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Integra DHC-80.3 - Page 68

post #2011 of 3703
4/6/12 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

Keith,

I'll check that out.

I'll be interested in your findings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

I should mention though that I have watched a lot of different movies from different sources and my image in regards to "White" looks excellent.

Oh yes, it will. It's only when you do a direct comparison you even notice it. The extra warmth is undeniable, but it's not a picture spoiler by any means. Some may even prefer it. But you have gone to a lot of trouble and considerable expense with your fabulous HT room and you have paid (I assume) for a professional calibration of that amazing Runco. It would be a shame to undo the calibrator's good work with a bug in the 80.3. I guess there is a small possibility that the calibrator did the cal with the 80.3 set in the Through mode (if he went through the AVR at all) and if he did, then it will be properly set to 6503k or whatever it is meant to be. I would imagine though that he did the cal from a pattern generator direct to the Runco.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

And believe me since I read the Post on the "Warmer" white images I have really been paying very close attention to the "White".

I believe you. But you probably won't notice it unless you switch from Through to Direct/Custom. I actually have a different colour balance in each eye. My left eye is a cooler balance than my right eye - if I open and close one at time, in turn, I can see a white piece of paper go from white to slightly off white. So which is right? Both my eyes are human <<img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />> and either one could be matched identically to the other - if it was the the left, then everything would be cool, if it was the right, everything would be warm. We're not talking deal breakers here. Displays have several colour temp settings precisely because preference comes into it a lot. [/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

If I leave my settings right where they are I have no complaints on the "White" part of the Picture.

Terry

And nor should you! But try switching from one to the other as I suggested and see what you find, if anything. It's interesting and only takes a moment to set up.
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post #2012 of 3703
4/6/12 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

It was the "the difference is remarkable" that I don't jive with mostly.

I probably should have said "for the overwhelming majority, the difference is remarkable". There will always be exceptions I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Just from my own experiences, I would say if someone has the room properly setup up and treated, there is no huge difference in sound

Sure. If one had a 'perfect' room, then Audyssey would make no difference at all - it would have nothing to 'do'. And the closer the approach to perfection, the less one will notice the 'MultEQ effect' I guess. But how many people even come close to perfection with their rooms? As Fitz says above, it is very difficult and very costly and very time-consuming to treat a room properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

My JTR stuff just looses it's edge with audyssey, not to say that out weights the benefits that it gives but it looses it's in your face attitude that I love so much. It's just my preference. I did a guys system about 2 weeks ago, full sim audio setup and Danely speakers. We did the audyssey pro setup and he hated it lol. He still paid me but I was with him, audyssey took the life right out of his system. Though I must say, it was by far the best HT I've ever been in. Amazing!

It's strange that Audyssey would cause the symptoms you mention. I have never had " ultra high efficiency" speakers - horns and the like. I find them way too *much* "in your face", so there's clearly a strong preference factor coming into play there. I find them peaky and harsh* and I’d expect Audyssey would 'tame' them, which is maybe what you dislike. Audyssey will give a flat curve (music curve) and perhaps that is what you don't like about the result. It's a preference thing...

* Djbluemax explained some time back in this thread that it was perhaps because I was listening to them too close in too small a room, and I can see why that would be so, so maybe this explains my own preference here.
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post #2013 of 3703
4/6/12 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Contrary to another opinion here, to me Audyssey makes a night/day difference. The sound is actually more compressed and non- dynamic with it off, owing to the effects of room-induced peaks/nulls, which it largely cures. That, and the time domain EQ, which Audyssey is built upon. I use it for EVERYTHING, and my listening is slanted <................snip..............>

I cannot think of a better way to make a huge positive difference in your sound for music and movies, if greater faithfulness to the sound encoded on the disk is your bag. That is, if you want to hear better what the mixing/mastering engineers themselves heard.

+1 to all of it.
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post #2014 of 3703
4/6/12 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

In all the systems I have done, Audyssey absolutely cured bass muddiness, boominess, hangover, etc. and made the bass quite superlative. It also corrected higher frequency issues, taming peaks and more usually lifted response dips from over damping, etc. The resulting sound was much more coherent, natural and lifelike to all listeners, against their considerable concert going experience.

So, I and everyone who has heard any of these systems, including my own, is a firm believer. As little as 60 seconds of comparative listening was all it took. It was that obvious.

My room is unusable without Audyssey. It is almost exactly square for a start and without MultEQ (especially the XT32 variant) the bass is just horrible. There would be nothing I could do to improve it. I already have two good subs, placed where they work best and the room is too small for massive treatments. Turn MultEQ on, the bass is tight, controlled, tuneful etc. Turn MultEQ off and it is a flabby, unlistenable mess.
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post #2015 of 3703
4/6/12 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

...when you put the speaker in bi-amp mode, can you equalize the high and low end signal separately within Audyssey?...

No you cannot. Whatever channel is biamped, the same signal goes out to both sets of speaker posts. It is basically a useless feature for several reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

...If the main speakers and front wide speakers are very different, will overall sound be better with a 7.2 setup instead of 9.2? ... My main fear is that front-wides and front highs will ruin the sound of an already holographic soundstage.

I had brief experience with mismatched DSX wides at a certain point during ongoing HT upgrades when I had just added Dali Helicons FR/L and CC and then placed my old Polk towers in DSX wides array. At the time I was using in-wall Polk surrounds which were too high on the wall so there was a fairly close timbre-match from wides to surrounds though no timbre-match to the Helicons, obviouslys. My impression was that Audyssey XT (Denon AVR4310) did do a pretty good job of timbre-matching all speakers, widening the sense of space in the room and creating an overall improved surround bubble, but only for film soundtrack content. However, once I replaced the Polk towers and in-wall surrounds with 2 pairs of exact timbre-match Helicon direct-firing surrounds, the overall level of integration and detail improved considerably. So the recommendation to timbre-match speakers applies. Audyssey can do a better job the more alike your speakers are. You can see in the photo the black Polk towers next to the cherry, bookshelf size Heli on a stand and the surround Heli on a taller stand under the in-wall Polk surround.

Later I upgraded to XT32 (Denon AVRA100/4311) and added a Pro calibration. The level of holographic imaging, bass impact, surround bubble integration and detail improved even more considerably. Now, comparing 5.2 vs 7.2(DSXWides) during films I am really not all that impressed with the DSX effect.

As to non-film content, I listen critically in native format and my system is optimized for stereo and MC music. I have found very, very little music content which I prefer with DSX Wides engaged. It does widen the front soundstage but in a way that distorts the placement of the instruments. BTW, FilmMixer has said he doesn't like them for film because of a similar reason.
LL
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post #2016 of 3703
4/6/12 at 9:10am
Hi guys, going back to the RLO - reference level offset - for a moment.......I, like many others, do not listen to BD movies lossless tracks at a reference level of 0 db. It can be a little too loud, again, personal preference.
The loudest I listen to my movies is -17 db which is (65 out of 99). So, given this criteria, and if I understood the manual, setting the Audyssey dynamic EQ (RLO to 15) would be the best setting given my max volume of -17 db for movies. Is this correct ? Or did I not understand the manual.

Yesterday I was listening to "Terminator Salvation", opening scene when Connor lands with the helicopter....... I was hard pressed trying to distinguish which settings I preferred. With Audyssey dynamic EQ ON (RLO to 15) vs Audyssey dynamic EQ (OFF), the tracks sounded almost identical, with perhaps the surrounds sounding a little "hot" with dynamic EQ ON. I tried setting the RLO to 10 and 5, but it did not sound right to me. Again the volume was kept at -17 db, for the comparisons.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Paul
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post #2017 of 3703
4/6/12 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

Hi guys, going back to the RLO - reference level offset - for a moment.......I, like many others, do not listen to BD movies lossless tracks at a reference level of 0 db. It can be a little too loud, again, personal preference.
The loudest I listen to my movies is -17 db which is (65 out of 99). So, given this criteria, and if I understood the manual, setting the Audyssey dynamic EQ (RLO to 15) would be the best setting given my max volume of -17 db for movies. Is this correct ? Or did I not understand the manual.

Yesterday I was listening to "Terminator Salvation", opening scene when Connor lands with the helicopter....... I was hard pressed trying to distinguish which settings I preferred. With Audyssey dynamic EQ ON (RLO to 15) vs Audyssey dynamic EQ (OFF), the tracks sounded almost identical, with perhaps the surrounds sounding a little "hot" with dynamic EQ ON. I tried setting the RLO to 10 and 5, but it did not sound right to me. Again the volume was kept at -17 db, for the comparisons.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Paul

If you are listening at -17 with a RLO of 15dB then DEQ is almost off - it has no effect at reference level - usually 0dB but you offset it to -15dB. That is why there was almost no difference.

3. What is Reference Level Offset (RLO) in Dynamic EQ? (click here)
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post #2018 of 3703
4/6/12 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

I know it is easy to purchase a kit of room treatments, and it is quite possible that it will yield some improvement. However, having researched off the shelf treatments extensively, I repeat that essentially none of them address room modal behavior below 100Hz, which is where the modes are at their worst. For that, you need either really big, home made bass traps or custom designed and built Helmholtz resonators. And, as I said, how do you know what the final result really is without measurements? Measurement in room acoustics is critical, and doing that properly requires some expertise well beyond a Ratshack meter or even a fancy PC-based measurement system.

Rew and a hours worth of EQ can tame some pretty bad nulls and peaks. You don't give some people enough credit. And I DO have measurements, before and after room treatments. The treatments have done their job and eq'ing under 100hz has done it's job also. Some of us have fun doing this kinda stuff. Sure having a pro come in and doing raw measurements would be sweet but common man, some decent equipment and a good mic will get you good results. You can just use the argument that it has to be a pro, thats silly. Then audyssey would fall into the same thing.

Getting everything perfect is just not going to happen from any of our rooms, sure it what some strive for but it's a losing battle for all but the select few and even then....
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post #2019 of 3703
4/6/12 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I probably should have said "for the overwhelming majority, the difference is remarkable". There will always be exceptions I guess.



Sure. If one had a 'perfect' room, then Audyssey would make no difference at all - it would have nothing to 'do'. And the closer the approach to perfection, the less one will notice the 'MultEQ effect' I guess. But how many people even come close to perfection with their rooms? As Fitz says above, it is very difficult and very costly and very time-consuming to treat a room properly.



It's strange that Audyssey would cause the symptoms you mention. I have never had " ultra high efficiency" speakers - horns and the like. I find them way too *much* "in your face", so there's clearly a strong preference factor coming into play there. I find them peaky and harsh* and I’d expect Audyssey would 'tame' them, which is maybe what you dislike. Audyssey will give a flat curve (music curve) and perhaps that is what you don't like about the result. It's a preference thing...

* Djbluemax explained some time back in this thread that it was perhaps because I was listening to them too close in too small a room, and I can see why that would be so, so maybe this explains my own preference here.

I know it's a preference thing but what I'm getting at it exactly that. you guys can't assume that your preferences are what everyone else wants/likes, it's just not the case. I've listened to peoples rooms before I've done the pro calibration and though it was horrid and after, though it sounded great but that doesn't mean thats what owner thinks, who knows what they may do to it after I've left. Too many people take for grantedroom correction and think it's the holy grail but it still has a long was to go. Have you guys ever done an actual measurement after audyssey is done? lol, it's usually not even close to the graph they estimate but most of the time, it's still an improvement from what was there before. Whether that sounds good or bad for the user is up to him.
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post #2020 of 3703
4/6/12 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

... My JTR stuff sounds much more dynamic without audyssey on...

Audyssey does indeed make it sound overall less dynamic if you have Dynamic Volume on, as that applies compression. Or perhaps you're using the word in a different sense.

BTW, the 2nd "to" in your sig should be "too".
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post #2021 of 3703
4/6/12 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Rew and a hours worth of EQ can tame some pretty bad nulls and peaks. You don't give some people enough credit. And I DO have measurements, before and after room treatments. The treatments have done their job and eq'ing under 100hz has done it's job also. Some of us have fun doing this kinda stuff. Sure having a pro come in and doing raw measurements would be sweet but common man, some decent equipment and a good mic will get you good results. You can just use the argument that it has to be a pro, thats silly. Then audyssey would fall into the same thing.

Getting everything perfect is just not going to happen from any of our rooms, sure it what some strive for but it's a losing battle for all but the select few and even then....

Again, I have looked carefully at the specs for a lot of off the shelf bass traps. I still say none of them do much below 100Hz according to their own specs. Can you point us to one that does?
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post #2022 of 3703
4/6/12 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Again, I have looked carefully at the specs for a lot of off the shelf bass traps. I still say none of them do much below 100Hz according to their own specs. Can you point us to one that does?

I never said anything about base traps. I said you can EQ out your peaks and nulls to an extent, I mean if they are 25 dB swings, then maybe not but you can still make them better.
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post #2023 of 3703
4/6/12 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Audyssey does indeed make it sound overall less dynamic if you have Dynamic Volume on, as that applies compression. Or perhaps you're using the word in a different sense.

BTW, the 2nd "to" in your sig should be "too".

Nothing to do with DV.

BTW the extra "o" is in the mail for you, so you can hang it on your wall and see every day how awesome it felt to correct someones use of the word too.

feels soooooo good!
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post #2024 of 3703
4/6/12 at 11:14pm
How are most hear setting their delay, on auto or manual?

I would like to use auto but sometimes I feel it is out on alot of material...
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post #2025 of 3703
4/7/12 at 4:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Nothing to do with DV.
BTW the extra "o" is in the mail for you, so you can hang it on your wall and see every day how awesome it felt to correct someones use of the word too.
feels soooooo good!

Easy, N8, it was not meant as a slight at all. We're all busy and make typos. As this one appears in every post you make, I thought you'd appreciate being made aware.

But while we're on the subject, someone who's charging to do Pro calibrations might want to spell "bass" correctly.
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post #2026 of 3703
4/7/12 at 4:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I know it's a preference thing but what I'm getting at it exactly that. you guys can't assume that your preferences are what everyone else wants/likes, it's just not the case.

Preference doesn't really come into it for me. I am striving for a reference result. Once I am sure I have achieved reference, or as close as I can get to it in my room, then I raise the sub level by 3dB. That's it. I don't touch anything else. I am, IOW, completely happy with the way Audyssey EQs my room and system, but I prefer a little more thump from my bass (this is for movies only). I could never listen with Audyssey off, because the sound in my room is then unlistenable-to. As to other folks' preferences, well I don't care. It's up to them how they adjust their system in their room - it's their room, their ears, their money etc and whatever makes them happy is great by me. When I comment in the threads here, I am only trying to help people use Audyssey in the way it was intended to be used, as I understand it, and to help them achieve a reference calibration. I'd never presume to tell anyone how they ought to use their system. I think that goes for most/all of the other regular posters here too. Once reference has been achieved, then preference is fine (as Chris used to say often).

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I've listened to peoples rooms before I've done the pro calibration and thought it was horrid and after, thought it sounded great but that doesn't mean thats what owner thinks, who knows what they may do to it after I've left.

I'd say that was entirely normal. You can only do what the program is intended to do: achieve reference. If someone doesn't like reference, then that is preference and is fine, for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Too many people take for grantedroom correction and think it's the holy grail but it still has a long was to go. Have you guys ever done an actual measurement after audyssey is done? lol, it's usually not even close to the graph they estimate but most of the time, it's still an improvement from what was there before. Whether that sounds good or bad for the user is up to him.

I don't see any disagreement between us on this. You are simply saying that some people have preferences which they prefer over reference. That's fine.

The main issue I have is that you have said that with certain types of speakers, Audyssey cannot achieve or approach a reference result. To me that means there is something wrong with the technique used (possibly), or the room is so utterly bad that nothing can improve it (unlikely), or that you have found an as-yet undiscovered bug in Audyssey when used with very efficient speakers (interestingly). If it is the latter, it's something I have never heard of before - there are many people in this thread and others who use horn speakers like Klipsch etc and who have used Audyssey with great success.

What I really think <<img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />> is that you just have a strong preference for a certain type of sound and when Audyssey removes that type of sound, you dislike the result. That is fine too of course, but it isn't an Audyssey problem.

I have a friend who has some (fairly old but expensive) JBL speakers in his stereo system. He absolutely loves the sound they make. To me, they make everything sound like a disco. They are way from reproducing the source anything like accurately, but he totally loves them. I can listen to them for about 10 minutes and then my ears start to cave in. But he loves them, and really that is all that matters.
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post #2027 of 3703
4/7/12 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Easy, N8, it was not meant as a slight at all. We're all busy and make typos. As this one appears in every post you make, I thought you'd appreciate being made aware.

But while we're on the subject, someone who's charging to do Pro calibrations might want to spell "bass" correctly.

What can I say, I don't re-read my post before I post them but that's because I just don't generally care
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post #2028 of 3703
4/7/12 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Preference doesn't really come into it for me. I am striving for a reference result. Once I am sure I have achieved reference, or as close as I can get to it in my room, then I raise the sub level by 3dB. That's it. I don't touch anything else. I am, IOW, completely happy with the way Audyssey EQs my room and system, but I prefer a little more thump from my bass (this is for movies only). I could never listen with Audyssey off, because the sound in my room is then unlistenable-to. As to other folks' preferences, well I don't care. It's up to them how they adjust their system in their room - it's their room, their ears, their money etc and whatever makes them happy is great by me. When I comment in the threads here, I am only trying to help people use Audyssey in the way it was intended to be used, as I understand it, and to help them achieve a reference calibration. I'd never presume to tell anyone how they ought to use their system. I think that goes for most/all of the other regular posters here too. Once reference has been achieved, then preference is fine (as Chris used to say often).



I'd say that was entirely normal. You can only do what the program is intended to do: achieve reference. If someone doesn't like reference, then that is preference and is fine, for them.



I don't see any disagreement between us on this. You are simply saying that some people have preferences which they prefer over reference. That's fine.

The main issue I have is that you have said that with certain types of speakers, Audyssey cannot achieve or approach a reference result. To me that means there is something wrong with the technique used (possibly), or the room is so utterly bad that nothing can improve it (unlikely), or that you have found an as-yet undiscovered bug in Audyssey when used with very efficient speakers (interestingly). If it is the latter, it's something I have never heard of before - there are many people in this thread and others who use horn speakers like Klipsch etc and who have used Audyssey with great success.

What I really think <<img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />> is that you just have a strong preference for a certain type of sound and when Audyssey removes that type of sound, you dislike the result. That is fine too of course, but it isn't an Audyssey problem.

I have a friend who has some (fairly old but expensive) JBL speakers in his stereo system. He absolutely loves the sound they make. To me, they make everything sound like a disco. They are way from reproducing the source anything like accurately, but he totally loves them. I can listen to them for about 10 minutes and then my ears start to cave in. But he loves them, and really that is all that matters.

I've talked with audyssey about the problem and I got the response that the gain on the amp is to high and audyssey can't trim the channels enough to make them the proper levels. My guess is that may come into play during the EQ. When I was running my emotiva xpa-5 and did calibration, all my channels were trimmed to negative max. The gain is very high on emotiva amps but other that adding some other piece of gear in the chain to lower the gain. If they even seem to think that will lead to a problem, who am I to say otherwise.

Also, like I say time and time again, you guys would actually have to try it out first, before you can make the assumptions that something is being done wrong. You guys seem to love audyssey so much you can't believe that there are lots of people who don't like the results they get. But again, like I said before, I still use it because I think the positives outweigh the negatives. It indeed does make for a more balance system but the graph it predicts is nowhere close to what you get in reality I'm afraid.
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post #2029 of 3703
4/7/12 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I've talked with audyssey about the problem and I got the response that the gain on the amp is to high and audyssey can't trim the channels enough to make them the proper levels.

Ah - you never said your trims were maxed out. So you didn't really have a proper Audyssey calibration anyway in that case....

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

My guess is that may come into play during the EQ. When I was running my emotiva xpa-5 and did calibration, all my channels were trimmed to negative max. The gain is very high on emotiva amps but other that adding some other piece of gear in the chain to lower the gain. If they even seem to think that will lead to a problem, who am I to say otherwise.

I doubt that Emotiva amps cause any problem. Certainly none of my four do and I know of a lot of other people who use Audyssey with Emo amps without problems. If you mean the combination of the Emo amps and your very high efficiency speakers, then simple attenuators (pads) would solve that. Passive devices like attenuators won’t have any effect on the sound and this can easily be verified by looking at the signal going in to the pad and the signal coming out: the only difference will be the level (voltage).

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Also, like I say time and time again, you guys would actually have to try it out first, before you can make the assumptions that something is being done wrong.

Try what out first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

You guys seem to love audyssey so much you can't believe that there are lots of people who don't like the results they get.

That's the important word there - "like". As I've said a few times in my replies to you - there is nothing wrong with preference. If you don't like a flat response then that is fine. But you can’t really criticise Audyssey because it doesn't calibrate to your own preferences. It is not supposed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

But again, like I said before, I still use it because I think the positives outweigh the negatives. It indeed does make for a more balance system but the graph it predicts is nowhere close to what you get in reality I'm afraid.

It's not so easy to determine if the 'after' graph is close to an independently measured and produced graph. If you go back even a few pages in this thread you will see that this was the subject of some detailed discussion recently. To get a post-calibration, independent measurement you would have to use the exact same mic positions you used for Audyssey, an identically calibrated mic, and some way to "average" the results in the way Audyssey does. Then you would be able to compare the independent graph with the Audyssey graph. That is not to say that you can't do useful independent measurements to tell you what is happening at the MLP - but that can’t then be compared with the Audyssey graph as you wold be comparing two vastly different things. I don't want to re-open something that was discussed so recently - and others have different views to mine anyway - if you are interested to find out, just look back a few pages.
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post #2030 of 3703
4/7/12 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

How are most hear setting their delay, on auto or manual?

I would like to use auto but sometimes I feel it is out on alot of material...

What delay do you mean?
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post #2031 of 3703
4/7/12 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

What delay do you mean?

lip-sync
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post #2032 of 3703
4/7/12 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

lip-sync

Ah right. First off, the auto lip synch feature only works if the display also supports it. If it does, I guess there is no harm in setting it to Auto in your prepro. If your display does not support it, then you may as well not have it set to Auto.

Are you having lip synch issues then?
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post #2033 of 3703
4/7/12 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Ah right. First off, the auto lip synch feature only works if the display also supports it. If it does, I guess there is no harm in setting it to Auto in your prepro. If your display does not support it, then you may as well not have it set to Auto.

Are you having lip synch issues then?

Well I have the JVC RS65, Im sure that must support lip-sync. But when i set it to auto it often seems "out" to me. Presently I have it set to manual at 160 and it seems pretty good on most discs.
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post #2034 of 3703
4/7/12 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I've talked with audyssey about the problem and I got the response that the gain on the amp is to high and audyssey can't trim the channels enough to make them the proper levels. My guess is that may come into play during the EQ. When I was running my emotiva xpa-5 and did calibration, all my channels were trimmed to negative max. The gain is very high on emotiva amps but other that adding some other piece of gear in the chain to lower the gain. If they even seem to think that will lead to a problem, who am I to say otherwise.

Also, like I say time and time again, you guys would actually have to try it out first, before you can make the assumptions that something is being done wrong. You guys seem to love audyssey so much you can't believe that there are lots of people who don't like the results they get. But again, like I said before, I still use it because I think the positives outweigh the negatives. It indeed does make for a more balance system but the graph it predicts is nowhere close to what you get in reality I'm afraid.

Audyssey does not trim the channels. The prepro does. Audyssey merely reports its calibration level findings to the prepro. I would have thought Audyssey would have told you that and that as an ostensibly practicing Pro calibrator/ installer you would have known that. Limits to the amount of level trim, plus/minus, are purely a function of the prepro. Offhand, I do not know what the Integra's limits are.

If you are not talking about channel level trims, but about relative EQ boost/cut at specific frequencies, then yes, Audyssey has limits to protect the amps/speakers, especially when boosting room nulls. It is a valuable feature.

Your point about individual preference has been conceded here, over and over. But, I would again have thought that as a Pro calibrator, you would be using the target curve editing in Pro for just that purpose.

What mystifies me is a guy who represents himself as a Pro calibrator, but who just does not like Audyssey. Do your clients know this? I would suggest, that if you do not like what it does, that you consider moving on to something better, if in your mind it exists. You might be much happier, less defensive and cynical.

As far as predicted vs. independently measured results are concerned, you have not told us a thing about your independent measurement protocol and instrumentation. Why should we take you seriously? Independent measurements can be either good or bad depending on how they we re taken. But, in any case, two different sets of measurements taken by two different methods using different equipment, mike positions, spatial averaging techniques, etc. are likely to differ. Such is the nature of the beast of room acoustics. So, why do you assume that Audyssey is wrong and your independent measurements are right?
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post #2035 of 3703
4/8/12 at 2:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Well I have the JVC RS65, Im sure that must support lip-sync.

I had a look at the specs and it doesn't mention lip synch anywhere, so maybe it doesn't. Nice PJ though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

But when i set it to auto it often seems "out" to me. Presently I have it set to manual at 160 and it seems pretty good on most discs.

S'all that matters!

I have to say your home theatre is absolutely magnificent. Great job!!
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post #2036 of 3703
4/8/12 at 5:27am
Hi Guys,

I downloaded this thread to re-read it as I cant find what I am looking for. I reaad it in the past but cant find it. I am re-running my audyssey calibration today and have a few questions.

After I run all 8 positions and look at the data, Some of the frequency x-overs are way out there, my fronts (all identical JTR t-12s) show a x-over of center at 145 but left at 45 and right at 60 (all equidistant as well)

Do I leave this alone or change them manually. Has anyone done a setup tutorial specific to the Integra 80.3? Did a little reading in the Audyssey setup thread but that is a monster thread with not everything pertinent to 80.3

If anyone has any suggestions on proper setup advice/tips maybe they can post it and we will get it organized as I am sure someone else will ask again.

As usual,

Thanks,

Peter
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post #2037 of 3703
4/8/12 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpete12 View Post

Hi Guys,

I downloaded this thread to re-read it as I cant find what I am looking for. I reaad it in the past but cant find it. I am re-running my audyssey calibration today and have a few questions.

After I run all 8 positions and look at the data, Some of the frequency x-overs are way out there, my fronts (all identical JTR t-12s) show a x-over of center at 145 but left at 45 and right at 60 (all equidistant as well)

Do I leave this alone or change them manually. Has anyone done a setup tutorial specific to the Integra 80.3? Did a little reading in the Audyssey setup thread but that is a monster thread with not everything pertinent to 80.3

If anyone has any suggestions on proper setup advice/tips maybe they can post it and we will get it organized as I am sure someone else will ask again.

As usual,

Thanks,

Peter

Peter - you should find everything you need in the Audyssey FAQ, linked in my sig.

The specific question you raise is dealt with here:

6. My speakers are the same but Audyssey is setting different crossovers for them. Why? (click here)

1. Why are my Crossovers set differently to what my speaker manufacturer's specification suggests they should be? (click here)

2. I often see advice to change the crossovers from what Audyssey has set to 80Hz. Why is this? Has Audyssey ‘got it wrong’? (click here)
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post #2038 of 3703
4/8/12 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post


I never said anything about base traps. I said you can EQ out your peaks and nulls to an extent, I mean if they are 25 dB swings, then maybe not but you can still make them better.

Well nulls can really only be handled by bass traps or moving the listener or speakers. No amount of eq can fix a null. Others can chime in if I am wrong.
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post #2039 of 3703
4/8/12 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Well nulls can really only be handled by bass traps or moving the listener or speakers. No amount of eq can fix a null. Others can chime in if I am wrong.

Big nulls are certainly a problem - and best resolved with traps as you say. Otherwise the danger is that the amp is asked to do more and more, to no avail, until it eventually gives up. Boom!
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post #2040 of 3703
4/8/12 at 2:54pm
KBarnes:

thanks, that helped quite a bit. I do have a question. Audyssey is setting my surrounds (mk-150's dipole) to 40 hz. There is no way these little speakers are handling these low bass freq's. I have two seaton submersives. Should I change everything to 80, or maybe just the rears, or leave them as is.
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