
post #3551 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

You certainly move fast Joe! Are you going to play with autocal? I'd like to hear what you think of results if so.

Certainly. Of course my first mission is to plug in DirecTV to it and see what it does with football and shows like Dexter! smile.gif
post #3552 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Certainly. Of course my first mission is to plug in DirecTV to it and see what it does with football and shows like Dexter! smile.gif

Of course Dexter is a must do! Talk about degrees of separation, Yvonne Strahovski, aka Hannah McKay is a best friend of a recently departed employee of mine and attended her farewell party only a few months back. Damn I wish I'd gone along!!!!!!
post #3553 of 9665
It would be cool if a new Lumagen had Darblet 4k processing as well. Probably dreaming, I know.
post #3554 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

That's good feedback re lamp hrs in high lamp mode. I have my replacement standing by as at last week. I haven't gone in to check my hrs since before I ordered the replacement, but I'm thinking I'm prob not all that far away from it going.
I got a quote on the Chromapure with autocal package and mini 3D. I think I'm going to push the button. Apparently there's a 2-3 week delay on the mini's at the moment though. I agree it is really hard to fault Ref mode, even with a lamp well over 1000 hrs.

Fault depends on whether you want close to very accurate colors. As the lamp ages the colors will drift, particularly red if I remember correctly. When watching over time as the bulb ages most wouldn't notice the drift and could post things look fine and that is whatIi thought. But after recalibrating it was quite obvious how much drift had occured and how much better things looked after recalibration. I need to measure to see how much light has been lost by about 300 hours.
Edited by mark haflich - 11/29/12 at 7:16am
post #3555 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Yaa, hooo!    My replacement lamp (thanks, Mike!) arrived from AVS late last night, and I've just put it in--wow, back to the big plasma!

I had 1900 hrs on the old one (OK, I know that's a lot!), mostly in high lamp mode, and my last measurement showed it to be putting out ~ 180 lumens, giving me ~ 6 to 7 ftL off the screen--too dim for me!

$800 for a lamp is not nothing, but compared to how much these things depreciate per year, it is not much more than nothing.    To me, it's false economy to 'save the lamp' on these things.

I'll wait a bit before doing autocal via Chromapure, but man, it looks incredible on the Ref preset as is.

You are welcome. Once you add sales tax and shipping costs, the price starts to climb.
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post #3556 of 9665
Yea. Its pretty cheap before sales tax and shipping costs. Not!
post #3557 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I am sure you will be a top candidate given your many many anti processor posts. smile.gif You do have a 4K projector and I am sure the Lumagen no ring scaling will be superior to that in the Sony which does exhibit a modest amount of ringing but I (and I am not Lumagen and am speaking for myself) would still be hesitant given your complete lack of appreciation for the many other fine things a top notch processor can do to closer perfect a HT .For example, the 1000ES lacks a color management system which I have found needed as the Sony bulb and panels age. Also such things as auto calibration including multi point gray scale and gamma and 125 point cms. I don't think I would offer a top notch reel and rod to a non fisherman even though the indi vidual may have a expensive tropical salt water fish tank and like seafood. smile.gif A beta tester must be familar with using a large percentage of the functions the processor can do and be able to thoroughly test them for possible problems. Betatest units come from a very limited beta production run and the distribution of beta units must be well thought out if beta testing is to accomplish its objectives.
I think you would become a much more viable candidate if you picked up a mini while the price is so low, a copy of chromapure with auto cal, and an inexpensive calibrated probe. These would make you a better reviewer than the already very good one you are as well as improve the quality of your reviews which are now more or less completely subjective. By the time you have learned to appreciate and use all these goodies you would be well qualified to be a beta tester although I suspect beta testers will be required to purchase the unit at beta tester prices .None of this should be viewed by ANYONE as an attack on Joerod who is indeed a friend and a very important insider in our beloved industry and sport. Through our careers we have each done much to make the other better. I fully appreciate the help Joerod has given me and his contributions to our sport.

Joerod will soon be the proud new owner of a Lumagen Mini 3d. smile.gif I agree with mark, once Joerod tries the Mini and finds out what it is capable of, he will be much more appreciative of its abilities and what it can bring to the table.
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post #3558 of 9665
Hmm, he's going to have a lot to backtrack on....I thought his Oppo did it all for him wink.gif?

And besides that, the mini doesn't support PiP/PoP, which to me is one of the main reasons to have one...so I will be real interested to see what he thinks...
Edited by turls - 11/28/12 at 8:16am
post #3559 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post


Fault depends on whether you want close to very accurate colors. As the lamp ages the colors will drift, particularly red if I remember correctly. When ewatching over time as the bulb ages most wouldn't notice the drift and could post things look fine and that is what i thought. But after recalibrating it was quite obvious how much drift had occured and how much better things looked after recalibration. I do not tneed to measure to see how much light has been lost by about 300 hours.


Yes, my lamp certainly lost red as it dimmed.  

 

Autocal is a blessing in being able to run a CMS so routinely.     This is in fact what really showed me that red couldn't keep up.   Tom Huffman's suggestion (to raise the global Color control a bit, and re-calibrate) was a useful patch for a while.   But nothing like having the full strength of a new lamp!

post #3560 of 9665
Two things:

I got Sony's new Google TV box over Black Friday weekend on sale, does anybody have any suggestions on where to put it in the chain? I have Lumagen (not 4K) that does most of my switching going into my Marantz AVR (also not 4K), then to the Sony. I hate adding yet another source to the chain, and to get audio to the AVR and get the overlay advantages of the Google TV platform I will need to put it between the Lumagen and the Marantz. do I need to worry about picture degradation or issues with HDMI/HDCP?

Does anybody else have a HTPC with Nvidia hooked up to the Sony and trying to run custom resolutions so you can get 2.35 image from the HTPC? It recognizes the 1000ES, but in my scaling choices, GPU is not an option, only the display. From what I can tell, this might be removed from the choices because of something the driver senses on the capabilities of the Sony.

I did finally get gaming to work with this setup (at least for Crysis 2 and BF3), with a beautiful huge 2.35 image, but I had to jump through some hoops in the driver settings. And since I can't choose GPU scaling, I think my performance may not be the best.
post #3561 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Hmm, he's going to have a lot to backtrack on....I thought his Oppo did it all for him wink.gif?
And besides that, the mini doesn't support PiP/PoP, which to me is one of the main reasons to have one...so I will be real interested to see what he thinks...

Turls. I think you have lost the tree in the forest re Joerod. He wants to be a beta tester for the coming 4K Radiance. That baby will have everything plus a few more things. smile.gif Joerod is getting a mini at my suggestion as a small bycicle with training wheels so he can learn the many things it can do and how to do them on a Radiance. Once he learns the ins and outs of that he could then qualify as a beta tester. I do believe the 4K will have pip/pop etc plus some other goodies even the XE doesn't have because there is not enough space on the programable gate chips.

Everyone who has a 1000ES needs some sort of external processor to perform CMS functions lacking in the 1000ES and if one wants to do the 125 point calibration which for all practicable purposes requires automation. you already know all this, I am just repeating it for others. But the present Lumagen is limited to 1080p and could not calibrate at 3840 or 4096 stream or even scale to beyond 1080p. The Lumagen scaler does not ring. One will see the benefits of the Lumagen scaler scaling 720p or 1080p to 4HD or 4K over how the Sony does it which unfortunately hass mild ringing. I see these as two of the main reasons for the Lumagen 4K though there are certainly many others.

I never use pip/pop but for those that do like you it is a reason to own the XE and replacing it with the 4K Lumagen since you have a 1000ES.

BTW. Thank you for all your valuable contributions to this thread. You have graduated to full fledge video nerd status. Congratulations.
Edited by mark haflich - 11/29/12 at 7:17am
post #3562 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Hmm, he's going to have a lot to backtrack on....I thought his Oppo did it all for him wink.gif?
And besides that, the mini doesn't support PiP/PoP, which to me is one of the main reasons to have one...so I will be real interested to see what he thinks...

I will definitely experiment but i see no reason to not at least try going into the Mini first (with DirecTV) then send it into the Oppo which could then do its "pop" tricks with football. Of course i will do it many ways before I decide (or group vote) on which looks best. smile.gif
post #3563 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

BTW. thasnk you for all your valuable contributions to this thread. You have graduated to full fledge video nerd status. Congratulations.

I am so far below nerd status compared to others in this thread...but I do look forward to what new treats the next Lumagen will bring.
post #3564 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Fault depends on whether you want close to very accurate colors. As the lamp ages the colors will drift, particularly red if I remember correctly. When ewatching over time as the bulb ages most wouldn't notice the drift and could post things look fine and that is what i thought. But after recalibrating it was quite obvious how much drift had occured and how much better things looked after recalibration. I do not tneed to measure to see how much light has been lost by about 300 hours.

Totally get that Mark. It's very hard with the naked eye to perceive that drift over time. I am def excited about getting the Lumagen in my system. Just waiting for my friends who own the local distribution to get back to me on pricing.
post #3565 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I will definitely experiment but i see no reason to not at least try going into the Mini first (with DirecTV) then send it into the Oppo which could then do its "pop" tricks with football. Of course i will do it many ways before I decide (or group vote) on which looks best. smile.gif

Kinda like trying a multitude of sexual positions before you find the one that gives you the best pop? smile.gif

It sounds like you want to put some sort of distortion apparatus on your projector to increase how dramatic or whatever your picture cabn be. Like using a wider color space to get more colors while destroying the colors intended.

The best way in my opinion to use it would not be stacking processors unless to add some function not provided by one.

Many use a Lumagen into a Darblet which I think rather than stacking processors is simply adding a function not included in the existing Lumagens.

Let's repeat after me. Use it to scale 720p to 1080p abd deinterlace 1080i to 1080p. See what it does to a 1080p display. In the 1000es you must use the Sony scaler to go from 1080p to 2160p so you will still get some ringing.

Learn to use the calibration features of the Lumagen. GThis will take you a while because you will need to fully understand, gray scale, gamma, and CMS calibrations. Not to do it with an automated program which is easy but to understand what you are doing. Its not like experimenting with weird combinations of liquors to see which makes you get drunk faster but to perfect the perfect drink. Of course, perhaps you might pfrfer the deinterlacer in the Opppo, all video deinterlacers are different, there is no perfect deinterlacer and some do better than others for certain types of artifacting. But let's for the most part leave daisy chaining to another room.
post #3566 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

I am so far below nerd status compared to others in this thread...but I do look forward to what new treats the next Lumagen will bring.

There are obviously multi levels of nerdism. Sort of like black belts in judo. But you have clearly reached black belt status. Wear it with pride. You have earned it.
post #3567 of 9665

For whoever's interested, with my new lamp (low lamp mode, Ref preset, min throw distance, Br = 51, Cst = 90) I've measured ~ 1100 - 1200 lumens, giving ~ 35 ftL off the screen (HP2.4, 144x72, with pj optimally located for it).    Man, does it look nice!!

post #3568 of 9665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Kinda like trying a multitude of sexual positions before you find the one that gives you the best pop? smile.gif
It sounds like you want to put some sort of distortion apparatus on your projector to increase how dramatic or whatever your picture cabn be. Like using a wider color space to get more colors while destroying the colors intended.
The best way in my opinion to use it would not be stacking processors unless to add some function not provided by one.
Many use a Lumagen into a Darblet which I think rather than stacking processors is simply adding a function not included in the existing Lumagens.
Let's repeat after me. Use it to scale 720p to 1080p abd deinterlace 1080i to 1080p. See what it does to a 1080p display. In the 1000es you must use the Sony scaler to go from 1080p to 2160p so you will still get some ringing.
Learn to use the calibration features of the Lumagen. GThis will take you a while because you will need to fully understand, gray scale, gamma, and CMS calibrations. Not to do it with an automated program which is easy but to understand what you are doing. Its not like experimenting with weird combinations of liquors to see which makes you get drunk faster but to perfect the perfect drink. Of course, perhaps you might pfrfer the deinterlacer in the Opppo, all video deinterlacers are different, there is no perfect deinterlacer and some do better than others for certain types of artifacting. But let's for the most part leave daisy chaining to another room.

I appreciate your advice. Actually I wasn't planning to use the oppo for deinterlacing at all. I just use it to add its "pop" features like color and contrast enhancements. Those are like the frosting on a cake for football. For blu ray 2D and DirecTV I use the Oppo's mode 2 at default and for 3D I use mode 3 for 3D with a couple notches of the enhancements. Depending on how handshaking goes and the overall image I will experiment more with different positions. I even added 8 foot Hdmi cables (since the 3 footers can cause issues) to go from the Mini to the Oppo or to the Datblet. Also for the Oppo to go to either the Darblet or the Mini (I most likely will bypass the Mini and just have it run straight to the Darblet which then runs to the 1000). Oh and also for the output if by AVR even though it will be just doing (or passing) 1080i and 720p. Going to be a fun weekend. smile.gif
post #3569 of 9665
It is best to run the Oppo and Mini in a daisy chain. The Lumagens do not contain functions which can enhance the image similar to what the Darblet does. There would be some overlap between what the Darblet does and the RC in the sony, but that would be minimal. Most who own 1000ES use it with a Darblet and many own a lumagen as well making their chain a bluray player, Lumagen, Darblet, 1000ES. the Darblet does one thing, the Mini does many things but not the thing the Darblet does.
Edited by mark haflich - 11/30/12 at 7:52am
post #3570 of 9665
Sony Unveils 4K Ultra HD Server For Its 84-inch LCD TV

By Greg Tarr

2012-11-29 09:19:00

http://www.twice.com/articletype/news/sony-unveils-4k-ultra-hd-server-its-84-inch-lcd-tv/104085

Los Angeles - Sony Electronics formally took "4K Ultra High Definition" to the next level Thursday by introducing the first 4K playback device supporting its newly released 84-inch LCD TV.

The new 4K Ultra HD Video Player is a hard-disk server that connects easily to Sony's matching XBR-84X900 84-inch LED LCD TV, allowing consumers to view 4K resolution movies and short-form 4K videos.

The server and 84-inch 4K Ultra HD LED LCD TV sets were scheduled to be officially unveiled and demonstrated at an invitation-only event with Sony recording artist John Legend here tonight.

Sony said it is making the device available as a bonus "loaned" - as the company put it - exclusively to U.S. customers purchasing the Sony 4K LED TV. The hard-disk server, which has been used for in-store demos of the company's flagship 4K Ultra HD TV screen, comes loaded with content, including both full-length Hollywood features and a gallery of videos, creating the first true home 4K experience, Sony said.

.... (See link for full article and list of titles.)
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