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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 213

post #6361 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post




You could also do a side by side edge blend using a blend box.

Can you tell me a little more about a blend box? I assume its very complicated or expensive or else it would be popular, since I assume that means no overlap except in the middle and you get the brightness as if both projectors were shooting a much smaller image. Way less pixel visibility as well.

And could it be done with an HTPC instead of a blend box?
post #6362 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Can you tell me a little more about a blend box? I assume its very complicated or expensive or else it would be popular, since I assume that means no overlap except in the middle and you get the brightness as if both projectors were shooting a much smaller image. Way less pixel visibility as well.

And could it be done with an HTPC instead of a blend box?

There are graphic card solutions: http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/powerdesk/edge_overlap/
I do not know anything about this product, just know that there are several options available.
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post #6363 of 9691
Time to add edge blending to the Lumagen line. smile.gif
post #6364 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Yes Sony has no problem with that.

Great -- and at 60 fps too, I assume?
post #6365 of 9691
Have to ask Sony that. Will it vertically stretch 1080p 60? Good question though I doubt there will be many anamorphic sources at that resolution and frame rate.
post #6366 of 9691
So, I'm struggling a little bit with this.

I want a Sony 1000 and upgrade it to the 1100....

I currently have an RS20 with the ISCO IIIL / Cineslide setup and a 130 inch curved 2:40/radio screen.

Is the A-Lens worth it on the 1000/1100? I have read some talk about 1.33x vs. 1.25 lenses, etc. For me, since I have a curved screen....it makes it difficult unless I get rid of the screen as well (SMX).

Help!?!
post #6367 of 9691
You don't need to change to a flat screen if you decide not to use your A lens and slide. The minor geometrical error will be off to the sides and will essentially be unnoticeable when viewing content, The issue of a 1.25 lens vs a 1.33 lens is whether you elect to use the Sony full panel aspect of 1.89 or the traditional 1.78 width. Obviously, less of a horizontal and vertical stretch is needed with the 1., a 1.25 being the correct lens, while using the 1.78 panel width on the 1.89, you would use your 1.33 lens. The main issue is how good is the lens for resolving a UHD image (its UHD rather than 4K when you use the 1.78 width). That lens is rated for 2K and not UHD or 4K. It will work OK but it won't give you anywhere near the performance of a true 4K rated A lens. One exists at 1.25,its an isco, but its MSRP is $17,400.

what would I do. I would use your Isco, operate at the normal 1.78 panel width stretching the image optically to 2.35 in the horizontal direction, and vertically stretching with the built in sony or external scaler at 1.33. Once we get UHD sources, you will need to use an external 4K scaler for the vertical stretch.
post #6368 of 9691
You're going to like the projector regardless of the setup. Buy it, and try it. My guess is that you won't need or want to use the A lens. All glass will degrade the image to some degree and it will be even more noticeable with 4k content. Much of the premium you're paying for the 1000 or 1100 is tied up in its lens.
post #6369 of 9691
Hi Ben. I think he will keep the A lens in. he already has at leat 410K or so invested in the slide lens. He has a big screen and the extra light plus his previous investment will push his weigting balance in favor of the lens. Its all a trade off. Starting from scratch probably just zoom. but if you have a large screen and the money for the 4K 1.25 Isco, I think that would present the best overall PQ particularly with a curved screen.
post #6370 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnsteph10 View Post

So, I'm struggling a little bit with this.

I want a Sony 1000 and upgrade it to the 1100....

I currently have an RS20 with the ISCO IIIL / Cineslide setup and a 130 inch curved 2:40/radio screen.

Is the A-Lens worth it on the 1000/1100? I have read some talk about 1.33x vs. 1.25 lenses, etc. For me, since I have a curved screen....it makes it difficult unless I get rid of the screen as well (SMX).

Help!?!

What is your throw distance? I assume you are talking 130" wide since that is how SMX listed their screens? I also shot you a PM. smile.gif
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post #6371 of 9691
Understood, but if 3d is not a big deal, the Sony is much much brighter than the RS20. My point was that he should try them both. He may be surprised at ge simple solution.
post #6372 of 9691
Is the offered upgrade something that Sony is going to offer for a long time? i.e. I can decide to this it a year from now, 2 years, etc? Estimated life of the offering?
post #6373 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Is the offered upgrade something that Sony is going to offer for a long time? i.e. I can decide to this it a year from now, 2 years, etc? Estimated life of the offering?

Upgrade offer ends March 31st 2014.
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post #6374 of 9691
Its an absolute no brainer to decide to get this. It would be a sign of not having a fully functioning brain to pass. You need the board up grade to preserve the resale value of it. Plus you would have a spare bulb. And could use the server and tablet. but we don't even have a start date yet, just an expires date.
post #6375 of 9691
I'd probably get the upgrade... although to be honest, the server is about 70% useless to me...I imagine the PS4 will serve the same function. The tablet is 100% worthless for my use. I have plenty of tablets at my house and doubt I would ever have a large enough downloaded 4k movie library to need the tablet for controI. I guess I could just resell it.

But hence that is why I asked how long we have to decide. If it adds no functionality that I NEED, then I would only be getting it to keep up the resale. If there were no end date, I hardly think its "not having a fully functioning brain to pass". I certainly hope a download service is not the long term future of 4k movies. So if the upgrade could just be purchased later when a 4kBD is available, and perhaps when full 18gbps HDMI chips were implemented, THAT would make more sense. Having to pay to upgrade it again if 18gbps HDMI becomes necessary later will be annoying.
post #6376 of 9691
If there is an upgrade to the 1100ES, I imagine it might be two years out, no earlier. And no offense, I knew you were thinking if one could wait long enough, maybe they would put in the faster chips. Nope. Its one size fits all and if you are getting no 4K sources anytime soon you really don't need the upgrade if you don't mind losing a lot more on resale. You really have no choice but to pay for and get the upgrade. Most of us think its a great deal, but I can understand your point. Tell you what, just consider the $2500 as the 1000ES owner's club biannual dues.
post #6377 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Its an absolute no brainer to decide to get this. It would be a sign of not having a fully functioning brain to pass. You need the board up grade to preserve the resale value of it. Plus you would have a spare bulb. And could use the server and tablet. but we don't even have a start date yet, just an expires date.

The start date is in November. Sony asked us to submit them this week, so it is getting closer. smile.gif
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post #6378 of 9691
Do you think it will be done on a first in, first served basis whatever date in November it starts. I imagine Sony will send a trained service installer to a specific area like Louisville, and do all within say 100 miles of there. What happens when someone submit as order one month after? Might have to wait quite a while. I think if one wants this, the time to tell Mike is now.

Say Mike. What info do you need if someone hasn't contacted you about this yet? If you didn't buy it from AV Science, will AV Science still handle the transaction? I assume in that case you will need the serial number as well because AV science wouldn't have it on file.
post #6379 of 9691
My dealer showed me a memo to dealers from Sony further explaining the steps in obtaining the upgrade. First step was for the dealer to purchase the upgrade package from Sony Tech Data, then call for an appointment for field service when package is received.

My dealer finally managed to purchase the upgrade package two days ago, to ship November first (ext). It was not available prior to this date.
post #6380 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Do you think it will be done on a first in, first served basis whatever date in November it starts. I imagine Sony will send a trained service installer to a specific area like Louisville, and do all within say 100 miles of there. What happens when someone submit as order one month after? Might have to wait quite a while. I think if one wants this, the time to tell Mike is now.

Say Mike. What info do you need if someone hasn't contacted you about this yet? If you didn't buy it from AV Science, will AV Science still handle the transaction? I assume in that case you will need the serial number as well because AV science wouldn't have it on file.

Good questions Mark.

To place an upgrade order, contact us and place the order. We will need the serial number of your projector. Even if you did not purchase from us, you can still go through us for the upgrade.
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post #6381 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosa View Post

My dealer showed me a memo to dealers from Sony further explaining the steps in obtaining the upgrade. First step was for the dealer to purchase the upgrade package from Sony Tech Data, then call for an appointment for field service when package is received.

My dealer finally managed to purchase the upgrade package two days ago, to ship November first (ext). It was not available prior to this date.

Correct. We ordered 30 packages. We have a few extra, but not many.
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post #6382 of 9691
I've been playing around with the FMP-X1 server for a few weeks because I purchased a 65" Sony X9 for my bedroom. I hate to say it, but I just sent the server back for a return.

In short, the quality wasn't great. Most of the 4K movies looked no different than their Blu-Ray counterparts (believe it or not, some looked worse), with the exception of Amazing Spiderman, which looked only marginally better on scenes with a lot of texture (i.e., Spidey's suit). Some of the shorts also looked decent, but not so mind-blowingly good that it would make a $500 server worth it.

Luckily, I had two X9s running side-by-side, as I also purchased a set for my parents, and was "testing" it before dropping it off at their place. On one set, I played the 4K movies on the X1, and on the other, I played a "Mastered in 4K" equivalent Blu-Ray. I asked a few people which they thought was 4K, and most couldn't tell. When you take a $35 digital download and stack it up against a $15-20 Blu-Ray with remarkably similar results, it's a hard sell. If the industry really wants 4K to take off, it'll have to do much better than what's on the X1...

As a self-confessed "videophile," I'd stick with Blu-Ray 99% of the time, if given an option, which says a lot. I'd hate to see what the "average" consumer would think.

They've also been very, very slow to add new movies to the service. As of last week, the only new release movies have been the new Evil Dead and After Earth. Evil Dead didn't look good at all, and After Earth was a crappy movie, so I didn't bother.

Another major drawback, as I mentioned above, was price. New releases are now $35 to buy, which seems to have gone up from the $30 they started with. TV episodes are a good deal though, and the first episode of Breaking Bad seemed a little sharper than my Blu-Rays, but again, not enough to warrant a full-season purchase.

The one good thing about the X1 was that it was very easy to setup. I had read horror stories about the player not working, even after the TV update, but it was smooth sailing for me. The download times weren't bad either.

Hopefully the service will come to the PS4. If it does, I might buy the occasional movie or TV show. But right now, I don't even think it's worth using an HDMI port. Oh well. Hopefully the service will improve with time.
Edited by BrianMundt - 10/19/13 at 12:13am
post #6383 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMundt View Post

I've been playing around with the FMP-X1 server for a few weeks because I purchased a 65" Sony X9 for my bedroom. I hate to say it, but I just sent the server back for a return.

In short, the quality wasn't great. Most of the 4K movies looked no different than their Blu-Ray counterparts (believe it or not, some looked worse), with the exception of Amazing Spiderman, which looked only marginally better on scenes with a lot of texture (i.e., Spidey's suit). Some of the shorts also looked decent, but not so mind-blowingly good that it would make a $500 server worth it.

Luckily, I had two X9s running side-by-side, as I also purchased a set for my parents, and was "testing" it before dropping it off at their place. On one set, I played the 4K movies on the X1, and on the other, I played a "Mastered in 4K" equivalent Blu-Ray. I asked a few people which they thought was 4K, and most couldn't tell. When you take a $35 digital download and stack it up against a $15-20 Blu-Ray with remarkably similar results, it's a hard sell. If the industry really wants 4K to take off, it'll have to do much better than what's on the X1...

As a self-confessed "videophile," I'd stick with Blu-Ray 99% of the time, if given an option, which says a lot. I'd hate to see what the "average" consumer would think.

They've also been very, very slow to add new movies to the service. As of last week, the only new release movies have been the new Evil Dead and After Earth. Evil Dead didn't look good at all, and After Earth was a crappy movie, so I didn't bother.

Another major drawback, as I mentioned above, was price. New releases are now $35 to buy, which seems to have gone up from the $30 they started with. TV episodes are a good deal though, and the first episode of Breaking Bad seemed a little sharper than my Blu-Rays, but again, not enough to warrant a full-season purchase.

The one good thing about the X1 was that it was very easy to setup. I had read horror stories about the player not working, even after the TV update, but it was smooth sailing for me. The download times weren't bad either.

Hopefully the service will come to the PS4. If it does, I might buy the occasional movie or TV show. But right now, I don't even think it's worth using an HDMI port. Oh well. Hopefully the service will improve with time.

On a large front projector setup I am sure that it will make more of a difference. Don't know how much though. As an example, pretty much everyone that has tried a Darbee on a front projector has loved the improvement. Several that have tried it on TV's have reported little improvement and returned the Darbee.
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post #6384 of 9691
By or shortly after turkey day, many of us will have had our 1000ES updated and the server installed.


My fear is that the Mastered in 4K discs and the same material on the server will not look all that different. The color space will be the same on both xyYcc (x.v. color) and both will be 8 bits. I assume the chroma sub sampling will be the same, stuff on Blurays is stored 4:2:0 and the stuff downloaded to the server at 24 is I don't know what for sure. But it ends up the same, its just partially upconverted with the Bluray player to 4:2:2? and then the projector does the rest.

So what do we get? Scaled 4K vs source pixels 4K and the Sony scaler is real good. we will have to see exactly how good it is or how bad the initial quality of 4K server offerings.

The sad part is this should be exiting yet many of us are fearful that the potential of 4K resolution with a wide color space and decent bit length will not be fulfilled. Video has been this way for a long time. Getting us the best is never a priority of the industry. Beta loses to VHS, 720p and 1080i broadcast instead of 1080p, plasma technology being abandoned, the list goes on and on. Now it really looks like we are not going to get ITU2020 any time soon if at all. But yes we will have x.v. color as a wider source and 4 times more real pixels. Sounds like a buzz kill for 4K projectors. I still love watching upscaled 1080p on a 4K display. so much better than watching a 1080p display but I am not at all exited about the server coming.

I wonder if the Sony will handle more than 8 bits at 4K 24? Obviously, HDMI 2.0 can handle that but can the projector?
post #6385 of 9691
Looking at it half full, that upscaling technology sure is impressive!

Looking at 4k content in stores, it looks strikingly good, but they're not showing the difference between upscaled and native 4k. I suspect that it would only come through in texture, and only for really sharp source (great lenses, in focus, low compression).

Going beyond 8 bits only addresses banding. It doesn't make anything else look better.
I really doubt you can see the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 at 4k. If you can, it would definitely be eliminated by a bilateral (edge preserving) filter.
Color space would make a visual difference if the content uses it.
post #6386 of 9691
I'm with Mike and still hoping that the real benefit will come through on a big screen for those of us who like to sit close.

On a different but related note, I saw Gravity in a real IMAX and was surprised to see a perceived lack of resolution in many scenes. I'm wondering if this movie was shot/created in a lower than normal resolution.
post #6387 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post

I'm with Mike and still hoping that the real benefit will come through on a big screen for those of us who like to sit close.

On a different but related note, I saw Gravity in a real IMAX and was surprised to see a perceived lack of resolution in many scenes. I'm wondering if this movie was shot/created in a lower than normal resolution.

The actors were shot at 2880 x 2160 using Arri Alexa digital cameras. Sometimes the 3d was shot using 2 cameras but very often the 2D is hand converted to 3D. A lot of CGI and animation. The resolution of shots I would guess would vary but it would be upped or downed to 2 or 4K. You can google and read about it all, how the film ewas made, the arri cameras etc.
post #6388 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The actors were shot at 2880 x 2160 using Arri Alexa digital cameras. Sometimes the 3d was shot using 2 cameras but very often the 2D is hand converted to 3D. A lot of CGI and animation. The resolution of shots I would guess would vary but it would be upped or downed to 2 or 4K. You can google and read about it all, how the film ewas made, the arri cameras etc.

I've heard that the CG scenes were mastered at 2K, which is all too common. Very, very, very few movies are actually mastered in 4K, with the exception of some Sony movies and films that have been scanned. Sometimes, making that jump from 2K to 4K can double or triple the special effects cost.

The Hobbit and Prometheus both feature effects that are only 2K.
post #6389 of 9691
4K/UHD from TV viewing distances apppears is going to be a hard sell......it will still fly slowly....sell em bigger sets and 4K source at no higher cost than BluRay1080.
post #6390 of 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

4K/UHD from TV viewing distances apppears is going to be a hard sell......it will still fly slowly....sell em bigger sets and 4K source at no higher cost than BluRay1080.

I think it's always been clear--thought not highly publicized--that 4K is only really going to meaningful for projector setups, and even those with relatively large screens and close viewing distances. For persons sitting at ~ 1.0 screen widths it will be a real advance, but this is admittedly a small minority of the general public. Since I'm in this category, though, i'm very excited by it.
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