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Behringer iNuke NU3000 first impressions (I need replacement fan suggestions!) - Page 3

post #61 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

He is asking if you are just testing the driver alone or do you have a box built already.

Also, the Denon "sub pre out" should have enough voltage to driver the 3000 to clipping.

FWIW, I had the exact some "WTF" moment with my first subwoofer design. I installed my IB array (4 x 18" woofers), connected everything (EP2500 to a pioneer AVR), turned it on and was extremely disappointed Not matter what volume level, Trim settings +12, LFE setting +10, etc. I couldn't get output. I bought the Art Cleanbox and that solved my issue but the ART Cleanbox has a SSF @ 18Hz (No good for 10Hz performance requirements) so I found a Samson S-convert which didnt have any SSF.

Sometimes there is a requirement to increase the voltage going into the amp. Before you buy something though, check all dip switches, check cables, etc.

Thanks for the explanation. Yes, the driver is already installed on the enclosure. I will double cbeck cabling again. The inuke 3000 dsp does not have dip switches. I found an used Samson for $49. I bought it. Seller has 7 day return policy. So thats a relief if im able to figure it out what is going on. My denon has two outputs; I will try it in the other one just in case. I will keep reading this thread every second if possible. Thanks to all. Lets me try that test first.
post #62 of 182
I tried the other sub output but same results. When I raised volume on receiver pretty loud (around +2db, or 85 db) I was able to hear the sub but not as loud as it should be. The PL200 still sounds louder, but in terms of quality I noticed a great difference. The diy sub sounds lots better in terms of quality. Now I can noticed the difference in a cheapo sub and a higher quality sub.

The softness and low volume on sub still worrying me. I have to work today; so tomorrow I will continue the tests. I will add polyfill and recheck all cabling.

I connected the inuke on the pc and setup 4 ohms and tried bridge vs stereo mode and loudness are the same. I see no difference between bridge mode and Stereo/Dual Mode in terms of power; and its supposed on bridge 1500w rms @ 4ohm while stereo/dual 880w @ 4ohm.

Not sure if speakon wiring needs to be different on bridge than in stereo/ dual mode setting because back on the inuke the diagram says "bridge +1 pos, +2 neg"; while channel a or b says "+1 pos, -1 neg". My speakon cables are wired as +1 pos, -1 neg.

If that is the issue then how can I wire then to test bridge mode? All I have to do is leaving the red wire in +1 pos, and move the black cable to +2 pos pole?? The speakon has 4 poles (+1, -1, +2, -2)
post #63 of 182
Question answered!!.. Thanks to all! During my break I wired the Speakon to be use in Bridge Mode at Inuke. Now I was able to feel the bass; deep bass; but not tight!... What can I do to get a tighter bass? Probably I have to do some EQs on DSP but I have to learn it how to use it. So; right now the 3000 DSP in Bridge mode performs pretty well on my 4ohm speaker. I have to sell the 3000 DSP Model as soon as I can get the 6000 DSP Model to power the two 4 ohm subs; currently I have one now and will buy another driver in the near future; or replace my 4 ohm driver and get a 2ohm driver with tighter response. Opinions please!
post #64 of 182
Any additional updates? Is the amp working correctly? Did the DSP EQ fix the 50hz? I am looking at this amp for dts-10... I'm not an amp guy, but the capability of the built in EQ would address concerns with this speaker for my home theater.
Jim
post #65 of 182
the only hold up issue for you as a DTS-10 owner is how low the inuke amp goes...Some amps really fall off at about 20hz and below and that unfortunately is difficult to determine without precision measuring equipment that most of us will never own! I can assure you it is powerful enough to handle your DTS-10. In fact you may be fine with a Inuke DSP 1000, since the DTS-10 has a very high sensitivity rating, but since the DSP 3000 is only about $360 shipped if you look around for coupon codes from guitar center --- it's probably reasonable to just go that route and ensure you have all the power you could possibly need. I've offered my amp up in the amp testing thread and offered to pay for shipping both ways to let my DSP 3000 amp be tested officially - but no word quite yet.
post #66 of 182
Would you expect different performance than the ep2500 or ep4000 with the below 20 hz? It seems like that is what most use with the dst-10 Will the EQ on the inuke 3000dsp work for what I was speaking about?
Thanks,
Jim
post #67 of 182
Unknown to at what, if any, frequency the Inuke rolls off at. Absolutely the DSP built into the Inukes would be sufficient for eq. It allows for 8 bands per channel and the frequency is completely selectable on all eight bands.
post #68 of 182
My Behringer EP2500 was thumping all night long at a wedding. I thinking of grabbing an Inuke 3000 if it can perform like those amps
post #69 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Unknown to at what, if any, frequency the Inuke rolls off at. Absolutely the DSP built into the Inukes would be sufficient for eq. It allows for 8 bands per channel and the frequency is completely selectable on all eight bands.

Can you do the parallel input like w/ the 2500/4000 and can the 8 filters be set to both channels easily enough? Also does the program it comes with measure room response or do you still nerd rew for that? If so, is there plans to include the Inuke series in rew?
post #70 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Can you do the parallel input like w/ the 2500/4000 and can the 8 filters be set to both channels easily enough? Also does the program it comes with measure room response or do you still nerd rew for that? If so, is there plans to include the Inuke series in rew?

yes, yes, no, unknown.
post #71 of 182
Can someone with this amp tell me if it has universal input voltage (110-240v)?

Thanks for your help.
post #72 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjppop View Post

Can someone with this amp tell me if it has universal input voltage (110-240v)?

Thanks for your help.

Does not
post #73 of 182
I was able to play with the 3000dsp this morning. It is my first experience with a dedicated amp and EQ. The software that downloads for this is great. Great graphical interface. It made me think through why or why not to set something. It was also very easy to see which mode was most effective. I thought I wired for bridge, but it was easy to see that something was wrong.
post #74 of 182
so, how does this compare to the similarly sized Peavey IPR?
post #75 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

so, how does this compare to the similarly sized Peavey IPR?

Peavey will say much better. Without some independant testing it's a crap shoot. I've offered the DIY amp guys to test my DSP 3000, and even offered to pay shipping both ways, but no response yet. The offer doesn't stand for anyone -- it'd have to be someone with the proven hardware and experience to do some legit independant tests with dummy loads --- which limits the capable audience to only a couple folk on these boards.
post #76 of 182
It's too bad there is such a difference in price...but then, one company had to spend the $$$ to engineer the product, and the other one only had to REVERSE engineer
post #77 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

It's too bad there is such a difference in price...but then, one company had to spend the $$$ to engineer the product, and the other one only had to REVERSE engineer

Is there some actual evidence that it's a clone of the Peavey, down to a reasonable component level?

If you've actually done any reverse engineering, it's not all that easy and would be easier in most cases to design from scratch. There is no earth shattering new technology or application here.
post #78 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Is there some actual evidence that it's a clone of the Peavey, down to a reasonable component level?

If you've actually done any reverse engineering, it's not all that easy and would be easier in most cases to design from scratch. There is no earth shattering new technology or application here.

I haven't heard that the iNuke series is a clone of the IPR series. It could be, but that is news to me. It is definitely a direct competitor.

If anybody thinks there isn't reverse engineered technology in the Peavey's they are nuts.
post #79 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

I haven't heard that the iNuke series is a clone of the IPR series. It could be, but that is news to me. It is definitely a direct competitor.

If anybody thinks there isn't reverse engineered technology in the Peavey's they are nuts.

I had not seen anything either, hence why I asked. If it is a rip-off then that is it should be known, but if it is not, it should simply be allowed to compete on it's merit.
post #80 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

If anybody thinks there isn't reverse engineered technology in the Peavey's they are nuts.

"in" the Peavey's, or did you really mean "of"?
post #81 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I had not seen anything either, hence why I asked. If it is a rip-off then that is it should be known, but if it is not, it should simply be allowed to compete on it's merit.

I have nothing to offer other than a reputation, and suspicious timing. I have a friend in the audio retail business that has given me a hard time for even owning one item from that manufacturer starting with a B...notorious is an understatement. Most on this message board (including myself for the most part) see the products as a good value, nothing more or less.

There was a very long thread here a year or so back with a bunch of posts by one of the engineers that designed the IPR series. It was very interesting to me and made me WANT to give them the business. A few well respected names on this board tried some of the early product and had great things to say. There were some comments made towards the end of that thread about the other mfg. working on the reverse engineer, but I can't back that up as fact.

Now that the INUKE's are out, and at a lower price level, we don't hear much about the IPR series which I think is too bad.
post #82 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

I have nothing to offer other than a reputation, and suspicious timing. I have a friend in the audio retail business that has given me a hard time for even owning one item from that manufacturer starting with a B...notorious is an understatement. Most on this message board (including myself for the most part) see the products as a good value, nothing more or less.

There was a very long thread here a year or so back with a bunch of posts by one of the engineers that designed the IPR series. It was very interesting to me and made me WANT to give them the business. A few well respected names on this board tried some of the early product and had great things to say. Now that the INUKE's are out, and at a lower price level, we don't hear much about the IPR series which I think is too bad.


It isn't completely reverse engineered because the Inuke seemingly has a much better DSP interface --- that was a strong consideration for me in addition to the roughly $200 cheaper price. I got my Inuke DSP 3000 for $360 shipped from guitar center with a ordinary and common 15% off coupon for labor day. I like the looks of the IPR better and I read that same thread with the IPR engineer who was involved in the design of the IPR technology in that amp. He did make a strong case, but ultimately 50% more price and potentially less DSP technology/ease of use makes a tough sell --- ESPECIALLY if the Inuke's hold up under testing like the IPRs did. I hope one can be tested soon. Mine seems plenty powerful enough, but I only have ported subs -- so I don't know how they do below 15 or 20hz which I know is utterly important to some round here.
post #83 of 182
the attraction for me of either, is quiet power, without too much heat created, and space savings. Don't care about the light weight. My EP2500 delivers the goods output wise but the power consumption and heat generated even at idle is rediculous. For those folks with a rack of amps in warmer climates, that like to leave them on and "at the ready" all the time...I can't imagine converting that much electricity to heat just to have to pay more $$ to remove it again via the home's air conditioner. But then, I suppose if one can afoard a rack of amps and and rows of speakers, utility cost is the least of concerns.
post #84 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"in" the Peavey's, or did you really mean "of"?

I meant "in". Everything is somehow a derivative of prior technology. Now, if by reverse engineering you mean something like the LG clones, then that is different. In that case, they literally made as close a copy as they possibly could aside from parts quality. Maybe Behringer did that, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that.

I also think it would have required something along the lines of outright corporate espionage to have copied a design that quickly. The IPR hasn't been available long enough for Behringer to have copied, designed and manufactured their own clones or near-clones.

I do agree that Behringer is of marginal quality. If I had to stake my professional reputation on the reliability of an amp or DSP, they would be a last resort. For home use where reliability is not as vital, Behringer products can work well.
post #85 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

I have nothing to offer other than a reputation, and suspicious timing.

So you have nothing to offer but wild assed guesses and insinuation.

Considering that by far most of the devices they manufacture are not rip offs, they obviously have their own engineering staff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

I have a friend in the audio retail business that has given me a hard time for even owning one item from that manufacturer starting with a B...notorious is an understatement.

So what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

There was a very long thread here a year or so back with a bunch of posts by one of the engineers that designed the IPR series. It was very interesting to me and made me WANT to give them the business. A few well respected names on this board tried some of the early product and had great things to say. There were some comments made towards the end of that thread about the other mfg. working on the reverse engineer, but I can't back that up as fact.

I read it from the start, and IIRC there was no evidence at all.
Considering how easy it is for a competent engineer to design a switching amplifier and SMPS, there would be no reason to copy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

Now that the INUKE's are out, and at a lower price level, we don't hear much about the IPR series which I think is too bad.

Actually, supply seems to be the issue. People don't tend to get much interest or discussion going on a product that can't be bought easily.

Behringer had a rep for cloning a long time ago, but I don't see it today, so it's not fair to bash based upon that, with no evidence of current misdoings.
post #86 of 182
the 1600 and 3000 IPR have been widely available for quite a while now. I'm not sure what happened with the 6000.
post #87 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Considering how easy it is for a competent engineer to design a switching amplifier and SMPS, there would be no reason to copy it.

If it's that easy why aren't there a lot more of them?

To my knowledge, not one receiver or multichannel amp uses them, and the benefits are huge.
post #88 of 182
The Panasonic SA-XR series and I believe some Sony (S-Master??) do. May be others...Pioneer switching amps in some receivers but perhaps with conventional PS.
post #89 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

If it's that easy why aren't there a lot more of them?

To my knowledge, not one receiver or multichannel amp uses them, and the benefits are huge.

Huge? How so for home use?

The weight saving of a SMPS over an iron mains freq PS is irrelevant for home (except maybe shipping) and the cost differences may sway the decision.

The only other advantage switching amps have is some efficiency and again that way be offset completely by cost considerations (engineering/cost tradeoff in design) as well as EMI compliance. In this latter, AB1 would be a doddle to get passed compared to some switching designs, and non compliance means it can't be sold in a lot (most) markets.

Chipsets, switching devices, data and appnote are freely available from many of the semiconductor manufacturers for both SMPS and switching amps, as well as support for large customers.

As to 'why' exactly, I'm not privy to the budget considerations of any large manufacturers, so my comments are technical only.
post #90 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

If it's that easy why aren't there a lot more of them?

To my knowledge, not one receiver or multichannel amp uses them, and the benefits are huge.

I was thinking the same thing. If this were as easy as making a peanut butter sandwich, why wouldn't we have had eight pound, cool running 3000 watt amps say, ten years ago? I'm more of a marketing minded person than technical, at least when it comes to a class D amp. But there had to be some new development either in a key component, or the control of the comonents. And two of the major brands just happen to decide it's a good idea to develope this, at nearly the same time. The argument that light weight amps arent' worth the cost doesn't fly...if the IPRs and INukes are selling now, I'm sure there would have been a market for them in the past as well.

People in the pro sound business would love to load out a rack full of 8 pound amps vs. 45++ pound amps. Cost is higher, yes...but I've spoken with a few guys with a modest budget that would be happy to pay a bit more if it means taking off that much weight.
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