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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 165

post #4921 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Well said. I hope we hear something very soon. Like today! smile.gif

Thanks Joe, I think at this point one has to remain reasonable. Lets give Sony a chance to comment and take positive action!
post #4922 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

http://www.whathifi.com/news/sony-says-no-plans-to-bring-4k-media-player-to-uk

In better news, Sony confirmed it would offer full support to all Sony 4K TV buyers who buy first-gen 4K TVs, should there be any later changes to the 4K TV standard. The issue centres around a potential new 4K video standard, which wouldn't be compatible with existing 4K TVs' HDMI 1.4 inputs.

Gyles said: "Sony 4K sets are future-proofed. Customers are our number one priority and Sony will provide all the necessary solutions to the 4K TV owner to access future 4K content services once they start in respective TV markets."



The guy in charge of HE seems focused on these 4K TV's. i'm sure it would build confidence if he made the same statement for the projectors.

Thanks Zombie. Good to read. smile.gif
post #4923 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

My post was simple. Officially, Sony has made no statement that they acknowledge or will fix the issue. Back door winks to people are meaningless.

So, officially, Sony is not doing anything. There is not one piece of PR, one footnote, any owner communication, or attributable statement to any Sony rep that refutes that. In fact, the only thing you can find expressly omits mention of the 1000. The footnote for the fmpx-1 on their site specially only mentions two lcd panels, for example.

So that's as much as I can find regarding their intent.

The thing that can be said is that they have not issued an official statement re the 1000-ES. The lack of a statement does not mean that they are doing nothing, officially or not.
post #4924 of 9698
I have to agree with Thrang here. We all made a serious investment with Sony with the understanding we will see 4k content in the near future (Sony assured us they had plenty of 4k material and will provide us content soon).

For Sony not to come forward with a notice to current vw1000 owners with some assurance that a solution is in the works is bizarre to me. A notice from Sony could have easily been provided prior to releasing the player informing us they are working on a solution. I don't even need details of the solution. Just something that tells me they are going something to make this right.
Edited by adidino - 7/8/13 at 4:04pm
post #4925 of 9698
The release of the player etc I don't think involved the projector division. the projector ES product manager while working for Sony for quite a while is brand new to the ES division. The discount page was done by the panel division which most there not knowing anything about the 1000ES. The server activation page didn't consider activation for the 1000ES. Give Sony some time to get all parties within Sony onboard, including the Studio and then we will see a statement. I don't understand it has to be today. Its going to take some time and it needs to be done right to avoid the need for multiple statements to clear more confusion. Its Monday. It takes more authority than the product manager to make a statement at this point. Its all going to be back channel and off the record for a small bit. The fact that back channel communication and assurances has me satisfied that Sony is on top of this and that there will be a solution. These things take some time in a large organization with multiple involved parts. Just relax and give Sony some time.
post #4926 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The release of the player etc I don't think involved the projector division. the projector ES product manager while working for Sony for quite a while is brand new to the ES division. The discount page was done by the panel division which most there not knowing anything about the 1000ES. The server activation page didn't consider activation for the 1000ES. Give Sony some time to get all parties within Sony onboard, including the Studio and then we will see a statement. I don't understand it has to be today. Its going to take some time and it needs to be done right to avoid the need for multiple statements to clear more confusion. Its Monday. It takes more authority than the product manager to make a statement at this point. Its all going to be back channel and off the record for a small bit. The fact that back channel communication and assurances has me satisfied that Sony is on top of this and that there will be a solution. These things take some time in a large organization with multiple involved parts. Just relax and give Sony some time.

From the sounds of this Mark, it would appear the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing..not good news within a business like Sonys. If this carrys on, keep an eye out for more cut price buildings for sale!
post #4927 of 9698
They wish they had more prime realty skyscrapers to sell. smile.gif I think the last minute studio decision re safeguards had a lot to do with the right/left hand problems. the Stdio as the money maker is calling all the shots I suspect. The recent several rounds of layoffs dictated by the investment market also play a significant part in the failure on inta entity communication and concensus building.
post #4928 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybobjimbob View Post

From the sounds of this Mark, it would appear the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing..not good news within a business like Sonys. If this carrys on, keep an eye out for more cut price buildings for sale!
That has been the problem at Sony for decades.
What ex-CEO Howard Stringer called "Sony fiefdoms", where the different departments of Sony was more occupied in competing and sabotaging each other than competing with the competition.
Stringer managed to make the departments work together with little success but Hirai continues this work. But it is a hard subculture within Sony to break.

There is also a stock owners "rebellion" going on where they want to break up Sony and list Sony Pictures as a separate company from Sony Electronics on the stock marked, because they claim that Sony Pictures doesn't show its real value when its performance is a part of Sony.
post #4929 of 9698
"Customers are our number one priority"

Well there it is! We are good now. I was worried for a minute there that chasing their tails combating piracy in every shape and form was their #1 priority.
post #4930 of 9698
Making a profit is their number one priority. They have finally turned things around financially and they are positioned well now. I do not detect anything combative towards customers and they have certainly taken good care of their 1000ES customers.
post #4931 of 9698
That was more of a shot at the tunnel vision these companies have when it comes to "piracy prevention". NOTHING they have ever done has been successful. There are a lot of very smart "hackers" out there and it only takes them a very short time to defeat every protection that has ever been dreamed up. The companies need to face facts that they must let go of the outdated thinking that they can truly stop piracy. All the measures they take only serve to hurt the paying customers. People that want to go to the extra trouble of skirting the protection and pirating something are going to get it done. Probably makes it MORE fun because of the small challenge or the rush of "sticking it" to BIG CINEMA (tm) smile.gif.
post #4932 of 9698
Mark - Michael Lynton, who used to be the co-head of Sony Pictures was given the promotion to CEO of the Sony corporation in an effort to unify the divisions of content and electronics. The constant finger pointing at the content division of their company is ridiculous. I work for Sony Pictures all the time and they have no idea what DHCP is about. They are in charge of content creation and another division of Sony is in charge of piracy protection. Just like when I asked the head of Sony home entertainment if they re-master their 3D content for Blu-ray for smaller screens instead of projection and they couldn't answer me. They told me a different division of the company takes charge of all of those things.

Sony should be held responsible to their products and to their consumers. And you've been constantly saying that this is going to take a long time to fix while also saying that by the time we get a class action suit together this whole thing will be fixed. You're sending off mixed messages and playing defense for a giant corporate entity that needs no defense. The fact that Sony is continuing to let this product be sold when 95% of its consumers are purchasing it under false pretenses constitutes corporate irresponsibility. And I was told by numerous Sony reps and vendors that this would be compatible. I refuse to make excuses for the company as to why or how it's not compatible beyond that. I was promised something, my clients were promised something and now that just isn't true. I should have an email in my inbox already with an assurance that there is a plan in place to fix this but instead I have to come here and hear rumors from a reseller. Sorry - that's not good enough.
post #4933 of 9698
I am not a reseller of Sony. I appreciate your input re the various divisions. I until recently was working for a Sony reseller and sold many Sony projectors including many 1000ES and own one myself.

I will be upset if I cannot use the player and play back Sony 4K content but I never expected to be able to do so at product rollout. I am quite willing to give Sony some time to get its act together re the player and the 1000ES. I'd rather hear it the way it will be rather than in pieces subject to change because responses are hurried and not coordinated through all affect Sony entities. I do understand that many want an immediate official announcement that 1000ES owners will be taken care of rather than by people not employed by Sony who have been given such assurances. I expect an official statement soon
post #4934 of 9698
Over the weekend I called FMP-X1 support to find out how to connect it to my 1000ES. Since no one from "engineering" was in they gave me a ticket number to track my question. I just got a call from a Level 2 Product Specialist in the San Diego Install Call Center who told me the FMP-X1 does not work with the projector. I asked him what Sony's plans are to make the two compatible and he said all Japan told him was that they do not work together now.

I asked him to ask Japan if they were going to make the two compatible and his response was the same, that they don't work now. He would not agree to ask Japan my question. After 13 minutes of going back and fourth with the gentleman the line went dead..............

I called back on the ticket number and spoke to the same Product Specialist who apologized that the call got dropped and then told me that the problem is being evaluated.

I then asked to speak to his supervisor who added that he does not have a time frame for resolution, but hearing "resolution" did give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

I then asked him what Sony was advising customers who have the currently incompatible units, his response was you can keep them in hopes of a satisfactory resolution or you can return it until there is a resolution and then repurchase the media player at that time.
post #4935 of 9698
Same responses I was initially told. Of course since then I have been assured they are planning a workaround. Like others though until we see an official company statement I won't feel good about our 4K debacle.

FAIR 4K!!!!
post #4936 of 9698
Joe - who promised you a workaround? Please share! Culpability is half the battle here.
post #4937 of 9698
I can't at this time. I probably shouldn't be posting what is said to me which is why I want a statement like everyone else.
post #4938 of 9698
Well, I guess members who are the biggest mouthpieces for the company get promised all sorts of things with the hopes they will post that info on these forums.

Do us a favor and unless you're willing to backup your info, either in PM or in the forum don't post rumors or conjecture.
post #4939 of 9698
My 4k projector is sitting in the box waiting to be installed. I bought it for the hopes of hooking it up to the 4k server as my AV company told me that it was compatible. Today, my AV company informed me that they were on the phone with Sony, for over an hour ,and they are saying that it IS compatible and there is a work around. I wont believe it until I see it but that is what they were told.
post #4940 of 9698
okay this is getting pretty hilarious...lets summarize..sony comes out with a great projector at a great price and the first to give us nerds 4k to boot..we buy it and like it and think that hey sometime in the next few years the gods are certain to release stuff in 4k..oh boy, can't wait..wonder who will be the first player and of course we dont care if its sony or pioneer or yungfat happy4k, we will get one. wow, redrays making one..thats our baby..wait..no deal for now..hey sonys out with one but geez its got some damn problems cause they are pushing the ole envelope on this stuff to be first and they should have waited another 6 months and now the what the hell crowd is in tears and we expect all apple all the time..well if youre pissed at sony buy a different 4k playe...oops..gulp..bingo! sue pioneer, sue denon, sue everyone who isn't giving you what you want, now. sorry for this rant but i am old enough to appreciate the rapid flow of all this incredible technology and dont mind waiting for more candy. if the sony doesent ever work with my 1000 i'll buy the one that does..like we're even gonna have a bunch of fabulous films to watch in 4k for a long while. when we finally do get one that works with our machines then we can get down to the business of why arent they releasing diehard 15 in 4k dammit!..i love this hobby! oh..my money says we will all have bought the sony player by years end
post #4941 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by samalmoe View Post

okay this is getting pretty hilarious...lets summarize..sony comes out with a great projector at a great price and the first to give us nerds 4k to boot..we buy it and like it and think that hey sometime in the next few years the gods are certain to release stuff in 4k..oh boy, can't wait..wonder who will be the first player and of course we dont care if its sony or pioneer or yungfat happy4k, we will get one. wow, redrays making one..thats our baby..wait..no deal for now..hey sonys out with one but geez its got some damn problems cause they are pushing the ole envelope on this stuff to be first and they should have waited another 6 months and now the what the hell crowd is in tears and we expect all apple all the time..well if youre pissed at sony buy a different 4k playe...oops..gulp..bingo! sue pioneer, sue denon, sue everyone who isn't giving you what you want, now. sorry for this rant but i am old enough to appreciate the rapid flow of all this incredible technology and dont mind waiting for more candy. if the sony doesent ever work with my 1000 i'll buy the one that does..like we're even gonna have a bunch of fabulous films to watch in 4k for a long while. when we finally do get one that works with our machines then we can get down to the business of why arent they releasing diehard 15 in 4k dammit!..i love this hobby! oh..my money says we will all have bought the sony player by years end

Are you Mark Haflich's brother? biggrin.gif You guys sound the same.
post #4942 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheo View Post

Well, I guess members who are the biggest mouthpieces for the company get promised all sorts of things with the hopes they will post that info on these forums.

Do us a favor and unless you're willing to backup your info, either in PM or in the forum don't post rumors or conjecture.

I have always backed up everything. And I am sending PMs to a select few (you know who you are) and last I checked I am one of the few who have been fighting tooth and nail over this. But I will do you a favor and not post anymore about this subject.
post #4943 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Are you Mark Haflich's brother? biggrin.gif You guys sound the same.

Now this made me laugh! biggrin.gif
post #4944 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I have always backed up everything. And I am sending PMs to a select few (you know who you are) and last I checked I am one of the few who have been fighting tooth and nail over this. But I will do you a favor and not post anymore about this subject.

Joe, I for one, appreciate the updates. I say keep them coming. Or, if you don't want to post them publicly, I'd very much appreciate some PMs!
post #4945 of 9698
Quote:
redrays making one..thats our baby..wait..no deal for now..hey sonys out with one but geez its got some damn problems cause they are pushing the ole envelope on this stuff to be first and they should have waited another 6 months and now the what the hell crowd is in tears and we expect all apple all the time..well if youre pissed at sony buy a different 4k playe...oops..gulp..bingo! sue pioneer, sue denon, sue everyone who isn't giving you what you want, now. sorry for this rant but i am old enough to appreciate the rapid flow of all this incredible technology and dont mind waiting for more candy. if the sony doesent ever work with my 1000 i'll buy the one that does..

1) Redray isn't a company - it's the name of the product. The company who makes it is called RED. Jim Jannard is their CEO and he is known for making lots of promises years before he can deliver on them. For proof please look into the previously announced 4K laser projector. It's gotten them a very, very bad reputation in the business. This appears to be the model that Sony is copying lately.

The point is that you're not going to see a 4k media server from pioneer or LG or Sharp anytime soon - because this is principally going to be a content download service - and thus content deals have to be in place. So the fact that Sony is abandoning their own hardware is a big deal right now because they are the only game in town with the ability to distribute 4K material since they're the only electronics manufacturer with the means to also distribute content. The RedRay player ran into content distribution issues. So the Sony player is IT for right now - and the foreseeable future.

So yeah - that's a big deal when they decide to throw their 25,000 dollar 4K projector support out the window.

2) Sorry, but I think you're foolish if you think that it's as simple as purchasing another player that is compatible with the 1000es. If Sony is insisting on a different content protection scheme for their films then that means they will actively prevent all their content from being compatible with the projector (in it's current incarnation). They're going to insist that any piece of hardware that plays a Sony film will need to be mandated to use that DHCP. Otherwise why throw it on the Sony server to begin with?

So say goodbye to all library sony titles for the future because they won't play on the 1000es. I guess we need to get the "real 4K" projector when they announce it at CEDIA or whatever.

In my dealings with Sony Pictures, which is pretty much on a daily basis, they constantly talk about establishing "precedent". That means they pick one way of doing things and stick with it. So they're going to stick with this content protection scheme from here on out and this DRM is simply not compatible with your gear. So it's not a matter of which player you pick - it's about the studios themselves.

Finally, this isn't about a single server player - this is about an entire library of films. Potentially it is about multiple studios' libraries as well. The implications here are that your "4K Projector" is little more than a 4K upscaler for existing 1080p blu-rays. That's not a terrible thing - the projector produces a pretty picture for 1.8k material to be sure - but that's not what I was sold on with this piece of gear.
post #4946 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I have always backed up everything. And I am sending PMs to a select few (you know who you are) and last I checked I am one of the few who have been fighting tooth and nail over this. But I will do you a favor and not post anymore about this subject.

If only we all were included in the Joerod PM club...

Look, I appreciate that you're fighting for an answer to this same as I am but I think that Sony tends to wag the dog with certain posters on this forum, especially ones who get to test gear for free in exchange for positive reviews on this forum.

All I'm asking for is real information to work off of. Anything less is just internet speculation.
post #4947 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by samalmoe View Post

okay this is getting pretty hilarious...lets summarize..sony comes out with a great projector at a great price and the first to give us nerds 4k to boot..we buy it and like it and think that hey sometime in the next few years the gods are certain to release stuff in 4k..oh boy, can't wait..wonder who will be the first player and of course we dont care if its sony or pioneer or yungfat happy4k, we will get one. wow, redrays making one..thats our baby..wait..no deal for now..hey sonys out with one but geez its got some damn problems cause they are pushing the ole envelope on this stuff to be first and they should have waited another 6 months and now the what the hell crowd is in tears and we expect all apple all the time..well if youre pissed at sony buy a different 4k playe...oops..gulp..bingo! sue pioneer, sue denon, sue everyone who isn't giving you what you want, now. sorry for this rant but i am old enough to appreciate the rapid flow of all this incredible technology and dont mind waiting for more candy. if the sony doesent ever work with my 1000 i'll buy the one that does..like we're even gonna have a bunch of fabulous films to watch in 4k for a long while. when we finally do get one that works with our machines then we can get down to the business of why arent they releasing diehard 15 in 4k dammit!..i love this hobby! oh..my money says we will all have bought the sony player by years end

Remember, it's one oxycodone every 4-6 hours...
post #4948 of 9698
wait!!!..not 4-6 every one hour?
post #4949 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheo View Post

At NAB this year they featured the 4K TV sets with the hockey puck on display at their booth. When I was there I reached out to the head of projector services for sony to speak about the 4K server and was promised that it would indeed work with the 1000ES (as well as the other projector - the military installation model with Displayport which will actually show 60P 4K).

I own a 1000es, but I also arranged the purchase of multiple 1000es projectors for a few celebrity film enthusiasts through the Sony Cierge services and was told by reps that the upcoming server would work with the 1000ES - I wanted that assurance before I promised friends and clientele anything.

Honestly, to ask someone to pay 25,000 dollars for a projector that is "4K" (and no - upscaled 4K is NOT true 4K, anymore than converted 3D is true stereo) and then to shun that top-of-the-line gear as soon as you come out with an actual 4K product is beyond ridiculous. If Apple did anything like this people would be incensed and there would DEFINITELY be conversations about class action lawsuits going on. They've been sued for far less than this kind of behavior.

Mark, you can spin this however you want as a pragmatist and a realist but as a 1000ES owner I feel very ripped off right now. I bought that projector expecting to show 4K content on it. That's the point of spending an outrageous amount of money to be one of the first people to have a technology. And for the company who makes that projector to just ignore the significant investment I just made in their products and turn their back on me makes me never want to purchase another sony product again.

And we should stop blaming "Sony Pictures" for this - Sony is a vertically integrated company - each and every part of it has a responsibility to their consumers and should be working out solutions with the other arms of the company. Last I checked it's the Sony Corporation- a single corporate entity - not "Columbia Pictures" and "Sony Electronics". If Sony Pictures wants to change the DHCP then it's up to Sony Electronics to speak to customers about how it will impact them directly.

Bottom line: This is as shoddy a product rollout as I've ever seen from any company. They've been terrible in communicating to their consumers, their third party resellers (every one of them still insists it's compatible with the 1000es), and they've treated a customer who just dropped the price of a new car on their gear like a total sucker.

To me you hit the nail on the head. With this kind of product, I firmly believe Sony are going to have some serious 'Industry eggs' on their face. Along with those celeb film enthusiasts, I am positive there are some industry heavyweights who bought into the VW1000, looking forward to the implementation of 4K in the home theaters or screening rooms. These kind of people tend to throw their weight around in industry when a highend product fails to deliver what they are expecting from the manufacturer. I'm sure if I was currently based in LA, I'd know a few who would have no problem raising an almighty stink. I might ask Barry Diller if he bought one, he'd be the perfect candidate lol tongue.gif.

I got the expected feedback from my local contact at Sony. Same as already mentioned here, they are in the dark due the fact the FMP-X1 is a US market only device, with no plans for the rest of the world and quote locked to the US with some 'very good encryption'.
post #4950 of 9698
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheo View Post

If only we all were included in the Joerod PM club...

Look, I appreciate that you're fighting for an answer to this same as I am but I think that Sony tends to wag the dog with certain posters on this forum, especially ones who get to test gear for free in exchange for positive reviews on this forum.

All I'm asking for is real information to work off of. Anything less is just internet speculation.

Wow, your batting a 1000 today. biggrin.gif

I am not "bought" by Sony or any company. I only use one of their products right now. Yes, the 1000ES. I can't use their new 4K server so that doesn't count. I use an Oppo 103, Parasound Amps, Marantz AV8801, Duo, Darblet and currently out of all the TVs in my house only one (32") is a Sony and that is hanging on the wall of my master bathroom.
And I paid for the FMP-X1 which I have here. It was not free. I also paid for the 790 Blu ray player I reviewed. And countless other projectors from them. I buy them and then sell them so I can Review others. This is quite honestly expensive but I do it because it is my favorite hobby. I am the one making the calls trying to get to the bottom of this. They are not easily volunteering anything at this time because solid info is tough to come by. And let's call it like it is. What I have been told is from the same sources that told me 1000ES was compatible. Fool me once... Which is why I am wanting an official statement from the company. And I really have not said anything beyond what I have been posting in the PMs from a few here. They would agree! Those are rate R and not PG 13 like my posts.
biggrin.gif

Lastly, I stand 100% by my Reviews. Is the 1000ES not worthy of a positive Review? Same for the 95ES, 50ES... And 790 for the money! Though the Samsung 7500 does better 4K upscale... Anyway, thanks for making me post what I have been trying to say the past couple days.
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