Integra DHC-80.3 - Page 69

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

Big nulls are certainly a problem - and best resolved with traps as you say. Otherwise the danger is that the amp is asked to do more and more, to no avail, until it eventually gives up. Boom!

Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215

Audyssey does not trim the channels. The prepro does. Audyssey merely reports its calibration level findings to the prepro. I would have thought Audyssey would have told you that and that as an ostensibly practicing Pro calibrator/ installer you would have known that. Limits to the amount of level trim, plus/minus, are purely a function of the prepro. Offhand, I do not know what the Integra's limits are.

If you are not talking about channel level trims, but about relative EQ boost/cut at specific frequencies, then yes, Audyssey has limits to protect the amps/speakers, especially when boosting room nulls. It is a valuable feature.

Your point about individual preference has been conceded here, over and over. But, I would again have thought that as a Pro calibrator, you would be using the target curve editing in Pro for just that purpose.

What mystifies me is a guy who represents himself as a Pro calibrator, but who just does not like Audyssey. Do your clients know this? I would suggest, that if you do not like what it does, that you consider moving on to something better, if in your mind it exists. You might be much happier, less defensive and cynical.

As far as predicted vs. independently measured results are concerned, you have not told us a thing about your independent measurement protocol and instrumentation. Why should we take you seriously? Independent measurements can be either good or bad depending on how they we re taken. But, in any case, two different sets of measurements taken by two different methods using different equipment, mike positions, spatial averaging techniques, etc. are likely to differ. Such is the nature of the beast of room acoustics. So, why do you assume that Audyssey is wrong and your independent measurements are right?

Originally Posted by drpete12

KBarnes:

thanks, that helped quite a bit. I do have a question. Audyssey is setting my surrounds (mk-150's dipole) to 40 hz. There is no way these little speakers are handling these low bass freq's. I have two seaton submersives. Should I change everything to 80, or maybe just the rears, or leave them as is.

Originally Posted by N8DOGG

Ya for your average joe running a B&M sub with a plate amp and receiver power. For lots of us, we run so excessive that it would have to be a pretty extreme to not be about to EQ fairly flat with electronics alone. Traps can only do so much but as fitz says, there are no traps that work under 100hz so the ONLY way to EQ is electronic

Originally Posted by N8DOGG

lol, I never said I didn't edit the curve but isn't personal preference the whole reason to use audyssey in the first place?

Originally Posted by drpete12

Kbarnes:

I will turn the sides and rears to 80hz. I cant remember what the others were, but I think the center is 100hz should that goto 80 as well (the speaker will easily handle 60 and up)?

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

No! It's exactly NOT that! The reason to use Audyssey is to try to achieve reference!

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

There's no way you'll EQ out a 20 or 30 dB null with electronics. Certainly not with Audyssey as it is designed specifically NOT to even try, for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by N8DOGG

Ya because everyone runs movies at reference? I bet if you took a poll, it would be under 10% of people run movies at reference or even had that as a goal when using audyssey. Most people run it because 1. It's there and why not. 2. try to get the best sound possible out of their equipment with the tools they have. I've personally never heard anyone running audyssey to try to achieve reference. Not to say NO one does but it's not something anyone I've ever talked to has ever brought up.

Originally Posted by drpete12

KBarnes:

thanks, that helped quite a bit. I do have a question. Audyssey is setting my surrounds (mk-150's dipole) to 40 hz. There is no way these little speakers are handling these low bass freq's. I have two seaton submersives. Should I change everything to 80, or maybe just the rears, or leave them as is.

Originally Posted by N8DOGG

Ya because everyone runs movies at reference? I bet if you took a poll, it would be under 10% of people run movies at reference or even had that as a goal when using audyssey. Most people run it because 1. It's there and why not. 2. try to get the best sound possible out of their equipment with the tools they have. I've personally never heard anyone running audyssey to try to achieve reference. Not to say NO one does but it's not something anyone I've ever talked to has ever brought up.

Originally Posted by N8DOGG

Thats an extreme null and I said all but the extreme. Not many room will have 20-30dB null but with a dcx2496 or miniDSP, you'd be able to make a good dent out of the nulls and peaks as long as you have some half decent gear that isn't already being pushed to it's limits.
I'm gonna take a wild guess and bet you've never tried either one? Most us DIY guys use these in our systems because of the HPF and the eq.

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

Hi Terry.

Yes you can test it without using Direct mode. Make sure you have Source set in the Input Output Assign menu. I think you do already.

Then go to Source Settings menu and go to Picture Adjust. On the Resolution setting, move through the settings until you get to 'Custom'. In that section make sure all the settings are at default but set Res to THROUGH. Back out of the menus.

Now put on a disc and find a screen with a fair bit of white content on it. Pause the disc at that screen.

Then go into the Home menu on the remote and click down to Video. There you will see that you can now switch modes from Through to Direct, Custom etc. What you need to do is first select Through and note the colour of the white part of the image. Then scroll along to Custom (where you also set Through, so it should stay the same) and you will see the white area of the image go whiter. IOW, the colour balance will go from warmer to cooler.

Custom is passing it correctly (as is Direct) and Through is giving a warm bias.

If you see the difference and you want to stay with the 'purer' white colour balance, simply select Custom in Picture Adjust for that source for future use. Make sure you have all the other bits of the custom setting set appropriately (probably all defaults).

Let me know how you get on. I'd guess this is something Onkyo can fix with a FW update once they acknowledge the issue.

EDIT: you may prefer the warmer balance of course. That's why screens etc have colour balance settings. But if your display has been calibrated, and I am guessing it has, then you will want it to be spot on I'd think. I mentioned before that I preferred the warmer tone, but I was using Hugo as a test disc and that has a lovely golden cast over much of the photography in the film and the Through setting enhanced it. I have since made sure I am using Direct for all relevant sources.

Originally Posted by tigerhonaker

Keith, ... Well last night while watching something it just happened to come up with really Large Bold White Letters and I decided this would let me test the image for Whiteness.
This was on Dish HD watching CSI Miami.
I also tested this then with a Blu-Ray Disc, WOW ...

So the one setting (Input Output Assign menu) was "Source".
Then went down to picture and changed it back and forth between "Through" and "Custom".

This might Surprise you and it is going to not be easy for me to put into words but this is what took place.

The "Through" setting is like a (Softer, Dimmer, Off-White) sort of White Image.

Originally Posted by tigerhonaker


The {Custom} setting immediately with my Runco VX-11d just goes Crazy-White on the screen.
The Runco VX-11d is a Light-Engine .........
It is so much "Difference" that the image actually in {Custom} is just "Brilliant" to the eyes.
It was such a difference with my Runco producing the Light-Output it does you had to adjust to the New {Custom} setting.

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

Yes - a slight yellowing of the whites as the balance veers off towards red. Like I said before, you don't really notice it so much until you see the comparison. This is one reason why displays really need to be calibrated rather than set by 'eye'. The human eye is very sensitive to some things and not very sensitive to others, so setting by eye is never reliable. Your experience here is the proof of that - until you saw 'true white' you were happy with the warm white.



One thing you probably ought to check with your installer, Terry, is what inputs/settings he was using when he did the calibration. If he calibrated it with the unit set to Through, then he will have balanced out the warmness which is being introduced by the bug. If he did, then the Custom setting may well be too bright for the room. A calibrator will calibrate to a light level used in the room when viewing (or to a Day and Night mode if the room is multi-purpose), so your guy will have probably calibrated to a typical dark theater. If he did that and used the Through setting, it will still be correct - he will have compensated for the artificial warmth introduced by the bug.

Or of course, he may have calibrated to Direct (most likely) in which case your Custom setting is also correct as Custom with a Res of Through is the same as Direct if all the other settings are left untouched. I understand you can't use Direct mode due to handshake issues. If your calibrator did calibrate to Direct then Custom is the mode you want to be using now.

I understand you can't use Direct mode due to handshake issues. If your calibrator did calibrate to Direct then Custom is the mode you want to be using now.

Originally Posted by tigerhonaker

Keith, ...


He used "Direct" for calibration with the Runco set-up.
We did not know there was going to be an issue with "Hand-Shake" issues until we loaded in a Blu-Ray movie.
It still worked but just took way to long to "Lock" onto the Blu-Ray from Dish/Satellite source.
So we then changed from Direct and put it on "Through" which worked fine as far as the "Hand-Shake" issue.

I would not have known to be honest to even check the White Image.
It looked just fine to be honest until I took the Time to Switch between the "Through & Custom" modes.

There is a Big difference when going to Custom with the Runco having the Light Output it does.
And that is even lighting up my 123" screen.

The Blu-Ray movies now have what is referred to as that WOW factor in certain Scenes.

Glad I read this here on AVS and took the Time to check it out.

Regards,
Terry

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

I thought he would have used Direct. Then you are good to go, Terry. Custom (as you have set it) is the same as Direct.

Originally Posted by tigerhonaker

Keith,

Yes it works the same in regards to not changing the picture at all.

I did take the time to call and let my Integra Dealer know of this situation.

All is A-OK on this end now with Snow White once again.

Sure am glad I kept up with this on going Thread.

Terry

Originally Posted by njfoses


I use direct for my bluray source but for directv and wii i would rather have the avr upscale everything to 1080p (which now works without handshake issues after altering the power on sequence of my devices.) I run hdmi and im on the latest firmware. I can use the custom 1080p setting and this conversation becomes a mute point but like kbarnes stated there is no reason the through setting should be altering the color temp.

Originally Posted by op76

What's the proper powering sequence to avoid handshake issues: TV, 80.3 and the cable box?

Originally Posted by 04rex

hey Guys, i was thinking of getting this unit...So, I was just wondering if there are any known issues with the 80.3? Is there anything that people constantly have problems with or complain about? I am not referring to personal preferences as everybody has their own tastes. I am referring to actual problems with the unit, like it freezes, or doesnt change inputs or pops or whatever. Any well known issues with this model?