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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 231

post #6901 of 9697
I can't easily find it in the thread but is there some recommended settings to start out? (Ie: pic mode, RC, dynamic iris, contrast, etc.)

Any help is much appreciated!

The difference between my RS20 and the 1000 is jaw dropping. Even my wife noticed...
post #6902 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I never had a dust blob


Sorry Thrang redface.gif , but didnt you have the green spots ? if not, sorry for the mistake, I removed you from the "list " ( not that it change anything )

dj
post #6903 of 9697
I have never had the problem either.

Regarding settings. Reference is pretty good as a starting point. default RC settings for each mode. Gamma at 2.2, Bt709. You have to set contrast and brightness yourself. Contrast probably at 90 for best grayscale tracking and brightness around 50 but it will probably need a click or two either way. For films, set to the first film mode and gamma at 2.4. Black adjust and smooth gradient don't really change things that much but you can play. For sports, motion flow at low. Dynamic iris after making other settings at low or partial whatever its called but last night for sports since my bulb is getting a little in long hours, I set DI to full. Lamp initially on low. Color correction off. I hope that covers it, I am going from memory. Sharpness at 10.
post #6904 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_hs10 View Post

What is the number to call if someone was to have dust blob problem?


I call primesupport ( wich has the service under waranty here in Europe and they have been very helpful and service-minded so far )



dj
post #6905 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Sorry Thrang redface.gif , but didnt you have the green spots ? if not, sorry for the mistake, I removed you from the "list " ( not that it change anything )

dj

I had banding issues...
post #6906 of 9697
And most were solved via firmware revisions. One minor one remains and we were hoping for a fix via the upgrade or new model but we have no info re it. Its pretty minor.
post #6907 of 9697
mine is fine so far, focus uniformity is excellent @ 3840 x 2160 PC desktop.

also the black field uniformity is better than any JVC I've seen yet. zero bright corners.
post #6908 of 9697
Quote:
mine is fine so far, focus uniformity is excellent @ 3840 x 2160 PC desktop.

also the black field uniformity is better than any JVC I've seen yet. zero bright corners.

You are styling now brother. You want to trade for a Lumis? wink.gif
post #6909 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

If you're hardcore enough you can run everything through your PC. eek.gif Cable/Satellite, Blu-ray/DVD, Video Games, and other source components via an HDMI input. It's all possible, but of course just Blu-ray/DVD content is far easier and most common.

True. You would need one hell of an HDMI input board to route all that through a PC. I don't imagine it would be super straight forward to internally route say a Sat TV signal through to allow it to be re-rendered using the MadVR filter either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

But if the 1100ES ( optical block ) is same as your 1000ES, why do you think that you are safe from them now?


dj

Not in anyway saying they are necessarily gone forever, unless Sony indicate they have overcome the issue somehow. But at least I'm starting a fresh, dust free, plus get the MB upgrade in one hit. That with essentially no downtime, bar swap over and setup is a decent outcome to me.
post #6910 of 9697
That one good rule of life to follow. Achieve more decent outcomes than arrests for indecent exposures. Just saying.
post #6911 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

True. You would need one hell of an HDMI input board to route all that through a PC. I don't imagine it would be super straight forward to internally route say a Sat TV signal through to allow it to be re-rendered using the MadVR filter either.

Sorry, but that's a wrong assumption. My HTPC has a Blu-ray optical reader and gets its HD over Ethernet from a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime external tuner for three channels of Verizon FIOS HD QAM card. That provides local and premium channels and PPV based on what I subscribe too. That covers TV, so I don't need any Satellite source anyway. There are internal tuners too, like the Ceton four channel cards. I happen to like the price, easy setup, portability, and networked nature of the HomeRun and my HTPC runs cooler and has more room inside. An HTPC obviously does games and provides all the multimedia solutions and connectivity one could want. I don't have any HDMI input at all, just Ethernet and HDMI 1.4 output. It also handles my Logitec remote administration and management of my Synology NAS device via browser. With JRiver and my media on the NAS, it supports playback of SACD and other audio, photos, home video, DVDs, BDs, ISOs, and just about anything else I throw at it. As much or more than any game console can too. It could also handle 4K if I bought a newer video card instead of using the Intel 4000HD chipset on the MB which only supports 1080p60.

Think about it, all game consoles and video processors are really just specialized computers under the covers with their code in firmware and/or IC chips. I think these ALL have there place.....

.....in my home theater.
post #6912 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I have never had the problem either.

Regarding settings. Reference is pretty good as a starting point. default RC settings for each mode. Gamma at 2.2, Bt709. You have to set contrast and brightness yourself. Contrast probably at 90 for best grayscale tracking and brightness around 50 but it will probably need a click or two either way. For films, set to the first film mode and gamma at 2.4. Black adjust and smooth gradient don't really change things that much but you can play. For sports, motion flow at low. Dynamic iris after making other settings at low or partial whatever its called but last night for sports since my bulb is getting a little in long hours, I set DI to full. Lamp initially on low. Color correction off. I hope that covers it, I am going from memory. Sharpness at 10.

This pretty much matches what I found in this review. I use Reference and BT.709 too, which is what the calibrator recommended/used. I have the same screen as the one in this review, just slightly larger. I use Gamma 2.4, contrast at 90, and set brightness based on source. With my new lamp, I'm finding that this is usually in the mid 40s. Gamma and brightness are on the Sony remote, so easy to set (I haven't programmed my Harmony yet since the PJ change). Gamma, DI, and motion flow are really up to your tastes anyway (within reason). My lamp is on low and will only set to high as the lamp ages.

I watched a recorded 720p TV show last night and found the color banding in the night sky to be very distracting, so I set the smooth gradient to high and it eliminated almost all of it. I can't say if it introduced other problems. I didn't see any new ones, but this was a 720p24 show upscaled to UHD and not the best quality source to begin with. I'll keep playing with that feature and eventually get around to calibrating the projector and then running an autocal of my Lumagen XS3D for shits and giggles. I need another 50 hours on my lamp first.
post #6913 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Sorry, but that's a wrong assumption. My HTPC has a Blu-ray optical reader and gets its HD over Ethernet from a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime external tuner for three channels of Verizon FIOS HD QAM card. That provides local and premium channels and PPV based on what I subscribe too. That covers TV, so I don't need any Satellite source anyway. There are internal tuners too, like the Ceton four channel cards. I happen to like the price, easy setup, portability, and networked nature of the HomeRun and my HTPC runs cooler and has more room inside. An HTPC obviously does games and provides all the multimedia solutions and connectivity one could want. I don't have any HDMI input at all, just Ethernet and HDMI 1.4 output. It also handles my Logitec remote administration and management of my Synology NAS device via browser. With JRiver and my media on the NAS, it supports playback of SACD and other audio, photos, home video, DVDs, BDs, ISOs, and just about anything else I throw at it. As much or more than any game console can too. It could also handle 4K if I bought a newer video card instead of using the Intel 4000HD chipset on the MB which only supports 1080p60.

Think about it, all game consoles and video processors are really just specialized computers under the covers with their code in firmware and/or IC chips. I think these ALL have there place.....

.....in my home theater.

Yeah, I'm totally following your solution to deliver DTV into the HTPC via ethernet. In the scenario I mentioned re Satellite, I'm using my very own system as the example. There is no way you can take our proprietary Pay TV via satellite provider Foxtel, which we have here and turn it PC card based. You used to but it was clamped down on years ago. We do not use the CableCard standard here at all and therefore cannot use Ceton cards as a solution. In my system for multimedia streaming, I've got a basic NAS, a Netgear Stora, which frankly I archive a lot of media to but never end up streaming from. However, on a daily basis I stream via wireless N to my router from my living room laptop off a portable USB and up to my HTPC via internet over powerline. Works flawlessly and have been doing similar now for several years, can stream pretty much any desired HD format using that set up.
post #6914 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

This pretty much matches what I found in this review. I use Reference and BT.709 too, which is what the calibrator recommended/used. I have the same screen as the one in this review, just slightly larger. I use Gamma 2.4, contrast at 90, and set brightness based on source. With my new lamp, I'm finding that this is usually in the mid 40s. Gamma and brightness are on the Sony remote, so easy to set (I haven't programmed my Harmony yet since the PJ change). Gamma, DI, and motion flow are really up to your tastes anyway (within reason). My lamp is on low and will only set to high as the lamp ages.

I watched a recorded 720p TV show last night and found the color banding in the night sky to be very distracting, so I set the smooth gradient to high and it eliminated almost all of it. I can't say if it introduced other problems. I didn't see any new ones, but this was a 720p24 show upscaled to UHD and not the best quality source to begin with. I'll keep playing with that feature and eventually get around to calibrating the projector and then running an autocal of my Lumagen XS3D for shits and giggles. I need another 50 hours on my lamp first.

Thanks Steve. I have heard that setting smooth gradient to high can eliminate certain banding issues. I think Thrang may have been the source of this advice. I haven't experienced the type of banding that this helps but agree smooth gradient doesn't seem to hurt anything so no harm leaving it on set to high I suppose. I do use gamma 2.4 for movies but 2.2 for sports etc. The new Lumagen does change my recommended RC settings though. With the Sony doing the scaling, RC is almost impossible to adjust with any correlation to PQ. So I just trust Sony's defaults for the various modes. Getting rid of the Sony scaling and eliminating its ringing is a whole new ball game and one can correlate RC settings to PQ though the controls are gentle having a fine granularity or whatever is the right word. I use R at 1 and filtering at 4.
post #6915 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

This pretty much matches what I found in this review. I use Reference and BT.709 too, which is what the calibrator recommended/used. I have the same screen as the one in this review, just slightly larger. I use Gamma 2.4, contrast at 90, and set brightness based on source. With my new lamp, I'm finding that this is usually in the mid 40s. Gamma and brightness are on the Sony remote, so easy to set (I haven't programmed my Harmony yet since the PJ change). Gamma, DI, and motion flow are really up to your tastes anyway (within reason). My lamp is on low and will only set to high as the lamp ages.

I watched a recorded 720p TV show last night and found the color banding in the night sky to be very distracting, so I set the smooth gradient to high and it eliminated almost all of it. I can't say if it introduced other problems. I didn't see any new ones, but this was a 720p24 show upscaled to UHD and not the best quality source to begin with. I'll keep playing with that feature and eventually get around to calibrating the projector and then running an autocal of my Lumagen XS3D for shits and giggles. I need another 50 hours on my lamp first.

stevenjw
I agree, the smooth gradient setting works quite good, but the higher setting, the more it softening the Picture ( its only very Little, so a good compromise IMO ) I use it at "low" for lowering the banding problem with the 8 bit colors ( takes the most visible banding away ) and the allmost invisible softening of the Picture is not a problem ( wich you can compensate for in the RC if you want - I dont ).


dj
post #6916 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Thanks Steve. I have heard that setting smooth gradient to high can eliminate certain banding issues. I think Thrang may have been the source of this advice. I haven't experienced the type of banding that this helps but agree smooth gradient doesn't seem to hurt anything so no harm leaving it on set to high I suppose. I do use gamma 2.4 for movies but 2.2 for sports etc. The new Lumagen does change my recommended RC settings though. With the Sony doing the scaling, RC is almost impossible to adjust with any correlation to PQ. So I just trust Sony's defaults for the various modes. Getting rid of the Sony scaling and eliminating its ringing is a whole new ball game and one can correlate RC settings to PQ though the controls are gentle having a fine granularity or whatever is the right word. I use R at 1 and filtering at 4.


Mark

try "Sammy´s adventure" ( in 2D, and BTW. its one off the best 3D "test" disc, I you ever go into that area wink.gif,just ask Jason smile.gif ) , there are some very bad banding (8 bit color quantization limit / error) underwater scenes (large light blue gradient areas). There you can really see how well it works.

Incidentally, smooth gradient has a small negative effect on the image, it softens the image a very little - the higher the setting, the more softening)


dj
post #6917 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

stevenjw
I agree, the smooth gradient setting works quite good, but the higher setting, the more it softening the Picture ( its only very Little, so a good compromise IMO ) I use it at "low" for lowering the banding problem with the 8 bit colors ( takes the most visible banding away ) and the allmost invisible softening of the Picture is not a problem ( wich you can compensate for in the RC if you want - I dont ).


dj

I turn it to low or off normally, but when watching this show, it was so bad that only high would remove it. I kept moving up from off to high and only high truly took care of it.

I'll have to give Sammy a view, in 3D of course and try the gradient setting again (assuming it works in 3D).
post #6918 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

If your only purpose in buying the card is video playback (no gaming) you don't have to buy a current generation card. The last 2 generations of both nvidia and AMD cards have DisplayPort 1.2 ports that support 4K @ 60p. You could pick one up one of those for a lot less than $399.

Just curious as the what cards you\d recommend on a short list that provide good value for 4K @ 60p over DP 1.2? I'm thinking of throwing one into my current HTPC for now and build another HTPC next spring/summer with HDMI 2.0 card, etc.
post #6919 of 9697
I'd check out the AMD Radeon HD 7950. It's a great card. You can get one for $250:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161420
post #6920 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

I turn it to low or off normally, but when watching this show, it was so bad that only high would remove it. I kept moving up from off to high and only high truly took care of it.

I'll have to give Sammy a view, in 3D of course and try the gradient setting again (assuming it works in 3D).


Sadly, it dosnt ( its not even in the menu then )


dj
post #6921 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If it keeps happening every 100 hours, then it means your place has to have a higher dust concentration than most everybody else.

It could also means he has more susceptible units by bad luck. I had the bad zoom motors in 2 of my units, and Sony said they had only heard of that problem one other time at the time I sent the 2nd bad one in. There isn't enough of a sample to tell for sure what is going on.

Can anybody add to Mark's post and give me more specifics into what I can do to prevent this from happening again in a fairly sealed room? My HVAC already has active dust filtering. I could blame it the first time on a lot of construction going on in the house, but I'm still paranoid about it happening again.

Just yesterday, I happen to be running a tabletop Oreck XL air purifier in there now (before I even read these new posts about dust blobs), but I figure all it is really doing is adding some Ozone to the air and not doing what I need done.
post #6922 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Mark. H. The idea is to set the black bar so that it just becomes invisible, merges into the back ground. One does not want to go further than that or you will lose back levels or bars you otherwise want. So just because you call the pattern up and don't see the bars, that doesn't mean it is set correctly. I need to raise black two clicks on the Lumagens and then crank contrast down on the Sony about 5 clicks. I think I will go back and set the contrast on the Sony at 50 and then use the Lumagen to bring up the bar and then adjust the Sony from there. But its pretty obvious it wasn't correct before. .

OK, so I've now tested this @2160p using a Klein K10-A for measurements...

With Lumagen at 0 and Sony at 50 - light output: 0.0056Y

Raise Lumagen black level to 2 in order to reveal the BTB bars - light output: 0.0067Y

Now lower the Sony to 48 to hide the BTB bars - light output: 0.0056Y

Conclusion: Even though the BTB bars are clipped @2160p, the result is the same with the Lumagen and Sony at default - black IS set correctly. No need to adjust either.

This also avoids any potential non-linearities introduced by shifting both the Lumagen and Sony black levels.
post #6923 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'd check out the AMD Radeon HD 7950. It's a great card. You can get one for $250:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161420

Thanks! Are you using this card?

I noticed that Sanderdvd over in the Sony 1000ES and HTPC at 4K thread indicated that they're having issues with this card and PJ combo. I'll follow that to see if it ends up being the card or not.
post #6924 of 9697
I'm using an nvidia GTX 690.
post #6925 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post

OK, so I've now tested this @2160p using a Klein K10-A for measurements...

With Lumagen at 0 and Sony at 50 - light output: 0.0056Y

Raise Lumagen black level to 2 in order to reveal the BTB bars - light output: 0.0067Y

Now lower the Sony to 48 to hide the BTB bars - light output: 0.0056Y

Conclusion: Even though the BTB bars are clipped @2160p, the result is the same with the Lumagen and Sony at default - black IS set correctly. No need to adjust either.

This also avoids any potential non-linearities introduced by shifting both the Lumagen and Sony black levels.

So its just dumb luck that although the black bars aren't visible they just happen to be one click up on the Sony brightness control below visibility.

Since you have the test gear and I am on the road, what happens if you click the Lumagen to minus one?
The pattern woud still look te same but it would be wrong. What would the light output be? Still 0.0056Y?
Edited by mark haflich - 11/22/13 at 2:59pm
post #6926 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

So its just dumb luck that although the black bars aren't visible they just happen to be one click up on the Sony brightness control below visibility.

Or it means that both companies have implemented their digital pathway well and that their default settings fall on the correct points.
Quote:
Since you have the test gear and I am on the road, what happens if you click the Lumagen to minus one?
The pattern woud still look te same but it would be wrong. What would the light output be? Still 0.0056Y?

Once you hit the black floor then lowering BLACK control makes no further change to the light level of black, but you will potentially start crushing the above-black detail.

There's a wrinkle in my test that I didn't check for - sometimes Contrast will interact with black. I left both the Lumagen and Sony at their defaults. It's possible that changing contrast on either might then require the black levels to be changed. If your contrast was changed from the default it might explain why you see something different.
post #6927 of 9697
So your test showing the same lumens out does not mean that the results were the same regarding crushing or not crushing the blacks. The only way to ensure not crushing is to somehow make the black bars visible (by using the Lumagen with the Sony at default 50 brightness and then adjusting the brightnesss on the Sony to make the bars just disappear. I agree that some projectors and displays have some noticeable interaction between contrast and brightness but I find hardly any on the 1000ES
Edited by mark haflich - 11/23/13 at 9:44am
post #6928 of 9697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

So your test showing the same lumens out does not mean that the results were the same regarding crushing or not crushing the blacks.

The process I outlined allows you to precisely dial in your BLACK/BRIGHTNESS settings. However, it won't stop you crushing your blacks, should you be determined to do so, by further decreasing the BLACK/BRIGHTNESS control below the correct setting.
Quote:
The only way to ensure not crushing is to somehowmake the black bars visible (by using the Lumagen with the Sony at deefault 50 brightness and then adjusting the brightnesss on the Sony to make the bats just disappear.

It's not the only way, but it's a simple way that is available to most using widely available test patterns. But that type of pattern has it's own issues, eg if the BTB bar is -2 IRE or -4 IRE because if you adjust to the point that it's *just* not visible you may still have left the points above it visible, when they shouldn't be and your black floor will be elevated slightly.

Another way is a test pattern with the discrete digital 17,18,19,20 etc steps in it and lower the BLACK level until only those steps are visible, but that's sometimes tricky as the lowest steps can be very difficult to see whether any change has occurred.

The more objective way is to put up a 0 IRE field pattern and use a light meter - raise the BLACK/BRIGHTNESS until you see the light output rise, and then lower it again to the point that lowering it one more step makes no difference - at that point adjust it back up one step and you have the correct setting. That of course requires a light meter than can read black accurately, but it also removes any doubt from the setting...

With a YCbCr feed, and the Lumagen at default and the Sony at default the BLACK level is correct - no need to change it. There is no crushing and BTB is clipped correctly.
Edited by Mark_H - 11/24/13 at 3:31am
post #6929 of 9697
Thanks Mark. Thumbs up.
post #6930 of 9697
I just read a good deep dive on the Oppo BDP-103D with tons of detail that I haven't seen in other reviews.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdfever.fr%2F2013%2F10%2F19%2Ftest-oppo-bdp-103d-darbee-edition-2%2F

It looks like they just came out with a firmware update to resolve an issue with the darbee processing:

Resolved a visible streaking issue observed on the BDP-103D player. Customers reported that after turning on the Darbee processing, they could see streaks or stripes in the background details, which became more obvious after increasing the Darbee level or switching to Full-Pop mode. This issue has been resolved in the beta release.

I'd be interested to check it out but not happy about 2 items from the report. Not passing HD audio via the HDMI in is a bit of a deal breaker. Also no 3D MVC MKV support which is kind of silly since it can play back regular 2D MKV files.

it's hard to get a read on the quality of the 4K scaling, it would be great if someone who had the lumagen and Oppo do a comparison.
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