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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 156

post #4651 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Perfectly said. I have to be honest at this point my 4K panel TV purchase we were planning for our living room won't be a Sony. Fool me once... And since this news broke I have received about 70 messages from my site from other upset customers/potential customers. This is turning into a PR nightmare for them and it needs to be resolved immediately. If they wait a few months they are going to lose a lot of their customer base for the future.

No. They will not. Our numbers are tiny and we have little impact on the 4K panel market which even now far exceeds the number of 1000ES projectors sold. So you don't buy a Sony 4K panel because some ****** preloaded server content is not made available to you now instead of when the online content service is up and running. Please. Sony is not going to do anything different and 1000ES owners being pissed off will have little if any effect on Sony panel sales.
post #4652 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by catonic View Post

So the 11 films / clips they show as being available aren't actually available coolscan ?

No. They are not available until the service is officially launched. They are now not even talking to potential end user customers. All their efforts are aimed at content providers so they have something to sell or get a commission on. They appear to me to be a peanut whistle operation. Coolscan maintains their conduct is fine. They have no obligation at this point to even acknowledge potential customers. Well. They will never ever get my business.
post #4653 of 9725
Problem is who wants to watch content on a 55" or 65" TV??? If they really want to get people excited about 4K wouldn't it make sense to go after the larger screen people first? I had 13 people crammed in my theater Sunday night to watch the season premier of Dexter. It would have been a lot more beneficial to Sony and their 4K push if I would have been able to demo it for a few minutes. Maybe a couple of them would have jumped on board with getting a 4K panel.
Why did we get a 4K projector? Oh that's right, because Sony asked us to invest in 4K. Thanks for returning the favor. To the back of the line you!
post #4654 of 9725
Mark, there is no excuse for Sony on this one. This is just a poor decision on their part. And we are a small part of their business in general but I have 11 TVs in my home. I suspect many other 1000ES owners have more than a few. I am sure I will switch some out here and there with 4K panels when the prices are more reasonable. They really didn't think this through. Especially when I was told a few weeks ago this was 100% compatible with the 1000ES.
post #4655 of 9725
Mark, Sony looks plain stupid right now, that's it. Not just because of the 1000, but even panels they've already shipped need a field visit. Really? They haven't been planning/designing all this hardware for a while? My dealer needs a Sony service call to get the hubcap to work with their panel which they installed a few weeks ago, and they won't see someone for a few weeks. How many techs are running around all four corners of the country to do these updates? I hope they didn't sell any to Alaska or Hawaii or their losses will be just that much higher...

So the HE division makes an 11th hour c...block, and that makes it "explainable"? I think we all know the situation is not going to change overnight, but that doesn't mean customers can't be legitmately peeved.

- Sony sells premium priced projector and premimum priced panels marketed as 4k capable
- Sony sells a media server marketed as 4k capable
- Just don't buy them both

Dealers don't even know when the changes are inline with newly manufactured units

One could not design a more comical launch if they planned it.

The other piece is this: most people buying the 1000 are dealers most prized customers, those who spend a lot of cash. My dealer sold seven of these projectors, and they've already heard from five, all not happy. Dealers will be extremely sensitive to their top customers not being happy, and I think Sony understands this. Sony is visiting my dealer next week to explain the fiasco and (possibly) have more concrete information.

And Sony not should not be charging panel or projector owners for any updates to make their display devices compatible with their own 4k media server as well. That would be the height of hypocrisy. A 4k display and a 4k source from the same manufacturer do not work together and the consumer would have to pay to fix that?

My suggestion is everyone call Sony, get past the Phillipines and talk to US ES support and lodge your complaints, and be vocal with your dealers as well so Sony hears it from the channel too. This is the time to be a squeaky wheel, justifiably.
post #4656 of 9725
Sony provided outstanding service for its Qualia line of projectors and will likely do the same for the 4K units, however, there is little or no profit in the projector line. It is simply a prestige move to build excitement for the 4K concept. The real money is in the flat panels and that is where they will focus their initial efforts. They need ROI which comes from the flat panels.

It is no surprise that the server design requires upgrades to the other hardware, as the mechanism for content delivery was probably not a major consideration or even a consideration at all when the projector was designed. Frankly, the server design was likely done in another department.

As a former Qualia 004 owner, I suspect they will make it right even if that requires shipping the units back to their service centers. Inconvenient and a pain in the rear but that's how it goes for early adopters especially those buying before a well developed content delivery system has been implemented.
post #4657 of 9725
I'll be expressing my malcontent over 4k content to my contact at Sony tomorrow. I am livid with this. So much for my initial defense of Sony not messing up the fmp-x1 launch for us projector owners. God the damn PS4 had wanna work, but as stated already I now share the doubt expressed already. So cranky right now. All this time waiting for content patiently only for this at launch. I can just imagine the screw around with a poss HDMI input board. Mind you, I'll be giving it to my Sony contact to 'make it happen', just as they made their most senior engineer come to review the set up of my Qualia after I had it installed. I won't be beating around the bush with this one that's for sure. I'll find out what the official line is at this end about it in the next couple of days hopefully.
post #4658 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

I'll be expressing my malcontent over 4k content to my contact at Sony tomorrow. I am livid with this. So much for my initial defense of Sony not messing up the fmp-x1 launch for us projector owners. God the damn PS4 had wanna work, but as stated already I now share the doubt expressed already. So cranky right now. All this time waiting for content patiently only for this at launch. I can just imagine the screw around with a poss HDMI input board. Mind you, I'll be giving it to my Sony contact to 'make it happen', just as they made their most senior engineer come to review the set up of my Qualia after I had it installed. I won't be beating around the bush with this one that's for sure. I'll find out what the official line is at this end about it in the next couple of days hopefully.

I'm with you! I have two calls in today already and am waiting for their damage control response. biggrin.gif

I also need to update my site since the Review obviously is not happening...
post #4659 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post

Sony provided outstanding service for its Qualia line of projectors and will likely do the same for the 4K units, however, there is little or no profit in the projector line. It is simply a prestige move to build excitement for the 4K concept. The real money is in the flat panels and that is where they will focus their initial efforts. They need ROI which comes from the flat panels.

It is no surprise that the server design requires upgrades to the other hardware, as the mechanism for content delivery was probably not a major consideration or even a consideration at all when the projector was designed. Frankly, the server design was likely done in another department.

As a former Qualia 004 owner, I suspect they will make it right even if that requires shipping the units back to their service centers. Inconvenient and a pain in the rear but that's how it goes for early adopters especially those buying before a well developed content delivery system has been implemented.

I am tired when I read a product maintains little interest for a manufacturer because there is little or no profit, but it was instead done for prestige. I doubt Sony or almost any other company in today's marketplace is in a fiscally sound enough position to release a showpiece without their being a legitimate profit potential: conversely, if it sells so poorly, the market penetration is so minimal that you would generate very little mass market excitement from it. Yes, there was PR, but it was largely consumed by insiders and afficiandos like us. You could survey everyone in my state, and the impact the PR had would not be measurable statistically.

Your second point illustrates how screwed up Sony continues to be, especially after the CEO promised greater communication and cross pollination within the corporation. Imagine if Apple released a new iPod that didn't play musc from its own iTunes store and needed a fee-based hardware upgrade to get it right? At the very least, design some type of fpga to allow field software upgrading, or design the hdmi board to be unscrewed and swapped out, almost like the lamp. THINK that such a change is coming to circumvent future nonsense like this.
post #4660 of 9725
We bought an expensive 1080P projector disguised as a 4K model... Obviously Sony's thinking.
post #4661 of 9725
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm happy with my 1000ES even if it never does 4K:eek:
post #4662 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRGM1 View Post

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm happy with my 1000ES even if it never does 4K:eek:

You could have stacked two 95es for less money...
post #4663 of 9725
Well I've fired off my email to my Sony guy already while I'm on a roll. Lets see what he can get out of the HE and content division managers locally. They all have direct ties straight back to Japan.
post #4664 of 9725
I am with JoeRod on who wants to watch this stuff on a 55" or 65" TV. Are you and your guests going to sit 4 feet from the screen to see the 4k difference? I love home theater, and I love new gadgets, but I would never pay a premium for a 4k TV set.. But then again, I wouldnt really pay a premium for anything under 100" (or probably well more). I pay for a cinematic experience. 4k on a screen large enough to be a real home cinematic experience makes sense. At a VERY TINY 65", its a moot point. What a waste.....
post #4665 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by catonic View Post

So the 11 films / clips they show as being available aren't actually available coolscan ?
They are not shown as being available as Odemax isn't live yet. They probably will be available when they go live.

At least the Shot on Red titles are contenders/winners of a Red short film competition from last year.
I believe some of them are preloaded on the RedRay player together with some other content.

At least the RedRay player works on all displays including the VW1000, which is more than we can say about the Sony cookie box.

Just ignore Mark's "peanut operation" remarks about Odemax. It is something neither he or anybody else knows anything about what they will offer.
Mark is just pissed because they wont tell him "all their secrets" before they are ready to launch.
Which begs the question; Which content provider company reveal all their secrets to selected consumers before they are ready to announce their content?
Has Mark been bugging Sony (and bitching on every forum) about what Sony intend to release of 4K content on their online service outside of what they has preloaded on the server?
So why hasn't he been doing the same to Sony as he has been doing Odemax for the last six months?

And why the soft "silk gloves" remarks from Mark about the complete scramble Sony has made of the cookie box server release compare to the rants about RedRay and Odemax? Where is the comparable rage?
Afraid to step on Sony's toes but using his heels on Red and Odemax is fair game? rolleyes.gif


There wont be much 4K content on any service in the start, just like when BD and HD-DVD where launched, because there isn't much 4K content, and some of it will be up-converted including some of the ten movies preloaded on the Sony server.
Sony said some time ago they would have about hundred titles when their online service started.
What Odemax will have we (including Mark) wont know before they are active.

What we do know is that there are other 4K display manufacturers than Sony that want 4K content to show off their displays as much as Sony.
And when Sony has locked them out of their service, I will guess these other manufacturer will try to get content from some of the other Hollywood studios.
Where 4K content from the like of Warner, Universal and Fox etc. will show up we wont know before it happens.
My guess is that these other Hollywood studios don't want Sony Pictures to rule the 4K content alone.

Besides Sony and Odemax, there is both Netflix and HBO that have announced they are interested in providing 4K, and a "unknown" party which I have forgotten the name of, has also announced 4K service which I believe will be on the Roku server system.

We can "bitch and moan today" about 4K content solutions in our impatience, without knowing that maybe our questions will be answered "tomorrow". cool.gif
Edited by coolscan - 7/3/13 at 7:58am
post #4666 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I am with JoeRod on who wants to watch this stuff on a 55" or 65" TV. Are you and your guests going to sit 4 feet from the screen to see the 4k difference? I love home theater, and I love new gadgets, but I would never pay a premium for a 4k TV set.. But then again, I wouldnt really pay a premium for anything under 100" (or probably well more). I pay for a cinematic experience. 4k on a screen large enough to be a real home cinematic experience makes sense. At a VERY TINY 65", its a moot point. What a waste.....

4K on a flat panel does not do that much for me either. Now on a big screen, I am excited about that and it has me thinking "Do I want that masking system and a 1080P projector or should I skip the masking system and go 4K?"
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post #4667 of 9725
when i bought my projector there was no nothing about 4k content, just figured eventually it would get here..its a great projector and it will get here. just not right now kiddies. you all bought this thing with zero 4k content available. lets all pray to the sony god that our toys are made whole by the fall, or even christmas, but WE WANT IT NOW!
post #4668 of 9725
Just Tweet at Odemax and tell them that Sony has messed-up and now is the perfect time to launch. Maybe they hurry up. tongue.gif
post #4669 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter_29 View Post

Need some advice fellow 1000 owners... I am moving across country to Seattle and have to give up my wonderful HT room. The house I am trying to buy does not work worth a damn for my HT. My options: a small 16x16 media room. This seems like a really dumb place to fit my 1000. The living space in the home is truly awesome but has no interior walls and is filled with tons of windows. It basically has the kitchen, dining area, living room, and family room in one big open space approx 25' x 60'. I was thinking of putting a motorized Black Diamond screen in the ceiling of the living room side of the room. Are there other screen options that anyone can think of?

My living room is 16 ft deep, I have my 1000ES mounted in a closet behind the wall and a ceiling mounted motorized Stewart Vertical Masking Electrimask Classic with Studiotek 130 GS material on the other side of the room. The screen drops about 4" from the wall so my throw distance is exactly 16 ft and the picture is awesome. The screen is 115 in wide and 49 in tall so I get a 125 in diagonal for 2.35 and 100 in diagonal for 16.9. My most limiting factor was my equipment cabinet that is below the screen really limited the height of the screen along with the fact that the screen housing is 8 in tall. If you can mount in the ceiling you can gain yourself at least 8 in of screen height plus several more feet if you don't put your equipment below the screen.

Don't despair, my room size is perfect so you should be able to work with a 16 square room no problem other than you won't be able to fit the whole neighborhood in for the Superbowl!!
post #4670 of 9725
How
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Perfectly said. I have to be honest at this point my 4K panel TV purchase we were planning for our living room won't be a Sony. Fool me once... And since this news broke I have received about 70 messages from my site from other upset customers/potential customers. This is turning into a PR nightmare for them and it needs to be resolved immediately. If they wait a few months they are going to lose a lot of their customer base for the future.

Joerod, how about creating an online petition at your web site we can all sign with an attached well written letter to Sony by you. You will be our consolidated voice. The owners of the 1000s are typically Sony's best and most loyal customers especially in light of the impact us vocal 1000 owners have on the masses accepting the new 4k format. If you take this approach please be sure to mention our request for in-home hdmi modification/firmware update if needed. Sony can coordinate it state by state/region by region. I believe that's what happened with the Qualia projector.
post #4671 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

How
Joerod, how about creating an online petition at your web site we can all sign with an attached well written letter to Sony by you. You will be our consolidated voice. The owners of the 1000s are typically Sony's best and most loyal customers especially in light of the impact us vocal 1000 owners have on the masses accepting the new 4k format. If you take this approach please be sure to mention our request for in-home hdmi modification/firmware update if needed. Sony can coordinate it state by state/region by region. I believe that's what happened with the Qualia projector.

Great idea! I will get to work on it this afternoon. I like that frame of thinking. smile.gif
post #4672 of 9725
In another interesting note... I just had a phone call from an attorney saying we would have a strong case for False Advertising. His point was how many times did Sony demo the 1000ES with a 4K server device showing 4K on it? How many people purchased one because of the 4K material? Can't answer that one obviously but now Sony releases a 4K server and it is not compatible with the 1000ES? Hmmmm
post #4673 of 9725
i am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

It simply is not going to happen for a variety of reasons some of which I have disclosed. Sony will however quickly fix the panel/server compatibility issues with in home service calls for those who already have panels. You can wish it or want it for projector owners but it won't happen until the fall at the earliest, I suspect our projectors may require a modification or modifications and such could be bundled with certain potential input board revisions delaying things for longer. I just don't know and I bet Sony America doesn't know yet either. But you are whistling in the wind about getting it now. Go show em how really pissed off you are smile.gif and sell your 1000ES. Wait a minute. To watch Sony 4K content you will need a Sony 4K panel instead. Just sit closer to the screen. Wait a minute, they got you again. Wait a minute. The server is to stimulate panel sales and denying its use as long as possible to projector owners might get a few of them to buy a 4K panel. Stupid as a fox. But not you. smile.gif

I am far from angry at Sony. I love my 1000 as it is a brilliant piece of hardware. smile.gif I am also very patient and don't mind waiting until fall/early winter to fix the problem. However, they should treat us no different than panel owners. If in-home fixes are done for panels, then (if feasible) it should be done for 1000es projector owners. I rather not ship a 45 lb projector across the country. It's not like where shipping a 95es. If a 4k 60 upgrade needs shipping to Texas for an hdmi 2.0 upgrade then I can see it. I would pass on it as I only watch movies (not broadcast tv) with it, but to ship it for a mod it should do anyway (4k 24p), doesn't seem right.
post #4674 of 9725
Its not that it cannot do 4k 24p. I have a computer that outputs that resolution to it just fine. It just cannot do whatever Sony cooked up for this server's HDCP or whatever protocol.
post #4675 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Its not that it cannot do 4k 24p. I have a computer that outputs that resolution to it just fine. It just cannot do whatever Sony cooked up for this server's HDCP or whatever protocol.

What video board are you using?
post #4676 of 9725
R
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Its not that it cannot do 4k 24p. I have a computer that outputs that resolution to it just fine. It just cannot do whatever Sony cooked up for this server's HDCP or whatever protocol.

Right...so Sony needs to make the 1000 compatible with the hdcp/new protocol. The projector was advertised as a 4k unit, not that it was merely one capable of only upscaling to 4k. The manual states somewhere that it can accept a 4k 24p feed (which is within the 1.4 hdmi spec). For it not to accept this feed from Sony's OWN server and streamers is beyond forseeable and completely (and possibly legally) unacceptable. We are not asking for hdmi 2.0 functionality, we are asking for functionality that it shipped with as advertised and promised...4k 24 via hdmi 1.4. In addition, as Joerod stated above, Sony displayed this projector at shows accepting a 4k 24p signal. That does not help Sony's cause if they elect to do nothing.

The question is, do they have any legally binding disclaimers absolving them of liability for all future incompatibility issues? I would hope the present issue has nothing to do with future incompatibility as that would more apply to making it comply with the future 2.0 hdmi standard. As far as I know, Sony never promised future 2.0 upgradability...though it has been talked about and could happen.

Here we are talking about the 1000 being incompatible with the present 1.4 hdmi 4k 24 standard. To make the 1000 last minute incompatible due to protocol/hdcp issues seems like an internal decision that Sony will likely have to address.

I am confident that Sony will handle this properly.
Edited by G-Rex - 7/3/13 at 9:45am
post #4677 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

What video board are you using?

Radeon HD 7950
post #4678 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Radeon HD 7950

Thanks!!

What make and model?
post #4679 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

My living room is 16 ft deep, I have my 1000ES mounted in a closet behind the wall and a ceiling mounted motorized Stewart Vertical Masking Electrimask Classic with Studiotek 130 GS material on the other side of the room. The screen drops about 4" from the wall so my throw distance is exactly 16 ft and the picture is awesome. The screen is 115 in wide and 49 in tall so I get a 125 in diagonal for 2.35 and 100 in diagonal for 16.9. My most limiting factor was my equipment cabinet that is below the screen really limited the height of the screen along with the fact that the screen housing is 8 in tall. If you can mount in the ceiling you can gain yourself at least 8 in of screen height plus several more feet if you don't put your equipment below the screen.

Don't despair, my room size is perfect so you should be able to work with a 16 square room no problem other than you won't be able to fit the whole neighborhood in for the Superbowl!!

That is great to hear. My other conundrum is that I am going to have to get rid of my Magnepan 20.1s frown.gif and go with something smaller.

I assume your couch is against the back wall then? When you lower your screen, how high off the floor is the bottom of the screen?

There are a lot of windows in the room and I was thinking of putting a 2.35:1 Zero Edge black diamond in the room (not to mention its a very modern house and it would look really awesome).
post #4680 of 9725
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

......You can wish it or want it for projector owners but it won't happen until the fall at the earliest, I suspect our projectors may require a modification or modifications and such could be bundled with certain potential input board revisions delaying things for longer. I just don't know and I bet Sony America doesn't know yet either. .....

I join the few here who are not really that upset at not having 4K source capability right now--for there's no 4K source material to speak of, and at this stage of life having some clips to show and impress my friends doesn't seem that important.

I would be quite happy to wait until this fall/winter and have a thoroughgoing in-home upgrade to my 1000ES, e.g., board revisions, HDMI 2.0, maybe even the laser/phosphor light source to replace the lamp, etc., all for a reasonable fee. Would be like getting a new state-of-the-art top level projector. And maybe by then there would even begin to be some non-trivial 4K source material.
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