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Star Wars Blu-Ray Release Thread - Page 78

post #2311 of 2403
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Nope - that is incorrect. If he has a deal with Fox on #4, there is nothing that Disney can do to overrule that deal. When they bought Lucasfilm, they bought into that deal upfront.

He does not have a deal, he has nothing to do with it anymore
post #2312 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

He does not have a deal, he has nothing to do with it anymore

He does not have a deal, but there is still a deal in place. Fox has distribution rights for Star Wars, in perpetuity. It doesn't matter if Lucas, personally, has a say in it or not because the deal is already done.
post #2313 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

He does not have a deal, he has nothing to do with it anymore

His deal with Fox doesn't end just because he sold Lucasfilm. You don't seem to want to accept that. It is a deal that will last forever. If Lucas doesn't want you to see the 1977 version, you never will. It's as simple as that.
post #2314 of 2403
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

His deal with Fox doesn't end just because he sold Lucasfilm. You don't seem to want to accept that. It is a deal that will last forever. If Lucas doesn't want you to see the 1977 version, you never will. It's as simple as that.

You may eat those words, never say never.
The Deal was with Lucasfilm not Lucas the person, Lucasfilm is a Disney company and in 2020 like the marvel rights its chasing, they will get it back
post #2315 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

And what if Fox is legally bound never to release the 1977 version? You can't side step that. Only Lucas can.

Indeed. Which is why I think the disney contract probably says somewhere in page 763 that the original trilogy is never to be released no matter what. George Lucas was so determined with this I'm sure he made sure this particular decision of his will stay that way.

As far as distribution rights go, if Disney wants to make another Star Wars set with the existing films, I understand they can't under their brand, but is that really a problem? Fox does distribute the films, but it's Disney as the owner of the films who decides what to do. Gladiator isn't distributed by Paramount overseas but Paramount (and Deamworks?) owns it, that didn't prevent them to release it through their distributors, Universal being one of them. Universal couldn't say, uh, no we won't do this. I'm just curious, copyrights are a complex matter smile.gif
post #2316 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Disney has nothing to do with releasing the first 6 movies on DVD/BD. They don't own the rights to do that. Fox does until 2020 when the rights resort to Disney for 5 of the 6 films (not #4). If Fox releases the 1-6 SWs movies say on 4K BD 3 years from now, Disney doesn't get a single dime of the revenue, nor do they have any say as to how or what will be released. Just like when Fox starts releasing 1-6 on 3D BD. Same situation..

Does that mean that Lucasfilm never saw any profit from the various home video releases that Fox put out? Disney are just taking their place in the equation, no? If Disney don't have any say in what Fox releases, doesn't that mean Lucasfilm never did either?

I find that pretty hard to believe. Fox have released 3 different cuts of the Special Editions over the years, and also put out the unaltered trilogy on DVD. Lucasfilm had nothing to do with these decisions? If that's the case, there obviously wasn't some sort of contractual restriction in place saying they could only release one version of the film. When people would bug Fox about putting out the unaltered versions, the standard response was "We don't make the decisions, we just press the discs. Contact Lucasfilm".

I'm not saying you're wrong, as I don't really have any knowledge in these matters. I'm genuinely confused about it all. But from all the information I have seen, it suggests to me that Fox simply have the right to make the discs. They don't decide what goes on the discs, they can't refuse to put certain content on a disc, or leave certain content off. Previously, those decisions were made by Lucasfilm, now they'll be made by Disney.
post #2317 of 2403
Distribution rights are not the same thing as ownership. Fox is merely the distributor of the Star Wars movies, and their contract actually gives them only a very small percentage of the profits from that distribution (much smaller than a typical movie's distribution contract). Lucasfilm owns and controls the movies. It was Lucasfilm that decided which version of the movies to release and when, not Fox. Fox's role was to produce the copies (whether theatrical prints or video discs), distribute them, and promote them. As the new parent company, ownership rights now move to Disney. The distribution contract will still remain in place, but Disney will make the decisions, and Fox will act on those decisions, just as Fox acted on Lucas' decisions in the past.

Unless he has some insider information that the rest of us don't, I'm not sure why Lee seems to think that it was George Lucas as an individual who owned Star Wars, and not Lucasfilm, Ltd. Yes, until now, Lucasfilm was George Lucas, but now that he has broken that association, the corporation retains ownership over its properties. George Lucas is out, and he's washing his hands of it.

I see no reason why the new parent company couldn't restore and re-release the original theatrical cuts of the movies, unless Lucas specifically forbid that action in the contracts for the company sale. (I wouldn't put it past him.) What's more uncertain is whether Disney would even want to do that. Disney has as much a history of revisionism towards its properties as Lucasfilm ever did. Will anyone at Disney recognize the importance of restoring the original films?
Edited by Josh Z - 11/2/12 at 11:42am
post #2318 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Distribution rights are not the same thing as ownership. Fox is merely the distributor of the Star Wars movies, and their contract actually gives them only a very small percentage of the profits from that distribution (much smaller than a typical movie's distribution contract). Lucasfilm owns and controls the movies. It was Lucasfilm that decided which version of the movies to release and when, not Fox. Fox's role was to produce the copies (whether theatrical prints or video discs), distribute them, and promote them. As the new parent company, ownership rights now move to Disney. The distribution contract will still remain in place, but Disney will make the decisions, and Fox will act on those decisions, just as Fox acted on Lucas' decisions in the past.
Unless he has some insider information that the rest of us don't, I'm not sure why Lee seem to think that it was George Lucas as an individual who owned Star Wars, and not Lucasfilm, Ltd. Yes, until now, Lucasfilm was George Lucas, but now that he has broken that association, the corporation retains ownership over its properties. George Lucas is out, and he's washing his hands of it.
I see no reason why the new parent company couldn't restore and re-release the original theatrical cuts of the movies, unless Lucas specifically forbid that action in the contracts for the company sale. (I wouldn't put it past him.) What's more uncertain is whether Disney would even want to do that. Disney has as much a history of revisionism towards its properties as Lucasfilm ever did. Will anyone at Disney recognize the importance of restoring the original films?

Josh, It all depends on what kind of a deal Lucas had with Fox when he recut #4 as the Special Edition. If he contractually obligated Fox to recognize the Special Edition as the ONLY edition of Star Wars: A New Hope, then that is the way it will be forever.

With 5 and 6, he owned them so he could also demand of Disney that the Special Editions are the only editions of those films. And as you said . . . "I wouldn't put it past him."
post #2319 of 2403
If anything, we should expect Disney to put the original trilogy "in the vault" for a while, and then build hype for Episode VII by unveiling a new ultra special edition release with even more tweaks and changes and additions that pave the way for the new movies. Even if Fox handled the distribution, Disney would still get most of the profits and benefit from the hype heading into 2015.
post #2320 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by giantchicken View Post

If anything, we should expect Disney to put the original trilogy "in the vault" for a while, and then build hype for Episode VII by unveiling a new ultra special edition release with even more tweaks and changes and additions that pave the way for the new movies. Even if Fox handled the distribution, Disney would still get most of the profits and benefit from the hype heading into 2015.

Disney wanted Lucasfilm for:

1. Rights to make future Star Wars films
2. Star Wars merchandising - now over $22 BILLION!
3. Television broadcast rights - they get that immediately
4. Star Wars video games - they get that immediately also. Now over $3 billion.
5. Industrial Light and Magic and Skywalker Sound - THE premier companies in their industries.

And again, Fox owns New Hope (#4) not Disney. Plus Fox has the distribution rights to all 6 films until May 2020 for both DVD/BD and theaterical presentations.
post #2321 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

And again, Fox owns New Hope (#4) not Disney. Plus Fox has the distribution rights to all 6 films until May 2020 for both DVD/BD and theaterical presentations.

That just isn't true. Lucas bought the first film off Fox many years ago, I believe in exchange for Fox getting the distribution deal to the prequels. They hold distribution rights to the first film forever, yes, but as has been pointed out, this apparently means nothing regarding a future release of the unaltered version. Even if the distribution deal did provide rights to ONLY release the Special Edition (which clearly isn't the case anyway as Fox put out the unaltered version back in 2006), surely that means Disney could release the unaltered version AND distribute it themselves, since it isn't the Special Edition, and thus wouldn't infringe on Fox's exclusive rights to the Special Edition.

I'm not saying that is the case, as it's clear the deal isn't "Special Edition" only, I'm just pointing out your argument doesn't seem to hold water.
post #2322 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLarkin View Post

That just isn't true. Lucas bought the first film off Fox many years ago, I believe in exchange for Fox getting the distribution deal to the prequels. They hold distribution rights to the first film forever, yes, but as has been pointed out, this apparently means nothing regarding a future release of the unaltered version. Even if the distribution deal did provide rights to ONLY release the Special Edition (which clearly isn't the case anyway as Fox put out the unaltered version back in 2006), surely that means Disney could release the unaltered version AND distribute it themselves, since it isn't the Special Edition, and thus wouldn't infringe on Fox's exclusive rights to the Special Edition.
I'm not saying that is the case, as it's clear the deal isn't "Special Edition" only, I'm just pointing out your argument doesn't seem to hold water.

Nope - Fox owns New Hope not Lucasfilm:

Star Wars Box Sets Can't Happen, Since Fox Still Owns A New Hope
Quote:
Thanks to a series of complicated business deals made by George Lucas back in the day, it seems Disney will acquire all worldwide media rights to the last five films in 2020. Unfortunately, Fox owns Star Wars: A New Hope permanently. As a result, the studio would either need to sell the film to Disney sometime in the future, or it would need to be a partner in any Star Wars complete sets in the future

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Box-Sets-Can-t-Happen-Fox-Still-Owns-Hope-33854.html
post #2323 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLarkin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

And again, Fox owns New Hope (#4) not Disney. Plus Fox has the distribution rights to all 6 films until May 2020 for both DVD/BD and theaterical presentations.

That just isn't true. Lucas bought the first film off Fox many years ago, I believe in exchange for Fox getting the distribution deal to the prequels. They hold distribution rights to the first film forever, yes, but as has been pointed out, this apparently means nothing regarding a future release of the unaltered version. Even if the distribution deal did provide rights to ONLY release the Special Edition (which clearly isn't the case anyway as Fox put out the unaltered version back in 2006), surely that means Disney could release the unaltered version AND distribute it themselves, since it isn't the Special Edition, and thus wouldn't infringe on Fox's exclusive rights to the Special Edition.

I'm not saying that is the case, as it's clear the deal isn't "Special Edition" only, I'm just pointing out your argument doesn't seem to hold water.
Fox doesn't "own" Episode IV, but it does own the distribution rights on a permanent basis and has distribution rights for the other five episodes until 2020. This has all been reported in the press surrounding the Disney buyout. For the next seven years, those movies will be distributed by Fox on Blu-ray. I can almost guarantee we will now see the unaltered original Trilogy on Blu-ray. With this move, Lucas seems to largely be washing his hands of day-to-day control of the Star Wars franchise.
post #2324 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Fox doesn't "own" Episode IV, but it does own the distribution rights on a permanent basis and has distribution rights for the other five episodes until 2020. This has all been reported in the press surrounding the Disney buyout. For the next seven years, those movies will be distributed by Fox on Blu-ray. I can almost guarantee we will now see the unaltered original Trilogy on Blu-ray. With this move, Lucas seems to largely be washing his hands of day-to-day control of the Star Wars franchise.

Owning the distributiion rights permanently is just like owning the film. And again, it depends what kind of a deal Lucas did with Fox when he recut the Special Edition.

Your guarantee seems to avoid the cavets that are attached to A New Hope.
post #2325 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Owning the distributiion rights permanently is just like owning the film.

But they can't distribute that work when they see fit because the copyright owner is a different entity. When both are the same it's a non-issue, but this is different. Otherwise Fox wouldn't have waited that long to release Star Wars on Blu-ray, just like they wouldn't have waited that long to release them on dvds... It's the copyright owner who makes that call - who is Lucasfilm (whether it's owned by George Lucas or Disney doesn't matter, it's just not, I think, up to Fox).
post #2326 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Owning the distributiion rights permanently is just like owning the film. And again, it depends what kind of a deal Lucas did with Fox when he recut the Special Edition.
Your guarantee seems to avoid the cavets that are attached to A New Hope.

It really isn't. When Lucas first negotiated with Fox over Star Wars back in 76/77, he asked for the ownership rights to any future sequels, allowing him complete creative control over their production. Yet, Fox still distributed them in cinemas, and on home video, and on TV. Lucas still needed a distributor, and always has. It doesn't mean they have ownership rights to them, either until 2020 or forever. The only film Fox has actually OWNED, since they paid for it's production, is A New Hope. They relinquished this ownership to Lucas in exchange for the distribution rights to the prequels.
post #2327 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Please provide a link that shows ownership of #4 transferred from Fox to lucasfilm.

The terms of the deal Lucas made back in 97 have never been released. Unnamed sources have stated ownership of the first film went back to Lucas in exchange for a lower than usual distribution fee for the prequels (http://articles.latimes.com/1998/apr/03/business/fi-35475).

Over the past 15 years this has been repeated by many other sources.

The link you posted is making the same mistake many others like it have made; confusing distribution and ownership rights.
post #2328 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Your link doesn't say anything about a transfer of ownership. How about another one that SPECIFICALLY says it does.

Though executives from Fox and Lucas' San Rafael, Calif.-based Lucasfilm Ltd. declined to elaborate on most specifics of the deal, one source hinted that in exchange for a much-lower-than-usual (likely less than 10%) distribution fee on the films plus the rights to debut "Episode I" on its Fox TV network, Fox gave Lucas the rights to the original "Star Wars," making his empire complete.

I can't provide anything better than that. Sorry. It's simply been a known and agreed upon fact for many years now.
post #2329 of 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieLarkin View Post

Though executives from Fox and Lucas' San Rafael, Calif.-based Lucasfilm Ltd. declined to elaborate on most specifics of the deal, one source hinted that in exchange for a much-lower-than-usual (likely less than 10%) distribution fee on the films plus the rights to debut "Episode I" on its Fox TV network, Fox gave Lucas the rights to the original "Star Wars," making his empire complete.
I can't provide anything better than that. Sorry. It's simply been a known and agreed upon fact for many years now.
Quote:
But Fox owns distribution rights to the original Star Wars, No. 4 in the series, in perpetuity in all media worldwide. And as for the five subsequent movies, Fox has theatrical, nontheatrical and home video rights worldwide through May 2020.

While the rights on those five films eventually will revert to Disney, that "in perpetuity" pact for the first film appears to be an obstacle to Disney releasing a complete set -- unless a deal can be made.

According to a longtime Lucas associate, the filmmaker always wanted to keep his films together. “Now it seems like he can't have a total package of the story because one of the movies is with Fox, unless they can make some kind of deal [with Disney] to release nine of them,” this person says.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tangled-rights-could-tie-up-384541

As far as the May 2020 deal:
Quote:
Fox plans to proceed with plans to re-release the supposedly much-improved 3D versions of Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith in fall 2013. The re-release of Episode I -- The Phantom Menace turned in only a fair performance earlier this year, grossing a total of $102.8 million worldwide. Fox receives only a relatively low - six percent - distribution fee to release those films.
post #2330 of 2403
The article specifically says that Fox owns distribution rights to ANH in perpetuity. You and "Kim Masters" can believe all you like that distribution rights are "just like" ownership rights, but the fact is they are not. No "deal" has to be made. If Fox wants to release ANH at any point in the future, they'll need Disney's permission. I'm sure it's inclusion in a post-2020 Disney box set isn't something Fox is going to prevent; they'll get their cut. And I doubt Disney will care very much about Fox releasing a pre-2020 box set with the first 6 films in, since DIsney will be seeing the vast majority of the profits from it anyway.
post #2331 of 2403
A number of bickering posts removed. Let this serve as a warning to cease the nitpicking.

Also, I will remind you of the first words the OP placed in this thread: "This thread is for picture/sound/extras discussion only."

Just throwin' that out there. Keep it civil or find yourself without posting rights in this thread.

-- Darth Mod
post #2332 of 2403
Thread Starter 
Episode 9 out in 2020 full boxset the same day, simple
post #2333 of 2403
Why could'nt Fox and Disney strike a deal and include part 4?

I don't think that will be so hard in X years from now. Bot companies want to make money.

But I would be happy with a Fox released superduper editiion of A New Hope free from Lucas control. The only film I need really of them all.
Edited by Spiritual_Chaos - 11/2/12 at 4:13pm
post #2334 of 2403
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual_Chaos View Post

Why could'nt Fox and Disney strike a deal and include part 4?
I don't think that will be so hard in X years from now. Bot companies want to make money.
But I would be happy with a Fox released superduper editiion of A New Hope free from Lucas control. The only film I need really of them all.

Avengers says yes
post #2335 of 2403
Not sure what part of STOP BICKERING y'all didn't understand. No more arguing over ownership vs distribution.

Posts removed

Infractions issued.

Suspensions if it continues and removal of posting privileges in this thread. Now STOP.
post #2336 of 2403
When Lucasfilm released Red Tails theatrically with an Auro-3D 11.1 soundtrack, I had 'high hopes' that a subsequent 3D release of the Star Wars Saga might also gain 3D sound--both theatrically and on BD--as a second 'added value' element. But Disney, the Saga's new Master, has already established a 'relationship' with Dolby [Atmos] through Pixar's Brave soundtrack. So it appears I need to update my 1/24/2012 post (made just prior to the release of TPM 3D):
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

I think I'll probably skip the 'new' theatrical and BD releases of the Star Wars Saga in 3D this time around . . . in favor of the inevitable "revised video-and-plot" version we'll no doubt receive in a few years when George Disney decides we all need to see-and-hear an Auro-3D 11.1 a Dolby Atmos soundtrack release of the Saga! biggrin.gifeek.gifcool.gif
_
Edited by SoundChex - 11/3/12 at 2:14pm
post #2337 of 2403
Thread Starter 

Skip to after 3 mins
post #2338 of 2403
This is my first post at AVS since the big news broke just over a week ago. Here are my thoughts:

I continue to reiterate my long-held opinion that Lucasfilm should release a blu-ray set with all three theatrically-released versions of the films, ala the Blade Runner set.

Disc One would be whatever version ends up in theaters in a couple years, Disc Two would be the '97 version and Disc Three would be the original.

I'd love to see the theatrical cuts of the prequels released on blu-ray as well.

Also, Warner and Universal should release the theatrical cuts of THX and Graffiti, respectively.*

*This Disney news doesn't change the situation with those two films (the respective studios have always owned the rights to those movies completely, unless there's some deal we don't know about). I just thought I'd mention it while I was here.
post #2339 of 2403
^^^^^

This would be so awesome.
post #2340 of 2403
What's with all these "if" & "never" posts?!?!
Jorge released the theatrical original trilogy on DVD.
No, its wasn't too our expectations (non-anamorphic for one thing).
However it WAS released.

Any one think someone gave Jorge $4,000,000,000.00US in currency/certificates & isn't even considering re-releasing the "OT"???
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