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Sub Suggetions for a fairly large/open family room - Page 3

post #61 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Found out their warehouse is in Erie, PA so that's pretty much out of the question for local pickup.

OK - So I want to do a bit of experimenting. I ordered a new EP4000 last night and want to try a few different passive setups. I found a pair of like new Chase SS 18.T subs locally that were hard to pass up for experimentation purposes. This means a bit of savings, no tax, and no shipping. I'm going to try them out and order a passive JTR cap (or something close) within the next month or so and see how they compare. Of course I don't expect the CHT set to have nearly the output of the cap, but for the price (especially used) they appear to be outstanding. One set will wind up in the basement and the other in the living room.

I also didn't realize at first that Chase still has the 18.2's (twin 18's in a single 40" tall cab) in stock. A pair of these and a couple thousand watts would probably really rock the house. They are priced at 700 each, and shipping for a pair is 250. 1650 is about the same price as a shipped passive cap I believe. Dual 18.2's vs. Cap???

no more VTF-15?
post #62 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

MKTheater has owned the 18.2 and has a pretty impressive amount of experience with different subs including Danley and others. At one time he had 8 sealed 18 inch running in the same room.

You might want to send him a PM.

Thanks, will do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos1965 View Post

no more VTF-15?

I was fully planning on ordering a pair of the vtf's until the cht Set popped up on the cheap. Worst case I will pick up something else to replace should they not work out. I'll also still have the amp for a cap or other passive setup.
post #63 of 90
Thread Starter 
Update: I set up the CHT SS 18.1 Duo and EP4000 last night. I only had an hour or so to listen and tweak so far, but overall I'm very impressed considering the amount that was spent. I've not played with placement at all yet - they're simply placed on either side of my entertainment center for now. One sub is about 4 feet from the left corner and the right sub is about 4 feet from the edge of an open wall (i know, not ideal).

Pros:
-Very symmetrical sound with current placement, can't place the subs at all.
-They seem to blend very well with my BP30 mains. X-over at~90hz, phase at 180.
-Tight punch for music, with a deep solid rumble in HT.
-Overall the 'impact' factor is HUGE when compared with my RW12.
-Overall looks of the cabinets look fantastic and match very well with my other furniture. These are the 2011 models and the finish appears to be much nicer than the previous models I have seen photos of online.
-This amp has some serious POWER. I'd be surprised if I'm able to use much more than half of it's power. I've not seen the clip lights flash once yet, even at reference. The subs are wired at 4ohms bridged.

Cons/Improvement areas:
-As it was stated in my first post, this is a VERY large open room. Unfortunately room placement options are very limited in this area. I know overall SPL could be increased if the subs were relocated. I'm considering corner loading them both to see how it sounds over the next few days. Another option is one sub in front left corner and the other in the opposite corner near field. However, I'm fairly happy with the symmetrical look and sound as of now and they will probably stay in this location long term.
-As typical for mixing pro audio with HT equipment, I seem to have inherited a low volume hum when no sound is present. I'll be experimenting with group loop isolation fixes next. I'm currently using a 1/4" to RCA adapter. I've tried using an XLR to RCA from monoprice, but I got no signal at all with that combo.
-Also typical for a Pro/HT mix is a very weak signal going into the amp. I currently have my gain on the EP4000 at around 80% and the AVR is set to +2.5db to get it where I wanted. Both sub outputs from the Yami are summed using a RCA ycable. The sub is running about 12db hot according to my RS meter. I'm hoping when I add my EQ (looking at the BFD) I can increase the signal going in to gain some more control.
-Users weren't kidding when they said the EP4000 fan is LOUD! It's easily audible from 15feet away, so I'll be addressing that as well.
-I think overall I prefer the sound of a ported sub over sealed for HT, especially in my room where there seems to be little room gain.
post #64 of 90
Thread Starter 
OK - update again.

1) Hum/ground loop issue has been resolved.
2) New fan on order, should be here on Tuesday!

Woot! Subs are sounding better as I get to tweak them more. Haven't had tons of time to demo loud material, but the wife is gone all next week.
post #65 of 90
So what lead you to go with the CHT over the Hsu subs? I have a somewhat similar dilemma... although with less budget, and I really doubt that I'll be able to get the wife to go along with two boxes the size of the Hsu, coming from the smaller subs I have now.
post #66 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

So what lead you to go with the CHT over the Hsu subs? I have a somewhat similar dilemma... although with less budget, and I really doubt that I'll be able to get the wife to go along with two boxes the size of the Hsu, coming from the smaller subs I have now.


What size is your room? As you may have read from my first post, my room is over 9000 cubic feet and is open to many other parts of the house.

As stated above I simply decided to try the CHT duo since they were available locally for a very good price. I'm definitely happy with the pair of them, even in a huge room. The wife is out of town this week so maybe I can grab some rough SPL measurements. Now that the annoying hum was solved I can enjoy them even more. My digifan should be here tomorrow so that should take care of the noisy fan as well.
post #67 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

What size is your room? As you may have read from my first post, my room is over 9000 cubic feet and is open to many other parts of the house.

As stated above I simply decided to try the CHT duo since they were available locally for a very good price. I'm definitely happy with the pair of them, even in a huge room. The wife is out of town this week so maybe I can grab some rough SPL measurements. Now that the annoying hum was solved I can enjoy them even more. My digifan should be here tomorrow so that should take care of the noisy fan as well.

Wow! 9000cf in one room? Plus open to other spaces? Daaaang. No wonder you need a pair of 18" subs to pressurize it!

My space is not small... the room itself is only ~3000cf, but it's wide open to a 1500cf kitchen in the back AND open to a 2500cf family room to the side, so about 7000cf total open space... ignoring open hallways to other parts of the house (which can't be closed off). Not as big as your space, but hardly small.

I'm currently conflicted between "cheaping out" and trying the SVS PB10-NSB, which is the cheap option, because a reviewer on HTS told he me he thought it pressurized his similarly-open room quite nicely, and spending a bit more on the Hsu VTF-15H, which I'm told should do very well (but perhaps too well, considering my wife already complains about the noise from the MBR in the far corner of the house from the LR!, plus it's HUGE and she may not approve). The advantage to the Hsu is I'm close enough that I could drive over and pick it up, so returns wouldn't be an issue, while if the SVS doesn't work out, I'm out a bunch of money to ship it back. Decision, decisions...
post #68 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

Wow! 9000cf in one room? Plus open to other spaces? Daaaang. No wonder you need a pair of 18" subs to pressurize it!

My space is not small... the room itself is only ~3000cf, but it's wide open to a 1500cf kitchen in the back AND open to a 2500cf family room to the side, so about 7000cf total open space... ignoring open hallways to other parts of the house (which can't be closed off). Not as big as your space, but hardly small.

I'm currently conflicted between "cheaping out" and trying the SVS PB10-NSB, which is the cheap option, because a reviewer on HTS told he me he thought it pressurized his similarly-open room quite nicely, and spending a bit more on the Hsu VTF-15H, which I'm told should do very well (but perhaps too well, considering my wife already complains about the noise from the MBR in the far corner of the house from the LR!, plus it's HUGE and she may not approve). The advantage to the Hsu is I'm close enough that I could drive over and pick it up, so returns wouldn't be an issue, while if the SVS doesn't work out, I'm out a bunch of money to ship it back. Decision, decisions...

If you're local to Hsu you'd be CRAZY not to give them a shot. I don't think I've ready of anyone here who was disappointed with their 15H. With your size room the bigger option is probably going to be better. Yes, it's huge but like you said if the "approval" isn't there you can always return it - although it's probably doubtful that you will.
post #69 of 90
I run the CHT ss-18.2 in my even larger sized living area 40x25 with 10ft ceilings, and it provides excellent slam and presence in the area. The only improvement I would look to at this point is adding a second one so I can collapse the foundation of my house!
post #70 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

I run the CHT ss-18.2 in my even larger sized living area 40x25 with 10ft ceilings, and it provides excellent slam and presence in the area. The only improvement I would look to at this point is adding a second one so I can collapse the foundation of my house!

Damn, that is a good size room! Are you using the dayton amp with yours? Is it corner loaded? I'm thinking of co locating/corner loading mine to compare the difference. Maybe something to do for tonight.

P.S. - Go for the second sub!! 4 18's for the win!
post #71 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

If you're local to Hsu you'd be CRAZY not to give them a shot. I don't think I've ready of anyone here who was disappointed with their 15H. With your size room the bigger option is probably going to be better. Yes, it's huge but like you said if the "approval" isn't there you can always return it - although it's probably doubtful that you will.

I'm quite sure I would be thrilled with the 15H. It was a VERY tough call. But in the end, it came down to this:

1) Money ($769 flat for SVS vs. nearly $1k for the Hsu, since I have to pay high SoCal sales tax on the Hsu)
2) WAF (that Hsu is BIG and TALL)
3) Convenience. Anaheim is not THAT close to me...it's about an hour each way, and at least 50% more if I hit any sort of traffic (not unlikely, since this is L.A.). I'm overbooked these days as it is, so clicking a few mouse buttons and waiting until next Monday for delivery gets things moving much easier.
4) Frankly, I'm a little concerned that the VTF-15H might deliver TOO MUCH bass, and bother the neighbors (and my wife, who already complains from the far side of the house about my tiny little Emotiva sub!).

So I decided to take the advice of the mod on that other forum and give the SVS PB12-NSD a shot. If I decide it's inadequate, I'm out about $70 to ship it back. If like it, I win! The SVS is not small, to be sure, but it's considerably smaller than the VTF-15H. (SVS: 17w x 21h x 22d / Hsu: 18w x 25h x 26d; in other words, the Hsu is an inch wider, 4" taller and 4" deeper than the already-large SVS!)

If the SVS proves noticeably inadequate, I'll ship it back, and hightail it down to Anaheim to pick up that VTF-15H. But I'm hoping the SVS will do the trick for me. I guess I'm risking the $70 return shipping on the SVS gamble, but in light of all the benefits if it works out, I think I can live with that.
post #72 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

I'm quite sure I would be thrilled with the 15H. It was a VERY tough call. But in the end, it came down to this:

1) Money ($769 flat for SVS vs. nearly $1k for the Hsu, since I have to pay high SoCal sales tax on the Hsu)
2) WAF (that Hsu is BIG and TALL)
3) Convenience. Anaheim is not THAT close to me...it's about an hour each way, and at least 50% more if I hit any sort of traffic (not unlikely, since this is L.A.). I'm overbooked these days as it is, so clicking a few mouse buttons and waiting until next Monday for delivery gets things moving much easier.
4) Frankly, I'm a little concerned that the VTF-15H might deliver TOO MUCH bass, and bother the neighbors (and my wife, who already complains from the far side of the house about my tiny little Emotiva sub!).

So I decided to take the advice of the mod on that other forum and give the SVS PB12-NSD a shot. If I decide it's inadequate, I'm out about $70 to ship it back. If like it, I win! The SVS is not small, to be sure, but it's considerably smaller than the VTF-15H. (SVS: 17w x 21h x 22d / Hsu: 18w x 25h x 26d; in other words, the Hsu is an inch wider, 4" taller and 4" deeper than the already-large SVS!)

If the SVS proves noticeably inadequate, I'll ship it back, and hightail it down to Anaheim to pick up that VTF-15H. But I'm hoping the SVS will do the trick for me. I guess I'm risking the $70 return shipping on the SVS gamble, but in light of all the benefits if it works out, I think I can live with that.

Understand your perspective completely, and I seriously DOUBT you will be unhappy with the SVS. Yep, the VTF may be overkill, but isn't that what this forum is all about? Good luck with the SVS, keep us posted with your impressions!

P.S. - Boo to 10% CA sales tax. I'm lucky enough to live very close to a state with no sales tax.
post #73 of 90
it's about 2 feet from the corner wall and one foot out.
post #74 of 90
Thread Starter 
So I decided to play around with placement of the CHT duo last night. Both are now corner loaded and stacked, with the drivers front firing now. OMG, the difference in output is tremendous. Yes, the bass is a bit more 'directional' than it was when they were split apart, but hello consistent, clean, floor/couch shaking bass. I did a bit of tweaking with the settings - lowered the crossover to 80hz from 90hz and played with phasing which made a huge difference. With just one test/song before the wife complained, I was hitting easy 120db+ at the LP at about -5 from reference (about 13 feet from the subs) in my 9000+ cu foot room with my RS SPL meter, uncorrected of course. I was just using one of the hip hop stations on my Verizon fios for the test. Can't wait to hear it with a good Blu Ray. The bass appears deeper and cleaner, likely due to a good bit of room gain. I think I'll keep them in this arrangement and order up some grills. I'll grab a pic or two tonight.

Next up - Replacing the fan in my EP4000 since that has been delivered. I'll also be upgrading the speaker wire to the sub as I ran out of 12ga and had to settle for 14 at the moment.

I'm not sure I'll be needing the captivator right away. I can only imagine what a pair of the ported set will sound like. Maybe add a 18.2 in the back opposite corner?
post #75 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Understand your perspective completely, and I seriously DOUBT you will be unhappy with the SVS. Yep, the VTF may be overkill, but isn't that what this forum is all about? Good luck with the SVS, keep us posted with your impressions!

P.S. - Boo to 10% CA sales tax. I'm lucky enough to live very close to a state with no sales tax.

I'm all for overkill, usually. I'm just trying not to push my luck on the homefront at the moment. LOL Maybe my next house will be more suited to the true overkill that would be my preference. I'll be sure to post back about the SVS.

(Sales tax in Anaheim is actually 7.75%, not quite as bad as my local 8.75%, and fortunately definitely not 10%... but I do envy your sales tax situation!)
post #76 of 90
Thread Starter 
Another update - fan is now installed. What a huge difference, it's now pretty much inaudible. I also picked up a sb USB card on eBay so I can do some rew sweeps shortly. Should be interesting.
post #77 of 90
I should (if all goes well), have a pair of the new CHT VS 18's within a week or so. I plan on posting up a review of it shortly there after.
post #78 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

I should (if all goes well), have a pair of the new CHT VS 18's within a week or so. I plan on posting up a review of it shortly there after.

Awesome, can't wait to hear your impressions. I'm looking forward to reading about the pair at the Omaha GTG as well.
post #79 of 90
Thread Starter 
Nearly two months later - update:

The more I listen to these CHT subs the more I love them. I had a party this past Saturday and we really got to cranking some music. Everyone there was blown away at their 'presence' in the room. I feel like they are finally starting to break in and dig even deeper than when I first picked them up. I was even scolded by the wife a few times for items nearly falling off the shelves.

I had the opportunity to pick up a DefTech Trinity locally, used for a very very good price so I did. My thoughts on comparing this to the CHT set? The Single DefTech seems to have a little (slight) more impact in the very low frequency ranges, but everywhere else the CHT set simply kills it. My preference 100% would be toward the CHT 18.T duo for music, games, and movies - regardless of price. In the midbass area there is simply no comparison, the CHT set blows it away both in terms of output and sound quality. I'm beginning to believe (and this will be validated at our upcoming GTG in February) that the CHT pair is the absolute best value in this price range. Although, I'd be interested in hearing a pair of Epik Empires in comparison as they are the only pair of subs in this category (IMO of course) that would fall in the ~1500 range new.

Jeff at JTR had recently advertised that there were some closeout 2011 captivators available. After some email traffic back and forth with Jeff, I was left no choice but to order a pair of them. With this decision, the Trinity was sold on the 'gon to make way for the new subs. Somehow, I don't think I'll regret this decision, heh. I'll be moving the CHT pair to the basement setup and will continue to enjoy them. While I don't expect the CHT pair will fairly compete with a pair of captivators, they are also much more expensive. I'm going to try my EP4000 with the Caps at first, but will be shopping around for a bit more 'adequate' power supply for them. Besides, I still need an amp for the CHTs.

Just thought some of you may like to hear my impressions. I will have the Caps here setup and running by next week hopefully. More to come.
post #80 of 90
My room is 12x15 with 9ft drop ceiling. I have one cap(on the way) and a dragon. Enought? It's never enough!
post #81 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

My room is 12x15 with 9ft drop ceiling. I have one cap(on the way) and a dragon. Enought? It's never enough!

With your Cap in that size room and I honestly think it will be more than enough by itself. You can probably use the Dragon in another room or sell it to recoop some of the cost of the cap. Of course, you can't sell it until after our GTG.
post #82 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

With your Cap in that size room and I honestly think it will be more than enough by itself. You can probably use the Dragon in another room or sell it to recoop some of the cost of the cap. Of course, you can't sell it until after our GTG.

The Dragon is going to be used in the same room as the Cap. Making it a mid bass unit or will try to. But anyway, it's going to be bass heaven when I get them two together. I don't plan on selling the Dragon anytime soon. As a matter of fact someone was selling a used Dragon. I had to wait for him sell it locally before he shipped it. I couldn't wait so I brought the cap instead. The drive looks extremely tough in such a small box.
post #83 of 90
I agree with Gorilla. The Cap has plenty of output across the board. If your getting a ported Cap it will require extra effort to integrate the Dragon without it fighting the Cap at lower frequencies.
Try it with and without the Dragon and let is know how it goes.
post #84 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

I agree with Gorilla. The Cap has plenty of output across the board. If your getting a ported Cap it will require extra effort to integrate the Dragon without it fighting the Cap at lower frequencies.
Try it with and without the Dragon and let is know how it goes.

Yea, I got the ported cap and Im going to have fun making them play nice.
post #85 of 90
If you can high pass the Dragon well above the Cap's tuning point you may have success integrating them. Where do you normally crossover?
post #86 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

If you can high pass the Dragon well above the Cap's tuning point you may have success integrating them. Where do you normally crossover?

100hz. It works really well with music.
post #87 of 90
I'm sure Jeff will be able to give you some useful tips to get the Dragon and Cap integrated.
post #88 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

I'm sure Jeff will be able to give you some useful tips to get the Dragon and Cap integrated.

I'm sure he will get them to sound good together - but in a 1600-ish cu foot room I doubt there will be a significant increase in quality/output by adding the Dragon. The cap is going to rock the hell out of that room. Move the Dragon to the bedroom or sell it to me so I can use it in mine, LOL!
post #89 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I'm sure he will get them to sound good together - but in a 1600-ish cu foot room I doubt there will be a significant increase in quality/output by adding the Dragon. The cap is going to rock the hell out of that room. Move the Dragon to the bedroom or sell it to me so I can use it in mine, LOL!

LOL. It depends how it will sound in my room. By now I know what spot the Dragon sounds best. But then again, one side of the room has not bass. Lets just hope the cap can fix that. GTG in february I would have an idea of what I want to do with the Dragon. I might come home sub-less and money in my pocket! You never know.
post #90 of 90
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

LOL. It depends how it will sound in my room. By now I know what spot the Dragon sounds best. But then again, one side of the room has not bass. Lets just hope the cap can fix that. GTG in february I would have an idea of what I want to do with the Dragon. I might come home sub-less and money in my pocket! You never know.

My money is on the cap flexing the limits of that room. Can't wait for the GTG!
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