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Integra DHC-80.3 - Page 106

post #3151 of 4252
Well I've officially jumped ship from my 80.3 this weekend to a Denon 4520. 4K passthrough to my VW1000 is now functional from my HTPC and I've finally solved HDMI intermittent audio dropouts from HTPC, which may have even been thanks to a registry tweak as I was still getting them in a less pronounced form, exacerbated whenever the PC wasn't playing in 'fullscreen' mode with the 4520. Sonically the XT32 sounds pretty much identical. They share the same model Audessey mic - even used my already tripod mounted one from the 80.3 to save time.
post #3152 of 4252
4520 ... no xlr man, not good.
post #3153 of 4252
Thanks kbarnes and Seldon!
post #3154 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

4520 ... no xlr man, not good.

I've lived through XLR, then no XLR. It was my first Integra that forced be back to RCA/RCA into my amps when I swapped out my Meridian. Years later, I still don't miss XLR, not making or breaking my world sonically.
post #3155 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

4520 ... no xlr man, not good.

I've lived through XLR, then no XLR. It was my first Integra that forced be back to RCA/RCA into my amps when I swapped out my Meridian. Years later, I still don't miss XLR, not making or breaking my world sonically.

No XLR is a deal breaker for me.
post #3156 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

No XLR is a deal breaker for me.

You're really that sensitive about XLR's? I have gone from Meridian with and without XLR to Integra where I never reinstated XLRs as I there was no issues sonically not having them in my system. Maybe it's because my preout-amp cable runs are so short (1m each channel) that balanced XLRs don't affect my setup.
post #3157 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

No XLR is a deal breaker for me.

You're really that sensitive about XLR's? I have gone from Meridian with and without XLR to Integra where I never reinstated XLRs as I there was no issues sonically not having them in my system. Maybe it's because my preout-amp cable runs are so short (1m each channel) that balanced XLRs don't affect my setup.

I have a few pieces of Pro Audio gear that require XLR connectivity - my active speakers also have XLR inputs.
post #3158 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

I have a few pieces of Pro Audio gear that require XLR connectivity - my active speakers also have XLR inputs.

Got your point there. Then indeed you are at the 'deal breaker' scenario, fair enough. Obviously with active XLR based speakers your hands are very much tied.
post #3159 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

4520 ... no xlr man, not good.

No XLR is also no great loss. Having XLR connections in a AV device is way over rated!
post #3160 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

4520 ... no xlr man, not good.

No XLR is also no great loss. Having XLR connections in a AV device is way over rated!

 

There's no benefit in XLR cables if the system doesn't exhibit noise due to cables picking up interference. Studios use XLR because their cable runs are very long and their environment is crammed full of electronics - if you're not suffering cable-born noise, then XLR has no benefits sound wise at all. The connector is mechanically better though.

post #3161 of 4252
Keith, you are mostly right but there is one circumstance when XLR/balanced makes sense, that is when connecting a pro amp that requires more than .9 volt to reach full output. Some pre-pros/receivers do put out sufficient voltage, many don't.
post #3162 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Keith, you are mostly right but there is one circumstance when XLR/balanced makes sense, that is when connecting a pro amp that requires more than .9 volt to reach full output. Some pre-pros/receivers do put out sufficient voltage, many don't.

 

Good point, Theresa. I was really trying to put to bed the myth that somehow balanced cables 'sound better' than unbalanced ones. A lot of AVRs especially seem to output quite low voltage on their preouts for some reason and your suggestion of trying the balanced outputs would be a great idea if that was an issue driving an external amp that way.

post #3163 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

There's no benefit in XLR cables if the system doesn't exhibit noise due to cables picking up interference. Studios use XLR because their cable runs are very long and their environment is crammed full of electronics - if you're not suffering cable-born noise, then XLR has no benefits sound wise at all. The connector is mechanically better though.

I believe that technically you are correct, I do remember seeing quite a few references along those lines. However, from my point of view, a couple of observations.

First, the very fact that the connector is sooooo much better is nice, useful, practical.

Most importantly, but this relates to my personal experience, I did experience noise before, so, xlr gives me peace of mind. While I cannot entirely attribute the lack of noise to the xlr cables I use now, my system is now totally silent. And that is huge.

But in gereral I guess if one has not trouble with RCA connections, no reason to change.

Theresa's point may also be applicable to my case. My Cinema 5 amp would introduce a hum if connected via pre-outs to my old Denon 38xx (whatever that was).

No, I cannot make claims about improved sound quality though, not at all.
Edited by windwaves - 11/5/12 at 6:37pm
post #3164 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

There's no benefit in XLR cables if the system doesn't exhibit noise due to cables picking up interference. Studios use XLR because their cable runs are very long and their environment is crammed full of electronics - if you're not suffering cable-born noise, then XLR has no benefits sound wise at all. The connector is mechanically better though.

I believe that technically you are correct, I do remember seeing quite a few references along those lines. However, from my point of view, a couple of observations.

First, the very fact that the connector is sooooo much better is nice, useful, practical.

Most importantly, but this relates to my personal experience, I did experience noise before, so, xlr gives me peace of mind. While I cannot entirely attribute the lack of noise to the xlr cables I use now, my system is now totally silent. And that is huge.

But in gereral I guess if one has not trouble with RCA connections, no reason to change.

Theresa's point may also be applicable to my case. My Cinema 5 amp would introduce a hum if connected via pre-outs to my old Denon 38xx (whatever that was).

No, I cannot make claims about improved sound quality though, not at all.

I'm not disagreeing with the above. But having XLR connections on your pre/pro also makes connectivity easier when using pro gear audio equipment (ie. dbx DriveRack 4800, Behringer MIC2200). This type of equipment expects XLR connectivity. XLR is also preferred when using active speakers due to the long cable runs. That's why I said that it's a deal breaker for me if it lacks XLR outputs.
post #3165 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

There's no benefit in XLR cables if the system doesn't exhibit noise due to cables picking up interference. Studios use XLR because their cable runs are very long and their environment is crammed full of electronics - if you're not suffering cable-born noise, then XLR has no benefits sound wise at all. The connector is mechanically better though.

I believe that technically you are correct, I do remember seeing quite a few references along those lines. However, from my point of view, a couple of observations.

First, the very fact that the connector is sooooo much better is nice, useful, practical.

Most importantly, but this relates to my personal experience, I did experience noise before, so, xlr gives me peace of mind. While I cannot entirely attribute the lack of noise to the xlr cables I use now, my system is now totally silent. And that is huge.

But in gereral I guess if one has not trouble with RCA connections, no reason to change.

Theresa's point may also be applicable to my case. My Cinema 5 amp would introduce a hum if connected via pre-outs to my old Denon 38xx (whatever that was).

No, I cannot make claims about improved sound quality though, not at all.

 

Yes, the connector is mechanically better for sure. And if course, if one has very long cable runs, or cables that are picking up RFI etc from other equipment, XLR is the way to go. For everyone else, they don't make a jot of difference (to the sound quality). There seems to be a trend to attribute better SQ to XLR cables (not from you I hasten to add) and all I was really suggesting is that, noise considerations aside, it is not so.  If I ever changed to them it would be for the connector alone - that is a much nicer design.

post #3166 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

There's no benefit in XLR cables if the system doesn't exhibit noise due to cables picking up interference. Studios use XLR because their cable runs are very long and their environment is crammed full of electronics - if you're not suffering cable-born noise, then XLR has no benefits sound wise at all. The connector is mechanically better though.

I believe that technically you are correct, I do remember seeing quite a few references along those lines. However, from my point of view, a couple of observations.

First, the very fact that the connector is sooooo much better is nice, useful, practical.

Most importantly, but this relates to my personal experience, I did experience noise before, so, xlr gives me peace of mind. While I cannot entirely attribute the lack of noise to the xlr cables I use now, my system is now totally silent. And that is huge.

But in gereral I guess if one has not trouble with RCA connections, no reason to change.

Theresa's point may also be applicable to my case. My Cinema 5 amp would introduce a hum if connected via pre-outs to my old Denon 38xx (whatever that was).

No, I cannot make claims about improved sound quality though, not at all.

I'm not disagreeing with the above. But having XLR connections on your pre/pro also makes connectivity easier when using pro gear audio equipment (ie. dbx DriveRack 4800, Behringer MIC2200). This type of equipment expects XLR connectivity. XLR is also preferred when using active speakers due to the long cable runs. That's why I said that it's a deal breaker for me if it lacks XLR outputs.

Yes - there are benefits to XLR I agree - just not wrt to SQ (assuming noise isn't an issue). If I had very long cable runs, and the cables were unavoidably close to other electrical equipment, I would use the XLRs on my 5509 too, just to be on the safe side.  

post #3167 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansmitherson View Post

I was wondering if someone could help. I was intending to get the Integra DHC-80.3 pre pro and the Integra 70.1 AMP. But I intend to use 11 channels with DTS NEO X, I am going to purchase High and Wides speakers early next year. I see I would have to purchase another AMP to get this working?
If cost isn't a factor, will the following work, If I purchase the Integra DTR-70.4 (New receiver, sorry no existing thread) and the DTA70.1 AMP. Can I get this combination to work? I can get these from a dealer mate of mine at prices competitive to Onkyo. The country is also out of stock of the DHC-80.3 for quite sometime, I am in NZ.
I will in the mean time run my Front and Center speakers from the DTA-70.1 AMP and let the integrated amp in the DTR-70.4 run all the surrounds. I also intend to Bi AMP fronts, and connect at least a Zone 2.
Next year I will purchase the High and Wide speakers.
So will I run into any issues using the DTR-70.4 receiver and DTA-70.1 amp together? I take it the master volume will be controlled from the DTR?
Also will Audyssey XT32 work fine?

I thought the DHC80.3 was limited to 9.2?
post #3168 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansmitherson View Post

I was wondering if someone could help. I was intending to get the Integra DHC-80.3 pre pro and the Integra 70.1 AMP. But I intend to use 11 channels with DTS NEO X, I am going to purchase High and Wides speakers early next year. I see I would have to purchase another AMP to get this working?
If cost isn't a factor, will the following work, If I purchase the Integra DTR-70.4 (New receiver, sorry no existing thread) and the DTA70.1 AMP. Can I get this combination to work? I can get these from a dealer mate of mine at prices competitive to Onkyo. The country is also out of stock of the DHC-80.3 for quite sometime, I am in NZ.
I will in the mean time run my Front and Center speakers from the DTA-70.1 AMP and let the integrated amp in the DTR-70.4 run all the surrounds. I also intend to Bi AMP fronts, and connect at least a Zone 2.
Next year I will purchase the High and Wide speakers.
So will I run into any issues using the DTR-70.4 receiver and DTA-70.1 amp together? I take it the master volume will be controlled from the DTR?
Also will Audyssey XT32 work fine?

I thought the DHC80.3 was limited to 9.2?

You are correct. As Fitz commented earlier, it only has 9 channels of amplification - but you can use Heights and Wides at the same time so long as you don't want Surround Backs connected. It cannot do all 11 channels at the same time because the Wides derive their signal from the Surround Back outputs. 

 

The diagram from the manual for my 5509 (the same as the 80.3 in this respect) clearly shows that it can only output 9 channels of amplification at one time - there is no provision for connecting an additional two channel amp so it can be run in 11.2 mode.

 

 

1000

post #3169 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansmitherson View Post

I was wondering if someone could help. I was intending to get the Integra DHC-80.3 pre pro and the Integra 70.1 AMP. But I intend to use 11 channels with DTS NEO X, I am going to purchase High and Wides speakers early next year. I see I would have to purchase another AMP to get this working?
If cost isn't a factor, will the following work, If I purchase the Integra DTR-70.4 (New receiver, sorry no existing thread) and the DTA70.1 AMP. Can I get this combination to work? I can get these from a dealer mate of mine at prices competitive to Onkyo. The country is also out of stock of the DHC-80.3 for quite sometime, I am in NZ.
I will in the mean time run my Front and Center speakers from the DTA-70.1 AMP and let the integrated amp in the DTR-70.4 run all the surrounds. I also intend to Bi AMP fronts, and connect at least a Zone 2.
Next year I will purchase the High and Wide speakers.
So will I run into any issues using the DTR-70.4 receiver and DTA-70.1 amp together? I take it the master volume will be controlled from the DTR?
Also will Audyssey XT32 work fine?

The 70.1 amp is nine channels, so for 11.x, yes, you will need an additional 2 channels of amplification, since the 70.4 AVR has only 9 amp channels.

As has been discussed here frequently, forget the biamping. There is no internal crossover for biamping in any of the Integra or Onkyo products. Just for the subwoofers. So, it is not a correct implementation of biamping. Search the thread for more on this. It is so called passive biamping and a waste of amp channels.

I do not see any issues with the combination, but i do not know how much better it would be than just using the AVRs amps. Yes, the master volume control will control everything in either case. Personally, I avoid AVRs and Mch amps to keep the speaker leads short. Doing a 7 channel amp up front for mains, center, wides and height might not be too bad, but I do not like the thought of long speaker leads to to side and back surrounds, so I use 3 stereo amps plus a mono-block for the center. My left or right side and back surrounds are each handled by a stereo amp, one one each side. I would use Monoblocks all around, if I could afford it. Then again, long unbalanced interconnects are not often best, either, though short ones of a couple of meters or less are usually fine. That is where a prepro with balanced XLR capability seems optimal. AVRs generally do not have that.

Well I purchased them smile.gif just preparing the location for placement and hookup..
Heres a pic.. Thats my 8.8 sitting on top ready to be sold off.
qy6a2agu.jpg
post #3170 of 4252
Hey guys quick question, I picked up a iPhone 5 and realized that I can play music and videos threw it to my 80.3 . I'm guessing I can just run a USB cable from my phone to the USB plate on the front of integra. So if so what's the benefit if any to use a dock such as UP-A1 or maybe a apple dock if it will work. Thanks in advance !
post #3171 of 4252
^^Bump!! Anyone ?^^ smile.gif
post #3172 of 4252
Ok figured it out ! Yes it can and does a very good job at it for those who were wondering. I'm amazed at how clean and detailed it sounds !!!
post #3173 of 4252
did a search and saw this question asked but could not find the answer.

Why is DSD input from an Oppo 93 and now 103 limited to 44.1 KHz instead of 88.2KHz which is input if the Oppo decodes to PCM?

Just got an Oppo 103 and DSD is input at 44.1

Edit : just found this in a review article for the Integra 9.8. Seems it still applies to the DHC-80.3 -

"The 6dB difference in level between the Oppo's PCM and DSD outputs remains (Oppo and Integra are still pointing fingers at each other), but the volume control fixes that. Also, with PCM from SACD, the Integra displays the sample frequency as 88.2kHz, but with DSD the display reads "44.1kHz." Oppo explains this by quoting the HDMI 1.2 spec: "For Super Audio CD, the SF bits are typically set to 0, 1, 0, to indicate a Sample Frequency of 2.8224MSamples/s (ie, 64x44.1kHz)."

Nonetheless, I was a bit unnerved by all this. It may contribute to my preferring SACDs transcoded to PCM by the Oppo for processing and decoding in the Integra, rather than by having the Integra start with the original DSD. By comparison, DSD into the Integra seemed just a little "hot," with slightly emphasized extreme highs, a marginally shallower front soundstage depth, and less output from the surrounds. This may be due to differences in how the Integra and Oppo transcode DSD to PCM. According to Oppo, "when sending out a DSD signal, the receiver is doing all the audio decoding. Depending on the design of the receiver, the audio headroom can be lower than that of a PCM signal." Hmm. More finger pointing? Nonetheless, I made the comparison many times, each time compensating for the volume levels, and always preferred the PCM to the DSD rendition. "

It is from page 3 of an Integra 9.8 review By Kalman Rubinson • Posted: Feb 2, 2008 • Published: Jan 2, 2008

The components in the article were the Integra 9.8 and Oppo DV-980H and from almost 5 years ago. Some things never change I guess.

Well seems the 2012 versions of the components , DHC-80.3 and Oppo BDP-103 have the same issue re display of DSD rate. Have not measured volume level between the two but I do thing the Oppo PCM is slightly louder.
Edited by bbar - 11/10/12 at 4:33pm
post #3174 of 4252
I was going to ask which format for SACDs. I have the 103 with the DHC80.3 and would like to know which format would be better using HDMI2? I was under the impression that DSD was better but based on above sounds like PCM.
Edited by jima4a - 11/10/12 at 10:17pm
post #3175 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I was going to ask which format for SACDs. I have the 103 with the DHC80.3 and would like to know which format would be better using HDMI2? I was under the impression that DSD was better but based on above sounds like PCM.

The post above was really in reference to the fact that that new DHC-80.3 and Oppo BDP-93 or BDP-103 have the same issue as the 9.8 and Oppo 980H with respect to DSD.

Kals recommendation in this thread is to use DSD, though this recommendation may have been a general one and not to the newer Oppos. Here is Kal's post in this thread - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1360965/integra-dhc-80-3/1530#post_21763611

So, good point and agree, would be good to clarify if recommendation is to use DSD with the new Oppos even with the same sampling reporting issue. Will play more with the DSD versus PCM and see if there remains a volume discrepancy as without the SPL meter I felt the volumes were different as Kal found between the 9.8 and Oppo 980H

Generally I am of the view that bitstream, including DSD is better than decoding in player to PCM so as to eliminate any jitter caused by using PCM over HDMI.


Edit: have checked both PCM and DSD over HDMI 2 with SPL meter and there is no appreciable difference. So, only the reporting of sampling rate appears to be incorrect. Levels now seem same/similar.
Edited by bbar - 11/11/12 at 12:18am
post #3176 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbar View Post

The post above was really in reference to the fact that that new DHC-80.3 and Oppo BDP-93 or BDP-103 have the same issue as the 9.8 and Oppo 980H with respect to DSD.
Kals recommendation in this thread is to use DSD, though this recommendation may have been a general one and not to the newer Oppos. Here is Kal's post in this thread - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1360965/integra-dhc-80-3/1530#post_21763611
So, good point and agree, would be good to clarify if recommendation is to use DSD with the new Oppos even with the same sampling reporting issue. Will play more with the DSD versus PCM and see if there remains a volume discrepancy as without the SPL meter I felt the volumes were different as Kal found between the 9.8 and Oppo 980H
Generally I am of the view that bitstream, including DSD is better than decoding in player to PCM so as to eliminate any jitter caused by using PCM over HDMI.
Edit: have checked both PCM and DSD over HDMI 2 with SPL meter and there is no appreciable difference. So, only the reporting of sampling rate appears to be incorrect. Levels now seem same/similar.

Where do you see the sampling rate on the 80.3? I am listening to a SACD in DSD and haven't found that info yet.
post #3177 of 4252
Home menu then information.

Choice of audio or video information. Choose audio.

I use the oremote ipad app and it displays the info on the ipad.
post #3178 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbar View Post

Home menu then information.
Choice of audio or video information. Choose audio.
I use the oremote ipad app and it displays the info on the ipad.

Thanks, I will check it out. smile.gif
post #3179 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbar View Post

The post above was really in reference to the fact that that new DHC-80.3 and Oppo BDP-93 or BDP-103 have the same issue as the 9.8 and Oppo 980H with respect to DSD.
Kals recommendation in this thread is to use DSD, though this recommendation may have been a general one and not to the newer Oppos. Here is Kal's post in this thread - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1360965/integra-dhc-80-3/1530#post_21763611
So, good point and agree, would be good to clarify if recommendation is to use DSD with the new Oppos even with the same sampling reporting issue. Will play more with the DSD versus PCM and see if there remains a volume discrepancy as without the SPL meter I felt the volumes were different as Kal found between the 9.8 and Oppo 980H
Generally I am of the view that bitstream, including DSD is better than decoding in player to PCM so as to eliminate any jitter caused by using PCM over HDMI.
Edit: have checked both PCM and DSD over HDMI 2 with SPL meter and there is no appreciable difference. So, only the reporting of sampling rate appears to be incorrect. Levels now seem same/similar.

I use an Oppo 93, with no immediate plans for a 103. Aside from the volume level difference between bitstreamed DSD and PCM from the Oppo, which does not bother me, I have much preferred the sound with bitstreamed DSD with the Integra converting to PCM and Audyssey on with the classical SACDs I listen to. Perhaps the 103 is better than the 93 or even better on the PCM conversion than the Integra. I will be interested in Kal's review, which should appear in the near future. The display discrepancy also does not bother me, since I know that I am getting full DSD resolution.

I am in general agreement with your view that bitstreaming is preferable for the reason you cited. I think I have also been able to hear a positive difference that way, so far. Many Denon owners report the same thing, at least with the Oppo 83/93. But, other factors could influence performance
post #3180 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbar View Post

Home menu then information.
Choice of audio or video information. Choose audio.
I use the oremote ipad app and it displays the info on the ipad.

I got the Oremote app for my IPhone, thanks for that lead! It shows 44.1 kHz for SACD on DSD but it sounds better than a CD, so is this just a display issue? I am using the Oppo 103 via HDMI2 to the DHC 80.3, Audyssey off.
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