Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 
I am not a lawyer either. The real point is you will not find Integra prices online because of the contract between Integra and their officially franchised dealers. The dealers are not permitted to do so under that contract. This is also the case for many other high end brands. There is nothing illegal about that. Onkyo, is of course, entirely different, and apparently does not restrict online price ads by their dealers.
I am not a lawyer either. The real point is you will not find Integra prices online because of the contract between Integra and their officially franchised dealers. The dealers are not permitted to do so under that contract. This is also the case for many other high end brands. There is nothing illegal about that. Onkyo, is of course, entirely different, and apparently does not restrict online price ads by their dealers.
Sure - Onkyo/Integra can place any (legal) restrictions they like on their dealers. The point is that the consumer should not be expected to know what the details of the manufacturer/dealer/retailer contracts are, and therefore they cannot be penalised by the withdrawal of the warranty for buying a product that falls outside those contractual details to which they (the consumers) are not a party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215
I do not know how an online dealer would even obtain an Integra product for resale if he is not contractually franchised by Integra USA. The only likely possibility is as "gray goods", sourcing a potentially non-US spec product from overseas, i.e., not from Integra USA. I do not think there is anything illegal about Integra USA denying warranty priviledges for non-Integra USA distributed products.
I do not know how an online dealer would even obtain an Integra product for resale if he is not contractually franchised by Integra USA. The only likely possibility is as "gray goods", sourcing a potentially non-US spec product from overseas, i.e., not from Integra USA. I do not think there is anything illegal about Integra USA denying warranty priviledges for non-Integra USA distributed products.
It's not a matter of illegality as such - it's a civil issue in all likelihood. Under law, manufacturers are obliged to provide certain warranties with their products. Those warranties *are* legally binding, regardless of what other warranties the manufacturer may choose to offer. I cannot see how a manufacturer can deny a customer his legal rights of warranty protection simply because the customer bought a product from a retailer who was not a party to a contractual arrangement with the manufacturer. The customer is not expected to know what these contractual details are, and thus no court would uphold this denial or warranty on that basis. If the product had been sourced from overseas, then the issue is different because the product would not necessarily be type-approved for that market and could have characteristics that rendered it unsuitable for operation in other markets - e.g. a 240 volt power supply would not be acceptable to a US customer and the unit would not perform properly or be damaged. That would not be covered by warranty for obvious reasons. But units bought inside the US would be covered IMO regardless of who sold the unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215
Its the same with cars or other products. If you are overseas and buy a new BMW directly from, say, a German dealer, there is no obligation legally for BMW USA or their US dealers to honor any warranties if you bring it back into the US. It would not be US spec, anyway.
Its the same with cars or other products. If you are overseas and buy a new BMW directly from, say, a German dealer, there is no obligation legally for BMW USA or their US dealers to honor any warranties if you bring it back into the US. It would not be US spec, anyway.
The reason there is what you say in your last sentence - the product would not be type-approved for the US market in that example. If you buy a new BMW from any dealer in the USA, regardless of whether they are an "official" dealer or not, BMW would be forced to uphold their warranty IMO. As I say, the customer is not required (and would not be allowed in all probability) to be privy to the contractual arrangements between manufacturer and retailer.
How, for example, would you go about discovering if the retailer you are thinking of buying a new Integra 80.3 from is an "authorised" dealer? No good asking the dealer - they might tell your they are when they are not. You won't be allowed to see the contracts between Integra and their dealers for obvious commercial reasons. No use looking on the Onkyo website as they list authorised dealers but the lists are out of date and incorrect. There is no reasonable way you could be expected to know if Joe Smith is an authorised dealer or not and the courts would regard it as unreasonable that you should have to jump through hoops to find out before you make your purchase. Heck, there is no real reason why anyone should even *know* that there is such a thing as an 'authorised dealer'.
I bet there is not a single instance of a consumer being denied warranty by Integra or Onkyo on these grounds. Certainly I couldn't find any via Google.
