AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Sim2 CEDIA - new models
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sim2 CEDIA - new models

post #1 of 51
9/9/11 at 6:58am
Thread Starter 
As there are 15 new models from Sim2 I thought I'd start a thread to try and cover them all. The ones I have seen mentioned or in pictures:

Crystal 35 $6.5k
Crystal 45 $8.5k
Nero 3D (high brightness) $19k?
Nero 3D-1 $19k?
Nero 3D-2 +$19k?
Nero 235 +$19k?
Mico 160 +~$25k?
Mico 150 ~$25k?
Mico 140 $23k?
Lumis 3D-S $50k
Lumis 3D-S Uno -$38k ?
Cinema 100 ?
cinema 90 $90k?

Any others? Particularily interested to hear peoples impressions of the brighter Mico 150/160 and how they compare to the 3chip models.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 51
9/9/11 at 7:03am
Thread Starter 
Initial specs of the Micos posted by JCastle:

"From the Sim2 brochures handed out today:

Mico 160
"super Pure LED"
Lumens 1000
3d
>100,000:1 contrast ratio
Lumis electronics processing
compression, mosquito noise control and adv sharpness and texture detail enhancement
LAN control

Mico 150
same as above without compression, mosquito and sharpness enhancement
no lan

Mico 140
Pure LED ( 800 lumens)

3D on all lumis projectors including Uno"

They say 3D on all models does this also include the new Micos too?
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 51
9/9/11 at 8:14am
And how much is their least expensive LED unit?
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 51
9/9/11 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

3D on all lumis projectors including Uno"

They say 3D on all models does this also include the new Micos too?

They say 3D on all Lumis projectors. The Micos are not Lumis projectors, so my guess would be no 3D. Besides, 1000 lumens is really not enough for 3D unless your running it on a tiny screen. Could as well get a 65" plasma for 3D then. I'm more interested what the different is between the Mico 140 and the old Mico 50 (which was advertised with 800 lumens as well).

The 150/160 looks great if the really deliver 1000 lumens and the price is right. Hopefully they've worked out the color separation artifacts of the old Micos. As far as performance, I think (leave brightness aside) the old Mico 50 already beats the 3-chip Lumis. I went from Lumis to Mico 50, but had to go back due to color separation artifacts. I was in touch with Sim2 back then, but while they improved it with firmware updates, they never got rid of it. I'm very sensitive to this, but for those who don't have an issue with it, I think these projectors are perfect (if they're bright enough).
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 51
9/9/11 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

Besides, 1000 lumens is really not enough for 3D unless your running it on a tiny screen.

Except that (assuming they actually do it) it's 1000 Lumens indefinitely, unlike a 1200 Lumen UHP lamp that would be 600-700 after a couple hundred hours.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 51
9/9/11 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Except that (assuming they actually do it) it's 1000 Lumens indefinitely, unlike a 1200 Lumen UHP lamp that would be 600-700 after a couple hundred hours.

LEDs drop too, nowhere near as much as lamps, but it happens. Seen it on the Mico and Runco Q750. In both cases under 100 lumens drop, but given they're not that bright one might be concerned when brand new lightoutput is just enough.

For a true 1200 lumens projector, I'd expect more like 800 to 900 lumens unless the lamp is really about to die soon. Different story for Xenon.


But when I mean not enough for 3D I mean it's nowhere near enough, drop or not. I'm not really interested in 3D, but 3D with around 1000 lumens is a joke. It's a nice feature to have if no additional cost is involved at 2000 lumens. If one is serious about 3D, look at 2000+ lumens, maybe 3000+ lumens. Not many projectors can do it. If I'd be into 3D, I'd get a really well performer for 2D and then maybe a 1-chip DLP from DPI blowing out over 3000 lumens and use that for 3D viewing.
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 51
9/9/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

LEDs drop too, nowhere near as much as lamps, but it happens. Seen it on the Mico and Runco Q750. In both cases under 100 lumens drop, but given they're not that bright one might be concerned when brand new lightoutput is just enough.

Just out of curiosity,how long did it take before the lumen drop?
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 51
9/9/11 at 1:14pm
Thread Starter 
So does anybody know what the three that are missing from the list above are? Secondly any idea on pricing for the new Micos? We know the Neros are starting at $19k and I saw in another thread someone mentioned around $25k for the Mico 160
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 51
9/9/11 at 1:25pm
Here's a bit of the press release:

MICO 100 Platform, MSRP, starting at $23,000
The MICO 100 series is a truly revolutionary line: a potent mix of two of the latest cutting-edge technologies - LED and 3D, in a stunning new cabinet design, adding depth to the existing line of MICO models. This introduction is the world's first active 3D LED projector line - and yet another landmark product set for SIM2.

SIM2 has developed an enhanced version of its PureLED technology for the MICO 150 and 160 models, a true all-digital system, with a trio of LEDs (red, green and blue) acting as both light and color source for the DLP® chipset. The purity of color and the ability of this technology to deliver light as and when it is needed provide the MICO 160 and150 with the ability to produce rich, dynamic and colorful images, offering a 25% increase in light output over the existing MICO models. The MICO 160 uses SIM2's ProPower electronics, a true dual-channel signal processor that surpasses the home theater standard for 3D projection, and offers the same optimized picture modes as those used in the LUMIS 3D Series for 2D and 3D viewing.

For customers who do not require the extended contrast ratio and higher light output provided by the new enhanced PureLED technology, SIM2 offers the MICO 140 model, which uses PureLED as its basis.
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 51
9/9/11 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

So does anybody know what the three that are missing from the list above are? Secondly any idea on pricing for the new Micos? We know the Neros are starting at $19k and I saw in another thread someone mentioned around $25k for the Mico 160

Cinema 90 is one.
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 51
9/9/11 at 1:40pm
I really wonder what they did with the LEDs. Are they just cooling them better and driving them harder or did Luminus come out with a larger or better chipset? They do not have any listed on their page, but theymight be keeping quiet until after the projectors are released.

Stephan,

When did you see the drop in the Runco Q-750 and how much was it? Just wondering since i own one.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 51
9/9/11 at 1:41pm
Here's today's Sim2 press release:

Sim2 Press Release
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 51
9/9/11 at 1:42pm
Thread Starter 
Wow, LED, 3D and 25% brighter. It sounds like they have found a way to drive the LEDs harder from the description. Did they have any on demo there?
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 51
9/9/11 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.P View Post

Just out of curiosity,how long did it take before the lumen drop?

Within the first 200 hours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

When did you see the drop in the Runco Q-750 and how much was it? Just wondering since i own one.

Also within the first 200 hours. If I remember correctly, around 50 to 60 lumens. Did I see it? No I didn't, but it can be measured. I also wasn't the one using it all the time in these 200 hours. A small drop over 200 hours is not noticeable, unless you do a side by side comparison. This is true for lamp based projectors too. You start to notice it once they're really much, much dimmer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

Here's a bit of the press release:

MICO 100 Platform, MSRP, starting at $23,000
The MICO 100 series is a truly revolutionary line: a potent mix of two of the latest cutting-edge technologies - LED and 3D, in a stunning new cabinet design, adding depth to the existing line of MICO models.

Interesting, so they are indeed 3D capable. Didn't expect that. Now the question is, do they really deliver 1000 lumens? The old Mico 50 was rated 800 lumens, but delivered only about 650 lumens in reality. If it's close to the 1000 lumen spec, they have a winner at had. But of course they're not cheap and with the 4k Sony coming in with 2000 lumens for under $25k, it will be a tough choice to make.
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 51
9/12/11 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 
UK pricing info for the Nero range and Mico 150:

http://www.whathifi.com/news/cedia-e...rojector-range

Nero models are now listed on the Sim2 website with full specs, all use 1" DLP chips except for the 235. The HB model has adjustable brightness so might be a good option for a living room

This video seems to show that the new Mico range has a different case, looking more like the Crystal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqloxAiYUSo
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 51
9/12/11 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

Wow, LED, 3D and 25% brighter. It sounds like they have found a way to drive the LEDs harder from the description. Did they have any on demo there?

Mark Haflich indicated in another thread that the increase in brightness is due to a new LED light source that puts out 30% more light than the previous model; it is not due to driving current LEDs harder.
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 51
9/12/11 at 1:04pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I caught that in the other thread. Hopefully some other manufacturers start using the chipset as well
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 51
9/12/11 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Mark Haflich indicated in another thread that the increase in brightness is due to a new LED light source that puts out 30% more light than the previous model; it is not due to driving current LEDs harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

Yeah, I caught that in the other thread. Hopefully some other manufacturers start using the chipset as well

What chipset is this? Is it made by Luminus or some other manufacturer? I don't see any new chipsets on the Luminus website.

What would be sweet is combining this new chipset (if true) with their 2.35 imaging chip- ala the Nero 235. voilÃ*! Mico 235


(and no... for the record- I have no info as to the existence of the Mico 235. one can dream though?)
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 51
9/12/11 at 7:31pm
Thread Starter 
No idea what chipsets it is, perhaps an as yet undisclosed Luminus chipset? Whatever it is, it is obviously different enough from the previous Chilin engine to need a case redesign. To me, that means either a different company's light engine or different way to cool the chips
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 51
9/12/11 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

As far as performance, I think (leave brightness aside) the old Mico 50 already beats the 3-chip Lumis. I went from Lumis to Mico 50, but had to go back due to color separation artifacts. I was in touch with Sim2 back then, but while they improved it with firmware updates, they never got rid of it. I'm very sensitive to this, but for those who don't have an issue with it, I think these projectors are perfect (if they're bright enough).

Could you say a bit more about what you mean when you say that you felt that the older Mico beats the Lumis? In what senses?

I have only been able to see a brief demo of the Mico, and not on familiar content, so I have not been able to tell whether I see color separation artifacts on it. I'm *extremely* RBE sensitive, and the Digital Projection LED models show clear color separation artifacts when I view them.

From specs, the Mico 150 would be nearly perfect for me, but if it produces RBE...
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 51
9/13/11 at 1:40pm
The MICO 150 definitely caught my attention. The printed brightness spec I saw was 1100 ANSI. That probably will translate into 900 ANSI calibrated to D65. I thought the MICO 50 was pretty bright (thanks, no doubt, to Helmholtz Kohlrausch Effect), so the MICO 150 should be a relative flame thrower...certainly bright enough to support 3D. And speaking of 3D, they're claiming that the 150 has essentially the same electronics platform as the Lumis 3D SOLO but with a 120Hz frame rate as opposed to the 144 triple flash of the SOLO. 120 is certainly better than the 96 most other active 3D projectors are sporting.
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 51
9/13/11 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

What chipset is this? Is it made by Luminus or some other manufacturer? I don't see any new chipsets on the Luminus website.

Supposedly there is, indeed, a new brighter set of LEDs from Luminus being used in the MICO 150 and 160. This plus liquid cooling makes it possible to achieve the high ANSI numbers.
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 51
9/13/11 at 1:51pm
Pete I think those numbers are a little high
Here is the MICO 50 with normal calbrated numbers. 800 stated lumens many were getting about 550 D65 calibrated. also I think there is conflicting info out there as I thougt the 150 was 1000 lumens not 1100?

Either way 756 calibrated is still very very bright!

800 550
---- = ---- = 756 calibrated lumens on the 150
1100 X
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 51
9/13/11 at 1:54pm
Pete, yeah, that's what has me so interested in this machine. My only worry is that I am quite flicker sensitive, so I may still see color separation artifacts on the single-chip DLP, even at the inherently higher LED refresh rates. Too bad they didn't go all the way up to triple flash. That's a stunner on the Lumis machines.

Does anybody know of anyplace in the San Francisco Bay Area where I could see a Mico in action? I know the new ones aren't out yet, but I'd happily check out the 40/50/60 line.
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 51
10/1/11 at 1:01pm
I live in Brasil and recently bought a Mico 50 projector. I still have an RS 25 JVC that's in a store to sell. I'm using a 110" matte-white screen, and it seems that the blacks don't even scratch the RS's. Since it is pretty hard, if not impossible, to make a full calibration here I took three calibrations from members of the forum. The image is extremely pleasant, beautiful (though sometimes a bit satured), and take an advantage over the JVC due, I think, sharpness and possibly the ansi contrast. I have had other projectors and formerly used a 0.8 screen with good results. My room is completely dark, all black painted. In this case what could be done to better the blacks? Dynamic black is indeed aggressive and I can see the differences while it darkens the scenes. It also darkens the subtitles. Any help is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 51
10/6/11 at 11:21am
I wish I had something to offer in terms of your calibration. From my understanding, it's very difficult to use other people's numbers, because people use different screen materials, have different room treatments, have the projector at different throw distances (and therefore zoom settings), and so on.

I'm interested to know how you find the brightness on your 110" 0.8 screen. Is it as bright as your RS-25?
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 51
10/9/11 at 1:38am
Here is some info on the new Sim2 line, including the new Mico 150 with its new funky cabinet design -

http://sim2-extranet.com/files/downl...alog_Aug11.pdf

Quote:


MICO 150 is a truly innovative product: a potent mix of two of the latest cutting-edge technologies – LED and 3D - brought together by SIM2’s world-renowned design team in a projector that produces images that are sure to amaze! This is the world’s first active 3D LED projector – and yet another landmark product for SIM2.

MICO 150 utilizes the same Super PureLED and active 3D* technologies as the MICO 160. The video processing electronics are the same as those used in SIM2’s high-end LUMIS 3D-S 3-chip series and offer the same optimized picture modes for 2D and 3D viewing: PureMovie, PureMotion 2D and PureMotion 3D.

SUPER PureLED technology is a true all-digital system, with a trio of LEDs (red, green and blue) acting as both light and color source for the DLP® chipset. The purity of color and the ability of this technology to deliver light as and when it is needed provide the MICO 150 with the ability to produce rich, dynamic and colorful images. A 0.95” DarkChip4 DLP® chipset, MICO optical light engine and SIM2 processing electronics complete the feature list of Super PureLED technology. MICO 150 has 1,000 lumens light output and a contrast ratio of 100,000:1 with DynamicBlack™.

Connecting Full HD 2D and 3D video sources to the MICO 150 is simplicity itself: the projector’s input panel has two HDMI 1.4a inputs, available to use for direct digital connection to these devices. A choice of three lenses comes as standard with the MICO 150, giving the projector a total throw ratio of 1.5-3.9:1 and 0.675:1, making it suitable for a wide range of home theater systems. MICO 150 has a newly designed cabinet with crystalglass
accents, and is available in matte black.

And, for those who do not require the extra brightness provided by the SUPER PureLED technology, SIM2 has created the MICO 140(*) which sports PureLED and a brightness of 800 Ansi Lumens.

Also some more comments about the Nero range I've come across-

Quote:


“Now that we have with the S-3D LUMIS set standards that we want to position our development lead with NERO on a broader front in the market,” said Jim Steinbrecher, General Manager of SIM2 Germany. “Therefore we have for the models that we introduce in the coming months, adjusted our technology from the high-end segment consistently and can the customer thus guaranteeing always the latest developments in 3D home theater – no matter what demands on the projector itself arise concerning application focus, home decor and price range. ”

The Nero 3D-2 could be the one if it problem free. Wonder how loud the fan noise would be as Sim2 don't list the db for fans on their units.
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 51
10/16/11 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

Here's a bit of the press release:

MICO 100 Platform, MSRP, starting at $23,000
The MICO 100 series is a truly revolutionary line: a potent mix of two of the latest cutting-edge technologies - LED and 3D, in a stunning new cabinet design, adding depth to the existing line of MICO models. This introduction is the world's first active 3D LED projector line - and yet another landmark product set for SIM2.

SIM2 has developed an enhanced version of its PureLED technology for the MICO 150 and 160 models, a true all-digital system, with a trio of LEDs (red, green and blue) acting as both light and color source for the DLP® chipset. The purity of color and the ability of this technology to deliver light as and when it is needed provide the MICO 160 and150 with the ability to produce rich, dynamic and colorful images, offering a 25% increase in light output over the existing MICO models. The MICO 160 uses SIM2's ProPower electronics, a true dual-channel signal processor that surpasses the home theater standard for 3D projection, and offers the same optimized picture modes as those used in the LUMIS 3D Series for 2D and 3D viewing.

For customers who do not require the extended contrast ratio and higher light output provided by the new enhanced PureLED technology, SIM2 offers the MICO 140 model, which uses PureLED as its basis.

Why do you think a 1000 lumens would be enough for 3d
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 51
10/16/11 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

Also some more comments about the Nero range I've come across-

The Nero 3D-2 could be the one if it problem free. Wonder how loud the fan noise would be as Sim2 don't list the db for fans on their units.

We have a couple of these in and I spent a few hours playing with it. We had it light up our 17 foot wide AT screen and it had no trouble managing that in both 2-D and 3-D. Compared to our Sim2 Lumis Solo 3-D, it is sharper but a bit less bright with very occasional strobing (rainbow effect). I post my early observations here although for this audience, it is not much more than what I just said .

As I commented in there, noise is a low frequency hum. Not objectionable although still audible. Setting it to lower light level reduces the noise a bit.

I like the dark matte color.

Let me know if you have any question about it and I will do my best to answer them.
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 51
10/16/11 at 4:43pm
Amir,

The Hum is somethign I could hear on the MICO 50 as well. If it is the same thing it is the power supply/ convertor for the high voltage gain system. I would have hoped they would have upped the duty cycle of the power supply to reduce this isssue, but I guess not.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Sim2 CEDIA - new models