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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 192

post #5731 of 9667
No I have not. Nada. Only upscaled to uhd and 4K 480i, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. But then again, I have only owned the machine for 1 1/2 years. I would have if the Redray shipped but the delay from Red continues and is now over 10 months from preorder.
post #5732 of 9667
Mark,

I remember you saying that a Radiance 4K with 2.0 outputs will cost MSRP of at least $6000. Do you still think it will, the Radiance 2041 MSRP is $3500, doesn't seem like an expensive upgrade to hdmi 2.0
post #5733 of 9667
One more q for tonight. The fmpx1 is available in Europe and the USA. Think this thing will make it to canada this year (or ever)?
post #5734 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

One has to understand what B stock is. It is other than a new machine from a manufacturer. It could be a trade show unit (a unit used at a trade show), it could be a traveling representative sample, or it could be a new unit that a customer received that had a problem early in the units life and the manufacturer took it back and gave the customer a new unit. Any B stock unit could also be a B stock due to a cosmetic flaw. Theoretically, and this is a big theoretically, a B stock unit has been restored to as new (or about as new) status. Often a unit is taken back because the customer is paranoid and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it when it gets back to the repair center. Or when the customer turned the unit upside down and shook it violently, he heard a cable wiggle inside. All the unit needed was installation of a wire tie. If there are more than a few hours on the bulb, a new bulb will be installed. But if you think a manufacturer checks out everything and every function, you are dreaming. A reported flaw is fixed, the unit is quickly checked out. It is not prepared like a NASCAR auto is on race day. You are covered because of the full warranty though. Generally, the B stock unit will have the flaw fixed. But not always. A return is poorly communicated and the unit was not repaired because the manufacturer didn't find the problem. Or the manufacturer felt the machine was within specification such as convergence. The customer sought perfection and kept returning units. Probably a B stock unit will not not be working on arrival to a customer while a new unit is perhaps more likely to be dead on arrival. There is no science that can be applied or any survey that will help you. It is basically a crap shoot with you having good odds of winning if you are shooting to get a B and save. And you are covered by a full warranty. I (retired for the most part) and most other industry professional would take a B stock from Sony over a new because of the savings involved. I do not need the new projector smell (joke, you know the new car smell).

Mark, we run an inspection on all B-stocks, before they go out the door. We connect a signal generator to them and run the test patterns. Also test all the controls. A checked off inspection sheet showing the items that are inspected is sent with each projector. Last year, between JVC and Sony, slightly less than 20% of the B-stocks did not pass our inspection. Received a B-stock VW-1000 last week that did not pass. Have to get another one for that customer. Because of this, we seldom ever have any problems with a B-stock, as long as the shipping company does not try to drop kick it. smile.gif
Edited by AV Science Sales 5 - 9/8/13 at 7:59pm
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post #5735 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

It dosnt Work with UHD/4K input, besides that, I agree

dj



BTW. Thrang

The 1000ES biggest issue IMO is this :





dj

I've got the same things on black screens. Only started noticing them a couple of months ago frown.gif
post #5736 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Mark, we run an inspection on all B-stocks, before they go out the door. We connect a signal generator to them and run the test patterns. Also test all the controls. A checked off inspection sheet showing the items that are inspected is sent with each projector. Last year, between JVC and Sony, slightly less than 20% of the B-stocks did not pass our inspection. Received a B-stock VW-1000 last week that did not pass. Have to get another one for that customer. Because of this, we seldom ever have any problems with a B-stock, as long as the shipping company does not try to drop kick it. smile.gif

Thanks for the update. This is a new check procedure evidently instituted in the last year after I left AV Science. I didn't know about it. I have revised my post. Just another reason to buy from AV Science.
Edited by mark haflich - 9/8/13 at 9:19pm
post #5737 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

One more q for tonight. The fmpx1 is available in Europe and the USA. Think this thing will make it to canada this year (or ever)?

Hi,

The FMP-X1 is NOT available in Europe AFAIK, at least not in UK.

-Stephane
post #5738 of 9667
I'm wondering how this upgrade scenario will play out locally vs the proported VW-1100 model update. I get a half a feeling, even dealing direct with Sony Business Division it may end up easier getting a VW-1100. I may have a go with them about my recent emergence of dust blobs. Who knows combined with need for the upgrade, they may do something for the way they did when the Ruby came out only 5 months after the Qualia became available locally.
post #5739 of 9667
My guess is if timing is an issue, the 1100 will be available before the upgrade. But so what. Get your 1000ES serviced and wait just a bit and get in home upgrade. Its not like either the upgrade kit for the 1000ES or the new rumored model, the 1100ES, will be available before November because of HDMI parts availability.
Edited by mark haflich - 9/9/13 at 6:10am
post #5740 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

Thanks guys. I will wade through those posts. Kinda hard to imagine something visual without seeing it. Mark, have you seen any true 4k on your 1000? Coolscan, have you?

I've seen 4k movie clips on this projector on a big 180" diagonal screen at CEDIA. I was very impressed. It made me go with the Sony over the Sim 3d Solo. The detail and clarity combo looked awesome to me - very naturally 3d-ish, while being beautiful and easy to watch. Spider-Man's textured suit was impressive. I've been chomping at the bit since. I think 4k will be another blow to current 3D tech. Check out the 84" Sony 4k TV with the 4k server at a local dealer from 5' back for a teaser. You'll likey.
post #5741 of 9667
I have seen alot of native 4K on my VW1000, but not from the Sony 4K server and that is what is asked about here. And of corse 4K looks amazing if the material is good, but so does upscaled 1080p and what I have seen so far it is not such a big difference. And the iris and motion does not work on the VW1000 with 4K native material, so let´s hope it does when we can get the HDMI 2.0 upgrade +.
post #5742 of 9667
I saw the same trailors at Cedia too. I really couldn't judge re 2K versus 4K because there were no direct a/bs 2K vs 4K.
post #5743 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

Thanks guys. I will wade through those posts. Kinda hard to imagine something visual without seeing it. Mark, have you seen any true 4k on your 1000? Coolscan, have you?

Not Mark or Coolscan

But I have seen native UHD ( 3840 x 2160P ) video from Sony´s Demo PC on mine and it looks very good, it is not night and day better then a good masteret BR upscalet, but it is visible and the bigger the Picture ( or the more you zoom in ) , the more impressive do it get, especially when you have many fine details in the Picture.





dj
post #5744 of 9667
Addino and I did a comparison of The Amazing Spiderman and Battle: Los Angles - Mastered in 4k Blu Ray on a 55" Samsung side by side with the Sony 4k server on a 55 Sony set.

At normal viewing distance there was almost no difference (putting aside color/black levels, as they were two different sets). That part was underwhelming.

We did look at some other 4k content on the Sony, and it looked better. So I think the first go-around of titles on the FMP is not terribly well-done, and even still, you are going to need BIG with reasonably close seating distances to appreciate the benefit.

Things like less compression and larger color spaces would probably be of distinct benefit.
post #5745 of 9667
Questions about audio from the new Sony FMP-X1 4K server to anyone who has one working.

The FMP-X1 server has a separate HDMI output for audio to be used as the audio input to a prepro.
When using this HDMI input are you able to select the audio codec you want to use ?

Specifically are DTS HD Master or Dolby True HD available ?

On the original Dell 4K server no audio codec was available other than 2 channel stereo as only a optical audio signal was available.
post #5746 of 9667
I had completely forgotten that I had taken these pictures of 3D crosstalk from the 1000ES ( from the "Brave" BR ) , so if it should interest anyone (I think I had been promised Z10K some, long time ago redface.gif - sorry ! ) and because there are generally too few pictures in this thread biggrin.gif

here they are:


The Picture on my neutral AT SR 0.95 gain screen, size is about 94" diagonal 16/9 ( my 2.8 gain screen was not set up at this time) :


Without glasses:



With Monster´s glasses:



With Sony´s glasses ( TDGPJ1 ):



With Xpand glasses ( 103 ) sorry, couldnt find the left :



dj
post #5747 of 9667
What 2.8 screen do you use for 3D d.j? Where did you buy it and is it any good? Price? I am looking for a 3D screen as dnp Supernova 08-85 and 3D with a SXRD projector is not a good match.
post #5748 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

What 2.8 screen do you use for 3D d.j? Where did you buy it and is it any good? Price? I am looking for a 3D screen as dnp Supernova 08-85 and 3D with a SXRD projector is not a good match.


Andreas21

Sorry, dont know its name redface.gif, I bought it from this Company: http://lissau.dk/da/ its actully very good ( consider it was not very expensive, especially compared with my purchase of Stewart studiotek & Screen Research eek.gif ), but I dont think it gives me the 2,8 gain ( more like 1.8 in my setup ), but if I should buy another, I would look after the old Da-lite 2.8 model ( i think, you have had that !? )

Im sorry, but I dont have very much experience with DNP screens, despite the fact that it is a Danish Company redface.gif

dj
post #5749 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

My guess is if timing is an issue, the 1100 will be available before the upgrade. But so what. Get your 1000ES serviced and wait just a bit and get in home upgrade. Its not like either the upgrade kit for the 1000ES or the new rumored model, the 1100ES, will be available before November because of HDMI parts availability.

Mark that's all well and good for you blokes sitting in well serviced US of A. However, I have not even a basic acknowledgement via my Sony contact locally since emailing last Fri and a follow up yesterday, that A) the upgrade kit will be available concurrently with the US or B) that it is guaranteed they will provide me or anyone else with in-home service. More importantly my 1000ES is an every night part of my viewing experience for everything shows to sport to Films. To take it down and twiddle my thumbs sitting in front of my 55" LCD is really crappy compromise. If also weigh-in servicing times in this country vs yours, I could stand being without a projector for a week or so but not weeks on end -which is a very likely comparative over here. That would just plain suck and really get under my skin. That's why a proposed straight swap over to a rumoured 1100ES is a very elegant solution in my situ.
post #5750 of 9667
this would've been a great way to introduce them to the HT market, too bad. kUH9
post #5751 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Andreas21

Sorry, dont know its name redface.gif, I bought it from this Company: http://lissau.dk/da/ its actully very good ( consider it was not very expensive, especially compared with my purchase of Stewart studiotek & Screen Research eek.gif ), but I dont think it gives me the 2,8 gain ( more like 1.8 in my setup ), but if I should buy another, I would look after the old Da-lite 2.8 model ( i think, you have had that !? )

Im sorry, but I dont have very much experience with DNP screens, despite the fact that it is a Danish Company redface.gif

dj

I have never had a high gain screen and will never concider it for 2D, but for 3D it is great for more light I think.

dnp Supernova 08.85 is almost unbelivable for 2D, and it was like getting a whole new projector when I mounted it with my VW1000. The blacklevel and dynamics of the picture is amazing, but in 3D it is to dim.
Edited by Andreas21 - 9/10/13 at 1:00am
post #5752 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I have never har a high gain screen and will not concider it for 2D, but for 3D it is great for more light i think.

dnp Supernova 08.85 is almost unbelivable for 2D, and it was like getting a whole new projector when I mounted it with my VW1000. The blacklevel and dynamics of the picture is amazing, but in 3D it is to dim.

I agree, and thats why I use 2 screens, the SR for 2D and the high gain for 3D.

How is the supernova compared to the Joe Kane screen or the Stewart 100 ? ( if you have seen them ).

dj
post #5753 of 9667
I havent seen them, but the 08-08 dnp screen gives you almost 7 times (in a lighter room, I have not measured in my batcave, but the difference is major) the contrast both on/off and ANSI so I dont think you can compare it with with the other screens you mention. It is worth testing if you like incredible deep black, dynamics and incredible 3D feeling in 2D pictures, a normal 1.0 gain white screen is not even close. But of corse it is difficult to get big enough screensamples and the screen is very expensive, but I bought a 100" for my nr 2 cinema and tested it im my nr 1 and I was sold and instantly ordered a 128" 2.35:1 for my nr 1 cinema.
post #5754 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I havent seen them, but the 08-08 dnp screen gives you almost 7 times (in a lighter room, I have not measured in my batcave, but the difference is major) the contrast both on/off and ANSI so I dont think you can compare it with with the other screens you mention. It is worth testing if you like incredible deep black, dynamics and incredible 3D feeling in 2D pictures, a normal 1.0 gain white screen is not even close. .

Did you mean to say that even in your "batcave" the difference is major in contrast between the dnp and a 1.0 gain white screen?

If so I'd wonder why. If it really is a bat cave the DNP shouldn't show any particular advantage in contrast. (A screen doesn't add contrast, and a batcave should already be controlling room reflection effects).
post #5755 of 9667
The dnp Supernova 08-85 is an optical screen and it does add contrast and ANSI contrast so what you are saying is wrong. It ads in my batcave and it is easy to see with the eyes how much I don´t know, but it is significant. And my room is a batcave with black walls and ceiling (molton) and dark gray carpet, in the pictures my capet looks light gray but it really is dark gray.
post #5756 of 9667
Andreas,

I'm not saying what you report you see on your screens is necessarily inaccurate. But a screen can only reflect back the image from a projector - it can not "add" contrast to the image coming from a projector; it can only preserve contrast. Unless there is some optical principle I'm unaware of.

In a perfect bat cave a white screen should show as much contrast as the DNP screen material. So I infer you are still getting significant enough reflection in your room that it lowers contrast on your white screen (and possibly that the slightly darker image on the DNP, making the black level lower, makes it look higher in contrast to your eyes).
post #5757 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Andreas,

I'm not saying what you report you see on your screens is necessarily inaccurate. But a screen can only reflect back the image from a projector - it can not "add" contrast to the image coming from a projector; it can only preserve contrast. Unless there is some optical principle I'm unaware of.

In a perfect bat cave a white screen should show as much contrast as the DNP screen material. So I infer you are still getting significant enough reflection in your room that it lowers contrast on your white screen (and possibly that the slightly darker image on the DNP, making the black level lower, makes it look higher in contrast to your eyes).

You are wrong. Have you seen the dnp 08-85 material?
Edited by Andreas21 - 9/10/13 at 8:44am
post #5758 of 9667
Normally if a screen has a uniform gain at all light levels, it will not affect the ultimate on/off contrast measurements. It can absorb light lowering the black level but it will also lower the white by the same percentage keeping the contrast the same. If the gain is not constant, it could say cut down the black level and yet boast the whites increasing the contrast. I don't know if this is possible but it might be and the DNP screen might do it with its multiple printed layers.
post #5759 of 9667
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Normally if a screen has a uniform gain at all light levels, it will not affect the ultimate on/off contrast measurements. It can absorb light lowering the black level but it will also lower the white by the same percentage keeping the contrast the same. If the gain is not constant, it could say cut down the black level and yet boast the whites increasing the contrast. I don't know if this is possible but it might be and the DNP screen might do it with its multiple printed layers.

I don´t know the tech, but I think what you are saying is correct that it boast the white and cut down black in the 7 different layers. And the result is better dynamics on screen and almost without artifacts, to me it is better than a 1.0 gain white screen and I would never spend so much money if it was not significantly better to me.
post #5760 of 9667
a screen can't selectively cut or boost light from the same source. this is physically impossible. how could it ever know which light to supress or boost? if you get a contrast boost it must be because it helps reject reflections from the room. (and a screen can selectively supress reflections in a room because they come from a different direction than the projected light. that's how high contrast screens works.
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