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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 216

post #6451 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

I calibrated my VW1000 yesterday. There are a few things that I ve noticed. I calibrated with REFERENCE, GAMMA 2.4 and TEMP CUSTOM 3 (D65) as starting point.

So I first did the CONTRAST and BRIGHTNESS calibration. Not much to do about these settings. CONTRAST at MAX and BRIGHTNESS at 50 gives almost no white or black clipping isssues. Dark detail seemed not 100% perfect (I could not see bars 17 and 18 flash THAT good) so I raised the brightness to 52.

After this I did the Grayscale calibration with pretty good results as you can see. I only had to give the RED and BLUE high- and lowend values a few notches to get the result as you can see.

After this I checked the gamma with the 2.4 setting but the gamma results went up to 2.55 in some areas which will result in too much detail loss I think. So I lowered the gamma setting in the VW1000 to 2.2 which gives me a pretty flat gamma curve at approx 2.17.

After this it was time to check out the colour gamut. With the default settings there immediately was a strange thing I noticed. CYAN was WAY OFF. It was far too blue. Because the VW1000 has no CMS I had to look for a best compromiset with the HUE and COLOR settings of the VW1000. I eventually settled with HUE@47 and COLOR@65 which gives me the result as you can see in the provided gamut.

The only thing that 'concerns' me a little bit is that BLUE is too bright with these settings. I can get BLUE pefect by setting the HUE and COLOR at the default settings but like I said CYAN is then way too blue so I think this might be the best compromise.

What you guys think about it?

Grayscale_Gamma1.jpg

Color_Gamut1.jpg

Buy a Lumagen and you will get rid of the color and gamma problems, you can also use the included gammacorrectionsystem on the included CD to get better gamma. My VW1000 was almost perfect 2.4 gamma when I used the 2.4 gamma setting in Reference, but we let the Lumagen do the adjustments and set it to 2.35 as I think it is the best gamma setting for my room. But on the VW1000 you should almost get perfect primary and secondary colors with a perfect grayscale so I think you need to check again.smile.gif
Edited by Andreas21 - 10/23/13 at 8:53am
post #6452 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

Buy a Lumagen and you will get rid of the color and gamma problems, you can also juse the included gammacorrectionsystem on the included CD to get better gamma. My VW1000 was almost perfect 2.4 gamma when I jused the 2.4 gamma setting in Reference, but we let the Lumagen do the adjustments and set it to 2.35 as I think it is the best gamma setting for my room. But on the VW1000 you should almost get perfect primary and secondary colors with a perfect grayscale so I think you need to check again.smile.gif
thanks for your reply. I m waiting with the Lumagen because it is quite an investment with HDMI 2.0 around the corner.

How does the gammacorerctionsystem on the VW1000 work?
And you say I can get almost a perfect grayscale and colors with the VW1000 without the Lumagen. Is mine THAT bad in your opinion? Don t you find it strange that with the out-of-the-box settings and choosing REFERENCE gives a pretty bad CYAN (way too blue)?

If my colors are off too much, could this be caused by the lamp or the unit itself? (I hope the lamp so I can go to my dealer and see if I can arrange a new lamp)
post #6453 of 9743
Sounds like you calibrated with the auto iris engaged since you didnt clip whites even with contrast maxed. You should calibrate with the iris off.
post #6454 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

It it 100% confirmed that the vw1000-> vw1100 upgrade won t have CMS?

Unless Sony told me wrong and I doubt that. The VW1000ES, VW1000ES upgrade and the VW1100ES will not have CMS.
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post #6455 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Sounds like you calibrated with the auto iris engaged since you didnt clip whites even with contrast maxed. You should calibrate with the iris off.
No, I calibrated with the iris OFF. Do you have a VW1000? If so, put on white clipping pattern and you will see that the VW1000 does not clip at CONTRAST 100 (MAX). Don t know why this is so. The VW95 and HW50 clip from 91 and up.
post #6456 of 9743
That is weird. I have had three different 1000s, and every one of them clipped at contrast 88 and above. Oh wait....are you talking about clipping 254 and below or clipping 235? I was talking about 254.
post #6457 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

thanks for your reply. I m waiting with the Lumagen because it is quite an investment with HDMI 2.0 around the corner.

I have a like new iscan Duo that I no longer use. It would tide you over until the new standards devices are in the stores. If you're interested, PM me.
post #6458 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

thanks for your reply. I m waiting with the Lumagen because it is quite an investment with HDMI 2.0 around the corner.

How does the gammacorerctionsystem on the VW1000 work?
And you say I can get almost a perfect grayscale and colors with the VW1000 without the Lumagen. Is mine THAT bad in your opinion? Don t you find it strange that with the out-of-the-box settings and choosing REFERENCE gives a pretty bad CYAN (way too blue)?

If my colors are off too much, could this be caused by the lamp or the unit itself? (I hope the lamp so I can go to my dealer and see if I can arrange a new lamp)

It is difficult to say and I don´t calibrate myself, but my calibrator has calibrated a few VW1000 and he told me that with a "perfect" grayscale the color is almost dead on rec709. I have never used the gamma CD supplied with the Sonys the last years as I have always jused the Lumagen.

And you are right the VW1000 does not clip whites even with the contrast at max, mine shows 252 with contast at max. I usually have the contrast at 90.
Edited by Andreas21 - 10/23/13 at 8:52am
post #6459 of 9743
Try measuring the primaries using reference, rec709 d65 instead of the custom ones which are preset and adjustable. I found at ref, d65, rec 709 the primaries and secondaries were almost dead on. You can pick ap a Lumagen mini, x whatever fairly cheap because people are selling them or trading them in to get the 4K upscaling.
post #6460 of 9743
I got a dealer quote of $3500 for the 2.0 upgrade kit. Is that right? I thought the post from the Sony guy said $2500...
post #6461 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

I got a dealer quote of $3500 for the 2.0 upgrade kit. Is that right? I thought the post from the Sony guy said $2500...

Sent you a PM. smile.gif
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post #6462 of 9743
The MSRP for the kit itself including installation of the parts inside the projector by a Sony tech at your abode, is $2500. A dealer is free to charge more though I do not know why one would want to pay the dealer more since the kit can be ordered through AV Science Sales and includes the Sony tech installation. Installation does not include demounting and remounting the projector. The Sony technician will not work on the projector until it is on a work table etc. So the dealer for his $1K extra could be including demounting and remounting, recalibration, and hooking the server up and getting it working. That is not part of the Sony technician service. I have posted close to this same post over and over and over. Mookie. Order it from AV Science. Give Mike or Craig a call.
Edited by mark haflich - 10/23/13 at 12:19pm
post #6463 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

And you are right the VW1000 does not clip whites even with the contrast at max, mine shows 252 with contast at max. I usually have the contrast at 90.
???? ???? Here only 230-234 flashes..... the rest (235-253) does not!
post #6464 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Try measuring the primaries using reference, rec709 d65 instead of the custom ones which are preset and adjustable. I found at ref, d65, rec 709 the primaries and secondaries were almost dead on. You can pick ap a Lumagen mini, x whatever fairly cheap because people are selling them or trading them in to get the 4K upscaling.
will measure this tomorrow and post a color gamut tomorrow.
post #6465 of 9743
Yeah Sander your experiences model mine on the clipping. Max contrast clips below 235. If you turn on the auto iris, it doesn't clip at max contrast until the last 2-3 lines. Andreas21 must have the iris on.
post #6466 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Yeah Sander your experiences model mine on the clipping. Max contrast clips below 235. If you turn on the auto iris, it doesn't clip at max contrast until the last 2-3 lines. Andreas21 must have the iris on.
you mean max contrast clips ABOVE 235 don t you?
post #6467 of 9743
Yes sorry.
post #6468 of 9743
I hope you are aware that most modern projectors before clipping white, clip the individual color channels which changes the white balance. It is a common misconception that contrast only affects the clipping of the brightest bars in greyscale patterns. As an example, let's say you have a contrast setting where the white balance is 6500K - and the red panel is maxed out 99%, blue is maxed at 80% and green at 90%. If you now raise contrast by 5%. Red will be clipped at 100% while blue and green are can still be increased by the full amount (to 85 and 95%)-> the brightest fields in most test patterns will still be visibly different, but color balance will be off.

One should increase contrast only to the point where the color balance changes or clipping in test patterns begin. Whatever happens first determines your max contrast. Alternatively you could look at the individual color clipping and interativly adjust white point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

No, I calibrated with the iris OFF. Do you have a VW1000? If so, put on white clipping pattern and you will see that the VW1000 does not clip at CONTRAST 100 (MAX). Don t know why this is so. The VW95 and HW50 clip from 91 and up.
post #6469 of 9743
Yeah I also check the individual R G B color charts on the disc (can remember if those are on the AVS disc or Spears and Munsil). I make sure I can see each color up to whatever point I am comfortable with. Usually I calibrate to having 250+ visible.
post #6470 of 9743
thanks for your reply jojodyne. So what you are saying is that raising the contrast to a point where the white starts to clip is not the only thing you have to look at? Which pattern from the AVS709 dics do I use for checking if R G and B clip or not?
post #6471 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

thanks for your reply jojodyne. So what you are saying is that raising the contrast to a point where the white starts to clip is not the only thing you have to look at? Maybe this is the reason why the person that calibrated Marks unit lowered the contrast value even though the white did not clip. (you have to know that the VW1000 does not clip white at all, even on it s MAX (100) setting.

So am I correct that I first need to check RED, GREEN and BLUE individual and look for a contrast value where one of the 3 colors starts to clip and leave the contrast setting on that value?

Which pattern from the AVS709 dics do I use for this?
post #6472 of 9743
Well I landed my oppo 103D today. Rigged it to take place of my standalone Darblet. Works as it should. Had people over viewing material off my HTPC. So when they left I decided it was time to try the 4K pass through from PC. Sad to say no dice period. So I've eliminated the external darbee unit from my video chain, but I still cannot pass 4K thru the Oppo 103D. I'm now really questioning the $1000 I just spent to get another oppo 103 frankly. Fortunately my existing 103(replace the 83) can go along with the darbee to feed my VW95 at my cabin. So not a total time waster.
post #6473 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post


Which pattern from the AVS709 dics do I use for this?

I will try to look at the AVS disc to make sure that is the one that has these patterns. I think so, though. They are similar to the white flashing pattern for contrast except its a pattern with all red lines, all blue lines, etc.

Edit: Its under Misc Patterns on the AVS disc. Just keep going forward until you get to it. I think its the 7th pattern. It has flashing R G and B areas and starts at 229, going to 251. Some other useful patterns before it as well.
Edited by hifiaudio2 - 10/24/13 at 6:16am
post #6474 of 9743
For individual color clipping you can use basically every redscale, bluescale, greenscale testpattern. I use a pattern generator, so i do not know about the AVS709. But be aware though that you really should also check white balance and greyscale tracking. Internal color processing is very sophisticated nowadays, so even if you do not get clipping on individual colors (which is better than using greyscale patterns alone), whitepoint might still be slightly skewed if contrast is set to high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

thanks for your reply jojodyne. So what you are saying is that raising the contrast to a point where the white starts to clip is not the only thing you have to look at? Which pattern from the AVS709 dics do I use for checking if R G and B clip or not?

Edited by jojodyne - 10/24/13 at 10:12am
post #6475 of 9743
I have promised for some time to post pictures of my HT.

The link below is a virtual tour of my house and in the middle of it there are three shots of my HT. You can see the Sony VPL-vw1000ES hanging in the back. The screen is a 4 way masking Stewart, the front chairs are by Ultimate Home Entertainment, and the back row is by Irwin.

http://tour.homevisit.com/mls/71069
Edited by mark haflich - 10/25/13 at 7:06am
post #6476 of 9743
Nice house Mark, I love your lot.
post #6477 of 9743
Man, Mark... I LOVE home theater.... but I would have a hard time staying inside with that view / outdoor area.
post #6478 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRGM1 View Post

Nice house Mark, I love your lot.

Yeah it looks great, but I would not want to mow it, even with his 6' wide mower. There is a house around here that has several acres of land that they keep closely mowed, so that it is a yard and not a field. They have a guy that mows 5 days a week. By the time he finishes the yard, it is time to start again.

Mark's HT is pretty big. Back row seats eight.

Corrected seat qty. smile.gif
Edited by AV Science Sales 5 - 10/24/13 at 2:35pm
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post #6479 of 9743
Hardly use the HT when its warm outside. Mainly for sports. Last nights' world serious game. Football now on Monday and Thursday night and pretty much all day Sunday. Some hockey at night. Now's the time until mid spring and then I could just rent the HT out
Edited by mark haflich - 10/24/13 at 12:39pm
post #6480 of 9743
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Hardly use the HT when its warm outside. Mainly for sports. Last nights' world serious game. Football now on Monday and Thursday night and pretty much all day Sunday. Some hockey at night. Now's the time until mid spring and then I could just rent it out

There you go, Mark's Bed & Breakfast. smile.gif
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