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Vegas Pro 11- GPU Acceleration, Improved 3D Support - Page 2

post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Tom- regarding the supported debate, I believe you are correct in interpretation ( John posted the same thing almost at the same time) but there was always this question raised by the people at Sony that A Mac does boot OSx and this is where the question of compatibility surfaces, they specifically do not list Osx and Bootcamp on a Mac to make Vegas work. People like you have demonstrated that using Bootcamp can and does circumvent the incompatibility of OSx. So, the argument remains that while you CAN use a work around to make Vegas run on a MAC, as flawless as I can run it on a windows PC, Sony does not specifically list OSx running bootcamp with supported windows OS running. I, personally classify this the same as the issue with supporting the JVC MVC file format. It doesn't but through work around ( also not supported but many, like Joe Clark and Frank have successfully done it. It's certainly a gray area as far as Sony is concerned but I believe if it was a supported install, Sony would proudly list it in the specs. It's why I say YOYO or You're on your own. I'm sure Sony knows it works but they are not yet ready to go on the record.

Don.

I am not continuing this supported argument to belabor a point, but I do not feel that you understand that when I boot my Mac under Windows 7 64- bit, Mac OS X never is involved. From the moment I start my Mac, hold down the option key, and select the Windows 7 64-bit partition, the Mac is booting up in Windows, loading Windows drivers, and running exactly like any other PC. In fact, Windows 7 is on its own partition (NTFS) of course and Mac OS X is on a totally separate partition (HTFS journaled).I believe that you may think I am running Vegas Pro 10 in an emulation mode, e.g. Parallels or VMWare, etc. where both OS X and Windows 7 are running simultaneously. While that is possible, I never choose to edit in Vegas Pro 10 under emulation because I would not get the maximum speed and capability of my Mac under emulation as I do when booted directly in Windows 7. If there is confusion here, I may have caused it by stating that I run my Mac under Boot Camp and boot into Windows giving you the impression that Mac OS X is running Boot Camp, but this is not the case. The Mac is booting directly into Windows 7 and only Windows 7 while I am editing in Vegas Pro 10.

I would not expect Sony to make any mention of OS X since clearly Vegas 10 does not support OS X and could never run under OS X.

The real point that I am trying to make is that when I boot my Mac Pro directly into Windows 7 64-bit, it is in fact no different than an equivalent multi-core PC of any brand running Windows 7 64-bit.

In fact, I have run many NLE programs on my Mac Pro including Edius 5 (Grass Valley) and SpeedEDit (Newtek) under Windows XP and now Windows 7 and they run exactly as they do on my PC. The same is true for a ton of other Windows software that I occasionally run under Windows 7 on my Mac Pro. I have never encountered a piece of Windows software that will not run properly under Windows on my Mac Pro. I am not saying there are not any such pieces of software, just that I have never encountered them.

One more example may be worth giving. Until very recently it was not possible to play back Blu-ray DVD's on the Mac because Mac OS X did not support blu-ray. Now a third party piece of software (Blu-ray Player.app) does allow for playing Blu-rays on my Mac Pro. However. long before that software came out I was playing Blu-ray disks on my Mac Pro in Windows using various Windows programs such as CyberLink's Power DVD which, of course, does not run under OS X.

Tom
post #32 of 59
Quote:


I have a PC GTX 285 modified for use on the both Mac & PC I could swap out with the Quadro 5000 (and use the consumer video drivers). Need to use the Q5000 for a specific project, after which I can try the card swap.

John,

I would very much encourage you to to (1) swap out your Quadra 5000 card on your Mac for your Mac GTX285 card. (2) remove the Quadra 5000 drivers and install the latest nVidia driver for the Windows system you are using.

I would really be interested to hear if this helps with the Vegas 10 stability problems you have been having on your Mac. There is no doubt in my mind that Vegas Pro 10e can be made to run without frequent crashing on your Mac Pro system which is more powerful than mine.

Please do note that while Vegas 10e runs fine and is stable on my system, I cannot play back MVC streams in real time in the Preview window of Vegas 10e. My MVC clips play back starting out at 30 fps but soon slow way down and at every transition they slow to a crawl and I just have to step through the transitions a frame at a time with the right or left arrow keys.

Finally, my apologies for cross-posting on your earlier message. I think we were typing and hitting "send" at nearly the same time.

Tom
post #33 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomWheeler View Post

In fact, Windows 7 is on its own partition (NTFS) of course and Mac OS X is on a totally separate partition (HTFS journaled).

This is neither here nor there. The FACT of the matter is that you are running windows within a shell (bootcamp) and this is not only NOT supported by Sony, but it is also NOT supported by your own Apple people:

Quote:


Important: Apple does not provide technical phone support for installing, using, or recovering Microsoft Windows. Support is available for using Boot Camp Setup Assistant, as well as installing or restoring Boot Camp software while booted into Windows. Support articles and discussions may also be available on Apple's support website.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1899

In fact, I find Apple's (limited) support for windows under bootcamp quite wishy-washy and sit-on-the-fence style to say the least. They don't deny this technique... but they don't welcome it with open arms either. It's like all those who choose this method of running windows has fallen into a black hole of some sort. I would LOVE to hear a conversation with Microsoft support after you tell them your copy of windows is running on a mac under bootcamp. It would probably be a real laugh!

Now if this unsupported mess actually works for you and you're happy with the seeming black hole that you're in, then that's all that matters.... but please don't come on here and insult our intelligence claiming it's all within spec and meets requirements and other such incredible nonsense.
post #34 of 59
Bigbarney,

I have been trying to have a reasonable exchange here focused primarily on helping John with his issues running Vegas Pro 10 on the Mac. I feel your last post has crossed the line and personally insulted me. I have reported your recent post to AVS, and I shall simply ignore all further posts from you.

Tom
post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomWheeler View Post

Bigbarney,

I have been trying to have a reasonable exchange here focused primarily on helping John with his issues running Vegas Pro 10 on the Mac. I feel your last post has crossed the line and personally insulted me. I have reported your recent post to AVS, and I shall simply ignore all further posts from you.

Tom

Your last posts were not addressed to John but rather to Don and you were debating the the rather outrageous claim that Windows on a Mac is some sort of reliable base for running Vegas. It is not officially supported by Vegas. It is not officially supported by Sony. It is not officially supported by Apple. It is not officially supported by Microsoft. These are the FACTS. If they insult you then why are you mad at me?? I did not create these facts... the above listed companies did. And if there is no official support then there is no valid claim for reliability.... ONLY your PERSONAL experience.

Once again... If this system works for you then that's all that matters. But don't in turn insult me by saying the facts are not so.
post #36 of 59
Thread Starter 
Don- re: PMB: I pull out the SD card, install in a fast reader, and copy the files (sometimes in seconds, depending on the size of the files). In my experience this is much faster & more convenient than hooking up the camera and using PMB (which was comparatively slower & clunkier).

Tom- perhaps an easier way to explain current Macs is that they stopped being 'Macs' when Apple switched over to Intel. All Macs are now PCs in terms of hardware. The only major difference is the EFI bios (though newer PCs also use EFI bios now). Mac Pros are built on an Intel server motherboard variant (sound is from a RealTek chip); the other Macs are custom, much in the same way laptops are custom, but still have PC components (Macbooks/Pro/Air are PC laptops, made by the same companies who build PC laptops. They are completely customized to Apple specs, just like Dell & Lenovo laptops are customized). The reason that it is so easy to get a "Hackintosh" running on a PC is that OSX runs on PC's with a custom bios. Once past the bios issue (various workarounds), it's easy to install OSX on a PC clone.

Taiwanese manufacturer Quanta builds Sony Vaio, Lenovo, and Apple laptops: all PC hardware.

I used to custom build all my PCs (Supermicro, Tyan, Asus, Gigabyte, etc.) using all the best parts (best GFX, network (before integrated), sound cards (before integrated), SCSI (before integrated, before SATA became dominant), best power supplies (Seasonic, PC Power & Cooling (used to go the plant in Carlsbad and get them direct; including seeing some cool demos from Larry Aldrige)), and best RAM (Corsair, Micron, etc.). In 2006, I found I could buy an off the shelf Mac Pro cheaper than I could build a high-end PC. In late 2010, a 12 core Mac Pro was still cheaper than anything I could build from parts (though I could build something faster, it would also be much noisier unless water cooled). Rumors are that the Mac Pro won't be continued much longer; that's too bad, Apple made one of the best PC's ever (very quiet!), for a reasonable cost (and you can run OSX too ).

Again, I need to use the Q5000 for a project, but will do the card swap with the 285 when finished & report back. Thanks for the tip noting that the GTX 285 is stable with Vegas 10e in your Mac Pro.
post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchultz View Post

Tom- perhaps an easier way to explain current Macs is that they stopped being 'Macs' when Apple switched over to Intel. All Macs are now PCs in terms of hardware.

This would be true if bootcamp was not required. But in order to run windows on a mac you NEED bootcamp. This is not so for a true-blue PC

Bootcamp's drivers are necessary to kind of 'redirect' traffic a bit. The problem with that is that no one (official) will come out and state what that redirection will do with a particular subroutine in a particular program. It's an unknown and therefore not supported by all the above.
post #38 of 59
Thread Starter 
Bootcamp is not required to run Windows on Apple hardware. Bootcamp is only required if installing a Windows OS on a partition shared with OSX. I run Windows on a separate SSD: bootcamp is not required and you can run just fine without ever installing any bootcamp drivers. However, if you want to use Apple specific hardware features (just as with Dell, Sony, Lenovo, Toshiba, etc.), installing bootcamp drivers will allow one to use custom features, such as the DVD open key, other keyboard and hardware features, and the ability to boot into OSX upon reboot. It is 100% a PC with PC drivers; no emulation or shells or redirection: 100% native PC, straight to the hardware. Again, all Intel-based Macs are PC's with a bios which allows loading and installing OSX. Otherwise, they're just another PC clone.
post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchultz View Post

. Otherwise, they're just another PC clone.

Right, so what happens when I put a blank blu ray disk into my internal mac blu ray burner and try to burn my blu ray disk with DVDa? Ever tried to plug a X-FI Elite Pro sound card into a mac running windows or otherwise? I have. It doesn't work. Strange though because it works in a PC

Come on John... gimme a break. This entire thread gets more laughable by the minute. One minute you MAC boys are telling us how macs are so much better and the next (when it's convenient for you) you're telling us that macs are PC clones.
post #40 of 59
Tom- thanks for the full explanation on Boot Camp. I thought it worked differently in that you did have to boot OSx first, then load Bootcamp and while Parallels at this point allows you to switch back and forth with a flip of the desktop, Bootcamp would reboot taking longer. But basically, I was miseducated and thought all along you were running windows under Mac OS. Thanks for that correction. As I said, I had Parallels running and never had any problems with it.

The whole debate here between John and myself was that John kept blaming Vegas and making statements that Vegas was unstable (for everyone). I felt he and a few others had issues with Vegas because they were doing things with it that caused instability. While I do agree with BigBarney that running Vegas on the Mac is not something Sony officially supports ( I got that from Sony) that does not mean you can't do it and get stable results. John just doesn't do it in a way that is stable and therefore has generated his own problems. His main mistake is to assume he does everything right and Vegas is at fault and everyone has problems. Hopefully he learned from his thread this is not the case. ( thread starter needs to check ego at the door once in awhile. )
Hopefully, John will see that your advice, Tom, should be followed if he wants to achieve the system stability and speed you and other Mac users get.

BTW- your results, Tom, in not being able to achieve continued 29.97 FPS playback from the timeline as well as other reports was the reason I ended my search for a big ass multi core box with lots of RAM for a budget of $3000+. I was not convinced there is a computer out there that can do that. So, I streamlined my work flow to include real time playback of sections using the dynamic ram rendering method to review transitions and effects, then for the full story flow, I do an overnight rendering to a BD-RE and stick it in a Blu-Ray 3D player. I'd say every edited project gets rendered 4-6 times using overnight rendering for the hour program as I find ways to make changes to the story before doing the final render to BD-R for permanent master.
If Big Barney is correct I wonder if I'll ever see a computer that IS fast enough to play a limited frame size window and maybe even a full size out to my Passive monitor from the timeline. I'd settle for a computer small frame size preview at full 29.97 fps right now. But, I want a guarantee the box I buy will do it. So far no one I've talked to is willing to stand by their hardware and make that guarantee. Maybe next year...
post #41 of 59
Thread Starter 
Regarding BluRay- it works great: Pioneer BDR-206DBK (to the PC MB it's just another SATA device).

Regarding Creative X-Fi- I have one in another PC (the music version, same as the Elite Pro card but without the external box). You'd have to try one of the newer models, such as the X-Fi Titanium: http://us.creative.com/products/welc...p?category=209. The Elite Pro and the music version have a PCI connector. The Mac Pro's have PCI Express connectors: the old cards won't work.

Regarding Quadro and Vegas compatibility: it appears from the marketing material all that is required is a CUDA-enabled video card:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...qa#faq.ques461
Quote:


Is there a video graphic card recommended for Sony Vegas Pro 10?
To take advantage of GPU-accelerated AVC rendering, when rendering using the Sony AVC plug-in, only CUDA-enabled NVIDIA graphics cards are fully supported. For this feature, we recommend using a GeForce 9 Series or newer GPU.

For all other program features, as long as your graphics card works within the support operating systems (Windows XP, Vista, 7) then you can be sure that there will be no conflict running Vegas Pro.

I'm happy to try swapping out the Quadro; however if stability improves this is a Vegas bug (Vegas crashing vs. graphics drivers crashing). In any case, I hope Vegas 11 is fully tested on Quadro hardware. Sometimes after testing and a problem is found, a trivial code change can make an unstable product rock solid.
post #42 of 59
Question to beta testers of Vegas11: it is possible to edit (simply trim and join files) 3D m2ts without recompression (recompressed only area where is FX) similar to Sony PMB ?
Real bug of Vegas10e for me is impossibility to play smooth Cineform3D from timeline!
CPU utilisation less than 50% on my PC but Cineform3D and 2D (cpu 20%) with preview at Half resolution and played choppy...
post #43 of 59
No beta tester its allowed to say anything about Vegas 11 Pro (we have signed an NDA, sorry).
post #44 of 59
Thread Starter 
Hey vsv- can you post your PC specs? I can play Cineform 3D in real-time in Vegas 10e (until there is a transition, then it stalls and drops to 1/4 resolution, etc.).

Did a quick test with Vegas 10e after installing new Quadro drivers. Here's the crash info:

Quote:


Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: ErrorReportClient.exe
Application Version: 1.0.0.5121
Application Timestamp: 4e0a4c28
Fault Module Name: MSVCR90.dll
Fault Module Version: 9.0.30729.4940
Fault Module Timestamp: 4ca2e32e
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 0000000000018cba
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 266d
Additional Information 2: 266dd9952494adbc7bf1be7663a58c1e
Additional Information 3: 7377
Additional Information 4: 737792d9848d7167ba59ee3ff840fd98

MSVCR90.dll is the Microsoft Runtime Library. ErrorReportClient.exe is "Sony Creative Software Error Reporting Client". What this means is that Vegas x64 crashed, then Sony's Error reporting tool crashed. It's good that they are trying to track bugs, but unfortunately their bug tracking tool also crashed. Without crash data, it's hard to fix bugs (especially if they don't know about them).

Quote:


'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Windows\\assembly\\GAC_64\\mscorlib\\2.0.0.0__b77a5c561 934e089\\mscorlib.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\Sony.Vegas.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Windows\\assembly\\GAC_MSIL\\System\\2.0.0.0__b77a5c561 934e089\\System.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\Sony.MediaSoftware.ExternalVideoDevice.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\Sony.MediaSoftware.Skins.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\Sony.MediaSoftware.clrshared.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Windows\\assembly\\GAC_MSIL\\System.Windows.Forms\\2.0. 0.0__b77a5c561934e089\\System.Windows.Forms.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Windows\\assembly\\GAC_MSIL\\System.Drawing\\2.0.0.0__b 03f5f7f11d50a3a\\System.Drawing.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Windows\\assembly\\GAC_MSIL\\System.Configuration\\2.0. 0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a\\System.Configuration.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Windows\\assembly\\GAC_MSIL\\System.Xml\\2.0.0.0__b77a5 c561934e089\\System.Xml.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\Sony.MediaSoftware.XDCAMExp.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\log4net.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\Sony.MediaSoftware.DeviceExp.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\Sony.MediaSoftware.VideoEffectsUI.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\AjaVideoProperties.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Program Files\\Sony\\Vegas Pro 10.0\\Sony.Monitor3D.dll'
'vegas100.exe' (Managed (v2.0.50727)): Loaded 'C:\\Windows\\assembly\\GAC_MSIL\\Accessibility\\2.0.0.0__b0 3f5f7f11d50a3a\\Accessibility.dll'

Note the 'Managed' strings above. That's Microsoft .NET code, likely used for the Vegas GUI and elsewhere. .NET is fantastic for rapid prototyping and fast UI development, unfortunately it's not a very good tool for real-time applications due to the Generational garbage collector (memory spikes and app freezes) and the fact that .NET is at least 2x slower than C++.

This crash happened as I was testing 'checkerboard' 3D on the Samsung D8000 (just added by Samsung). Doesn't look very good on an LCD (perhaps looks better on DLP); was curious how it worked.

All I was able to get from the (post crash attached) debugger was the above list of DLLs and that 5 Vegas threads were running. Didn't see anything that would indicate a graphics driver error, but it's possible data returned from the graphics driver was not handled well by Vegas and it crashed. I'll do a Windows update and see if there is anything new with .NET that might help.

One thing to note- I always run a 2nd (3D) monitor when working with 3D. Anyone else do so and have good stability with v10e?

[EDIT]
Actually, Vegas hung, then launched the error reporting tool, which crashed:

Quote:


Description:
A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
Application Name: vegas100.exe
Application Version: 10.0.0.738
Application Timestamp: 4e0a4fd7
Hang Signature: bcf0
Hang Type: 257
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Hang Signature 1: bcf081b75608f3a12adecacfcb5c2ded
Additional Hang Signature 2: 651c
Additional Hang Signature 3: 651c3f8ab39746e07a318142e1b21c8a
Additional Hang Signature 4: aec8
Additional Hang Signature 5: aec819f505b3b052fb59cbd496f22a19
Additional Hang Signature 6: c80a
Additional Hang Signature 7: c80aec411a827505a1437b7c21ebb382

[/EDIT]
LL
post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchultz View Post

Regarding Quadro and Vegas compatibility: it appears from the marketing material all that is required is a CUDA-enabled video card:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...qa#faq.ques461


I'm happy to try swapping out the Quadro; however if stability improves this is a Vegas bug (Vegas crashing vs. graphics drivers crashing). In any case, I hope Vegas 11 is fully tested on Quadro hardware. Sometimes after testing and a problem is found, a trivial code change can make an unstable product rock solid.

That is not correct - if you wish to use Vegas 10e Pro with nvidia 3D vision and an 120 Hz Monitor, you need a Quadro for the external preview. I use here the Quadro 2000D, and it works fine.

For Vegas Pro 11, again I am sorry that I cannot say much. But Sony has announced some changes in the 3D workflow.... if you read their publications.
post #46 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

That is not correct - if you wish to use Vegas 10e Pro with nvidia 3D vision and an 120 Hz Monitor, you need a Quadro for the external preview. I use here the Quadro 2000D, and it works fine.

For Vegas Pro 11, again I am sorry that I cannot say much. But Sony has announced some changes in the 3D workflow.... if you read their publications.

Hey Wolfgang- what is not correct? I have the nVidia 3D vision glasses & transmitter, but don't use them. I monitor full screen on a 2nd monitor (Samsung D8000) using the Samsung glasses (simple 2D SBS where the TV converts to 3D). I have a Quadro 5000- has anyone at Sony or beta testers tested that card? Used this way, it's a CUDA compatible card, per the requirements. Again, not using 3D vision, just SBS on an external display.

Of interesting note- nVidia now supports driving a 3D HDTV as a fullscreen 3D display device (where you can use the TV's 3D glasses, etc.). Sounds like full 1920x1080 (same as BD) should be possible (looked pretty good, didn't check the resolution); appears to support 3D modes over HDMI 1.4a.
post #47 of 59
John- I keep reading your posts and once in awhile you drop little hints that could also be a source for Vegas rendering crashes. At least something for you to be aware of and quickly check out.

You said: "I run Windows on a separate SSD: "

Normally, in computers with a traditional hard drive Windows is installed on the C drive and it is a minimum of 500Gb, often in large robust computers 1Tb minimum. SSD's are newer and usually are much smaller than mechanical hard drives in this application, but adequate for windows OS and some application software. Vegas is a bit different because it can generate a huge volume of temp files plus auto backup files during large project execution and rendering. By default these are stored on your OS drive. If you run out of drive space you will crash Vegas. The fix for this can be as easy as changing the place to store Vegas temp files by changing the default path in the Options / Preferences General settings to a fast drive with adequate space. What is adequate? I don't know but from experience with my typical projects of 1 hour, I want a minimum of 100Gb free just for the temp files. There are a couple other changes too but this is the big one. The other changes are much more involved as they require you to uninstall Vegas and do a reinstall.

I offered this as a solution to another in the past who was having trouble rendering past a certain time of project. He thought Vegas had a bug that prevented a longer than xx minutes rendering. Come to learn he had his OS and lots of installed software and lots of internet temp files all on a 240Gb SSD with only about 50Gb free. He changed the default temp folder to another drive with ample space and that ended his premature crashing on his projects. Just something to keep in mind
post #48 of 59
Hi Don,

I suspect that your conclusion that there is not a fast enough computer (of any platform) out there to playback Sony's MVC format in real-time in the preview window of Vegas Pro 10e is correct. If not, I hope somebody will post the specs of their platform, be it Mac or PC, that can playback these MVC clips in real-time (30 fps) in the Vegas Preview Window.

It really is not at all surprising that Vegas cannot playback MVC clips in real-time. If I understand the MVC format correctly (and I may not), it consists of one AVCHD stream for one lens and one "difference" stream for the other eye. To decode this for a 1920X1080 image in real-time (30 fps) is pretty demanding I suspect, and the hardware just may not yet exist that can do it.

I am sure that this will change. I can feel remember when HDV I bought the Sony HDR-FX1 when it came out in November of 2005) was impossible to playback in real-time in Vegas or any other NLE. Within a year or so that issue had been overcome and real-time playback of multiple streams of HDV is possible now even on relatively slow computers. AVCHD is even tougher than HDV to decode and likewise presented problems for real-time playback in Vegas and other NLE's until fairly recently. I think whether we get a machine fast enough to decode MVC clips is highly dependent on the success (or lack thereof) of Sony's MVC format. If the HDR-TD10 has been a successful product for Sony or if other NLE vendors license or develop somehow an MVC decoder, then I believe we will see real-time playback become possible. Until that time when real-time playback of MVC is possible, I follow virtually the same workflow as you do, using RAM preview where it is essential to see a portion of the timeline at 30 fps. And, like you, I do a lot of test rendering to Blu-ray for playback on my Sony 90ES projector.

Don, on a totally unrelated subject, my Sony dealer just got in a some of Sony TDG-PJ1 active shutter glasses. These are Sony's newest active shutter glasses for the Sony 30ES projector, but posts on the AVS Forum said they would work with our 90ES projector. I got two pair of them last night and my wife and I watched some Blu-ray 3D movies with them last night. Functionally, there is no difference with these glasses vs. the glasses that came with our 90ES, although these new glasses do not require any polarizing filter over the lens. However the new glasses are really light, and very comfortable. They also have a USB charged Li-ion battery, but I don't think that is a big deal. Finally they afford better ambient light shielding than the original Sony glasses for the 90ES. I needed some extra glasses for when friends came over and I am glad I bought these new Sony glasses.

I am headed off this weekend to a big Civil War re-enactment here in North Carolina and will be taking my TD10 with me.

Tom
post #49 of 59
John,

Thanks for the sharing the information on Boot Camp not being required to run Windows on a Mac. I did not know that. While I am proficient on both Macs and PC's, I am not a computer geek and thus had a limited knowledge of how Boot Camp allowed the Mac to run as a Windows PC. It was my understanding from using Google that Boot Camp simply consisted of a set of Windows compatible drivers that allowed custom Apple hardware to be used with Windows on the Mac and your post confirmed that.

Regarding the Quadra card as the possible source of some of your problems in Vegas 10e, please understand that I am only suggesting that the Quadra video card may be at fault and that my suggestion is only based on what I have read on other forums describing problems with other NLE applications with the Quadra cards. I would hate to see you go to a lot of trouble because of my suggestion to swap out the Quadra with the GTX285 only to find that did not solve your problems. Please don't hesitate to private message me if you feel I can be of any help at all in getting Vegas 10e to run with reasonable stability on your Mac Pro.

I would be most appreciative if you would send a feature request to Adobe requesting that they implement ingestion of Sony's MVC clip format into Premiere Pro's next version. I have already done so. Vegas Pro is working fine for me, but I think it would be great to compare PP and Vegas if the former could ingest directly the MVC clips with no transcoding. I have found Adobe to be good in the last couple of years at responding to feature requests from their customers.

Tom

Tom
post #50 of 59
John, my PC W7-32 based on mini-ITX DFI Lan Party with i5-750/RAM 4GB/GT430/HDD 2TB.
Wolfgang, thanks. I think a lot of people want edit m2ts avc/mvc w/o recompression.
Also my wish
- render to m2ts 3D playable by TD10
- render to Cineform3D and wmv3D (dual layer)
- render to Sony avc mp4 full SBS 3840x1080 or/and Top-Bottom 1920x2160
- temporaly align paired stream
post #51 of 59
Tom- My 90 ES is in the home theater room and not in my edit suite. I needed something more immediate and close to the edit computer so I preview the BD-RE on a Vizio passive as a secondary monitor and on another hdmi input have a spare 3D Blu-Ray Player I got as a result of the Avatar deal. Just put it to good use in this room.

I bought some newer Sony very light weight and smaller glasses that are USB charged. They do require the filters, however. We like them over the originals too due to the lighter weight. Now we have 4 pair but rarely ever have guests for 3D viewing.
post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchultz View Post

Hey Wolfgang- what is not correct? I have the nVidia 3D vision glasses & transmitter, but don't use them. I monitor full screen on a 2nd monitor (Samsung D8000) using the Samsung glasses (simple 2D SBS where the TV converts to 3D). I have a Quadro 5000- has anyone at Sony or beta testers tested that card? Used this way, it's a CUDA compatible card, per the requirements. Again, not using 3D vision, just SBS on an external display.


If you nvidia 3D vision and an external 120 Hz monitor for 3D preview, with Vegas 10 it is a MUST to use a quadro. So fromt that side it is the half story to say that no Quadro is required - you are not able to run a 120 Hz Monitor as external 3D peview without a Quadro.

If you use a 3D HDTV in the side-by-side half mode, for sure you can use a non-Quadro card for the external preview - but side by side half has the half resolution only.

So it depends on your hardware.

I do not now if anybody of the beta teste has a Quadro 5000 - I know one who has a Quadro 4000 but I do not know if he is editing 3D. I use a 2000D and edit 3D and it works fine (if you know how to adjust the driver). For my opinion for Vegas 10e the Quadro requirements are not high - can be that a Quadro 600 is enough (it seems that you need the driver mainly, but not so much the GPU performance).
post #53 of 59
post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

John- I keep reading your posts and once in awhile you drop little hints that could also be a source for Vegas rendering crashes. At least something for you to be aware of and quickly check out.

You said: "I run Windows on a separate SSD: "

Normally, in computers with a traditional hard drive Windows is installed on the C drive and it is a minimum of 500Gb, often in large robust computers 1Tb minimum. SSD's are newer and usually are much smaller than mechanical hard drives in this application, but adequate for windows OS and some application software. Vegas is a bit different because it can generate a huge volume of temp files plus auto backup files during large project execution and rendering. By default these are stored on your OS drive. If you run out of drive space you will crash Vegas. The fix for this can be as easy as changing the place to store Vegas temp files by changing the default path in the Options / Preferences General settings to a fast drive with adequate space. What is adequate? I don't know but from experience with my typical projects of 1 hour, I want a minimum of 100Gb free just for the temp files. There are a couple other changes too but this is the big one. The other changes are much more involved as they require you to uninstall Vegas and do a reinstall.

I offered this as a solution to another in the past who was having trouble rendering past a certain time of project. He thought Vegas had a bug that prevented a longer than xx minutes rendering. Come to learn he had his OS and lots of installed software and lots of internet temp files all on a 240Gb SSD with only about 50Gb free. He changed the default temp folder to another drive with ample space and that ended his premature crashing on his projects. Just something to keep in mind

I'm glad you brought up that one since your info about the free space helped me with that Don.

But what about the Vegas Pro 11 features request?
post #55 of 59
I just hope Vegas 11 offers much improved gpu assisted h264 encoding as I'm desparate for more encoding power. I currently have three overclocked sandy bridge i7 machines rendering 24/7 for a few months now (yeah I'm one of those that has no stability issues with Vegas 10) and it's just not enough encoding power alas, I need more. The gpu assisted encoding in Vegas 10 was terrible, hopefully Vegas 11 improves on this. If not I guess I'll add some more nodes to the render farm
post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post


I'm glad you brought up that one since your info about the free space helped me with that Don.

But what about the Vegas Pro 11 features request?

Like everyone else we wait for the release and then the complaining can begin...
post #57 of 59
John :
Quote:
I'm happy to try swapping out the Quadro; however if stability improves this is a Vegas bug (Vegas crashing vs. graphics drivers crashing). In any case, I hope Vegas 11 is fully tested on Quadro hardware. Sometimes after testing and a problem is found, a trivial code change can make an unstable product rock solid.

Don't know about your personal troubles with Vegas Pro 10 stability on your computer but for those that just need more speed on playback, the Quadro card is specifically demonstrated by Gary Rebholz in the video. Don't go swapping out your card just yet. I've added it to my new budget for the upgrade. Looks like Vegas 11 upgrade will be costing me $1000 to include the Quadro too. I'll test Vegas 11 first on my present system and if still not able to playback, then I'll spring for the Quadro as Sony recommends.


vsv- Thanks for posting that. I see that Gary does mention that the Quadro card will now have full support for realtime playback of 3D stereoscopic timeline including transitions and video image effects without slowdown. This is very exciting. Looks like I'll be setting up a budget soon for a new video card and Vegas 11 upgrade. Being able to edit in realtime will be a huge advantage for 3D now.
post #58 of 59
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post #59 of 59
I have a gforce 470 which has the cuda accellerators and I am hoping it will work with Vegas Pro 11. I understand that the reason for recomending Quadro is that Nvida support page fliping in the open GL interface. Page flipping is not supported on the Gforce card. I understand that Cineform is working to support 3D monitoring using the Gforce cards which are considerably cheaper.
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