Are the kuro elites really that good?

yes, they are. however i'd buy a newer set if you can wait to find one that does what you need it to do, maybe next year will be better. elites are falling out of warranty and the price people want for them is a little ridiculous. but yes, they are better, by a wide margin in my opinion.

...The line drawn between a KURO and a newer-plasma gets thinner each year. I'm only one year into owning my first Pioneer, but since buying one, I've subsequently bought two more due to their awesome blacks and overall picture quality - I don't run at the recommended calibrated settings, but still the 500M is disgustingly-impressive.

It's worth noting that I've only spent a small bit of time with other plasma TVs; including testing them. Still, I will stand by the freaking gross quality presented within any of the KUROs', hands-down I'd buy another if I had a use for one. I'm sure you'd be able to find a used KURO on Craigslist for the same price as a new VT30 or less

They really are that good. I've owned my 9G Kuro for 2 and a half years and haven't seen anything surpass it yet (the VT30 is oh so close).

I've had mine for 2 years and I'll occasionally look at other sets out of curiosity, but this is the first TV I've had where it's "good enough" for me and I am extremely picky about displays. With my kuro, there's no glaring quirks or annoyances that ever take me out of whatever I'm doing. My set does have some phosphor fuzz in ISF mode (nothing in Pure mode though), but that doesn't bother me since I grew up on tube tv's.

I have a 110 and 150 and still have not found anything to beat them. We have 3 other lcds but the Kuros are king.

3 months after I purchased my Kuro I had one of the better ISF technicians in the bay area come and calibrate my set with equipment I couldn't even identify. He calibrated all of my inputs, spent over 3hours in the process much to my surprise. I might as well mention the name of the company, Robert Busch Home theater based in Northern California. He went into the service menus that only qualified people should delve into.
The black levels after over two years can still be stunning and even watching end credits of movies can almost be spooky to view because of the intense level of blacks where the black bezel of the set would disappear into the image. People can say their sets are as good as the Kuro's but I had one of the Hitachi, rear projection CRT based sets that were sold in the late 90's that were known to have state of the art black levels didn't come close in my opinion to the black levels and 3 dimensional aspect that really good live network or blu ray movies can represent on the 2009 kuros. I hope to have my Pioneer for a long enough time to wait until there is some kind of competitive technology. That is one of the reasons I have stockpiled 4 or 5 oem remote controls.

None of the Kuros can do this. Black is, at best, a very dark grey. (or red..)

No. The black does almost match the bezel in a dark room. You really have to look closely to see where the picture ends and the bezel begins. If you want to call that a very dark grey, go ahead, but it is a deep black to me. I have yet to see anything better than the picture on my calibrated Kuro, even after 3 years.

I just got the vt30 65" to replace a 60"(8g) elite 150 FD(problems)...I can honestly state the the blacks on the Panny match the Elite,IMO...and to tell the truth,the picture appears smoother and crisper then the pioneer...

I know,to some,I might be considered a heretic.....but I am calling it as I see it...and remember,I am comparing a set that has been on the market for 3 years to a brand new unit....but do not sell the vt30 short....it is a fantastic unit!

Also,keep in mind that the Pio,when new,sold in the 6k-7k range and the Pio is approx.(at this point)one half the cost with,again IMO,equal output....so,consider the Panny a bargain!

You clearly don't own one since if you did you'd have some notion what you're talking about.

ISF Mode: Not perfect black with the lights out, but it's very close. With even a small amount of external light in the room, the blacks disappear into the bezel. This would also probably be fixed if I had a proper calibration done.

Pure mode: Overall darker to begin with and darker blacks. Haven't used it in a while, but my recollection is that black slinks into the bezel without any help w/lights out.

Red blacks sounds like some junk you read in a thread that only a few people had an issue with.

150FD - .004 or .001 MLL depending on your source
9G kuro - .001 MLL
9.5G kuro - .0005 MLL
VT30 - .003 MLL, .009 Final MLL if it rises (time will tell).

While your VT30 should be similar to an 8G kuro, 9G/9.5G are a big step up. Slightly better overall PQ, darker blacks, and a little smoother motion res than 8G. VT30 should be smoother than an 8G since it's got 1080p motion res.

Your 8G kuro was a damn fine set and the VT30 is a nice one too, just remember that people are comparing sets to the 9G (and esp. 9.5G). So far those haven't been 1:1 matched or beat, but the Sony and Sharp LED sets are said to come real close, minus the standard LED backlight issues. But yeah, a 9.5G kuro would be about 6x as dark as VT30.

The question,which has been asked innumerable times is
"how black is black?I mean,is there an endless abyss to blacks or does it stop some where?if the 9.5g Kuros are indeed 6x the blacks of the VT30,I have to believe I would not be able to see a picture!
IMHO,if one is more than content with the quality of output from one's set,why would one be on an infinite quest for infinite blacks?
Sort of akin to a surfer looking for "The perfect wave".

Well, the new Sharp Elite has better blacks than your Kuro. Kevin Miller and recently Scott Wilkinson at Cedia said its better than the Kuro as well.

I think the real answer to the question is that the OP will never have both sets next to one another to compare. So, the Kuro would win in that condition, but the new Panasonic will be an excellent choice considering it is new with a full warranty. I have a 9G Kuro, and also a G series Panasonic. The V series is nicely in between the two, and I think most folks would be impressed with that PQ.

Of course. Nothing can compete with backlight that can be completely turned off.

Remember that only Elite and KRP-500M where the only sets that got the "new" improved blacks. They certainly have deeper blacks than the models(5090) before them.

When you're watching in a dark room (which is necessary for the best image quality) your eye is very sensitive to noticing when something is definitely "not black" and stands out from the background.

And as things improve, you need much bigger changes for them to be noticeable. So while 6x might sound like a lot, it may not be as big a difference as you're expecting.

Until black is 0, or at least below the threshold that your eye can detect, there is always room for improvement. You have to remember that many people on these forums came from higher-end CRT displays with black set to be 0 and anything higher is noticeably worse.

Their numbers are fewer now, but there are still groups of people hanging onto their CRTs that are disappointed with the black level of the 9.5G Kuros or the JVC projectors.


Sony's new OLED BVM-E monitors are capable of "true" black which is completely 0, but the big difference between them and most other displays with very deep black levels is that they also show every single step just above black correctly. Where LED backlit displays may crush detail slightly, or show a glow around objects on a dark background, these OLED monitors do not.

Unfortunately being broadcast monitors, they're $23,400 and only 24.5" in size, but it shows that there is hope now that there's a product on the market that not only matches CRT performance, but exceeds it in every way. Now we just have to wait a few years for the technology to trickle down and for mass production to start to bring the costs to an affordable level with larger screen sizes. (or you could look into the new HMZ-T1 if that interests you)

my kuro is the only thing I have bought in this 15 year hobby of mine which has not been bested. I bought mine 3 years ago almost exactly and its still the best ive seen, and believe me I actively look to replace it....i replaced my display every year or 2 tops before owning the 9G.

Cant say im complaining, but on the other hand its sort of sad that development in the area of PQ has come to a grinding halt and is put 2nd or 3rd to things like 3D, ability to connect to the internet etc.

G25 is a good set. I can tell you my Kuro 5080 (the crappiest Kuro ever) beats the hell out of my buddy's G25. The Elite's are even better. I'm not trying to dog your tv either, just being honest. The 9G and 9.5G took it to another level.

The VT30 is impressive but frankly Panasonic has pissed me off. Having recommended them for years I"ve been rather turned off recently by their poor handling of known issues on their TV's. It seems they may be trying to make amends? But no one yet knows if/when the black level on the VT30 will go up.

If I were buying a set this year I'd get the Sony 929 it is a stunning set and it seems to trounce my 5080HD pretty handily. I would also strongly consider the Samsung D7000 or D8000 Plasma IF they release a firmware update that addresses the rather poor black level performance of the sets.

If I were buying a set this year I'd get the Sony 929 it is a stunning set and it seems to trounce my 5080HD pretty handily. I would also strongly consider the Samsung D7000 or D8000 Plasma IF they release a firmware update that addresses the rather poor black level performance of the sets."

So,let me get this straight....you are pissed off at Panasonic for not addressing
'known problems(as you mentioned they seem to be slowly getting the point)
but you would "strongly"consider" another manufacturer that has known issues,
if they addressed THIER problems???

My neibor down the st owns a 65 inch kuro elite. i frist saw this tv last summer and this guy got me hooked back in to the home theather hobby. and i did not knowhe was in to the hobby. but anyways his tv is just awesome the PQ is awesome i wish i could have gotten one

Yes because of the rising black issue with Panasonic that has supposedly been fixed three or four times now. We won't know until these VT30's get 2000, 3000 or 4000 hours on them. The trends are definitely better than last year form the testing I've seen but I don't trust them.

One is a panel design issue (according to Panasonic) the other is a firmware update (for the Samsung) just like last year. That's assuming they do a release to improve the black levels, they may not. They're two completely different issues.

As an owner of a 500m for the last 2 years. I can say it is the best display I've ever seen. I had a pro 111 before that and a Sony Sxrd 50A3000 before the 111. I really loved the sxrd, it had the smoothest picture I've seen on a display. The depth and 3d like effect of the 111 made my sxrd just look flat in comparison. The 500m cranked it up a few notches from the 111. Having it isf calibrated is a must. A calibrated pure mode is like work of art. I love isf day and night, but pure is my baby. I really don't see how much better current technology can get with these displays. From the Natural skin tones, superb color, and shockingly 3d like depth to the picture, I am floored everyday I fire this baby up. If I were to get anything today, it would probably be the Sony 929 as the elite lcd is priced way to high. Who knows if pioneer was still making plasmas, I might have changed my name to Pioboy. LOL!

Never heard of a 65" Elite Kuro, must be something i missed all these years.

I have yet to see anything make me give up my G9 kuro as of yet.

It's sucks that Pioneer have stopped making plasma sets. Just imagine where they'd be if they had continued.

Makes me sad

Maybe I should put it to you this way. I've always been annoyed by any set I've had after I made the switch from tube tv. My KRP has stopped me looking. I occasionally check out other sets for curiosity because I like checking out tech, but as long as the KRP keeps working I could hold on to it for quite a long time. The only thing that would really motivate me to "upgrade" would be if I wanted a larger set and/or they come out with a real 3D implementation that doesn't make everything flattened into a bunch of layers.

I think you're asking the foxes if the chicken tastes good?

And here I feel like a nincompoop holding onto a 111FD (having missed the 500M bandwagon).

You are. I'll be willing take that 111 off your hands so that you'll be free to pursue a Panny or Samsung.