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Integra DHC-80.3 - Page 107

post #3181 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbar View Post

Home menu then information.
Choice of audio or video information. Choose audio.
I use the oremote ipad app and it displays the info on the ipad.

I got the Oremote app for my IPhone, thanks for that lead! It shows 44.1 kHz for SACD on DSD but it sounds better than a CD, so is this just a display issue? I am using the Oppo 103 via HDMI2 to the DHC 80.3, Audyssey off.

Exactly what SACD and CD tracks are you comparing to one another?
There might be differences in the recordings or in your listening environment besides the audio format.

I'm not claiming that the SACD tracks you're listening to aren't better than the corresponding CD audio, but it would be interesting to understand why you're hearing those differences.

Often more effort is expended when a mix is known to be destined for one of the high-definition formats. Also, older CD production systems did not have the benefit of the high-quality digital processing which is the norm now. Still, too often modern CD audio tracks have been damaged by compression in amplitude. It's too bad that there isn't a standard reference for music recording like there is for movie sound tracks.

In addition, don't forget that when there are slight differences in volume level, the one which is ever-so-slightly louder sounds better. Since the paths through the electronics are different for PCM and DSD, it's hard to ensure the resulting sound levels are identical.

And, of course, one should try to avoid "expectation bias". Often a system which is known to be higher quality sounds better, whether or not there's actually any measurable difference.
post #3182 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Exactly what SACD and CD tracks are you comparing to one another?
There might be differences in the recordings or in your listening environment besides the audio format.
I'm not claiming that the SACD tracks you're listening to aren't better than the corresponding CD audio, but it would be interesting to understand why you're hearing those differences.
Often more effort is expended when a mix is known to be destined for one of the high-definition formats. Also, older CD production systems did not have the benefit of the high-quality digital processing which is the norm now. Still, too often modern CD audio tracks have been damaged by compression in amplitude. It's too bad that there isn't a standard reference for music recording like there is for movie sound tracks.
In addition, don't forget that when there are slight differences in volume level, the one which is ever-so-slightly louder sounds better. Since the paths through the electronics are different for PCM and DSD, it's hard to ensure the resulting sound levels are identical.
And, of course, one should try to avoid "expectation bias". Often a system which is known to be higher quality sounds better, whether or not there's actually any measurable difference.

The disk is RS500, a SACD demo disk, that has a CD version also on same disk. When I bought my Denon BDP2010 I was told it did SACD but not DVD-A. When I later played this disk it sounded just like CD quality so I chased it further and found the 2010 did not read SACD. I had Expectation Bias but heard through it.
post #3183 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Suggest looking at the Oppo 103 as it does SACD and DVD-A which I believe the DBS does not. It is cheaper also. I am either going to get the 103 or a 95 once the 105 comes out.

No SACD. But if you stay with the Integra Blue-Ray, you may have better performance since everything is matched. But OPPO is also an excellent brand and I'm sure you won't have any issues with the timings.

Unless you have a vast collection of SACD's, I'd opt for the DBS. Happy Holidays! wink.gif
post #3184 of 4252
Awaiying the arrival of my 80.3 and I have some questions about the setup/functions.

First (of many) --- Is there a lip synch adjustment available in source setup??
The only reference to lip synch I could find had to do with a tv enabled with ARC, which I'm pretty sure mine is not. It would be nice to be able to do a lip synch delay for each source manually in the setup menu.

2-- Once Audessey has been run, does it apply to all sources (including the 2-ch balanced) and can it be turned on and off for comparison?? Will it do bass management for analog sources and send bass to the subs??
My guess is yes, but I just want to make sure.

3-- I use 2 subs. Does audessey match the subs to each other like an SVS AS-EQ1 ??

More questions to follow, I'm sure, but I appreciate all the help I can get.

Thanks,
Tom
post #3185 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

Awaiying the arrival of my 80.3 and I have some questions about the setup/functions.
First (of many) --- Is there a lip synch adjustment available in source setup??
The only reference to lip synch I could find had to do with a tv enabled with ARC, which I'm pretty sure mine is not. It would be nice to be able to do a lip synch delay for each source manually in the setup menu.
2-- Once Audessey has been run, does it apply to all sources (including the 2-ch balanced) and can it be turned on and off for comparison?? Will it do bass management for analog sources and send bass to the subs??
My guess is yes, but I just want to make sure.
3-- I use 2 subs. Does audessey match the subs to each other like an SVS AS-EQ1 ??
More questions to follow, I'm sure, but I appreciate all the help I can get.
Thanks,
Tom

I haven't chased the lip sync options but I would expect it would.

You can turn Audyssey on/off under menu item 4, then Audyssey. I turn it off for music, on for TV and Movies. I am not sure if it applies to Analog ins but only Direct kills it when feeding HDMI, Stereo and above makes it active.

I only have one sub on my main system but XT32 on the 80.3 handles EQ of 2 subs, only the Onkyo 818 with XT32 does not that I am aware of.
post #3186 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

Awaiying the arrival of my 80.3 and I have some questions about the setup/functions.
First (of many) --- Is there a lip synch adjustment available in source setup??
The only reference to lip synch I could find had to do with a tv enabled with ARC, which I'm pretty sure mine is not. It would be nice to be able to do a lip synch delay for each source manually in the setup menu.
2-- Once Audessey has been run, does it apply to all sources (including the 2-ch balanced) and can it be turned on and off for comparison?? Will it do bass management for analog sources and send bass to the subs??
My guess is yes, but I just want to make sure.
3-- I use 2 subs. Does audessey match the subs to each other like an SVS AS-EQ1 ??
More questions to follow, I'm sure, but I appreciate all the help I can get.
Thanks,
Tom

I haven't chased the lip sync options but I would expect it would.

You can turn Audyssey on/off under menu item 4, then Audyssey. I turn it off for music, on for TV and Movies. I am not sure if it applies to Analog ins but only Direct kills it when feeding HDMI, Stereo and above makes it active.

I only have one sub on my main system but XT32 on the 80.3 handles EQ of 2 subs, only the Onkyo 818 with XT32 does not that I am aware of.

 

Yes, there is source dependent lip-synching. Can't remember the menu - probably under Source.

 

You can also turn Audyssey on and off 'on the fly' with the Home button on the remote.

 

With the 80.3 Audyssey does indeed match dual subs in the same way the SVS AS-EQ1 does.

post #3187 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, there is source dependent lip-synching. Can't remember the menu - probably under Source.

You can also turn Audyssey on and off 'on the fly' with the Home button on the remote.

With the 80.3 Audyssey does indeed match dual subs in the same way the SVS AS-EQ1 does.

Thanks guys

Tom
post #3188 of 4252
Got my 80.3. Ran the full Audyssey and went thru set-up. Pretty straight forward. Coming from an Anthem and having run ARC many times, the Audyssey was easy--would like to see the before/after graphs, but it definitly made the same level of improvement that ARC did to my room acoustics. Plus it did distance measurements that seem acurate--I may get my tape measure out to double check. Is the distance function accurate for you guys??

The only problem I have is the front panel display brightness. I would like to be able to set it to 'off'. The only setting I can find is on the remote via the 'dimmer' button, but even at the dimmest setting it is pretty bright in a darkened room when watching a movie.
I have some plastic sheeting (DimLights I think is the brand) that I can cover the display with, but would rather have a way to set the display to 'off' and have it 'wake up' for a few seconds if I change the settings/volume, and then turn off after a few seconds. Is this possible?? Am I missing a setting??

Happy Thanksgiving,
Tom
post #3189 of 4252
Don't look for correct distances, because they ain't "distances" in reality, just converted time delay measurements. They should always be correct for your specific situation.
This is confusing for many, but that's what it is.
Edited by gurkey - 11/22/12 at 8:09am
post #3190 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

Got my 80.3. Ran the full Audyssey and went thru set-up. Pretty straight forward. Coming from an Anthem and having run ARC many times, the Audyssey was easy--would like to see the before/after graphs, but it definitly made the same level of improvement that ARC did to my room acoustics. Plus it did distance measurements that seem acurate--I may get my tape measure out to double check. Is the distance function accurate for you guys??
The only problem I have is the front panel display brightness. I would like to be able to set it to 'off'. The only setting I can find is on the remote via the 'dimmer' button, but even at the dimmest setting it is pretty bright in a darkened room when watching a movie.
I have some plastic sheeting (DimLights I think is the brand) that I can cover the display with, but would rather have a way to set the display to 'off' and have it 'wake up' for a few seconds if I change the settings/volume, and then turn off after a few seconds. Is this possible?? Am I missing a setting??
Happy Thanksgiving,
Tom

Audyssey's distances are more accurate than a tape measure, especially for the sub channel, which may introduce delay beyond what a tape measure would tell you. However, some have found the sub distance in need of further tweaking to achieve better phase accuracy using Mark Seaton's technique with an independent measurement tool. I have not gone that route myself.
post #3191 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

Don't look for correct distances, because they ain't "distances" in reality, just converted time delay measurements. They should always be correct for your specific situation.
This is confusing for many, but that's what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Audyssey's distances are more accurate than a tape measure, especially for the sub channel, which may introduce delay beyond what a tape measure would tell you. However, some have found the sub distance in need of further tweaking to achieve better phase accuracy using Mark Seaton's technique with an independent measurement tool. I have not gone that route myself.

Thanks. Makes sense since my SVS AS-EQ1 used to set my sub distance differently than actual, but I think part of that was calculating for the time it took to send out a signal vs what would come straight out of the processor.
AS-EQ1 measured it at about 18.5 ft, Audyssey now says 11.x, where in reality they are 9.5 ft.

Any hidden setting to turn off the front panel display, or do I need to use the stick-on dimming cover??

Tom
post #3192 of 4252
Looking to get a DHC 80.3 to replace my 9.8. Problem is only dealer around where I bought my 9.8 went out of business. Are there any dealers anyone can recommend that would sell me a unit and ship it to me? Thanks
post #3193 of 4252
Would you guys go with a DTR 80.3 or a DTR 70.4 ?

I cant really make up my mind...
post #3194 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason30 View Post

Looking to get a DHC 80.3 to replace my 9.8. Problem is only dealer around where I bought my 9.8 went out of business. Are there any dealers anyone can recommend that would sell me a unit and ship it to me? Thanks

You might also want to take a look at the Marantz AV8801. It is now available as well and has a few nice features missing from the 80.3. I went from a 9.8 to an 80.3 and am very happy, but if this other product were out a year ago, it would have been a tough decision.

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVSeparates&SubCatId=0&ProductId=AV8801
post #3195 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

You might also want to take a look at the Marantz AV8801. It is now available as well and has a few nice features missing from the 80.3. I went from a 9.8 to an 80.3 and am very happy, but if this other product were out a year ago, it would have been a tough decision.
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVSeparates&SubCatId=0&ProductId=AV8801

Interesting, but also $1000 more for the Marantz
post #3196 of 4252
Don't forget to check to see that all speakers are set to small and make sure your Dynamic EQ is set to on. cool.gif
post #3197 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Audyssey's distances are more accurate than a tape measure, especially for the sub channel, which may introduce delay beyond what a tape measure would tell you. However, some have found the sub distance in need of further tweaking to achieve better phase accuracy using Mark Seaton's technique with an independent measurement tool. I have not gone that route myself.


Don't forget to check to see that all speakers are set to small and make sure your Dynamic EQ is set to on.
post #3198 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason30 View Post

Looking to get a DHC 80.3 to replace my 9.8. Problem is only dealer around where I bought my 9.8 went out of business. Are there any dealers anyone can recommend that would sell me a unit and ship it to me? Thanks


The only problem is that no dealer is allowed to ship any Integra products directly to the consumer. But they will be able to ship you the Onkyo version the the DHC-80.3 which the internals are pretty much identical except for the outer appearance and the 3 year warranty you get with the Integra product. Unless you can find a dealer that's within driving distance from you and order the Integra product and pick it up personally. Also, if you have relative or good friend somewhere in the states that is close to a dealer that carries the Integra model you want, you can call that dealer and pay for the unit but your friend or relative will have to pick it up personally and they will have to ship it to you. That will work as I have talked to many Integra dealers. It's stupid that they can't ship out the Integra line of products even though it's made by Onkyo. And I'm pretty sure the same goes for McIntosh and Krell as well.

Unless you check ebaY, I did see a new DHC-80.3, DBS-50.3 and a DTA-70.1 on sale. The person stated that they were an installer and the people who wanted the stuff backed-out so this seller reduced the price of the stuff. He claimed it to be in mint condition and was including the original sales receipt.

That's all I can tell you. I wish you the best in your A/V ventures. Be safe! wink.gif
post #3199 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigarjohn47 View Post

Don't forget to check to see that all speakers are set to small and make sure your Dynamic EQ is set to on.

If you want to try to tweak your Sub's phase, you will need to unplug all your speakers from your receiver/pre-amp except one of the speakers that is the closest to your sub.

1) You will need a test CD/DVD that will produce Pink Noise or White Noise which is the same thing. A hissing sound coming from the speakers.

2) Reverse the polarity on the speaker that's closest to the sub. Mainly one of the Front or Center Channel Speakers and put that speaker out of phase by connecting the positive to the negative. This won't hurt your speakers as long as you don't crank your volume to the highest settings.

3) You will need another person helping you out. Have that person near the Sub controlling the phase knob.

4) Set your main systems volume at a comfortable level.

5) Sit down where you would normally sit.

6) Listen carefully at the Pink Noise coming from the Sub and the speaker closest to it. It should be a balanced sound.

7) Next have the other person slowly turn the phase knob until you hear that the sub is a little louder than the speaker above it. Tell them to stop turning and your sub should be at the proper phase for your system and room accoustics.

8) Don't forget to reverse the polarity of the speaker above the Sub then reconnect all your other speakers to the receiver/pre-amp. Your good to go.

I hope this helps you out. Though there are some subs that have extra tweak buttons on them like Elf Trim. That also acts as a phase control but at a much deeper level. If you have that option on your sub, check your manual for the proper Elf Trim settings.

Be safe! wink.gif
post #3200 of 4252
Its much simpler to use a measurement mic, software, and some test tones.
post #3201 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Its much simpler to use a measurement mic, software, and some test tones.

 

Yep. Or just put on some bass-heavy content and get someone to turn the sub phase knob until the bass is as loud as it will go. When it reaches maximum SPL, the sub is in phase with the speakers. But yeah, measuring is the best way.

post #3202 of 4252
A lot less expensive your way too.
post #3203 of 4252
Its much simpler to use a measurement mic, software, and some test tones.


Simpler but not cost effective. And once it's set, you won't have to worry about it anymore. So why spend extra money for nothing unless your going to be calibrating it more than once.

And remember, the best test equipment in the world is your Ears and Brain. They will hear better than any mic or software. Math calculations are just that. Math calculations! Your going to tell me that a computer knows how I feel and what part of the music I am listening too to determine the best settings?

Be safe with no regrets. smile.gif
post #3204 of 4252
Actually, its opposite to what you state. The ears and brain are notoriously inaccurate when remembering and comparing sound especially phase. But I don't want to get into the objectivist vs. subjectivist argument right now so just do it the way you feel most comfortable.
I am a speaker builder so I use the measuring gear for more than just subwoofer phase. Of course you would design by ear.
Edited by Theresa - 11/26/12 at 1:32am
post #3205 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigarjohn47 View Post

And remember, the best test equipment in the world is your Ears and Brain. They will hear better than any mic or software. Math calculations are just that. Math calculations! Your going to tell me that a computer knows how I feel and what part of the music I am listening too to determine the best settings?

Be safe with no regrets. smile.gif

 

Not so. Ears/brain are absolutely wonderful listening instruments, but they are terrible measuring instruments. In fact, they have NO measuring capability at all. I doubt if you can use your ears alone and be able to identify, for example, a 5dB suckout between 1kHz-2kHz, but it will have an audible impact on the sound. However, with a simple calibrated mic and some software you can measure the response in the room and easily see where the problem lies - and then fix it and verify it is fixed. Then, when you do listen, your ears/brain will thank you for it!

 

I have, for example, just dealt with a slight lack of 'chest slam' in my bass. I could hear the problem but would not have known what to address without my OmniMic and software. This showed that I needed to make small adjustments to phase issues and also give a 3dB boost to the frequencies between 55Hz and 95Hz. No way could I, or probably anyone in the world, identify and rectify those issues simply by using ears/brain. 

post #3206 of 4252
Thank you for clarifying that, Keith. Yes the ears and brain are wonderful for listening and bring me much joy. Speaking of something that I couldn't easily hear was a phase problem where there was a narrow but not very deep dip in response at the crossover point between my midwoofer and the tweeter. Omnimic allowed me to observe how changing the phase/polarity of the tweeter eliminated the dip. I could not readily hear this but there was a change for the better from the change.
post #3207 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Thank you for clarifying that, Keith. Yes the ears and brain are wonderful for listening and bring me much joy. Speaking of something that I couldn't easily hear was a phase problem where there was a narrow but not very deep dip in response at the crossover point between my midwoofer and the tweeter. Omnimic allowed me to observe how changing the phase/polarity of the tweeter eliminated the dip. I could not readily hear this but there was a change for the better from the change.

 

Yes, this is the beauty of objective measurements. They make it so easy to see what is going on and then able to be fixed. And because it's easier, it means more time for listening and enjoying!

 

Even if someone is a trained listener, there are - as you point out - some things that are all but impossible to identify. You can perhaps hear that something 'is not quite right' but are not sure what the 'something' is. It could take for ever (if even possible) to discover and eliminate the cause simply by listening. Measuring speeds up the entire process, leaving a better result and more time for listening/enjoying. People sometimes seem to think we are advocating measuring instead of listening, but of course that simply isn’t so. 

post #3208 of 4252
A little off-topic but this seems to be the main Integra thread... How does one perform a hard-reset on the xx.4 models? From earlier posts in this thread I see that the xx.3 models use the VCR/DVD input button as part of the hard-reset but the xx.4 models no longer have that. I have a new 20.4 and it's forcing me to go though Audyssey setup with no way to cancel. Once finished, it tells me to unplug the setup mic but it's not detecting when I do this; it just hangs on the unplug-mic screen. I'm hoping a hard-reset will fix the issue...

EDIT: D'oh, actually got past my frustration and read the manual eek.gif! It's the CBL/SAT button...

Thanks,
--Chuck
Edited by cvinfig - 11/27/12 at 10:33am
post #3209 of 4252

So...Did it solve your problem?

post #3210 of 4252
Last night, before I actually looked through the manual, I did try that (along with every other input button) to no avail, but it's possible that I didn't hold them down long enough. I'll try again this evening and I'll also try to load the latest firmware via USB.
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