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The Unofficial Mits 7800 Thread.... - Page 10

post #271 of 421
I used the chart provided by Mitsubishi to get the Offset, but it can be calculated the other way as well, but I always show it as % of the diagonal size because it is easier for users to understand, and most of the newer DLP manuals are showing the offsets based on diagonals instead of other parameters (but not all of course).

Here is the official chart:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21095544

The default offset is 16.5" for a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen, just like the Mitsubishi hc4000 which I used to own. Since it has vertical shift, that offset can be moved to 9.4" above the screen or 22.8" above the screen for a 100" diagonal 16:9, give or take 0.3" due to MFR tolerance.
post #272 of 421
And for the 16 x 9 100 " D screen which of course has viewing dimensions of 49" x 87", multiplying the 49 inch height dimension by 19% gives the same number you calculated for minimum offset and multiplying by 47% gives essentially the same number you got for maximum offset. The changing height as 16 x 9 diagonal changes can be correlated to give a multiplier based on diag but it really makes little difference which way you do it. Multiply your 16 x 9 screen height by 19% and you will get real close to the minimum offset you can use.
post #273 of 421
Yah, it makes no difference except the charts in the manuals are showing diagonal offset, so the closer to the manuals I keep it, the fewer questions I get from users (well that's the plan).
post #274 of 421
Coderguy. Using your calculator for this projector, it looks like for a 125" 16:9 screen using a 4" or so mount, I would need to have the screen about 14" off the floor?

Dang.. I really would like to have the screen closer to 2' off the floor.. Am I missing something, or do I just need taller ceilings?
post #275 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

Re: 'The offset is based on the diagonal size', as I change the screen size the Lens Offset stays at 16.5% in the calculator so that confuses me...

16.5% is a percentage that does not change, so as the screen size grows the physical amount of room the lens shift has changes, but not the base percentage. For instance 16.5% * 100" is different than 16.5% * 120". I am sure you realize that, but were just not realizing the factor that changes in this case is only the screen size.
post #276 of 421
In simple terms, the minimum offset distance increases as the screen size increases. The minimum offset is 19% of the screen height and something smaller times the screen diagonal, 16.5% if I asm reading this right.
post #277 of 421
I'm really surprised that tilting this projector and using a little keystone is a deal breaker for so many of you. Have any of you tried this with your current projector? Well I have and I HONESTLY can't see any difference at all with my Infocus X10 or Acer H5360. It looks just as good tilted as it does when not tilted. I gave the Panny AE7000U a try and sorry but I just can't deal with ANY ghosting no matter how minimum it is and I'm happy to sacrifice tilting and using keystone then settling for a inferior projector in terms of 3D. This will be the BEST projector for 3D period. I've preordered with AVS (thanks Mike) and I can't wait to get my hands on this bad boy!

Just my 2 cents.
post #278 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmaowner View Post

I'm really surprised that tilting this projector and using a little keystone is a deal breaker for so many of you. Have any of you tried this with your current projector? Well I have and I HONESTLY can't see any difference at all with my Infocus X10 or Acer H5360. It looks just as good tilted as it does when not tilted. I gave the Panny AE7000U a try and sorry but I just can't deal with ANY ghosting no matter how minimum it is and I'm happy to sacrifice tilting and using keystone then settling for a inferior projector in terms of 3D. This will be the BEST projector for 3D period. I've preordered with AVS (thanks Mike) and I can't wait to get my hands on this bad boy!

Just my 2 cents.

I agree. The problem I'm having (or not) is that the Acer is providing a great 3D image at so little cost that it is hard rationalizing spending six times its cost to get 10 or 15 percent more image quality, if that. Just watched Peter Gabriel in 3D and asked myself why I need anything better at the moment. I'm not interested in ghosting either -- DLP is a real spoiler. Once you're used to NOT seeing ghosting then "any" is going to be a problem.
post #279 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I agree. six times its cost to get 10 or 15 percent more image quality, if that.

The Acer is a good unit in its price range.

I don't mean to sound disagreeable, but there is no reason that this Mits hc7800 only has a 10% or 15% increase in image quality compared to a $500 DLP projector that is 720p and a 3x color wheel, has no IRIS.

The blacks will be exponentially darker on the Mits, the colors will be far more accurate, motion resolution will stay more in tact, using keystone will not have as much of a severe affect (keystone is more noticeable on a 720p projector especially on one that has a lesser quality lens to start with), and the intrascene contrast in both bright and dark scenes will be higher with the Mits (significantly higher), the picture will look more film like and sharper at the same time, so the image will be a good deal sharper without looking artificial (this projector looks to have one of the best LENS of any projector under $10,000), and besides these attributes helping 3D, it will just look better overall.
post #280 of 421
Experience of the HC7800D (engineer model):
GOOGLE TRANSLATE FROM HD.Club.tw


About rainbow effect:

HC7800D is better than HC4000.
Especially in 3D mode.
Perhaps because of the new design of color wheel, and the 3d glasses too.


---------------
About the color wheel, the official DM is RGBRGB,4x.
The color wheel design is with the new 3D glass.
http://www.mitsubishi-presentations....c7800d_web.pdf


If you are interested it, find a chance to see it!
post #281 of 421
Someone would need both projectors side-by-side to test for RBE differences. 3D is much darker and therefore will have much less RBE. That said, it's always possible the RBE has been improved a little, but I still have doubts.
post #282 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The Acer is a good unit in its price range.

I don't mean to sound disagreeable, but there is no reason that this Mits hc7800 only has a 10% or 15% increase in image quality compared to a $500 DLP projector that is 720p and a 3x color wheel, has no IRIS.

The blacks will be exponentially darker on the Mits, the colors will be far more accurate, motion resolution will stay more in tact, using keystone will not have as much of a severe affect (keystone is more noticeable on a 720p projector especially on one that has a lesser quality lens to start with), and the intrascene contrast in both bright and dark scenes will be higher with the Mits (significantly higher), the picture will look more film like and sharper at the same time, so the image will be a good deal sharper without looking artificial (this projector looks to have one of the best LENS of any projector under $10,000), and besides these attributes helping 3D, it will just look better overall.

Well here's a comparison of the Acer vs. the $10,000 Sony VW90 by Conan48. You would logically think that a $10,000 projector with a DI, FI, much better lens and all the goodies should be infinitely better than a cheapo $500 projector -- right! Wrong! This is my favourite post on this forum in the 12 years I've been here! This is the reason I'm hesitant to replace the Acer. The Mits 7800 is on the top of my list if I do.

"I suggest you keep your Acer for 3D. Unless the JVC is literally 10x better then the Sony for 3D then you will be disapointed. I was pretty happy with the Sony for 3D and made a decision not to watch the Acer for a month so that I would have new movies to watch on the Sony when it came. A week later I decided to plug the Acer in again and WOW. The Acer blew my mind again at how much better it was then the Sony. I had that sinking feeling in my stomach like Oh **** I just spent 15x the price on something that is inferior to a little Acer.

Zombie, you asked what scenes showed ghosting in relation to the Sony vs. Acer. I realized pretty much every scene had some form of ghosting or another. Some minor, and some obvious. Anyway I was gonna sell the Sony and just stick to my Acer/epson combo because I was going to move in march and needed to save money, but now Im not moving until the fall so I got's some money I can still spend. I'm getting the RS50 now, and hopefully Im not gonna get slapped in the face twice! The dealer was like naw theirs no ghosting on the Sony, and I pointed out scene after scene to him and he was like "I'll call you latter today when I get info on the JVC". This is my last attempt at going 3D with a non DLP projector. If anything I will just use the JVC for 2D and continue my dual PJ setup.

When I told my dealer that my 500 Acer is better then the Sony, he gave me a look like he wanted to hurt me. I told him if he wants, next time I come over I'll bring it and show him how 3D is supposed to look. Maybe he can become an Acer dealer."

In another post he goes on to say.

"What is the one product that I wish I had never bought now? The Acer!! This little POS that costs 500.00 does such an amazing job for 3D that I've been spoiled for the past year in completely smooth, ghost free images. Im actually hoping that the JVC can come close to the Acer for 3D performance and not the other way around If I had never owned the Acer and just coming from a strictly theatrical 3D experience. I would have most likely never even noticed how bad the ghosting was."

Now that's funny!
post #283 of 421
Does anyone know how good Mitsubishi's Frame Interpolation/Frame Creation processing is on their projectors? I know Sony has a very good reputation for them am curious what Mitsubishi's reputation is based on their projectors that have it.

Also specifically for the HC7800 does anyone know how many levels there are? e.g. off, medium and high? off, low, medium and high?
post #284 of 421
@Deja Vu
The cheaper DLP's do beat some really expensive projectors in 3D use, but not all of us are buying these projectors for 3D. There is a lot more to the image than just how much ghosting the 3D has once you've already eliminated ghosting such as in the hc7800's case. I think Zombie likes the 3D on the newer Sony's fine however, the first year LCOS models were quite awful in ghosting. Almost all of last year's non-DLP projectors had much more severe ghosting than this year.

@WynsWrld
I am not sure, but you might check the Mits hc9000d manual as I'm betting it will probably be similar to that one.
post #285 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

Does anyone know how good Mitsubishi's Frame Interpolation/Frame Creation processing is on their projectors? I know Sony has a very good reputation for them am curious what Mitsubishi's reputation is based on their projectors that have it.

Also specifically for the HC7800 does anyone know how many levels there are? e.g. off, medium and high? off, low, medium and high?

I agree with coderguy; as per the brochures, etc., it will most likely have the same FI settings as the HC9000D.

Those settings are:

-Off

-True Film: A very mild/subtle FI intended to eliminate judder but keep the 24fps "look" for film-based sources (no soap opera effect). Displays 24fps sources at 96Hz.

(image from cine4home.de)

-True Video: Fast-movement FI intended to enhance video-based sources for a smoother, more realistic look. Displays 60fps sources at 120Hz.

(image from cine4home.de)
post #286 of 421
Anyone heard if the 3D emitter and any glasses are included with the projector?
post #287 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

It looks like they will come with an emitter and one pair of glasses. We will have extra pairs of Mits glasses available for sale.

Posted earlier
post #288 of 421
I saw that post earlier but "it looks like" doesn't sound the same as "it comes with". I e-mailed Mark after I saw that posting and he said he needs to confirm but I haven't heard back yet.
post #289 of 421
It comes with the emitter and one pair of glasses.
post #290 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

It comes with the emitter and one pair of glasses.

Mark,
Do you have a price on an extra pair of glasses?
post #291 of 421
Anyone care to guess what kind of native contrast ratio the HC7800D will have (iris closed; dynamic iris off)? If it's anything like some of the other DC3 projectors in its price range, I'm guessing 4000:1 or so.
post #292 of 421
Here are the discrepancies I've noticed so far on http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/hc7800d/ :

-100,000:1 vs 30,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio

-RGBRGB vs. RGBWYC color wheel

-HC7800D still not showing up on the Mitsubishi throw distance calculator link

I'm wondering if this means there are still some engineering tweaks happening, even though it's super close to shipping.
post #293 of 421
Do we know if HC7800 has screen size setup (2.35 and 16:9) and Aspect button on remote like HC4000 has and way to digitally shift image all the way to top for ceiling mount CIH?
post #294 of 421
Give Mike, Benito, or me a call. We are taking both preorders and orders. We have pricing which includes free shipping to the lower 48. The machine comes with the emitter and 1 pr of 3D shutter glasses. Extra pairs of glasses can be ordered from us.

When you call us we will discuss your use of a HP screen and this projector and its mounting requirements rather than discuss such here.
post #295 of 421
Will this unit have any horizontal lens shift?
post #296 of 421
Here are some really disappointing figures posted by Ptettinen. I think I'll be looking at something else.

"BrilliantColor and especially HighBrightness color temp both increase light output with a smaller rise in black level, thus improving on/off. I did not say the resulting image remains watchable when using settings for maximum lumens and on/off.

An example of how certain settings affect on/off etc.:

BrilliantColor ON, gamma CINEMA, color temp 3D, DI OFF, lamp ECO
black 3.1989 cdm
white 3656.1227 cdm
on/off ~1143:1

BrilliantColor ON, gamma CINEMA, color temp HighBrightness, DI OFF, lamp ECO
black 4.0749 cdm
white 7720.8084 cdm
on/off ~1895:1"
post #297 of 421
Its readings by one person off of a preproduction sample. I do have extra glass pricing. Please email me for it. Remember that all the TI DLPhips, whether the DC2, DC3, or DC4 are getting a bit old and there have been no improvements to them to my knowledge So one wouldn't expect much of an increase in the native on offs from old models to new models using the same chips. DIs, whatever they are called, Dynamic Black et al, can be improved with better algs and different settings with respect to aggressiveness, and could cause increases to on/off specs which with respect to DLP machines are quoted by manufacturers with the DIs on and set to the maximum agressiveness that is user selectable. Increases to ANSI CR would be possible but measurement of same is quite variable depending on a high variety of factors and I wouldn't rely on anybodies measurements of same.
post #298 of 421
The measurements were taken in high brightness and 3D mode with BC on.
I am not sure why that person measured only those two modes.
post #299 of 421
You are being too nice, saying not sure when you don't have a clue. Sorry Petri. We still love you and respect your comments.
post #300 of 421
Looks like the official release date of HC7800 in Japan is December 12. Wonder whether it'll affect the shipping date in the US?

http://translate.google.com/translat...26prmd%3Dimvns
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