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Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 236

post #7051 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Thanks Joe. I deleted my post calling you out for your post. smile.gif BTW Its seen not seem. Typo.

Sorry about my Type O! biggrin.gif

Another IOS 7 mishap! eek.gif
post #7052 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Had to laugh, do you really want people pointing out your typo's. smile.gif I sure don't. I have enough of my own.

Mark has a typo every other post smile.gif
post #7053 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

I'll have a closer look tonight. I did yesterday afternoon but it wasn't the right to as I wanted to make sure I'd set everything up to my prefs. I did note yesterday that Resolution control is def noticeable when using test mode on a test pattern in 4K. It seemed to expand the size of the lines in the pattern, quite subtly though as opposed to say adding sharpness. I may try out some 4K stills also as well as video to analyse 4K RC tonight.

Thanks for checking, I would think you could see it on the 4K stills if it's different than the behavior in the 1000.
post #7054 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Mark my friend - you asking someone to correct typos is like Miley Cyrus asking someone not to be inappropriate....!

ROTFLMAO! So true. Mark's a good man, but he doesn't appear to use the spellcheck feature. I guess when you post as much as he does, you need to save time somewhere. eek.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #7055 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Mark has a typo every other post smile.gif

In fact I have multiple typos in almost every post. I fix them later when I reread them and catch some of them.
post #7056 of 9658
Mark is so busy, he actually dictates to an assistant, though it seems he needs to pay for better help...

post #7057 of 9658
So when are upgrades going to start? I've been holding off on putting myself on the list just for this reason. Idk if its OCD or what but hate paying for something that don't physically have.
post #7058 of 9658
Thank you OZ:)

could you check if noise reduction is Always active as in the 500/600?
post #7059 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

So when are upgrades going to start? I've been holding off on putting myself on the list just for this reason. Idk if its OCD or what but hate paying for something that don't physically have.

AVS doesn't know when they are going to start. But normally you don't get charged until the product ships
post #7060 of 9658
Despicable Me 2 looked awesome last night. The sound was brilliant using the McIntosh 151. It was a record night here for 3D. We had 11 people (not counting me) crammed in the theater. We even used the Sony kid's 3D glasses (had to dig out batteries). Had the Darbee set at 72 like I do for sports which works very well with animated 3D. Don't pass this one up it is great eye candy and well as ear candy!

cool.gif
post #7061 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

There is no talk of RC not working with 4K sources. It s FI that is not available.

I think (but I m not sure!) that RC on the VW1000 can work in 2 different ways:

1. When you feed the VW1000 with a 2K signal RC does 2 things: upscale 2K->4K + sharpen the picture (same like what RC does on a HW50 when feeding 1080p into the HW50)

2. When you feed the VW1000 with a 4K signal RC does only sharpening.





No, Sanderdvd, the RC is not the 2-4K upscale funktion ( if you turn RC off, the projector will still upscale to either 3840x2160 or 4096x2160 depend on the setting "normal" or "1.85/2.35 zoom mode" ), the projector will allways upscale to UHD or "real" 4K to fit the panels, just like a flatpanel will. ( the 2-4K upscale chip is a separate one and is allways on )


dj
post #7062 of 9658
So then we need to find out how RC acts when feeding the VW1000 with 2K or with 4K
post #7063 of 9658
My impression is that RC is an alternate upscale + sharpening algorithm on the Sony 4k projectors. Sony marketing confuses the issue because they also use the term RC with their 2k projectors, but they just have the sharpening part of the algorithm.
post #7064 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

Just back from an early dinner commitment. Before I went out, I managed to (inside and hour and a half) both mount the 1100, adjust the basic picture and test a bit of 4K. I just wanted to provide a quick update before I stop again and into some standard viewing time. The only real news I can report thus far is that I've noticed a new addition in the RC menu. It's called RC test. Very useful addition as it adds an automatic A/B mode to RC mode for whatever RC setting levels you select. I was able to very quickly via test pattern establish that RC resolution does indeed work in 4K in the 1100/upgrade. It seems to add not necessarily desirable edge enhancement to lines on test pattern i.e. the lines appear slightly fattened/smoothed off. If I'd video'ed it up close you could easily observe this effect with the RC test mode running. Noise reduction on the other hand doesn't seem to have much that can really be discerned at any level setting. So my conclusion here is essentially R/C as predicted by others, with the 1100/upgrade, RC acts as a pretty basic sharpening function with 4K. Not sure what other features I can currently test with the new hardware and being my Sony FMP-X1 hasn't landed yet(should have ordered it before last week), there isn't much else to test hardware-wise. All other parts and functions appear identical as expected in the VW1100. If I discover anything else new I'll certainly post about it. I would go as far to say based on what I've seen, the is nothing to gain by branching into a whole separate VW1100 owners thread. Particularly given everyone here has the opp shortly to get the MB upgrade done to give us all the same functionality. Def doesn't seem like Sony has deliberately held back any info on what the 1100 would feature as a few folks were postulating. No unexpected inclusions from the VW500/600 or anything.


The incoming 1100 as it crosses paths with the outgoing 1000



The 'fair dinkum' 5 minute projector exchange (including photo opp time)



New RC menu




OzHDHT
First of all, you cant go eating ( or anything else for that matter ), when you have these two in house - we want infos, test ASO biggrin.gif so please stop your other life and go to "Work" tongue.gif

thanks for you first postings, BTW the RC menu you show with the RC on/off test, I have that too in my 1000ES, here all it do it toogle the RC on /off repeatently to show the effect it do - but you cant adjust with it ongoing ( sadly, would make it easyer ), you have to go out of it and in the adjustning menu and then back to see the effect.

Could you test if the FI Works with UHD material ?
TIA

dj
post #7065 of 9658
Do they have an A/B test built in for the 4K upconversion, so you can see the difference between 1080p and their 4K upconversion?
post #7066 of 9658
I'm new to this thread but am getting the 1100ES next month(at least my installer has scheduled a mid-December installation wink.gif). Does anyone know of a source for the RS232 codes (I would assume they are the same as for the 1000ES)? I'm trying to do some advance programming for my URC remote control and cannot find them in Universal's data base. Thanks for any input.
post #7067 of 9658
RC acts on the upscaled by the projector to UHD or 4K or a native or upscaled earlier in the chain to UHD or 4K. The differences we see are effects we see on the quality of the upscaling. The Sony scaling and almost all other scalars ring and the RC acts on the ringing as well as the portions of the frame without ringing artifacts. With the Lumagenand its ring free scaling it is much easier to see how the RC acts with respect to the entire image and adjust it so that it itself doesn't cause artifacts.
post #7068 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by aligborat View Post

Do they have an A/B test built in for the 4K upconversion, so you can see the difference between 1080p and their 4K upconversion?




no


And you cant see native ( 1:1 ) 1080p on the projector, it is allways upscalet to either 3840x2160 ( 4:1 ) or 4096x2160


dj
post #7069 of 9658
Very interesting Mark.
Do you think that for a full 4k lumagen it will take one more year?

Concerning video noise due to 1080 upscaling to uhd/4k,
without a lumagen is it too evident?
The Sony noise reduction is enough effective?
I am deciding for a 1100 but I am concerned about
video noise And the hdmi 2.0 not fully implemented..
I think forthcoming 4k blurays will be more than 4:2:0 at 8 bits and rec 2020 compliant..
what do you think Mark?
post #7070 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

Very interesting Mark.
Do you think that for a full 4k lumagen it will take one more year?

Concerning video noise due to 1080 upscaling to uhd/4k,
without a lumagen is it too evident?
The Sony noise reduction is enough effective?
I am deciding for a 1100 but I am concerned about
video noise And the hdmi 2.0 not fully implemented..
I think forthcoming 4k blurays will be more than 4:2:0 at 8 bits and rec 2020 compliant..
what do you think Mark?



Not Mark, but Im pretty sure, that its sadly going to take really really long time, if ever, before we see something compliant to REC2020 ( exspecially if 10 or 12 bit color and 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 at 50/60P or 100/120P Fps )

dj
post #7071 of 9658
Maybe not rec 2020 d.j. but don't think 4:2:0 at 8 bits will be enough for 4k blurays (and sky uhd?)
post #7072 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

OzHDHT
First of all, you cant go eating ( or anything else for that matter ), when you have these two in house - we want infos, test ASO biggrin.gif so please stop your other life and go to "Work" tongue.gif

thanks for you first postings, BTW the RC menu you show with the RC on/off test, I have that too in my 1000ES, here all it do it toogle the RC on /off repeatently to show the effect it do - but you cant adjust with it ongoing ( sadly, would make it easyer ), you have to go out of it and in the adjustning menu and then back to see the effect.

Could you test if the FI Works with UHD material ?
TIA

dj

It's always the way I tell you... I have mostly quiet weeknights with zero commitments. VW1100 arrives the day that I have to take visiting colleagues for dinner rolleyes.gif. Otherwise it would have been a full night of testing, mind you I was back at it by 9:30pm lol. I had yet another commitment last night similarly, thankfully that concluded by 9.

I didn't do any 4K testing last night as I hadn't had the chance to first try some bluray material with it. Anecdotally, RC resolution does appear to be less edge enhancing than previously. I found it quite tolerable even on the 1100's REF mode setting of 30. For the moment with bluray material I've settled on 20. For 720p material via HTPC, I have pull it back to about 10, due to source quality.

With the new R/C function auto A/B function it's a heck of a lot easier to not have to make sure the remote is obeying your command to manually A/B it, allowing you to focus solely at any particular part of the screen you want to examine. I did this last night to test the mastered in 4K mode R/C with the Amazing Spiderman Bluray. Very interesting to see it function. While you can also see an effect if you try it on other material, whatever the algorithm is, it does seems to work pretty well with the 'Mastered' titles. I attempted to take a fairly basic shot of the effect, close up to demonstrate. The vertical banding is a camera artifact, so please disregard. On the weekend I should have time to setup an SLR on a tripod to get far better shots. But in the interest of avail time last night, I was able to take these shots. Sorry, I realised I didn't take a wide shot of this still, but it's the scene where Spidey is on the rooftop taking a call from Aunt May to do the groceries on the way home. This is the building in the background upper right side of screen. Pay note to the building's surface around the black windows below the 100. The effect is more pronounced to the human eye than can be seen in these shots. It's very easy to see a smoothing effect on the number 100 with the naked eye. As mentioned I will see if I can get some better shots of this and R/C mode generally to compare.



No MI4K, RC @ 30:






RC + MI4K on:



Edited by OzHDHT - 11/28/13 at 4:13pm
post #7073 of 9658
Just got the projector from a science. Great job. Gotit on Wednesday and put it up on the shelf. Have a vutec AT. 110 INCH WIDE 2.35:1 screen. Watched man of steel on 3d and I couldn't stop grinning.

I am unable to get the projector to do full 2.35:1 and fill the screen. I played with Zoom, focus and position. I played with the aspect raion but it doesn't want to fill the screen it looks like the projector thinks I have a smaller screen. Any suggestions?


Thank you
post #7074 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by robmarti@tampa View Post

Just got the projector from a science. Great job. Gotit on Wednesday and put it up on the shelf. Have a vutec AT. 110 INCH WIDE 2.35:1 screen. Watched man of steel on 3d and I couldn't stop grinning.

I am unable to get the projector to do full 2.35:1 and fill the screen. I played with Zoom, focus and position. I played with the aspect raion but it doesn't want to fill the screen it looks like the projector thinks I have a smaller screen. Any suggestions?


Thank you
What is your source? If it's a PC, it might have to do with your graphics card settings.
You could also try resetting your projector settings to factory default, in case something weird is set.
post #7075 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by robmarti@tampa View Post

Just got the projector from a science. Great job. Gotit on Wednesday and put it up on the shelf. Have a vutec AT. 110 INCH WIDE 2.35:1 screen. Watched man of steel on 3d and I couldn't stop grinning.

I am unable to get the projector to do full 2.35:1 and fill the screen. I played with Zoom, focus and position. I played with the aspect raion but it doesn't want to fill the screen it looks like the projector thinks I have a smaller screen. Any suggestions?


Thank you

Basic question, but is the projector setup at the correct throw distance for your 2:35 screen? Should be given you have reasonable 110" for a 2:35.

You should be able to go straight into zoom and and set the 2:35 (assuming you have already created a 2:35 sized image with the built in test pattern and saved it to the 2:35 position placeholder), so you can easily switch back and forth between it and any other screen sizes you've memorised. The 1000 doesn't do any screen-size 'thinking', it relies on the user to dial in and set all of the screen sizes into memory. If you are by chance talking about the appearance of small black bars with 2:35 you can also manually set 2:35 Zoom mode in the menu that should eliminate what's left of black bars.
Edited by OzHDHT - 11/28/13 at 10:17pm
post #7076 of 9658
Please measure and state your throw distance.
post #7077 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Downloaded it, but will need to get my HTPC up and working again and then slap in the new video card and get that working before I can view any 4K@24p. I'll certainly check this one out based off your recommendation.

I got the HTPC working again. I had an issue with the power switch stopping it from powering up and then a bad 250GB HDD that was used for backup. I fixed everything and added the 750W PSU, new 120Gb SSD (both on BF sales at Amazon), and the MSI Radeon R9 290. I plugged it directly into the Sony on HDMI 2 port, loaded the latest drivers, updated MC19 to use 4K, and proceeded to view some very nice 4K clips and trailers with the family before watching a BD. Everyone was in awe at the beautiful resolution and PQ of the Sony. My wife wanted to know if BDs were going to look like what she was seeing. I just smiled and said, "soon, soon."

Looking forward to the MB upgrade and 4K puck player to show her a full length 4K movie.

....and maybe a 4K PC game next too. biggrin.gif
post #7078 of 9658
My source is the PS3 and verizon FIOS so far. I have not tried a PC yet. My throw distance from projector to screen is 18 feet 2 inches. The sceen is 110 left to right and not diagonal. I cannot play with it right now but will be back home in a few hours.

Maybe I need to reset the projector. When using the shift and zoom function it stays in 1.85 mode it never is stretched to 2.35 mode. Also, under the position button there is a 1.85 and 2.35 preset already there but when and click on those it doesnt appear to do anything?

Any other specs about setup needed? Suggestions?

thanks again.
post #7079 of 9658
Rob. I have to go out this afternoon. I or others will walk you through set up for a 2.35 screen later.
post #7080 of 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by robmarti@tampa View Post

My source is the PS3 and verizon FIOS so far. I have not tried a PC yet. My throw distance from projector to screen is 18 feet 2 inches. The sceen is 110 left to right and not diagonal. I cannot play with it right now but will be back home in a few hours.

Maybe I need to reset the projector. When using the shift and zoom function it stays in 1.85 mode it never is stretched to 2.35 mode. Also, under the position button there is a 1.85 and 2.35 preset already there but when and click on those it doesnt appear to do anything?

Any other specs about setup needed? Suggestions?

thanks again.



I think you understand it wrong smile.gif - the projector will not "stretch" the Picture. ( the only difference between showing a 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 movie, is the setting on the projectors zoom and shift

- with a 1.85:1 Picture you will zoom the Picture in to fill top and bottom and there will be Black bars ad each side on screen ( unless you have masking ? ), then memories the setting in a preset ( etc. "1" )

- with a 2.35:1 Picture you will zoom the Picture out to fill top and bottom Again and the will be allmost no Black bars and the will be out on the frame off the screen ( not seen ), then memories the setting in a preset ( etc. "2" ) and the projector

Now everytime you see a 1.85:1 movie - hit the preset 1 , and the projector will fit the Picture correct in size
Now everytime you see a 2.35:1 movie - hit the preset 2 , and the projector will fit the Picture correct in size

or:

Try with the PS3 ( all scaling "off" in it ), set a 2.35:1 ( 2.40:1 ) BR movie in it ( like "Cars" or something ), get the film running.
Set the projectors mode to "normal"
Now zoom the Picture out /in til it fits the screen ( some small Black bars at left and right should be out of the screen and on the Black frame frame of the screen - you shouldnt could see them )
Done

If that dosnt do it, could you please take a Photo of the Picture on screen to show what it looks like , to better see what goes wrong.

dj
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